Mitt Romney on Medical Marijuana

[Bluenote]

Okay I get that.

What I think you're not realizing is that I still believe the government works to some extent--and that I'm concerned with what the government will do in the interim between now and its utter destruction.

I KNOW, not guess, not wonder, that the right will legislate in ways that I don't agree with--and that the left does essentially the opposite of that (so far as it concerns me).

I want to see gays with the right to marry. Tell me, exactly, how bashing republicans doesn't sit well with that?

I want to see marijuana legalized. Tell me how disagreeing with the right doesn't line up with this.

That's the disconnect.

I'm saying the shitty things they do and believe right now, today--I firmly disagree with and believe something can be done to stand up against it.

I'm not going to store beans and ammunition about it. I'm going to try to change it.

You are correct , that IS the disconnect. Because quite frankly there are one HELL of a lot LARGER problems facing this country than EITHER of the above two issues at this juncture.

AGAIN................keep the populace focused on the miniscule while they rape your freedoms and wallet.

And that last line is rather unbecoming of ya , don't you think? Thought we were past that crap.

And kindly stop insinuating that others ( including me) are ' doing nothing' , you have no idea what I do or don't do. Never assume. Not ever.

And quite obviously you've failed to explore quite a lot of folks who *are* doing " something"............

I noted with some amusement the mention of Foxnews , so what , I watch all the other news sources too , what's your point? I mean is it like uuuhhh " Magic"? watch Foxnews and lose all cognitive capability? I guess I'm just too dumb too unnerstan' , just being an aw shucks unedumacated peckerwood halfbreed living in the boonies with too many dogs and guns.........waddafukwudIknow..........

 

[Bluenote]

Per " republicans driving the car"...........ALL the available " drivers" are blind , deaf and dumb assholes who were bought and paid for long ago.

 

[squiggly]

I believe the reason we can't move forward on the larger issues is that the fights over these smaller things (and I do agree they are smaller) will never be won.

I just blame that on the right, because they are in the wrong.

If we could jump past abortion, gay marriage, etc, etc. then I think we could move forward on the rest of it.

If everyone instantly became a democrat and stopped being a christian somehow--I believe that's exactly what would happen.

I'm not saying I can prove it would, I'm saying that's my belief--and I hope that bring it full circle as to why I want to move forward this way.

I do agree with you--it's just that I disagree about the cause and how we should attempt to get out of it.

I, personally, think you've been fooled into believing that the right isn't to blame--much as you believe I've been duped into believing they are.

Sure I think there's probably other things to be dealt with outside of this--but as you say everyone is blind to it due to these heated issues.

It'd be different if I thought there were no right answer on these--but I do. I believe we're not coming to those right answers and putting it behind us because republicans need to assure themselves that their faith matters.

 

[Bluenote]

Get rid of the lobby system.

Term limits........


NO 501c3 status for churches/institutions.

Abolish the IRS.....flat tax system no loopholes for the ultrarich. No corporate breaks.

ALL laws/bills/statutes to be written in language that any layman with a high-school education can understand. NO exceptions.

Politicians to travel commercial carrier business class , just as most of their constituents.

Congressional session does not end until the budget is balanced.

FORCE the abusive multinationals to do what they should have long ago..example: Monsanto and Anniston Alabama...........example: where are the f***ing FUNDS you promised over the Gulf BP?

NO law/statute etc passed based solely on ANY religious principles.Period.


I could go on for hours.........

 

[Bluenote]

I, personally, think you've been fooled into believing that the right isn't to blame--much as you believe I've been duped into believing they are.

.

That's what you got out of all this? That's IT? Ya have GOT to be kidding me. Sorry Squig but that's just flat out and out freaking insulting.

I think that I've pretty much stated my stance on both parties........in fact here lets ask folks.


Did ANYONE here , whomsoever see me say a favorable word about or give endorsement to ANY " Republican" or said Party................a single example will suffice.

Continue to seek that simplistic , one size fits all , it's all Xs fault answer.

 

[squiggly]

Get rid of the lobby system.

