MPB Problems Root Rot

[Coxie]

the fix

Hey TC,

Right on bro! The fix for me was switching to hempy's. I ran hempy's in my old mpb bins, had zero problems, and yielded more than all 4 of my mpb runs. I'll never switch from hempy's now. I got (finally), over 2lbs per tree, and I know that I'll do better as I get the hempy's dialed in.

Goodbye mpb's & good riddance!!!!!

 

[MediMary]

Ok dds why do you think some folks like heath don't have problems with water temps when they are running these systems, granted he doesnt use co2 so his room is much cooler.

a lot of folks using chillers still have had problems, seems like the slime is what gets people, what hit you TF was it slime or rot?

When you use Roots Excel and hydro-fungicide could you please share more about how you use them, together, separate, at different times, etc..
You should check out groovyhydro, they have a little comment about you :)

Is this why the top feed is so important? so that little space where the rocks are humid but not actually in contact with a sterilizer stays wet?


Edit*

I just reread this,
the thread starter was having problems with his ph climbing, doesnt ph drop when you have plain ol root rot.

 

[TrichromeFan]

Medimary,
My ph did not drop or raise when I has the rot. No slime. The main part of the rot was right below the crown, in the net pot.

Coxie,
Right on man! Go with what works for you. There is no doubt that the jury reports that the hempy has large yields, and is pretty damn stable. You gonna do another thread sometime. I was lovin your water cooled hash plant run.

-TF

 

[deacon1503]

Hey TC,

Right on bro! The fix for me was switching to hempy's. I ran hempy's in my old mpb bins, had zero problems, and yielded more than all 4 of my mpb runs. I'll never switch from hempy's now. I got (finally), over 2lbs per tree, and I know that I'll do better as I get the hempy's dialed in.

Goodbye mpb's & good riddance!!!!!

Hempy's?

 

[TrichromeFan]

Yes, hempy's. Search the site. Check out mrdizzle's thread.

 

[UCMENOW]

It's all about proper lighting and conditions and soil can get you 2 LB plants.....coco is a happy medium (pun intended) for those wanting hydro performance with soil dependability.

 

[doubleds]

Flak, feedback, whatever. To me it's just questions and answers. Mind you, they are 6 months saved up in the piggy bank. Sorry if you feel I'm beating up on him. I would call it a heated debate. There is no question, that the system has monstrous growth potential, and at a very accelerated rate. I know that there have been 4 pound trees from the system. They just were exceptions, and not averages. Still a 2 pound plant is pretty crazy to have indoors. My biggest beef is that DD got all of our heads swimming with the MPB fever, and then disappeared just in time for everybody to hit the wall with the system, and grab for straws on the true fix. There was no info on signs to watch out for besides checking your roots and foliage. I would love for DD's to redeem his once brilliant image here, by working through all of these problem grows, and helping people understand more on what it is to fine tune his system. I will be running it again in a short while, and we will see if I can ride it or if I get bucked off again. I am always game for giving things a fair shake. An expensive shake. But, I set out to run this thing, and I'm not ready to pull the plug quite yet.

-TF

You can say anything you like tf, no problem, this is a free forum for sure. My photographs speak for themselves. I am not someone mouthing off about anything i do w/o backing everything up with pictures. simple. Because you can't do it bro doesnt make it so. When this forum (mpb) first started up the first 3 to 4 people trying pulled good results. Strainwise, you are right, i have 2 or 3 of the highest yielding strains out there. I never once claimed any different. The first time i grew kush was the katsu and i got 8 ounces. That was 2 years ago and i now average 2.5 per. It took 2 years to figure that plant out. People like you want it overnight and want to bitch and complain when it doesnt work.

I had root problems to bro but not pythium root rot. I had plant that on monday looked great, tuesday yellow and all leaves hanging down straight, wed brown and crispy..... dead plant (i will post pics if i can find them. First thing i did was lok at the roots and they were brown, uh oh... root rot right.
nope. I contacted jk and others for some help and got all kinds of suggestions but plant by plant they kept dying. Here is where i figured it out.

The day that i found the crispy plant i checked the roots of all the plants. They were all nice and healthy. As each plant browned up so did there roots.
It was a heat problem. I use the mini split a/cs in my personal room because 4 or 5 years ago they were the only units made to get down to minus 20 degrees farenheit. Although they work great they dont blow to the corners of the rooms. Now, i did 2 things different...... i set my chillers to 62 degrees, did this when i thought it was pythium, pythium cannot grow under 65 degrees, its impossible. when i finally realised exactly what it was (lost 10 of 22) for 3 grows b4 i figured it out i bought 3 can fan max 8 inch with ducting and blew air into the areas i was losing the plants.... havnt lost 1 since.

i looked threw someones grow who got root rot the other day and it looks exactly like what i just explained, yellow leaves hanging straight down, willing to bet it was heat not root rot.

hope this helps

dds

 

[doubleds]

pics

Here are the pics i promised, after you look at these go through peeps grows that have complained of root rot and you will see alot of similarities. These pics are from heat stress... not pythium root rot. Also, do you know how absolutley hard it is to get pythium root rot? In all of canada i could only find 1 company that would anylise your water for pythium and they r in bc. Theres probably 20 in new brunswick alone but when i asked the majority of them why they wouldnt check to see if it was pythium they said they hadnt heard of any cases where pythium was present in water for over 10 years... most laughed. The sample i sent to bc was negative.

