MOISTURE CONTENT IN COCO. VWC AND CROP STEERING

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decept1

decept1

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in my opinion without graphs, data and constant information from your media its really hard....your a boss for doing it with your pulse meter...my favorite meter would be the growlink (cropsteering.com, they also come with an irrigation controller and programming to almost do it for you) because you get graphs and data....unless your legal commercial you can get aroya with graphs.
 
Redbarn_Kyle

Redbarn_Kyle

4
3
I'm a bit late on this convo however I love talking shop about crop steering!
We currently use aroya sensors along with the hydro x pro controller for environmental and irrigation controls. I used the blue lab pulse for a while and while the WC readings aren't terrible, the EC portion of the sensor is measuring bulk media EC, not pore water EC, which is a more effective metric for measuring nutrient availability as far as I understand it.
I'm always playing with WC. The first week of bloom I keep it real high, 60% with 20 ish % dry downs. Then once the stretch begins I go lower. 40% with bigger dry downs. Once flowers have set, I'm bringing that WC up and EC down and giving those girls a totally stress free environment so they can bulk their little hearts out. Then for the week before flush, EC stays down and WC goes way down. 40% with huge dry downs, as much as I can get away with all the way through to harvest. These are ball-park numbers that definitely are strain dependent. Hope that helps a bit.
 
Treesapair

Treesapair

22
3
My head is officially swimming. Not to mention a tad bit of anxiety lol! I don't measure WC, I look at runoff EC in coco. Is it the graphs created by these WC measuring devices that makes an illustration that would be easier for (my brain) to process? Maybe giving me a sense of the difference between crop steering and just growing a straight up growing w out hiccups hitting your mark. I suppose the idea is to hit the mark every time maybe striving to be able to "steer" or make your garden do what you want at the opportune moments? I'm thinking of what crop steering actually means. I'm not the sharpest not the dullest but fuck if I don't think too much to the point I may border on nonsense. 😁
 
Treesapair

Treesapair

22
3
I'm familiar w the basic operation of troll master but do not use any smart automation on my personal grow.
 
Treesapair

Treesapair

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3
I'm posting from a friend's account because my phone is at the bottom of my reservoir 😖 it's just Dosifry here. Stoned and up past his bedtime and shouldn't be posting just reading lol!
 
Scar818

Scar818

173
63
Oh yeh im definitely joining this discussion as i also grow in coco, i have about 12 plants under each 1700e led gavita light. If i had to guess my weak point in growing it would be watering as i am fairly new to this business. I grow in 3 gal fabric pots. I do let them dry to some degree in flower however i also dont water too much during late flower 1-2 weeks before harvest and this is because they drink more slowly during that time so i would love to know if i should just keep them drenched or not. I dont check the moisture tbh but i do keep attention on humidity and temperature.
 
Treesapair

Treesapair

22
3
Do you keep tabs on runoff EC?
Oh yeh im definitely joining this discussion as i also grow in coco, i have about 12 plants under each 1700e led gavita light. If i had to guess my weak point in growing it would be watering as i am fairly new to this business. I grow in 3 gal fabric pots. I do let them dry to some degree in flower however i also dont water too much during late flower 1-2 weeks before harvest and this is because they drink more slowly during that time so i would love to know if i should just keep them drenched or not. I dont check the moisture tbh but i do keep attention on humidity and temperature.
 
Treesapair

Treesapair

22
3
The thing is i go by ppm and yes once or twice a week ill measure it.has anyone actually tried the feeding chart the new one by flora?
Dunno, I'm using jacks 3-2-1 at the moment. Normally for me it's not a problem keeping the ppms in check. I'ts just that in the past I'm using WAY more water than I needed because my timers only did one min increments no less. I just ordered a few of the nearpow (I think they called) timers which you can dial in to watering by the second. So now I can give approximately 125 ml per 1 gal pot and make sure I'm getting enough but not too much run off. This will b a huge improvement for me personally. Far as nutes in my experience one is generally as good as another as long as the essentials are present. Last run I used flora duo and had spectacular results. Where I work occasionally they r running the new flora series schedules. From what I've learned from this forum it's a wonder they ever had a different schedule. The early ones I think we're more or less geared with marketing product in mind as far as what one would think would logically make sense. Pushing the bloom boosters, cutting the veg juice almost out of the flowering schedule. The new schedule I absolutely wouldn't hesitate to switch to running that instead of the previous. Sry if I'm rambling bro I really am lol!!
 
Scar818

Scar818

173
63
Nono I actually am tempted to try it in a few months im going to be taking a break after this batch. But i hand water so i wanna be precise i think the amount of watering is my weak link
 
Treesapair

Treesapair

22
3
Nono I actually am tempted to try it in a few months im going to be taking a break after this batch. But i hand water so i wanna be precise i think the amount of watering is my weak link
Hand watering I coco definitely takes dedication! An automatic watering set up can be pretty simple to do even on a small scale. Doesn't hafta break the bank either.
 
