My ez clone officially sucks

CocoCola · May 13, 2014

We Solidarity said:
I soak my sprayer heads in pond cleaner and run bleach water through the system without heads to flush out the manifold. Then replace heads and run system for longer with bleach. Neoprenes get bleach scrubbed and soaked in 150 degree water before going back on cloner, and replaced every other cloning. It doesn't matter what I put in the water, keeping PH below 6.0 with a strong acid (usually just have to ph correct twice with tap water otherwise use a stronger acid) and keeping water temps low (pump only running 20-50% of the time) gets me clones in about a week and a half. Fresh air exchange is also very important...nothing will grow in stagnant air.

Lighting doesn't seem to matter much, in my experience. Just don't go below 18/6 unless you're working w a 12 week strain flowering strain.

I agree w this for sure! And if running bleach and sterilizing your collars is not killing off the bad guys, you may have a checklist of things to consider.

1. Well water can introduce bad guys but Clear Rez by EZ-Clone would prevent this (there'a a homemade recipe for this, fyi)

2. Really cleaning everything, looking for cracks in pumps and other accessories that could be letting bad-guys in and douse those areas w 10% household bleach. This includes your air-pump lines.

3. Def replace collars, regardless of brand. PermaClone is my personal fav bc it's high temp sterilizable and you can write on them w a sharpie.

If you use clear Rez you don't have to worry about temp as much.

How's you ppms of the water?

Seamaiden · May 13, 2014

ilaughlast said:
youre harboring bacteria in the crud you cant see inside. they go down hill. bleach doesnt help. run muriatic acid diluted through like they do in fishtank rezs and then do the erythromiacin traetment youll have a brand new cloner. change your neoprene too.

I'm not familiar with this method (for cleaning out a sump), but I do happen to have some muriatic on hand. What dilution rate?

CocoCola · May 13, 2014

Seamaiden said:
I'm not familiar with this method (for cleaning out a sump), but I do happen to have some muriatic on hand. What dilution rate?

I have never used myriatic acid to sterilize, so it's hard to say. I'd circulate 1/3 cup per gallon and use a 1/10 bleach spray on all the parts when you hand bleach things (looking at cracks and parts and accessories).

Be sure to clean and unscew every little
Part of the cloner. Drain, airline, individual sprayers, and sterilize/replace collars.

Seamaiden · May 13, 2014

It's a homemade cloner, the collars are made of PVC. My own feeling right now is that the plastic is just too porous to really get sterilized well. I've used everything in my arsenal, including straight 91% isopropyl, and that shit kills damn near *everything* except extremophiles, and I don't think it's extremophiles that are infecting it.

I used muriatic acid to clean old PVC to plumb the fish warehouse at Petschmo's distribution center back in '93 or so, you can rest assured I cannot remember what dilution rate I was using. I remember it was covered in rodent piss and that was *right* when Hantavirus had been figured out. Needless to say, I was pissed!

CocoCola · May 13, 2014

ilaughlast said:
youre harboring bacteria in the crud you cant see inside. they go down hill. bleach doesnt help. run muriatic acid diluted through like they do in fishtank rezs and then do the erythromiacin traetment youll have a brand new cloner. change your neoprene too.

I definitely agree this may work, but bleach readily available and will kills the pathogens people are having trouble with..and quickly. It's clear to me that once you have a bad fungus, you have a do a very complete clean and replace your cloning collars.

1. Bleach soaking & scrubbing of all the parts--air line, sprayer heads, drain cap & it's rubber washers, and a detail of the pump, look for places bacteria could hide. I found slime inside the back side cap.
2. Total system scrub down with 10% bleach w/ couple drops soap.
3. Replacement of cloning collars; PermaClone is the best b/c you'll never replace collars again.
4. Run 1/4 cup bleach per gallon through the system for 20 - 30 minutes
5. Run Clear Rez during your next cloning session for protection.

CocoCola · May 13, 2014

Seamaiden said:
It's a homemade cloner, the collars are made of PVC. My own feeling right now is that the plastic is just too porous to really get sterilized well. I've used everything in my arsenal, including straight 91% isopropyl, and that shit kills damn near *everything* except extremophiles, and I don't think it's extremophiles that are infecting it.

I used muriatic acid to clean old PVC to plumb the fish warehouse at Petschmo's distribution center back in '93 or so, you can rest assured I cannot remember what dilution rate I was using. I remember it was covered in rodent piss and that was *right* when Hantavirus had been figured out. Needless to say, I was pissed!

