Our World

[squiggly]

Squig , all due respect. The series of shots Oswald allegedly fired is *impossible* with the designated 6.5 Manlicher carcano. You are aware that they were sold in the back of outdoor mags of the era for 16.95 to 20 bucks? J U N K.............never seen one that wasn't , 6.5 x 52 isn't a bad caliber but the platform is ( again) J U N K.

Quoting this again to point out that you have made me interested enough to inquire into this further. It'd be unfair of me in a logical debate to not admit that.

I was actually trained to shoot by a ballistics expert. I'm a card carrying member of the NRA and have actually participated in multiple qualification programs for various weapons. I've achieved sharpshooter rating (differing levels) with a variety of rifles, expert rating with a variety of handguns, and distinguished expert with a 30 ot 6, and .22 rimfire colt semi-auto.

I know a bit about this crap myself--but not enough to say anything about the particular rifle you're talking about. I can't help by wonder to myself if I could've made the shot. I've made some crazy shots in my time (shooting a wire in one shot at 300+ yds), and so it's hard for me to not see plausibility here--but I definitely plan to follow up with some people I trust to offer an expert opinion here.

 

[dirk d]

my point is simply to open people's mind squiggly. I am a direct result of American Foreign Policy. Do i believe everything google and youtube have??? come on now squiggly. You act like The government would never do anything against its own citizens. lol.

Personally i dont care if anyone is out to get me or not. I just make sure im protected. As far as im concerned close minded indivuals and groups can keep their heads in the ground. Eat your poisoned food, drink your genetically modified high fructose corn sugar and die a cancer filled death. Be a good citizen now! that is your choice.

my choice is to open my eyes to the corruption and lies of big corporations that have taken over our government. And frankly i could give a shit if you are not convinced. This is not a court of law just a discussion about Our World.

There is so much more than just 9/11. Our Constitution is under attack and people like you squiggly don't even care. Why don't you research more about our founding fathers and what THEY believed in. Then tell me who is the one that is unAmerican.

 

[bckwht]

my point is simply to open people's mind squiggly. I am a direct result of American Foreign Policy. Do i believe everything google and youtube have??? come on now squiggly. You act like The government would never do anything against its own citizens. lol.

Personally i dont care if anyone is out to get me or not. I just make sure im protected. As far as im concerned close minded indivuals and groups can keep their heads in the ground. Eat your poisoned food, drink your genetically modified high fructose corn sugar and die a cancer filled death. Be a good citizen now! that is your choice.

my choice is to open my eyes to the corruption and lies of big corporations that have taken over our government. And frankly i could give a shit if you are not convinced. This is not a court of law just a discussion about Our World.

There is so much more than just 9/11. Our Constitution is under attack and people like you squiggly don't even care. Why don't you research more about our founding fathers and what THEY believed in. Then tell me who is the one that is unAmerican.



couldnt have said it any better ^^^^^

 

[caregiverken]

...
...
There is so much more than just 9/11. Our Constitution is under attack and people like you squiggly don't even care. Why don't you research more about our founding fathers and what THEY believed in. Then tell me who is the one that is unAmerican.

couldnt have said it any better ^^^^^

Really all that needs to be said to Squiggly

Great post Dirk!

 

[squiggly]

Oh well, your argument works in both directions.

I could give a damn if you're convinced either. You're putting words in my mouth to say I'd believe that the government wouldn't do anything against its citizens. I would only say that its not the overarching intention. Something is getting lost in translation, and that should be everyone's focus. Not some big unknown fear that even you can't put your finger on. If you could, you'd be fine with this being a court of law because you'd have easily accessible to you everything that you'd need to make a strong case.

You have a case and I never said you didn't--it's just that you don't have a strong one. Who is less likely to end up with egg on his face, a man who deals in absolutes or one who asks questions every day?

I'm sorry that the politicians haven't convinced you that they know what's right at every turn and always choose to embrace it--but you'll forgive me if I don't give you the benefit of the doubt on this either. I argue that its not "the government" or "the rich", but rather humans in general who can't always translate their good intent into something positive. Both of us here included.