1. Term limits........


2. NO 501c3 status for churches/institutions.

3. Abolish the IRS.....flat tax system no loopholes for the ultrarich. No corporate breaks.

4. ALL laws/bills/statutes to be written in language that any layman with a high-school education can understand. NO exceptions.

5. Politicians to travel commercial carrier business class , just as most of their constituents.

6. Congressional session does not end until the budget is balanced.

7. FORCE the abusive multinationals to do what they should have long ago..example: Monsanto and Anniston Alabama...........example: where are the f***ing FUNDS you promised over the Gulf BP?

8. NO law/statute etc passed based solely on ANY religious principles.Period.


I could go on for hours.........

I've numbered these to reply to them.

1. I've heard this brought up by multiple democrats--and I hear this bell being rung loudly by anyone who votes democratically. I've seen this argued against by republicans (and the logic was very poor--basically seemed like how a person reacts when you catch them in a lie).

2. Agreed, obviously. Let's guess which side would be for/against this one shall we?

3. I don't know about abolishing the IRS--perhaps streamlining it. I disagree with a flat tax. I think people who become rich here often forget that they wouldn't have been able to become so rich were they born in calcutta. I think that's the disconnect here is that rich people want to keep what they've "earned" without acknowledging the part America has played in affording them the opportunity to earn it. That is to say I believe you should pay more, the richer you are.

4. A version of this bill was passed, under democrats and Obama. Any forms and things of that nature which are for citizens are being "translated" from legalese to plain English. Obama has made it very clear that it is the wish of his intention to extend this to all laws and all government materials--for the exacts reasons I'm sure you do. So that all Americans can understand the laws which govern them. What's the trick here? Republicans filibustered the bill applying this to laws about 18 times. (This was a singular bill with no fluff--no ideological reasons for the republicans to filibuster it, except that they don't want people to read the bullshit they've put into law)

5. Makes total sense--only exception being the president of course, and for good reason.

6. I think it shouldn't end ever. When the fuck do you and I get to take months off work at a time?

7. Agreeeeeeeeed. Again, republicans will never let it happen. Democrats do have interest groups here as well--but I think you'll find most of their shit is in the banking sector (and its still a smaller portion of this sector than republicans hold). Republicans are funded by big pharma, which is owned by big chemical, which owns big agro, big oil, big you name it. Dow chemical owns half the fucking world--this is actually something I know a ton about as one of these days I'll be working for one of these companies.

I've already got job offers from Monsanto.

8. Agreed. Again dude, I've gotta point you towards the right.

I don't see how this isn't all lining up for you. If you really want these things, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which party has a vested interest in keeping them from happening--and its flat out public record that the left has tried to get almost every single one of these things passed and have been stopped by the right. I mean you say you want these--but are you being realistic. You're saying that everyone is a part of the same endemic problem, and yet here are the democratic legislators putting the exact things into bills which you are asking for (and doing them one at a time, hoping that people like you will see what republicans really want)--and having them stepped on by republicans. They didn't try to pass these because they thought they could--they KNEW they wouldn't pass. The exercise is meant to show you that republicans vote AGAINST these things, and that dems vote FOR them. It's your own choice if you want to ignore public record.

You want me to wake up--and hell maybe I need to. However, you need to really look at some of these things you want and do the actual research to find out who's been trying to do it. You literally couldn't have made making my point any easier. Three of these initiatives were on ballots in the past 2 years, and they were ALL universally brought forward by democrats. Not bi-partisan. Democrats--and they were all subsequently filibustered by republicans.

Go ahead, look into it for yourself. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Dirty White Boy]

Yea fuck obumtard! Now gas prices are going down, when i broke my leg i had options on how to pay for it without going broke, i got 2/3 of my school payed for, I got assistance starting my small business through a program obumtard started. My rent went down, food prices have dropped, and I could walk out my door today and come home with a job tonight. Boy shit is sooooo fucking bad. Like life was so much better under bush, the first and second time. Then clinton and fucking obumtard had to mess up all the good stuff up. <<<<sarcasm<<<<Well cant write anymore gotta hit the books and get brainwashed a little more tomorrow i have a how brainwashed am I test. So I can make "imaginary" money I can spend in this failing capitalistic shit storm we call a country....Or maybe ill just go to ikea and buy a new lamp then go wash my car after i get a margarita and swing by the growstore before i go home and smoke a bowl while i sit in my awesome air conditioned house watching tv and playing playstation then i can hop on my bike and ride down my nice paved roads to the nice park down the street then maybe ill go get a beer at the bar up the street cause life in America is SO FUCKING SHITTY!!!!!!!!!

