keeerriist on a crutch , someone start a prepper type thread and I'll address some things. If you can't talk about it publicly then why ask privately? And do we really need another tangent in this thread?

Food for thought...............true survivalism is *** surviving*** , not indulging your fantasies from call of Duty or whatever.............look to what is going to FEED you and SHELTER you.

And yeah I'm a " gun nut"........so what? Beyond the FACT that maybe ya oughta listen when I tell you that the FIRST firearm you should buy if you don't have one is a .22 rifle , which will ***inargueably*** do more to feed you , store more ammo in less space cheaper , produce less noise etc.etc. than ANY other firearm...........PERIOD.

That's your *first* purchase firearms wise. Especially in the Lower 48. I'm tired of hearing about all the Quasi-Military weaponry and the fantasies surrounding it. And finicky Bench rifles are fine.............on the bench , and I own enough of 'em to know.

And while I'm gigging Sacred Cows , Bear Grylls is a pussy with about zero actual survival skills , Les Stroud is a bit better but still has his head thoroughly up his ass about Cold Country.

And another one that's popular with the PETA/Vegan/ LiberalBirkenstock crowd.......forget the Bear Spray........ANY Bear close enough to be hit by it should have been DEAD 20 feet ago. Don't even bother with an attempt to argue that one , I still have a cabin up off Larsens Bay and a great deal of Bush experience in other areas of the North and frankly most folks in the Lower 48 have NO idea about Bears and co-existing with the big bastards.

Gold and Silver.ROTFLMAO...............as " trade goods"? Puuuullllleeeeaaassse. Think about what a 2lb can of coffee would be worth in barter , a bottle of vitamins , a bottle of decent Scotch............seeds of ANY type , extra ammunition , fishing equipment etc.etc.

Precious metals and fiat currency would become essentially *worthless* in the event of a crash.

Acquire the OLD skills , how many of y'all can cut and beat out a servicable knife from a leaf spring? Dry meat and fish? Make Pemmican? Properly fell a tree and plank it out , hell how many folks here even know what a " Misery Whip" is any more?

And yet another Sacred Cow................LOSE the freaking GPS.......you will anyway if there is no power. Learn how to orienteer and use a compass , learn the skies so you'll know where you are.

And don't subscribe to the bullshit myths about where to find water in the Desert , you start in on that Barrel cactus and drinking the exudate and you'll give yourself Oaxalic acid poisoning , you're not likely to die but the cramps will make you wish you were dead.

Now if someone else wants to start a thread on this crap , fine , I t'ain't addressing it further in this one , I've likely pissed off enough folks about it with this diatribe as it is.

Bluenote said:

The problem being that it IS an endemic , indeed a systemic problem. What makes you think that the well known examples I cite are the only ones.

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What should make me believe that they aren't is a better question.

I'm sure you could name off lots of stuff all day--but individual cases are always going to be individual cases. I personally don't believe you'll ever be able to logically prove that an overarching conspiracy is at hand--individual and isolated experiences and moments a conspiracy do not make. That is just my own personal belief, ya know?

In terms of being a prepper--I think it might be a little paranoid, but at the same time there is absolutely nothing to suggest that everything will be stable forever--much the same way there isn't anything to concretely suggest that it won't be.

I'd be a total hypocrite to call you crazy for it when I believe what I believe with exactly the same amount of proof or evidence.

I don't know that I'd ever start storing food and things of that nature except to save money--but I was raised from a little boy to always have weapons stocked. Hasn't been hard to accomplish as I've had plenty passed down to me.

I will say that this does shed a little light on where you're coming from--and where exactly it is that you and I hit the fork in the road.

I believe going down that path requires one to really have given up--which I don't blame you for having done (on government, that is). I just would like to protect future generations of Americans from having to stock up on the 3 B's if I'm able--that includes my children and my children's children.

I refuse to just give up now and pretend there's no other recourse when I believe that there is.

I am an outdoorsman, and was raised to be able to live off of the land--so I'm confident in my ability to do this should I really need to. I just don't believe that time has yet come.

As always, good points though--just wanna make it clear I was not the dude in Bluenote's mailbox (technically I don't believe we're supposed to discuss private messages on the board according to the TOS--just for a heads up).

squiggly said:

What should make me believe that they aren't is a better question.
************
I'm sure you could name off lots of stuff all day--but individual cases are always going to be individual cases. I personally don't believe you'll ever be able to logically prove that an overarching conspiracy is at hand--individual and isolated experiences and moments a conspiracy do not make. That is just my own personal belief, ya know?**********

In terms of being a prepper--I think it might be a little paranoid, but at the same time there is absolutely nothing to suggest that everything will be stable forever--much the same way there isn't anything to concretely suggest that it won't be.