The only thing I remain convinced of is that neither of us really know the answer. I feel like my positivity rests on the idea that I'm not sure if it can be made to work out or not. There is uncertainty. What I am sure is that you don't know whether or not it will. I don't claim that reality doesn't suck--but sometimes optimism is the right medicine rather than being convinced its all a wicked conspiracy perpetrated against the sheeple.

People have been tooting this same horn for hundreds of years and where has it gotten us? You're just a cog in the ever-turning wheel yourself, never changing anything--as big a part of a problem as anyone for the solutions you fail to offer and bring to fruition. You're no more special than I if it really is as you say, nothing you'll ever say or do will ring throughout history and change a thing.

That's the world you portray. I portray one where it might be that way, but instead of being convinced of it and consumed by it--we try to put a stop to it. It won't come quickly or from one thing, to make a difference takes a lifetime of decisions. If it hasn't been made clear to you by now, ringing the conspiracy bell isn't only unhelpful (and comprised of almost exclusively guesswork)--it actually discredits you and essentially takes you out of the game. If you really believed there is a conspiracy--you're playing right into its perpetrators hands by failing to respect it and treat it like the beast it is.

You might think you're special and that you're rebelling against a system of "sheeple"--but I'd argue that perhaps its people like you who are so convinced its not worth it who have let the government fall into the shitter by not using your brains to look at the actual decisions you do have rather than bitching about how they aren't really decisions, or about other decisions you'd like to make, or about how it's all just some wicked setup by the man.

If you're so certain you've proven it is--then I'd like to see the proof. If instead of being certain that you've proven it you are convinced that its the case--then I'd ask you not to criticize me for being convinced of something different (admittedly without proof). I feel like that's only fair--and it's even a further incorrect assumption to say that I should read about the founding fathers. I've read about them (and their words) many times over--I'm actually a bit of a nerd about it. I'm well aware that shit hasn't gone as they planned. This just goes to point out the crux of my argument again, though--that people don't always get it right.

Just who do you purport yourself to be that you've got some edge on having it all figured out over myself or them. You are fallible like the rest of us--and your theories and opinions have every likelihood of being fringe bullshit crazy as mine do.

This is why people get so heated about this, myself included. No matter what you do (vote, don't vote) you make a decision one way or the other--and its a very complex decision. There are many questions that are unanswered about what will happen before we make the decision. As a mean for compensating for our not being sure about everything--we form strong opinions and act as though we're some authority.

I have bad news for you though, this is a testable and controllable human response. It is another example of the predictable irrationality of our species--and none of us are excluded from it. It is what you'd call a coping mechanism.

Yours just happens to come out sounding a helluva lot crazier and far-fetched than mine (according to most people--I'm not intending to make a judgment here)--and who's to say if you're right or wrong. Not me. I just think you're wrong and crazy--can you blame me.

You offer very little in the way of proof and to my mind, the way things are "supposedly" seems a lot more likely to me. I really stick by the notion that we don't need a conspiracy for all of these shitty things to come together. Having shitty people around is enough to cause the perfect storm, and we've done it. We've played into our own limitations as humans and we're blind to it as a result of those same limitations. It's a sad cycle--and it's one that I claim should be the focus of all arguments such as this one.

You'll forgive me if I don't clap my hands and say bravo to you for having one too many high-powered conspiratorial stories. Fantastic stories are for the movies in general. Real life works out to be much more boring than this in most instances if you ask me.

Only 30-40% of us even vote. What does that tell you? Are we really all sheeple--or is the alternative explanation that perhaps the 60% of the people missing from the argument, who've decided we're all sheeple, are actually a huge endemic part of the problem?

It's clear you don't do NOTHING when you don't vote--you don't vote when you don't vote. That's an input to the system, and from what we know it's actually a larger input than the voting input.

Using your own logic--who's the sheeple now?

You're a part of perpetuating the same exact system you think you aren't a part of, and you tell me that I can't see what's really happening. Interesting enough--but I'm going to go ahead and stick with the thing that I think, you know, like a person would.

 

[dirk d]

Squiggly i like you. you are clearly a very intelligent person. Now i understand you better. You are very young. You have passion in you. That i can admire. As you get older things will become clearer to you about this world. (come back to this thread in 15 years)

Who was it that said it best "War is old men sending young men to die to protect their $$$." You haven't lived long enough to understand the nature of man. Wisdom is granted only by experiencing the positive and negative of something. Unfortunately it takes a lifetime of making mistakes and making more mistakes to understand this.