Here's the pics i promised from early 2008

 

[doubleds]

It seems that many people, without any science back ground are jumping to conclusions that they dont know anything about.

It is almost impossible to get pythium root rot nowadays with what we put in our water. You must source the real reason.

If you dont beleive me then have the water tested, must b a 1000 places in cali that will do it for you for 25$. ask jk, he sent me the list for canada.

again, hope this helps

dds

 

[TrichromeFan]

I don't know about everybody else's, but my plant did not look that way. First it looked like a calcium deficiency, then later it started looking like Potassium deficient towards the end. The leaves did not just brown up from the tip, with the rest being relatively healthy.

Here's a pic of the plant's roots after pulling out of the hydroton. That was the epicenter of the rot for my problem on that run. Don't know if it's pythium, but it's rot of some kind.

Plant with problem

Later, after many leaves died off.

 

[MediMary]

Medimary,
My ph did not drop or raise when I has the rot. No slime. The main part of the rot was right below the crown, in the net pot.

Coxie,
Right on man! Go with what works for you. There is no doubt that the jury reports that the hempy has large yields, and is pretty damn stable. You gonna do another thread sometime. I was lovin your water cooled hash plant run.

-TF

I generally don't like to chime in on things I dont understand, hope you don't mind my .2$

I just re read your whole thread TF, do you think there is a chance you damaged your roots with the 5ml of physan per gallon at the begining of the run?

It seems weird to me your ph was not going up or down, sometimes if burn/shock the roots they will turn brown and that can be mistaken for root rot.

I havnt had the rot in years(thank god) but I remember it making the ph drop, and from my limited experience with the slime makes the ph go up big time.

 

[doubleds]

I don't know about everybody else's, but my plant did not look that way. First it looked like a calcium deficiency, then later it started looking like Potassium deficient towards the end. The leaves did not just brown up from the tip, with the rest being relatively healthy.

Here's a pic of the plant's roots after pulling out of the hydroton. That was the epicenter of the rot for my problem on that run. Don't know if it's pythium, but it's rot of some kind.

Plant with problem

Later, after many leaves died off.

That last pic is identical to my pics except that my leaves wernt taken off. It looks like the cube your plant was started in was sitting directly in the water.
I was told by physan20 staff to add 1 oz to 150 gallons of nute solution to prevent root rot. Never tried it tho.

[had the same symptoms Tf]

Yeh dd you are polite in your replies and have photos...a big plus in this world...if one is going to be a teacher.

When you say "heat" you are speaking of inside tub nute/root temps?

This is much more believable than lumen shock...

Because as i mentioned i never ever lost a plant in "krustys" dumping them into rooms with 4@1ks on each plant...so lumen shock had to be some other factor like
'root rot due to tubs temps being too high' even though we did follow your advice to a T...but i guess you did too[joke]
And yes since then my res temp has always been under 62f

i guess its a larger learning curve for all of us[ including you]..unlike krusty buckets.

i know it was a work in progress and nobody made me try RDWC.

I can easily say my problems could have been from
"too high internal tub temps "..which of course "rots the the roots."
So in fact it was "root rot" that everyone got ..just not root rot due to disease.



I also think that sometimes the "3" up the basket "idea can rot the stem
if the stalk gets too wet..either by the tub lid shifting down a bit or misjudging
how far the transplant went down in the net pot/inner bucket.

i mean heat in the room bro but sure as hell a warm bucket is the major blow for sure.

[QUOTE


=MediMary;524884]I generally don't like to chime in on things I dont understand, hope you don't mind my .2$

I just re read your whole thread TF, do you think there is a chance you damaged your roots with the 5ml of physan per gallon at the begining of the run?

It seems weird to me your ph was not going up or down, sometimes if burn/shock the roots they will turn brown and that can be mistaken for root rot.