Your collars are PVC?

indonesia · May 13, 2014

very helpful thanks guys

bongobongo · May 13, 2014

I agree sea maiden.. If pvc was the best collar material you'd see it in everyday use a lot more... But really your the only one ive ever heard using it. Those permaclone collars are really nice man. I use those and just bake em

KiLoEleMeNt · May 13, 2014

I have had a few problems with my ez clone as well but once I figured out to use bleach with citric acid and salt I have never had a problem again with contamination however I do find some strains are a lot harder to clone than others
also as for the timer thing that was mentioned I do not see how this would affect the process I have done it both ways a find I get less problems running 24/7 can anyone explain why some can & others cant use timers my friend has a small ez clone and uses a time he has perfect results every time when I was having my issues I tried to use a timer to fix and it didn't help then I started cleaning it out the way I do now with the manifold running and pouring salt into it but once I used this method and took away the timer on my 60 spot ez clone it works perfect whats the deal

Seamaiden · May 14, 2014

Bleach + citric acid + Na? What ratges? I never thought about using osmotic pressure! Why didn't I think of that? We use it in aquatics quite a lot, including just to clean fish up of external parasites and pathogens--using fresh water for saltwater fish and salt water for freshies. D'oh!

I use a timer that allows me to do a 15ON:15OFF cycle. This is specifically for the root development and because it makes a huge difference when transplanting to media. In the past, for example when I would take cuttings of my pothos and root those in just water, then try to transplant to soil, the roots just didn't hold up, so I figured it just can't be done (by me). Then when I got the cloner it was with very specific instructions to use the timer so I'll get stronger roots that will make transplanting easier. And in the beginning, it was! Oh my God it was SO much easier, and in fact with just 32 sites I quickly put myself in 'breakin' the law' territory and had to ratchet myself back.

CocoCola said:
Your collars are PVC?

Yes. I can take a photo if you like. On one hand, it's rather genius, on the other, I now have this problem that I've been unable to get resolved. It's a basic plastic tub like you'd buy at Walmart or Target, with holes drilled in the lid for the PVC collars and for the water pump's cord to go through. It also came with an aquarium heater but I haven't used that in a while because I usually use it in my veg-table that's got an Electric Blanket Sandwich that keeps things warm enough. Cooling stuff down if it's too hot? Not so much, gotta rely on the basement being the basement for that.

This is the first home I've ever lived in that has a basement, EVER. It's a trip and I dig the whole basement thang.

bongobongo said:
I agree sea maiden.. If pvc was the best collar material you'd see it in everyday use a lot more... But really your the only one ive ever heard using it. Those permaclone collars are really nice man. I use those and just bake em

Maybe so, but... it's Sched. 40 PVC, it should be good, shouldn't it? Like I said, it was a homemade unit that I bought some years ago.

KiLoEleMeNt · May 14, 2014

Hmmmmm perhaps it was my timer I had one from cap 4off 1 on said it was for cloner or other aeroponic uses I will have to try on of my regular 15 15 timers because I do see a slight shock from root to soil, as for the rate of bleach+citric+Na would be 20mil per 5 gal - 1/4 cup per 5gal - salt till the manifold runs clean let sit run 30 min flip jackets then run another 30 min (if you reuse jackets) also I would also like to say sry for the face forum it was not intended for that rout

CocoCola · May 27, 2014

We Solidarity said:
I soak my sprayer heads in pond cleaner and run bleach water through the system without heads to flush out the manifold. Then replace heads and run system for longer with bleach. Neoprenes get bleach scrubbed and soaked in 150 degree water before going back on cloner, and replaced every other cloning. It doesn't matter what I put in the water, keeping PH below 6.0 with a strong acid (usually just have to ph correct twice with tap water otherwise use a stronger acid) and keeping water temps low (pump only running 20-50% of the time) gets me clones in about a week and a half. Fresh air exchange is also very important...nothing will grow in stagnant air.

I'm finding that water temperature isn't so much a problem if your sterilized. I now used 5 ppm chlorite from pool shock (calcium hypochlorite) and the temp says 86, 20% roots @ day 6, total rooting within 10 days. No slime. Reboost w/ the shock at day 3 b/c hypochlorite is short lived. ...and sterilizable collars are the BOMB! Buy collars intended for heat sterilization--see permaclone.

CocoCola · Jun 1, 2014

EZ-Clone, PermaClone, pH ~5.0, Pool shock, 24 hour misting, temp ~85 *F, and 1 T5 @ 12" above... Nubs at 5 days, roots at 7. These pictures are at day 14 b/c my phone's camera didn't work. I need to transplant immediately.