I was never much of a voter to be honest. I figured what's the point??? But I was wrong. There is a point and every voice needs to speak up. Are your views wrong or my views right?? No everyone is entitled to their views. But views are generally created by your circumstance in life.

I remember when i was a bit younger than you and the world seemed like such a promising world. Full of hope and love. but as i grew older i realized this was just a fantasy. However this last decade has really sped up the negative in our country.

Death no longer scares me. I worry about the future generations that will face a lifetime of pain. I don't wish pain on anyone whether they are from the USA or a foreign country. Tell me squiggly who is your favorite founding father now that we know you are a self proclaimed "nerd".

 

[bckwht]

am i the only person who saw all the caucus fraud going on. I believe in maine, there was a handful of relatively larger cities or counties that actually voted yet none of them were counted. This happend in a handful of states this year, and i think it was basically to show us that ron paul aint goin to the top no matter how many votes go his way. Does anyone really think its so crazy that maybe one of those rich ass hell previous big dogs of BAIN capital (MITT ROMNEY) doesnt have somebody that could toss a couple hundo thousand at a state to maybe make sure some of the votes go his way?? it honestly sounds like the easiest obstacle of all time.

you can try and turn this around and say all the people who are against our gov (bc they are fucking the constitution in the asshole) just make up theories on why we have no rights or control or power as citizens anymore but honestly the more squiggly types, the better it makes our side of the arguement look..i dont get caught up in all the middle bullshit like you talk about all the different ballistic scenarious or whatever bc if you open your eyes for 2 seconds, regardless of your shooting skills, theres no person that could pull that shot off with the amount of pressure he had on him (you miss and your dead, not to mention everyone is watching and your about to do the biggest thing in recent history) dont care who you are, there is pressure no matter shooting a foul shot or assassinating someone.

im not aiming this at you squiggly or attacking you, its just everytime i read a post of yours it brings back old thoughts ive had.

this is a thought ive had for quite a while on this topic. here goes

IF you were crazy enough to try and assinate the president in front of all those people, I personally feel like that person would be proud of pulling that off and seem more like charles manson to the media i.e. brag like a mofo and say you dont give a shit blah blah but instead, every single person tied to the jfk shooting was almost instantly killed. How bout the bar owner (i think, possilby night club) that tried exposing some people invloved? Story goes that as he was being takin in, they have him saying " i will die of cancer very soon" or something to that effect and who coulda guessed it, HE DIED OF CANCER months later in prison. HE also said they injected him.

AND what about LBJ completely reversing the decisions that got JFK killed immediately? seems like theres about a million questions they wont and cannot answer. KINDA like the fed reserve and how they let nobody at all in that fucking building and cannot be audited or even investigated in the slightest.

LAST Comment - Federal reserve is privately owned money printing factory that owns damn near the world and its governments. Then a young man comes in and calls there shit out, tells them to fuck off and we are going to gold. BOOM they say shut the fuck up bitch. and then they come up with the most unrealistic investigation of all time, second to 9/11 only because they left an entire building out of the report (RED FLAG). why was thermite in the ground floors of the buildings again ?? someone please answer that for me

 

[dirk d]

its easy to look back at the JFK assasination. LBJ told the military complex that if they got rid of JFK that he would bring them war. Who benefits from war?? Industrial Military Complex. Cant have 761 bases around the world if you don't have lots of wars. Easiest way to make someone do what they don't want to is to kill them. Look at his brother Robert. same shit.

btw Vietnam was really a major threat against the security of America. How many young men with their lives ahead of them died in some god awful jungle halfway across the world?? And how many died due to cancer from all the shit the military sprayed in that country. Forget about the vietnamese that died. they don't matter to America.

another undeclared war by congress

 

[bckwht]

i posted something else awhile back about this but i read somewhere that HONEYWELL has a huge military contract so look at all these harmless companies that have millions or billions of reasons (cash money) to push for war. They probably lobby the biggest media companies..wait a minute...the same people that control the majority stock in literally all fortune five hundred companies are the same people that run major media networks...Weiiirrrrdddd how it all comes together

EVERYONE in denial needs to right now go to the search and type in "who really controls the world" which is a thread done by a very knowledgable farmer- KOLAH

just read the entire post he made and if you are still in denial, well i hate to say it but you are as dumb as the those religion people who kill themselves inthe name of a fictional sky god (hehe)

 

[dirk d]

“We as a group now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul

 

[squiggly]

am i the only person who saw all the caucus fraud going on. I believe in maine, there was a handful of relatively larger cities or counties that actually voted yet none of them were counted. This happend in a handful of states this year, and i think it was basically to show us that ron paul aint goin to the top no matter how many votes go his way.

