mpb grow in planning stage, some questions

[Inuit]

Hey all, hey DD’s, great garden. Really impressive and inspirational.

I would love to implement this type of system in my garden, and think I could do it well, but have some preliminary questions for you.

First concern, wattage . I can get about 7200w to play with that I feel comfortable using, although 5000w would be better for me as that would still allow me several lights to grow seedlings and mothers under.

Also, right now I am limited to a 18,000btu AC, so I don’t want to run more wattage than it can handle…

Currently I use 600’s. I’ve read you said you won’t hit the yield mark using all 600’s, so given my power usage restriction, what is the most efficient setup? Couple 1k’s in the center with sixes in perimeter. I could run 8-9(12 max) sixers, or 2(4 max) 1k’s and 5 sixers, just not sure the most efficient setup.

I was also thinking double stacking the sixers on top of each other, or two on one side, just not sure the best way to handle it.


Next, is growroom size…..my area is a 12x12 split via flip flop into 2-6x6 flower rooms w/2400w ea. They are basically stalls with the front 12x6 open with veg and mother tables as well as clone racks. The stalls are open during lights on, and the one AC does the whole thing.

Currently I haven’t run more than 3600w+2x2ft t-8 fl in there w/the ac and it stayed cool enough . I built the area, so the inner wall dividing the stalls is open to reconfiguration, but the basic 12x12 perimeter isn’t really changeable. If I need the whole area I can relocate clones and moms, but I would like to keep them in the 12x12area if possible.

So, based on wattage rec’s above, whats my basic floorspace for the flowering chamber, or, how much area does each plant need. I know you said plants are ~40” apart on center, but does that include distance to the walls and how do the lights fall into that equation?

How much overhead height is necessary, as I am limited to about 7’ total. I know you said keep the plants under 4’, but since they are off the ground to drain…..oh, wait, duh, I’m a dumbass, this is a vert setup so no lights overhead , I’m still curious if 7’ will work though, lol.

Next, water chillers . I understand how important these can be, however, my res is currently in the grow space in right next to the AC and usually stays a nice 70 degrees. What are max rec’d res temps and if the res is below that via room ac is that OK, or will the res temp climb much higher in this system compared to e/f?

Have you ever calculated total cost per plant including all additional hardware?

Do you run air control areas for dehuey or is it in the rooms somewhere?

Ever run PBP in the system, and what else besides advanced have you run in it?

Well, back to the land of finals . I need to reread the threads and make a gameplan, but wanted to address my immediate concerns.

Thanks, and be safe
I

 

[easypleasie]

Hey bro, I can't believe you don't have any responses in here! lol

I'm limited on experience but I can try to help a brutha out :)

I'd use the entire room for flower if you could. Easier to keep the proper environment - humidity, co2, temps. I don't think high co2 in your veg area is good.

I have an 18,000 btu mini-split and with the general consensus of needing 4000 btu per 1k, you're looking at maxing out at around 4k. You also have to factor other heat generating devices like humidifiers, co2 generators, etc. Cool tubes could make a huge difference if you don't have enough cooling power to run bare bulb.

I think you're gonna need a chiller for sure. With the heat from the large water pumps, air pumps and all the circulation through the tubs and lines, it's gonna add a significant amount of heat.

With a 7ft. ceiling, you're gonna need to keep your girls small. You can partition the room to have space for your res, ballasts, air pumps. You gotta keep your air pumps separated from the flower room if you're running co2.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[Inuit]

Hey EP, thanks for being the first reply!

Yeah, after more research I was thinking the whole room is the way to go as well.

Huh, I thought it was 3kbtu/1k, not 4, but I've never pushed my AC past needing to cool 4x600w unvented, as the rest are all air cooled. I was thinking I was OK to run 6k, you sure its 4kbtu per?

I am trying to do this on a shoestring, so figuring out what I need w/o breaking the bank is key. Might try to find a good quality chiller locally and then I can get it "that day" if my res temps climb too high. Currently they are 68F, but I totally understand how they will climb.

What is the rec res temp in this system? is it 76-78 max like most other hydro or ?

When I do this I will probably do one partial run w/ 3/4 of the space and leave on of my normal flowering stalls in place as insurance. If it goes well then we'll change it all out.