The empty spaces were b/c I ran out of cuttings off my Northern Lights. Only a couple didn't root, one on the left and another in the back right and I still haven't given up on those b/c they have nubs.

Rows 1 - 2 Northern Lights (Sensi Seeds)
Row 3 CBD Skunk-Haze (Dutch Passion)
Rows 4 - 5 White Widow (Seedsmand)
Rows 6 - 7 Skunk #1 (Seedsman)
Rows 8 - 10 Durban Poison (Dutch Passion)

ilaughlast · Jun 2, 2014

how many mils (if liquid or tesspoons if powder )per gallon pool shock gets you to5 ppm

CocoCola said:
EZ-Clone, PermaClone, pH ~5.0, Pool shock, 24 hour misting, temp ~85 *F, and 1 T5 @ 12" above... Nubs at 5 days, roots at 7. These pictures are at day 14 b/c my phone's camera didn't work. I need to transplant immediately.

The empty spaces were b/c I ran out of cuttings off my Northern Lights. Only a couple didn't root, one on the left and another in the back right and I still haven't given up on those b/c they have nubs.

Rows 1 - 2 Northern Lights (Sensi Seeds)
Row 3 CBD Skunk-Haze (Dutch Passion)
Rows 4 - 5 White Widow (Seedsmand)
Rows 6 - 7 Skunk #1 (Seedsman)
Rows 8 - 10 Durban Poison (Dutch Passion)

View attachment 410477 View attachment 410478

o 5 ppm

CocoCola · Jun 2, 2014

It depends on the powder you use, they have different concentrations of "free hypochlorite".

I used a product that said it had 70% free chlorine w/w.

Here's the math:

Equation 1:

70% free hypochlorite/100% Pool Shock = 0.7 g Chlorate per 1 g of powder OR 700 mg hypochlorite/g Pool Shock

Equation 2:

5 ppm = 5 mg/L

5 mg/L x 3.8 L/gal = 19 mg/gal x 10 gal EZ Clone 60 = 190 mg total Hypochlorite.

Combining Equation 1 & 2:

190 mg needed/ (700 mg hypochlorite/g pool shock) = 0.27 g Pool Shock will yield the 190 mg free hypochlorite

ilaughlast said:
how many mils (if liquid or tesspoons if powder )per gallon pool shock gets you to5 ppm

o 5 ppm

ilaughlast · Jun 2, 2014

do you use it to clean between runs too at higher concentrations? seems like it could work for that too and to buy a bag id think youd have enough for every clone made on the west coast. lots around might as well use it like bleach if its effective for that.

CocoCola said:
It depends on the powder you use, they have different concentrations of "free hypochlorite".

I used a product that said it had 70% free chlorine w/w.

Here's the math:

Equation 1:

70% free hypochlorite/100% Pool Shock = 0.7 g Chlorate per 1 g of powder OR 700 mg hypochlorite/g Pool Shock

Equation 2:

5 ppm = 5 mg/L

5 mg/L x 3.8 L/gal = 19 mg/gal x 10 gal EZ Clone 60 = 190 mg total Hypochlorite.

Combining Equation 1 & 2:

190 mg needed/ (700 mg hypochlorite/g pool shock) = 0.27 g Pool Shock will yield the 190 mg free hypochlorite

CocoCola · Jun 2, 2014

I would guess, yes, but bleach is cheap, also.

ilaughlast said:
do you use it to clean between runs too at higher concentrations? seems like it could work for that too and to buy a bag id think youd have enough for every clone made on the west coast. lots around might as well use it like bleach if its effective for that.

suppose

ilaughlast said:
do you use it to clean between runs too at higher concentrations? seems like it could work for that too and to buy a bag id think youd have enough for every clone made on the west coast. lots around might as well use it like bleach if its effective for that.

I haven't used the pool shock for cleaning between cycles, but it must work great!

EZ-Clone recommends 2 cups (480 mL) of bleach (~6% Sodium Hypochlorite).

Equation 1:
1 cup = 240 mL
2 cups x 240 = 480 mL

Equation 2:
6% = 6 g/100 mL x (1000 ml/1 L) x 1 (g/ 1000 mg) = 60,000 ppm (mg/L)

Equation 3:
(note: they recommend filling the rez to the lip of the lid ), so..
20 gal x 3.8 L/gal = 76 L/fill up.