Ackshully, yes--I did see this, and it was super alarming to me. This was all on public record and that to me constitutes proof. I don't look at this as a "theory". This is some shit that went down.

Who knows if it was one dude, or two dudes, or a group of super rich dudes all interested in the same thing, but we can see the actual confirmation that it happened. I don't know categorically that it was against Ron Paul primarily--but it absolutely looked to me like this, and I say that being a non-supporter of Ron Paul (I like-ish the guy, though).

I totally don't believe that everything is on the up and up, that would be naive (as some would argue I am). What I believe is that we actually don't have to just sit here and wait for it to blow up (if its not already).

We have the right and ability to stop it underwritten in the constitution, and the Tea Party proved it--even though saying that just made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

All I'm suggesting is that the democratic party represents a better "springboard" for a similar movement than did the republican party. People who think we're sheeple are sheeple-ing themselves by default by letting the crazies springboard "revolutions".

I think if you get a bunch of guys who believe in the right thing (even if the symbol of it is corrupt) it serves as a better alternative to watching a large proportion of what happens in the short term be dictated by a bunch of crazies.

These views are interesting and maybe even represent reality sometimes (conspiracy theories)--but there's nothing there to believe in. Right now the only thing anyone can actually believe in is the republican party. There are plenty of nut baskets who are all-in, heads up, when it comes to the GOP (and to a lesser but not insignificant extent the Tea Party).

Not so much for anyone else. There is no centric message that is held to. If you look back in history it is for the the people to stand up and do something. Not by force but by exercising our constitutionally underwritten right to create a new party for the people and by the people. Where in sam hell do any of you think the democratic party came from?

They actually brought a ton of good things with them when they first came around, because they had the peoples intentions driving them to the top. We banded together and we made shit happen. I'm just saying we need to do it again, and all the propaganda and fear mongering doesn't help force the issue. I think people are "sheeple" but not because they're not in on the conspiracy. Because they have a huge amount of power in this country and they dash it to the rocks each day by diving themselves, and making everything about these divisive and unprovable unwinnable arguments.

If there's any conspiracy it's one against ourselves to take the future we are entitled to and which is ultimately within our grasp should we desire and design to take it. Americans are no longer reaching for the golden ring, and it's no surprise they can't it get. There is no conspiracy. If we band together peacefully, we can take control--it's that simple. Saying otherwise only perpetuates the idea that we don't have power, and lengthens the time between now and the time when we will inevitably take it from these broken parties.

If you think repubs and democrats are the last party that are going to run america--you've lost it. History tells us a million times over in much older countries that this isn't the case.

FOR THE MOMENT, we still have a constitutionally guaranteed right to take control of our country should we put our differences aside and design to change the process and scope of government. I think talking about anything but that will prove to have been a mistake should the moment come that we no longer have that right.

I say something is coming true and you say it's true already--I'm just asking you to humor me. If you plan to keep breathing, you might as well--it's better than giving up.

 

[squiggly]

why was thermite in the ground floors of the buildings again ?? someone please answer that for me

Now you're in my sandbox. The question isn't why isn't it. The question is why isn't it--and can you prove it shouldn't be there?

Do you know what thermite is, and how one might make it (or nanoparticles of it<-----important)?

I'll wait.

I'll wager you don't have a full battery of chemical understanding such that you can devise and derive all possible sources of thermite (a fairly simply thing, as it were). I can categorically guarantee for you that the base materials needed to produce thermite are in huge quantities in a building. Add a fire and jet fuel and random distribution of a ton of shit and you probably have 6 million possible routes (from starting materials) to thermite.