I havnt had the rot in years(thank god) but I remember it making the ph drop, and from my limited experience with the slime makes the ph go up big time.[/QUOTE]

 

[aleYarok]

same thing happened to just one of my plants last run... room temps did not go over 82

 

[doubleds]

same thing happened to just one of my plants last run... room temps did not go over 82

everything can be different. Esp. strains, my g13 will take all the heat you can give it but my g13 pheno from my 13dawgz will brown and die at 91 degrees. If you really want to be certain of the plants overall temperature you have to buy a heat laser gun. Point it at the plant, pull the trigger and you will know what temp it is. I am not saying this is your case but dont count on the temp everywhere n the room being the same as what your thermometre is reading. That would be a very big mistake. I have never seen it once, i always have a buch of hi lo indoor weatherman digital metres and i watch them very closely, the highs and lows.

dds

 

[aleYarok]

everything can be different. Esp. strains, my g13 will take all the heat you can give it but my g13 pheno from my 13dawgz will brown and die at 91 degrees. If you really want to be certain of the plants overall temperature you have to buy a heat laser gun. Point it at the plant, pull the trigger and you will know what temp it is. I am not saying this is your case but dont count on the temp everywhere n the room being the same as what your thermometre is reading. That would be a very big mistake. I have never seen it once, i always have a buch of hi lo indoor weatherman digital metres and i watch them very closely, the highs and lows.

dds

exactly the reply i was looking for...
the middle plant is ready 82 and the side of room is reading 80... but the leaves could be hotter being close to the lights.

it was also my first grow and i fucked up on lots of things... was still really happy to get 4 ~3/4lbers on my first grow. this next run im hoping for ~1.5lbs of bubba, can already tell this grow is gonna knock the other one out.

 

[TrichromeFan]

I just re read your whole thread TF, do you think there is a chance you damaged your roots with the 5ml of physan per gallon at the begining of the run?

It seems weird to me your ph was not going up or down, sometimes if burn/shock the roots they will turn brown and that can be mistaken for root rot..

Absolutely. I am certain that the Physan20 at that dosage, combined with the foam sticking the roots to the lids to dry out, was the biggest kick in the crotch that my girls had. 100% my fault. Although, I was already getting some slight funky smell from the tubs, so I feel that there was already rot of some sort. No mistake on the brown. There were a couple of spots on the bottom of the root mass, but the worst was in the net pot. You just grab the stalk, and it pulled right out of the pot. Rotten just under the crown.

That last pic is identical to my pics except that my leaves wernt taken off. It looks like the cube your plant was started in was sitting directly in the water.
I was told by physan20 staff to add 1 oz to 150 gallons of nute solution to prevent root rot. Never tried it tho.

i mean heat in the room bro but sure as hell a warm bucket is the major blow for sure.

It doesn't look the same to me. First the leaves are lighter between the veins. Then they started to turn purple/red, then die. Bottom of the plant, working it's way to the top.

The cube that it was started in was only a 1" cube. It was way above the water line. My net pots were only 1.5" submerged in the solution.

I think that the root of the evil has to do with inside the net pot. Down below, you have a an oxygen rich, solution that the roots swim in. You can pretty easily control the area there. Next, you have the net pot, which is not submerged by solution, creating a moist area that might be more conducive to rot proliferation. I know at this point that to sterilize the media, that it has to all be in contact with the fungicide. So that leaves you with a balance of trying to fight the rot by dousing the whole net pot with fungicide, but then you are also trying to keep the crown and base of the stem not water logged. I know that you say you run your top feed 24hrs a day. Do you place the drippers, as to not hit the cube itself, or are you saturating the cube?

Now, it also should be said, that all of the RDWC system styles that I have run across, seem to have a good potential for rot. The idea that has been brewing here is that the drainage pipes might harbor some sort of pockets of fungus or bacteria, that comes back even after a cleaning. I have had the luxury of my system being offline for a few weeks, so I have taken the liberty to flush 1 week straight a bleach and water solution, then the same on a Physan 20 solution. Hopefully that helps out for the next run.

And thank you DD for engaging in this discussion. As you know in any relationship, talking things out really helps everybody.

same thing happened to just one of my plants last run... room temps did not go over 82

I believe you, ale. Was that one plant possibly in a warmer spot in the room?
Air circulation good all around it? Seems odd if it is heat, that it would be only one. I have definitely seen people just lose one or a few. And then there's the ones who brick the whole thing. (me):worried

On to the future!

-TF

 

[aleYarok]

yes it was the center plant, time to get a laser temp gun and probably some more fans. so i want the leaves (and not the air) to read around 82 for optimal c02 correct?

 

[aleYarok]

i believe DDs said he just sticks the dripper right in the cube... i use a drip ring running 24/7.

i really dont think it can be over saturated these bitches drink so much water...

 

[TrichromeFan]

Ale,
I just checked my veg with my laser gun, and although the temps varied, my probe on my thermometer was similar. Now with that said, my probe is right at the top of the canopy, and there were a couple of hot spots by as much as 3 degrees in my case.

I get freaked out by running that much water in a cube. I can try it though. My last run didn't really have much of a cube, but I managed to get mushy funk on 2 of them. Go figure.

 

[aleYarok]

i believe that mushy funk is green algae growing on top of the cube. doesnt seem to really harm the plant, a sheet of panda plastic over the cube so the algae doesnt get any light fixes the problem.