Equation 4:
76 liter x (1000 mL/L) = 76,000 mL

76,000 ml rez/ 480 mL Bleach = 158.333 fold dilution of 60,000 ppm

Equation 5:

60,000 ppm / (158.3333 fold dilution) = 379 ppm NaClO

NOTE 1: Sodium's Molecular Weight (mw): 23 g/mol

NOTE 2: Chlorine + Oxygen mw = 35.5 g/mol + 16 g/mol = 51.5 g/mol is the molecular weight of ClO (hypochlorite)

NOTE 3: MW Sodium Hypochlorite = 23 + 51.5 = 74.5 g/mol

So, finally, the molar ratio of hypochlorite (ClO) to Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO):

51.5 g/mol ClO) / (74.5 g/mol NaClO) = .69 = ~.7

So
379 ppm NaClO * 0.69 = 261.5 ppm ClO

----------------------------------------------------------

Ok, ignore all the above, here's the answer, unless I f*cked up somewhere:

Pool Shock is 70% free ClO.

[261.5 mg/L * 3.8 L/gal * 20 gal / (0.7 g ClO/g Shock)] * 1 g/1000 mg = 28.4 grams of pool shock that is 70% free chlorine to sterilize your rez.

I think I did that the hard way, but, either way, there's your answer.

30 grams of pool shock will sterilize your systems. Run it for 20 min and ensure you manifold is submerged.

ilaughlast · Jun 3, 2014

CocoCola said:
I would guess, yes, but bleach is cheap, also.

suppose

I haven't used the pool shock for cleaning between cycles, but it must work great!

EZ-Clone recommends 2 cups (480 mL) of bleach (~6% Sodium Hypochlorite).

Equation 1:
1 cup = 240 mL
2 cups x 240 = 480 mL

Equation 2:
6% = 6 g/100 mL x (1000 ml/1 L) x 1 (g/ 1000 mg) = 60,000 ppm (mg/L)

Equation 3:
(note: they recommend filling the rez to the lip of the lid ), so..
20 gal x 3.8 L/gal = 76 L/fill up.

Equation 4:
76 liter x (1000 mL/L) = 76,000 mL

76,000 ml rez/ 480 mL Bleach = 158.333 fold dilution of 60,000 ppm

Equation 5:

60,000 ppm / (158.3333 fold dilution) = 379 ppm NaClO

NOTE 1: Sodium's Molecular Weight (mw): 23 g/mol

NOTE 2: Chlorine + Oxygen mw = 35.5 g/mol + 16 g/mol = 51.5 g/mol is the molecular weight of ClO (hypochlorite)

NOTE 3: MW Sodium Hypochlorite = 23 + 51.5 = 74.5 g/mol

So, finally, the molar ratio of hypochlorite (ClO) to Sodium Hypochlorite (NaClO):

51.5 g/mol ClO) / (74.5 g/mol NaClO) = .69 = ~.7

So
379 ppm NaClO * 0.69 = 261.5 ppm ClO

----------------------------------------------------------

Ok, ignore all the above, here's the answer, unless I f*cked up somewhere:

Pool Shock is 70% free ClO.

[261.5 mg/L * 3.8 L/gal * 20 gal / (0.7 g ClO/g Shock)] * 1 g/1000 mg = 28.4 grams of pool shock that is 70% free chlorine to sterilize your rez.

I think I did that the hard way, but, either way, there's your answer.

30 grams of pool shock will sterilize your systems. Run it for 20 min and ensure you manifold is submerged.

a gram and a half of pool shock per gal. thanks!!!!!

CocoCola · Jun 3, 2014

ilaughlast said:
a gram and a half of pool shock per gal. thanks!!!!!

Yes, but only for pool shock that is 70% free hypochlorite. It's a bit higher for the lower strength bags of shock.

DO IT · Jun 23, 2014

Don't over think it. In between cuts wash with 50/50 bleach and water. Keep your water temp 65* and use 60ml power clone. These are my last cuts 50% gifted unknown strain and 50% LAD.

My ez clone officially sucks

My ez clone officially sucks

CocoCola

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

CocoCola

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

CocoCola

CocoCola

indonesia

bongobongo

KiLoEleMeNt

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

KiLoEleMeNt

CocoCola

CocoCola

ilaughlast

CocoCola

ilaughlast

CocoCola

ilaughlast

CocoCola

DO IT

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My ez clone officially sucks

My ez clone officially sucks

CocoCola

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

CocoCola

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

CocoCola

CocoCola

indonesia

bongobongo

KiLoEleMeNt

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

KiLoEleMeNt

CocoCola

CocoCola

ilaughlast

CocoCola

ilaughlast

CocoCola

ilaughlast

CocoCola

DO IT

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