Think of ground zero as a bigass reaction flask with a little bit of everything in it and a fire pumping over and in it (with a huge amount of accelerant).

 

[dirk d]

The Iranian Pain

 

[bckwht]

Nice on the thermite. I just think its odd that supporting beams were cut perfectly at the correct angles to bring those buildings down in controlled manner. Also I vaguely remember something about jet fuel not being able to burn at the temps they said it did, even under the most controlled environment

Seems to me these are all things that should have been coverEd in that 10000 page report. In the end, it was the best way to secure our foothold on controlling middle east oil supply. Iranian pipeline is some good reading

 

[dirk d]

this is a great watch as well

 

[deep buddy]

here is a simple fact for you, the people who started this country and who are still running it think that north america is atlantis... yeah atlantis, and they very well may be right. in the last 10 years more info has come to light about the past inhabitants of this country. a quick ? for all of you.. what do you really know about the native american's? yet we have been excavating cahokia, the burial mounds in the n.w., anasazi/hopi ruins, lets just say they know alot and arent sharing what they know. what are they trying to hide from us? our true divine history? hundreds of thousands of years of tracking time via astral positioning and we base our calender off of jesus's birth, HA! i can tell you one thing for damn sure IT IS NOT 2012! the dark ages can barley be proven, events that have been known will be "predicted" oldest trick in the book. if you want to know what this country is really about look into the ritual of the game or three children, one watches, one kills , one dies, ALL ARE AFFECTED!

 

[squiggly]

Nice on the thermite. I just think its odd that supporting beams were cut perfectly at the correct angles to bring those buildings down in controlled manner. Also I vaguely remember something about jet fuel not being able to burn at the temps they said it did, even under the most controlled environment

Seems to me these are all things that should have been coverEd in that 10000 page report. In the end, it was the best way to secure our foothold on controlling middle east oil supply. Iranian pipeline is some good reading

While it may be true they can't replicate it in a controlled environment--another thing they can't replicate in a controlled environment is a jet full of jet fuel crashing into the world trade center.

We don't have a model for that to be honest--no one really has the expertise to say whether or not what we saw looked fishy, and most of the people who approach such expertise agree that most of what was observed is perfectly feasible. This is just the school of thought I come from--and if you really do your reading it's probably the one with the most logical support (papers from experts) for it.

I think saying they government owns them all is pretty paranoid and doesn't represent reality. How many of us are in on it, where do you draw the line? I'm a scientist, I just gave some sense-based analysis on the thermite theory. Has the government bought me?

The answer is no, of course :)

 

[dirk d]

Here's a great read on WTC 7 about its "freefall". This is the biggest question for me. How can a building not hit by basically anything free fall to its destruction???

 

[squiggly]

Burden of proof lies on the opposite side in moment of uncertainty (if we're doing a scientific--ergo physics--analysis). That is to say because such a big building hasn't fallen down next to one--and because the building which fell can't be fully inspected for structural integrity and things of that nature--it's basically impossible to say that its not possible for this to happen. I imagine the towers falling caused a pretty big boom, maybe it shifted something--maybe the building wasn't up to code already.

I'm betting you're not sure, I'm definitely not.

I'm not saying it didn't happen--I'm saying prove it, it doesn't work in the opposite direction.

You can't prove something by speculating on it--you need evidence. It's like everything else--we don't have a model for this, it's not possible for us to rule anything out.

 

[deep buddy]

Burden of proof lies on the opposite side in moment of uncertainty (if we're doing a scientific--ergo physics--analysis). That is to say because such a big building hasn't fallen down next to one--and because the building which fell can't be fully inspected for structural integrity and things of that nature--it's basically impossible to say that its not possible for this to happen. I imagine the towers falling caused a pretty big boom, maybe it shifted something--maybe the building wasn't up to code already.

I'm betting you're not sure, I'm definitely not.

I'm not saying it didn't happen--I'm saying prove it, it doesn't work in the opposite direction.

You can't prove something by speculating on it--you need evidence. It's like everything else--we don't have a model for this, it's not possible for us to rule anything out.

i will draw attention to my earlier comment about the game of three children. some killed , some died , WE ALL WATCHED!

some things dont need to be proven , you just know when your getting fucked.