I'd be a total hypocrite to call you crazy for it when I believe what I believe with exactly the same amount of proof or evidence.

I don't know that I'd ever start storing food and things of that nature except to save money--but I was raised from a little boy to always have weapons stocked. Hasn't been hard to accomplish as I've had plenty passed down to me.

I will say that this does shed a little light on where you're coming from--and where exactly it is that you and I hit the fork in the road.

I believe going down that path requires one to really have given up--which I don't blame you for having done (on government, that is). I just would like to protect future generations of Americans from having to stock up on the 3 B's if I'm able--that includes my children and my children's children.

I refuse to just give up now and pretend there's no other recourse when I believe that there is.

I am an outdoorsman, and was raised to be able to live off of the land--so I'm confident in my ability to do this should I really need to. I just don't believe that time has yet come.

As always, good points though--just wanna make it clear I was not the dude in Bluenote's mailbox (technically I don't believe we're supposed to discuss private messages on the board according to the TOS--just for a heads up).

Click to expand...

The highlighted paragraph illustrates your disconnect again , and a certain naivete. What exactly makes you think that it would be a SINGLE ' overarching conspiracy"? Sorry it's not that simplistic. It's a spiders web of deceit and corruption reaching FAR back in history.

Hey what will you say when the Sedition Act of '18 again rears it's ugly head?


And quit making assumptions about me that are based on the Liberal propaganda you've been fed , " given up" my ass. Do I SOUND like I've given up? Or like many others do I sound like I'm going to hunker down and attempt to SURVIVE the bullshit if it does come , so as to be around to help rebuild from the frigging rubble.

Those " next generations" won't survive unless WE survive.

Lets put something else to rest , you WON'T live entirely " off the land" , that's a fantasy , there will *always* be something you can't make , unless you wish to degrade all the way back to the Stone Age................look I acquired the skill of knapping Flint into serviceable form.............a modern Broadhead is one HELL of a lot better and more efficient , get my drift? If you have to put up ten cords of wood for the winter a chainsaw cuts your labor and time by 75%...........etc.etc.

I've seen a number of folks " living Bush" fantasies evaporate when they realise they have to Huck that stuff in on foot 20 miles or better , or get it all in via chopper or floatplane.

And then there are of course the ones who make it through the first summer , they even make it through the first Winter.........come Spring breakup they're GONE never to return.

As regards food storage , you might wish to reconsider that one , ask those of us who were in the Bay Area in Oct '89 about the stores and how long the stocks lasted , ask how people behaved.

" Civilisation" is a thin veneer over the animal that is Man.

Actually I don't believe that--and I'm glad you don't either. That was sort of my point.

I get it that the world is going to shit as a result of the greed and wrongdoing of many men. It's just to me that it's not at all a conspiracy--but rather human nature which is the cause.

I look at America as a system which we've set up that will cause this to endemically happen regardless of what inputs we give the system.

I don't necessarily think it will sink the country--but I know it is eroding it.

What I meant by being able to live off the land--is having those needs met which I can, and understanding how to be resourceful to find the rest. The area I'm in is not separated by these large swaths of land. I am in a very population dense area--if I really need to grab shit in the event of something popping off, it will get grabbed--of that you can be sure.

That 30 ot 6 (along with 30 of his buddies and my friends carrying them) will be coming to Sam's club with me if we get to this point.

To answer your question--yes it does sound to me like you've given up.

You're talking survival rather than revolution. I don't think you can give up any further than than except to give up your life. I don't suggest you'll be giving it up easily or that you've no intentions of surviving. I'm saying that suggesting survival of the fittest is the next inevitable step is out of touch with the way I believe things currently are.

I actually have a helluva lot of things you'd need if shit hit the fan. Essentially the only thing I'm missing is an ass-ton of food, and a surgeon. So it's not that I'm unprepared--I just don't think the alarm should be raised just yet. I think there's still a path back.

You and I might disagree here--and I assure you that if that's the case that we always will.

You'll just have to accept that I'm going to die in the government-created-apocalypse. Sorry dude, but I just disagree with you--that's the skinny of it.

I'm not naive, I'm not stupid, I'm not too young. I understand perfectly what your point is and why you make it--I just fervently disagree with you.

I have plenty of good reasons to do this--and you don't want to accept them because it could mean you've been wrong all this time. It would open up the possibility that you too are fallible--that you may have made a mistake.