 

[squiggly]

Did ANYONE here , whomsoever see me say a favorable word about or give endorsement to ANY " Republican" or said Party................a single example will suffice.

You missed my meaning. I didn't say you support them.

However I have stated, all over this board and in every thread where you and I have conversed, that I believe not standing united against the right is as good as standing with it.

I think that by being convinced it's not mostly their fault--that you are playing into their hands. Take from that what you will, but I don't mean an insult. I really do understand where you're coming from dude, I just disagree. I do not agree.

I can't clarify that anymore. It's not that I don't get you. I think you are wrong, sir. Respectfully, at that, but I still think it.

 

[Bluenote]

Yea fuck obumtard! !!

So ya come into a relatively serious conversation with that yapping cur act? Spare me , 'cause you Son t'ain't a got two brain cells to rub t'gther , 'eh Tite fille'?

Squig..........you're still saying " De Right , De Right" like Tattoo announcing the plane. How many liberal/democrat type special interests do you want me to put up as examples?

Siighhhhh , now that the raving loons have arrived I'll just state A G A I N that it's not either party , either side etc.

It's the ENTIRE f***ing collection of abusive bureaucrats and piratical self and special interest and corporate serving assholes..

The SYSTEM is broken , and it's the damn fault of BOTH sides.

 

[Bluenote]

it.

I think that by being convinced it's not mostly their fault.

For fucks sake I think I laid enough blame at their freaking door.

Do I need to post the Neal Fox video " Fuck The Fed" again to make my point?

Or hows about this , th solution to the ills inside the Beltway consists of your choice of politicians or lobbyists , a lamp-post and a rope.

Some assembly required.

 

[squiggly]

I'm not saying the left is much better. I'm saying they are better on these specific issues you bring up FAR AND AWAY--and these issues are the ones (along with gay marriage and MJ) which are near and dear to me.

I think the left has a laundry list of its own problems. They just aren't the ones which are more important to me.

I've been screaming term limits since I was 18. Didn't make sense the way it is then, or now. I just happen to think democrats represent our best chance of getting these through--and to be honest I think they prove it on the regular.

The left proves they are behind all of these issues on the regular by voting yes for them, and setting up symbolic votes to point out that the right disagrees with these and will vote them down. The right also proves this is the case by doing just that. I think it's very clear that one side is at least trying and the other is fucking positive they've got it all figured out already and are super holier than thou about it.
It's very simple. I think that's an absolute barrier to talking about what really ails the country. I think we'd have our work cut out for us if we got rid of the GOP still--I am not saying this is the ultimate solution. What I'm saying is that we can do no work whatsoever until they are either gone--or at least reigned in heavily.

A message needs to be sent that we won't stand for it.

In the end the democrats probably need replaced too and I've admitted that (while pointing out that democrats kicked ass and took names when they first came around--we need another "democratic party" of this generation to do that again). I just believe that we won't ever move in this direction while we're still refusing to acknowledge as a country that that these ideological differences have no place in legislative discussion.

Republicans are about not only rallying a large section of the population around the idea that these are important--but they are also about codifying their exact beliefs for all to obey. It would be very different for me if this weren't already the case--hell, I'd sound like a conspiracy theorist maybe. However I'm not trying accusing them of doing this, I'm just pointing out where and when it's already been done. There's no need to make a case for it. It's like:

"What color is that?"

"Red."

"Yup."

That simple.

It's already the law.