That 42#er is really whats got me agitated. DD's said in one thread he gets a k average, or about 2.2#. Then, the smiths garden clocks in at 42#. On a good run I can pull almost 5# from 2400 w, so I am already @ the 2# per 1k region, and if thats the average w/the dd system, then it really won't be worth it for me....however, If I could pull 2.5-4# per 1k then it surely would be worth it!

Be safe and thanks for stopping in!

I

 

[easypleasie]

I'm not exactly sure but it's pretty close to that. I've also read 3500 btu used as an average. Could totally depend on ambient temps. Summer is gonna require a bit more than Winter time. If you're running bare 1k bulbs, it's probably gonna be closer to 4000+ per 1k. Those bad boys get HOT! It could be 3000 if you're using cool tubes. Got a couple variables at play here. So, i'd say anywhere between 3000-4000 btu per 1k, that should cover it :)

I think the recommended res temp is somewhere around 68 degrees. Part of the magic of the system is having the cold solution with high amounts of dissolved oxygen. And keeping it nice and cool keeps the nasties from attacking.

It's a big step to get to that next tier in yield. The 42 lb. grow was a huge leap from any other grows i've ever seen. I can't expect to hit those numbers right away. Hell, even come anywhere close! lol Just getting to a gram/watt is a big achievement. Anything over that is gonna be quite difficult. It gets much harder to reach those bigger numbers. Everything has to be perfect and dialed in.

A big bonus with this system is the low plant count. You can get good numbers a lot of ways but growing trees is the best way with limited plant count.

How many plants are you running with your 2400 watts to hit those numbers and how long did you have to veg? I have a room with 2400 watts right now :)

I think you have to be ok with a complete crop failure before making a switch to any new system like this. Especially if you rely on the harvest. Better have some cash in the bank to pay the bills in case you have a problem with the grow.

All comes down to what works best for ya. If you don't know that yet, then you try different methods like I am :) I'll find something I like that fits my needs. Besides, I really like learning and trying things out for myself.

Best of luck, bro!

 

[Texas Kid]

It sounds like your trying to put a Ferrari motor in a soap box derby car and that usually leads to dissappointment...

IMO these systems are not about compromise at all, especially if your looking for anywhere near the same results/success as others are having......I mean DDS spent $24k on his first trip to the grow store and then another $5-6k after that to get it dialed, they are running 3ton dedicated a/c's, in sealed rooms, and 18,000watts + in each space, definately not trying to just barely make the minimum requirements of the space. These sytems are about optimising every single aspect of the enviroment so that the plant can function at a super healthy excellerated pace, not any room for cutting corners or compromising to get close and still have the same expectations of success.

Although incredibly impressive, these systems are not for everybody IMO...

DDS, just curious, on the 10 plant 42 lb grow, what was the total cost of the setup exactly to your specs? everything down to the kitchen sink..

Tex

 

[easypleasie]

Once again, TK provides us with valuable words of wisdom :)

I think the appeal of the thread title, "A 42 Pound 10 plant tree grow" has got a lot of people dreaming :)

It's a HUGE freaking investment to do this right and you're so on point about skimping and expecting to be just as successful. It took DDS years just to get to this point! Nutes/additives for a single run could break the bank!

 

[Texas Kid]

Not trying to throw a wet blanket on anybody or stiffle their enthusiasm, just trying to be realistic...

The planning stages for me would look more like..#1 - 12'x24' dedicated flower room, #2 - $20,000. cash, plus alot more coming quick and #3 - a spare 200amp service ready to go for everything to run off of....then I start planning the grow, but not before I have those three things in place.

IMO and this is totally that "my opinion" these are pretty much all or nothing, I mean you can adapt some of the concepts and techniques to smaller less equipt setups and have success but your just spinning your wheels, stick with something a little smaller scale, alot easier to manage and way way cheaper in the near and long term if your not goin full tilt from jump street.

Kind of like Chapelle, how much for a coke? how much if ya just pour it in my hand? how much for one rib? lol

Tex

 

[easypleasie]

Yikes! I wish I didn't just add up what i've spent so far... Shit adds up quick

 

[Inuit]

I guess I should also mention that I am Alaska from other boards.

How ya'll doing DHF and TXK :) Good to read you!

Anyhow, this aint my first rodeo :)

How many plants are you running with your 2400 watts to hit those numbers and how long did you have to veg? I have a room with 2400 watts right now :)

48 plants in an ebb and grow under 4800w(2 flip rooms w/2400 per) Plants rooted in 1" rw, transferred into coco or ht under t-8 for about 10 days, into the system 1 wk 24/0, then 12/12.