Redbarn_Kyle

Redbarn_Kyle

4
3
Sorry for the late response, I'll shed a bit of light onto the target ranges for water content depending on the phase of flower.
If you want clarification on any of these just let me know. I won't go into EC readings because you're not measuring pore water EC, which is what I use to steer our crops. I would hate for you to scorch your plants trying to get your bulk media EC up to 8! I'll leave environmental cues out of this as well, just know your VPD needs to stay between .8 and 1.4, do not let it go below .4 at night as that is dew point and you'll be at risk for mold.
In early flower, first week or so you want to keep your wc high, peak saturation around 65% not allowing your substrate to dry back below 45%, but ideally keep that water content around 55-60% all day by irrigating frequent, but small shots. This is to help ease your plants into flower gently.
during your stretch, or "phase 2" of bloom we go generative. You want to create a water scarcity stress response in your plants to force them to focus on generative growth (flowers) as early as possible. This is done by hitting your peak saturation of 55-65% early in the day, around 2 hours after lights on, then giving them a 22-23 hour dry-back before your next irrigation and bump up your EC a bit to increase osmotic pressure and really stress those girls out. This will mitigate stretch, increase bud sites and like I said earlier, your flowers will set earlier, allowing more time for the next phase, which is our bulking phase.
During this phase, which starts the day your plants are done stretching, is where we remove all stressors from the crop and allow them to focus all of their resources on those flowers we just set in. This is done by reverting your irrigation strategy back to phase one. We'll lower our EC and irrigate frequently to hit peak saturation about 3 hours after lights on and maintain that throughout the day.
Phase four is your flush. Flush however you normally do but don't ever flush with straight R.O water, always use a low EC of cal-mag and cut your nitrates in half or more.
If you nail phase 2 and phase 3 you're going to see big boy yields like you've never seen before!
Assuming you have the right genetics, which is a whole different conversation.
Hope that helps!
If you care to peep the insta for the grow I manage to see I'm not full of it, it's here: redbarn_gardens
 
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Treesapair

Treesapair

22
3
Sorry for the late response, I'll shed a bit of light onto the target ranges for water content depending on the phase of flower.
If you want clarification on any of these just let me know. I won't go into EC readings because you're not measuring pore water EC, which is what I use to steer our crops. I would hate for you to scorch your plants trying to get your bulk media EC up to 8! I'll leave environmental cues out of this as well, just know your VPD needs to stay between .8 and 1.4, do not let it go below .4 at night as that is dew point and you'll be at risk for mold.
In early flower, first week or so you want to keep your wc high, peak saturation around 65% not allowing your substrate to dry back below 45%, but ideally keep that water content around 55-60% all day by irrigating frequent, but small shots. This is to help ease your plants into flower gently.
during your stretch, or "phase 2" of bloom we go generative. You want to create a water scarcity stress response in your plants to force them to focus on generative growth (flowers) as early as possible. This is done by hitting your peak saturation of 55-65% early in the day, around 2 hours after lights on, then giving them a 22-23 hour dry-back before your next irrigation and bump up your EC a bit to increase osmotic pressure and really stress those girls out. This will mitigate stretch, increase bud sites and like I said earlier, your flowers will set earlier, allowing more time for the next phase, which is our bulking phase.
During this phase, which starts the day your plants are done stretching, is where we remove all stressors from the crop and allow them to focus all of their resources on those flowers we just set in. This is done by reverting your irrigation strategy back to phase one. We'll lower our EC and irrigate frequently to hit peak saturation about 3 hours after lights on and maintain that throughout the day.
Phase four is your flush. Flush however you normally do but don't ever flush with straight R.O water, always use a low EC of cal-mag and cut your nitrates in half or more.
If you nail phase 2 and phase 3 you're going to see big boy yields like you've never seen before!
Assuming you have the right genetics, which is a whole different conversation.
Hope that helps!
If you care to peep the insta for the grow I manage to see I'm not full of it, it's here: redbarn_gardens
I can't wait to read this closer when my wife's not yelling at me to hurry up! This is what I been looking for ty!!
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
Patiently waiting for some photos in this thread. Also a bit curious why 60% WC and 40% etc... as long as the plants have access to water there is no stress... as long as the media has adequate o2 I can't see why there would be a difference between say 40% and 90%... there is no stress induced in this range. There also needs to be pot size, shape and volume accounted for with any additives like perlite. The water holding capacity will change quite a bit depending on these factors. I can't see how one can simply say feed to X % and dry back for X hours because the dry back is going to be extremely varying times depending on these.

Also curious how only feeding to 60-70% saturation means your not getting any run off and how this is not an issue? I just can't see not having issue with nutrient buildup and lockouts

Late to the party but looking forward to some discussion on this because tbh I see lots of claims and not much support either visual or scientific.

Have to forgive me ppls I'm a skeptic by nature so don't take this as me dismissing but rather looking for supporting evidence.
 
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Redbarn_Kyle

Redbarn_Kyle

4
3
I will absolutely answer those questions for you. Great questions bt the way! I'm dropping my girl off at the airport theh I'll get back with a thorough response.
 
Treesapair

Treesapair

22
3
Oh yeh im definitely joining this discussion as i also grow in coco, i have about 12 plants under each 1700e led gavita light. If i had to guess my weak point in growing it would be watering as i am fairly new to this business. I grow in 3 gal fabric pots. I do let them dry to some degree in flower however i also dont water too much during late flower 1-2 weeks before harvest and this is because they drink more slowly during that time so i would love to know if i should just keep them drenched or not. I dont check the moisture tbh but i do keep attention on humidity and temperature.
I wondered the same thing when I was growing in sunshine #4 advanced. Last grow in coco was my first and i did not decrease frequency toward the last two weeks I just let them ride and it was a great crop. However I agree they drink less. Maybe someone w more knowledge will chimed in on this. I know just enough to get me into trouble 😂
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
Also notice a VPD chart and I can't help but comment because they are imo really awful to use and here is why.

They don't take leaf temps into account. This is absolutely crucial as that can vary anywhere from 0-10f cooler than air temps. Imo it's impossible to have an accurate VPD without that factor being taken into account. Can even go to a positive number if environment is an issue or the plants are drought stressed.
 
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