You blame me for perpetuating this "small debate" [to you] like they've got us all programmed to do. I'm telling you what the source code of the program is, dude. It's religion. It ALWAYS HAS BEEN. Religion is the only true conspiracy which has ever borne real fruit akin to what most conspiracy theorists would have you believe is possible from "secret societies". Religion is the blue pill. It is stopping us from addressing reality.

Newsflash--they aren't secret. They're in every town on every corner and in most of our brains--and it's a bullshit lie meant to make you feel fuzzy and forget reality.

I'm telling you that the people in this country are more animals than they are individuals if you take them as a whole. They are like the mice in the mouse and cheese argument. If you don't take religion off the table first the mice will keep taking the fucking cheese dude.

You think that we can somehow just leave this shit on the table as a country and get anywhere? Then you're asleep. Not me.

As a species we need to come into our own and start to take reality for what it is. Not for what we would have it be. Doing that as a people is an absolute precondition for changing society in the way that you claim you want to. Believing that you can beat some drum of war against an invisible opponent and effect change is a far-stretch more naive than what I've proposed here. Furthermore, the "secret society" I'm talking about has been running the fucking world for almost a thousand years. What say you to that?

You're looking all over the place for some secretive closed-doors thing. It's not. There's a fucking steeple on it for fucks sake.

 

[Bluenote]

You're looking all over the place for some secretive closed-doors thing. It's not. There's a fucking steeple on it for fucks sake.

Uh HUH. sure thing. See I've given you the religious point , however as I stated you're still seeking to place blame singularly. That's shortsighted and unrealistic.

 

[squiggly]

NO.

I'm seeking to go about it in the following fashion:

First things first.


Second things second.


Third things third.

I believe that before we can do any of what you'd have us all do--we have to buck up and quit with all the fuzzy Jesus stuff. I think the last 20 years have all but proven that.

You just wanna say what the problem is and pretend that's a solution. It's not.

You have to do things to change things. One of the things I'd like to change is the fairy tale half our country believes that tells them nothing which happens here matters at all so long as they do what people who run the church think they should do.

I'm saying I'll bet you one million dollars (muahahahaha---lol) that you will never see any of you want happen so long as people are willy nilly legislating theocracy.

You might not even see it so long as theocracy exists.

Just ask yourself what is the common denominator in every world power for the last ~4,000 years.

 

[squiggly]

A little further along this line:

In reality this is something that won't change while I'm alive--or maybe while my kids are alive. What I'd like to do is take baby steps as a country to make baby steps towards making smarter people who are more likely to have the ability to band together and turn this shit over.

It's not going to be us, and that is reality--that is, to me, why these tiny things about the future matter. Thats why marijuana and gay marriage matter. Those things say something to people who grow up here about what America is. Allowing the history books to be rewritten, creationism as science, and the bible as legislation is never ever going to give us a generation who has what it needs to make a difference.

The republicans, and I should just say Christians, know this--they are playing a long game. They are pecking at things which will serve to further "enslave" generations which will be around long after both of ours are dead.

I say, by not voting Obama--and not voting frankly D D D D D D D D D---you are voting essentially for R R R R R R R R R and all of the above bullshit.

You say it's all a part of something bigger--I agree. I just know that the christians have been at this for centuries, they're at it now, and thinking you can save up some beans about it and tell people what it is rather than try to build a nation which has the resources to fight it represents a severe miscarriage of reality.

In reality this war will be won or lost over the next 500 years. It's not all going to upend itself the way you want it to. History has shown this.

Barring an invasion from China or Russia, we're stuck with this bullshit--and we need to take baby steps, not talk about how great it'd be to win a marathon.

Let's walk first.

You say you agree about the christians. Cool. I say to get anything done--we need more folks like you and I, and that's what you're missing.

 

[Bluenote]

I haven't missed a damned thing Squig. And in your screeds against religion mayhap you need to lend equal time to other religions , it's most assuredly NOT solely Christianity. Furthermore you seem quite willing to write off folks based SOLELY on the criteria of whther or not they are Christian , such an attitude is EXACTLY the one exhibited by the opposite side when they write off all who ARE NOT Christian. Look to the individual and their own merits or lack of same.