Gotta go take a test, will get to the rest of the replies later tonight.

Be safe

I(A)

 

[Boots Sugarleaf]

Yikes! I wish I didn't just add up what i've spent so far... Shit adds up quick

yeah, I'm saving my receipts for an accurate cost in the end...if I didn't already have lots of bulbs and ballasts, pumps, fans, etc this would be a ridiculous bill

 

[Texas Kid]

I spend between $7500-$10,000 every couple of months now and it has gotten worse now that I track all my reciepts, close to 50k on the year so far and we have a few more weeks to go....ouch!!

Tex

 

[Texas Kid]

Basically what I spent on blow back in the day...lol

Tex

 

[doubleds]

I spend between $7500-$10,000 every couple of months now and it has gotten worse now that I track all my reciepts, close to 50k on the year so far and we have a few more weeks to go....ouch!!

Tex

You think you have an ouch bro......

5 different gardens, 21 - 3 ton a/c's, 168 - 1000 watt lights, 62 600 watt lights. 22 - 1/2 ton chillers..... on and on and on..... 500,000.00$.

bigtime ouch bro.

dds

 

[easypleasie]

You think you have an ouch bro......

5 different gardens, 21 - 3 ton a/c's, 168 - 1000 watt lights, 62 600 watt lights. 22 - 1/2 ton chillers..... on and on and on..... 500,000.00$.

bigtime ouch bro.

dds

Good god, man!!! How the hell do you even find time to participate on the boards!!! lol

 

[Texas Kid]

Go big or go home!!! hell and thats just gear, no bills, genetics, nutes...

Tex

 

[TyKaycha]

Kind of like Chapelle, how much for a coke? how much if ya just pour it in my hand? how much for one rib? lol

Tex

Wasn't that Chris Rock in the movie "I'm Gonna Git You, Sucka" Rib Joint Customer (Character)

 

[Inuit]

It sounds like your trying to put a Ferrari motor in a soap box derby car and that usually leads to dissappointment...

IMO these systems are not about compromise at all, especially if your looking for anywhere near the same results/success as others are having......I mean DDS spent $24k on his first trip to the grow store and then another $5-6k after that to get it dialed, they are running 3ton dedicated a/c's, in sealed rooms, and 18,000watts + in each space, definately not trying to just barely make the minimum requirements of the space. These sytems are about optimising every single aspect of the enviroment so that the plant can function at a super healthy excellerated pace, not any room for cutting corners or compromising to get close and still have the same expectations of success.

Although incredibly impressive, these systems are not for everybody IMO...

DDS, just curious, on the 10 plant 42 lb grow, what was the total cost of the setup exactly to your specs? everything down to the kitchen sink..

Tex

Hey Tex, I appreaciate your words man. Thanks exactly why I started this thread, to figure out what it will take money wise before I decide to jump in with both feet. My funds aren't unlimited, but I can afford to do it right if I decide too......

Since I seem to have an overabundance of grow gear sitting around unused, it would be better for me to use what I have instead of buying all new everything from the ground up. I don't want to cut corners, just not re-buy the corners if I already have them.

I can run 7k of lighting comfortably and I figured 1120w/plant from the 42lb grow, so basically 6 plants would max out my electrical "comfort" range, after the added ac, fans, pumps, hot tub, etc....IF I hit the same mark that would put me @ 2.5x my current better yield range. That would make it all worth it for sure :)

Once again, TK provides us with valuable words of wisdom :)

I think the appeal of the thread title, "A 42 Pound 10 plant tree grow" has got a lot of people dreaming :)

It's a HUGE freaking investment to do this right and you're so on point about skimping and expecting to be just as successful. It took DDS years just to get to this point! Nutes/additives for a single run could break the bank!

Its surely got me dreaming! But once again, I don't want to skimp, just use what I already have and maximize the use of cashflow :).

Cost is one of the things I plant to calculate in this thread once I finish my last exam on friday. I already calculated a rough per plant cost from DD's figure of 29000 per 23 plants @ 1250 per plant site.

Don't worry, If I end up going this route, I will come correct :)

Not trying to throw a wet blanket on anybody or stiffle their enthusiasm, just trying to be realistic...

The planning stages for me would look more like..#1 - 12'x24' dedicated flower room, #2 - $20,000. cash, plus alot more coming quick and #3 - a spare 200amp service ready to go for everything to run off of....then I start planning the grow, but not before I have those three things in place.

IMO and this is totally that "my opinion" these are pretty much all or nothing, I mean you can adapt some of the concepts and techniques to smaller less equipt setups and have success but your just spinning your wheels, stick with something a little smaller scale, alot easier to manage and way way cheaper in the near and long term if your not goin full tilt from jump street.

Kind of like Chapelle, how much for a coke? how much if ya just pour it in my hand? how much for one rib? lol

Tex

Hey Tex, no worries, no wet blanket perceived :). The way I figure it, if I could run a room half that size, 12x12, for half that much $10,000, I already have a 200A panel, and get a similar yield per plant then that would be awesome. I know DDs yeilds are the exception, and not the rule though. (fwiw, i'm talking about the 4lb plant. I can already get 2 per 1k, so changing up and getting that wouldn't really do much but lower my plant numbers, and where I am, that don't mean sqaut, unless you're over 99).

I am surely going to wait and see other peoples yields come in before I jump in though, and make a cost-benefit analysis and see if its worth it or not.

I do appreciate the advice greatly though, and surely keep it under consideration.

Either drop in probe style or inline chillers needta be the first on the purchase list and then bigtime A/C action along with a Santa Fe dehuey ....Everything else follows that IME......

Good luck Inuit......DHF......Doubleds.....You`ve got mail at the other place Bro......

Hey DHF,

Thanks for stopping in. I've read about the Santa Fe before. How would that compare to an industrial dehuey? Right now I have 2x60 pint per day. One in the room and one in the finished living space on the other side. Keeps a steady 50% no problem, but I would still like to get it lower, so I wouldn't expect them to do the job with 5 or 6 monsters.

A

 

[Inuit]

yeah, I'm saving my receipts for an accurate cost in the end...if I didn't already have lots of bulbs and ballasts, pumps, fans, etc this would be a ridiculous bill

Thats what I'm talking about man. I got lots of shit too, so no sense buying all new.

Well Hell A.......Jump on in the water`s fine.........

As well as you pay attention ta detail you`ll do okies I`m sure........

You`re one of the better "young" growers I`ve seen in a while so after finals and vacation you can design a new "DD`s" setup and let us drool over it.......

Handle it my buddy and keep us posted.......

Happy Holidays Bro.........DHF........

Tex.......Glad you reallocated funds for profit instead of a monkey on da back cuz I love yo shit ....especially the "kiddie pool" grows.....LOL.......Lovin that UC too ......

"Young", who you calling young you old...... :) Just teasin of course. Hope your doing well DHF. Any plans for any of the Further dates this year?

Thanks for the words of encouragement :)

You think you have an ouch bro......

5 different gardens, 21 - 3 ton a/c's, 168 - 1000 watt lights, 62 600 watt lights. 22 - 1/2 ton chillers..... on and on and on..... 500,000.00$.

bigtime ouch bro.

dds

GOOD LORD MAN! You need a warehouse or three!

 

[OregonMeds]

You aren't understanding how he's getting a high output per plant if you think you can run 6 plants with 7k.

It takes a certain number of plants so that most plants have FOUR 1k lights around them, then you hit big numbers. You may as well stick to two plants and 6k of lights if you are limited to 6k and want them big like this, or to at least prove you can do it before investing a ton of money.

Think about the light/plant layout trying to get 4k or close on ea.

Don't underestimate the difficulty of growing like this either, you're really pushing things and small problems become big fast.

 

[Inuit]

You aren't understanding how he's getting a high output per plant if you think you can run 6 plants with 7k.

It takes a certain number of plants so that most plants have FOUR 1k lights around them, then you hit big numbers. You may as well stick to two plants and 6k of lights if you are limited to 6k and want them big like this, or to at least prove you can do it before investing a ton of money.

Think about the light/plant layout trying to get 4k or close on ea.

Don't underestimate the difficulty of growing like this either, you're really pushing things and small problems become big fast.

Hey Oregon, I was under the impression that light from 3 sides is OK. Thanks for the tips as well. Don't worry I won't jump in until I see some other people besides DD's resuts and see if its worth it. Just trying to figure out what it would take.

I