 

[squiggly]

It certainly isn't only Christianity--that is our big problem in this country. However the arguments I've made do apply across the board and that is why I referenced every world power for the last ~4000 years. These were very obviously not only christian inspired governments.

The problem is all of them. They call me an atheist, or an anti-theist. I call them anti-realists.

Lack of realism and respect for our limitations can be drawn back to every problem in this and all countries--if you ask me.


100% of everything used to be explained by magic invisible men/women in the sky.

Through our advancements in our understanding the list is now down to about 95% explained by magic invisible men in the sky and 5% explained by science.

The magic believers have fought tooth and nail against every percentage point gained by science.

Let's just be real for a second--we know which one represents reality the best.

"How does X work?"

"Oh that's explained by the law Y of science"

"Oh, cool. What about Z--how does that work?"

"Z? Oh Z is just the magic god thing--don't worry about that."

Its not going to get us where I believe we need to go. The big problem we're having now is that most of the rest of the world actually gets this while we're stuck bickering about it. We're a young country and this is a lesson we [very unfortunately] haven't learned yet.

It's ironic, being as we taught England one of it's biggest lessons as it went to this. Oh well, the professor becomes the student in this case.

 

[Bluenote]

Squig , lets square the religious discussion in just one thread. It's about to get interesting ( see other thread) but we're inevitably going to get to doctrine and it's applications along with differing theologies , no sense in cluttering up more than one thread with it.

And Squig , not to pull the age card , but learn to listen when old men say certain things. I stated categorically that I ** will NOT live in a theocracy** , now extrapolate from the rest of the available information just how far I am willing to go to prevent that. And rest assured that I am most certainly *not* alone.

And some of those folks *are* Christians , who just happen to believe in strict separation of Church and State and that *neither* should meddle extensively in citizens lives.

You *must* learn from the mistakes of the '60s..........*never* alienate potential allies. You will find the likeminded in the oddest places as you age.


Now , as I've previously stated. The problems are *not* with the basics of the majority of the religions , the problem is and always has been Man's implementations of them as a system of control.

This has of course fostered the growth of individual sects/denominations within the structure of any given religious system , which in turn has given rise to **institutional religion**.........geared entirely towards perpetuating itself for profit. Trickle up economics at work , a Ponzi scheme worthy of Wall Street.

All this of course being in hypocritical opposition to the original tenets of *any* of the pertinent " Books".................

So in the end............if they're ALL " Religions of Peace and Love"..............then what the fuck is all the fighting about 'eh...........

We'll bring this back to survivalism too , what with that NeoCalvinist prick Rawles touting his " American Christian Redoubt States".............might as well drag all the whacks outa the woodwork.

 

[squiggly]

Agreed.

I just believe republicans represent a systematic misuse of otherwise peacefully intended religions. Both in the propganidization and marriage of doctrine to politics of "their" religion (they don't care about it really--not the big kahunas), and in their misrepresentation of other religions like Islam.

When you say "some of them are Christians" I'd say to you that those are the only ones who are Christians. The bible is as much for separation of church and state as you and I are. I get it you're willing to go to lengths--but I believe going after the GOP is the best foot forward here. That's our main disconnect and I'm nearly positive its one which cannot be mended.

I think religions are delusional, but I'd defend to the death someone's right to practice them--that is not what's at issue here. It's the systematic indoctrination of America to the old testament--most of what these dudes are pushing and preaching doesn't even come from Christ--he never said a word about homosexuality.

On the financial end of things, having picked up an economics minor and marketing minor, and being super interested into that end of things--I also don't believe republican policy meets with reality. Neither does the left at all--but again it's closer, and I suggest baby steps are the only realistic mode to fix this.

We need the checks and balances to both sides--but one of the sides has gone totally out of whack. It's not doing it's job. To me that side is the GOP and its about more than just the religious jargon--though I think if you go back before religion was a part of the argument, you had a two party system that worked a helluva lot better.

 

[SmokeS]

Politics created government parties to "protect" the People. The People created the underground to fight for freedom. Honesty and Integrity reign supreme above bullshit lies.

 

[kolah]

Mitt's ol' lady is bangable.