I fully accept that I could be wrong, and that it might fuck me over (as you suggest). Can you accept that perhaps I'm right? Or are you fairly sure you've got it pretty well pegged?

I'm sure it's the latter, and that's reasonable. Just realize that my position is also reasonable for the exact same reason.

Quoted from the Squiggly: "I actually have a helluva lot of things you'd need if shit hit the fan. Essentially the only thing I'm missing is an ass-ton of food, and a surgeon. So it's not that I'm unprepared--I just don't think the alarm should be raised just yet. I think there's still a path back."
The type of food that stays good forever is the last kind of foods I'd want, if the shit hit the fan I'd be maneuvering piles of poop and other items to break down into acceptable forms of food for the plants as nature does every day and has for some time. I'd be growing so much fruit and greens and canning it myself, as a pot, water and fire to boil it will be easy as pie! Dried meats and the occasional animal catch would be the means of living if shit really hit the fan. Fuck what you can buy in a store, nothing of quality in a food store will stay good. Life feeds on life, I could muster enough kills with a slingshot and fishing pole and gather/grow the rest. The only thing worth prepping is seeds....
Would be funny to see the kids of today go without any device that needs to be plugged in to recharge...they might get their hands dirty and feet wet...lol
I'd welcome a power outage forever, would be interesting to see people lose it without their Iphone...lmao

just wanted to throw up a post outside of you two...lol

You're still missing it Squig. And you brought the word up not I , now rol that word around in your head for a while and get your mind around it , 'cause it's REAL easy to *talk* the word " Revolution " , it's a bit harder to be around to take part in it. And Idealistic bullshit that only leads to one's own *martyrdom* serves NO purpose for any but the Powers That Be.

Perhaps some research into Revolutions and guerrilla theatre war in the modern era is in order on your part.Along with small unit tactics.

You talk of preserving the upcoming generation , how will you do so if you are D E A D. Sure I live by the old Japanese saying I quoted , that said i t'ain't about to just toss my life away.

Look *if* , and yeah it's a big if the theoretical bubble went up it would be chaotic for quite some time , best to hunker down and see what sorts out and exactly who the " enemy" might be.

Read Musashi and Sun Tzsu for reference.Might be enlightening ( pardon the oblique pun please)...........

baba G said:

Quoted from the Squiggly: "I actually have a helluva lot of things you'd need if shit hit the fan. Essentially the only thing I'm missing is an ass-ton of food, and a surgeon. So it's not that I'm unprepared--I just don't think the alarm should be raised just yet. I think there's still a path back."
The type of food that stays good forever is the last kind of foods I'd want, if the shit hit the fan I'd be maneuvering piles of poop and other items to break down into acceptable forms of food for the plants as nature does every day and has for some time. I'd be growing so much fruit and greens and canning it myself, as a pot, water and fire to boil it will be easy as pie! Dried meats and the occasional animal catch would be the means of living if shit really hit the fan. Fuck what you can buy in a store, nothing of quality in a food store will stay good. Life feeds on life, I could muster enough kills with a slingshot and fishing pole and gather/grow the rest. The only thing worth prepping is seeds....
Would be funny to see the kids of today go without any device that needs to be plugged in to recharge...they might get their hands dirty and feet wet...lol
I'd welcome a power outage forever, would be interesting to see people lose it without their Iphone...lmao

just wanted to throw up a post outside of you two...lol

Click to expand...

Great plan for a long term shelter in place " gulch" , small farmstead that operates in symbiosis with itself.

Where you are in error though is that " the only thing worth prepping is seeds" , think that through a bit.

I don't plan on shooting people or animals, I don't need that much meat in my diet. I don't know what else I'd prep but books and things of that like. Pictures maybe...
The odds of getting shot go down dramatically when you don't arm yourself. Instead I'd offer skills for my life being saved...I'd be happiest working with the land, regardless of whom is reaping rewards off my work...
But that was a short sighted statment no doubt that I made, was baked and noticing you two taking up all this posting space...lol

there are more than enough people stockpiling weapons in my neck of the woods, they could shoot people while I mingle with the plants and bees in the sunlight...

baba G said:

I don't plan on shooting people or animals, I don't need that much meat in my diet. I don't know what else I'd prep but books and things of that like. Pictures maybe...
The odds of getting shot go down dramatically when you don't arm yourself. Instead I'd offer skills for my life being saved...I'd be happiest working with the land, regardless of whom is reaping rewards off my work...
But that was a short sighted statment no doubt that I made, was baked and noticing you two taking up all this posting space...lol

there are more than enough people stockpiling weapons in my neck of the woods, they could shoot people while I mingle with the plants and bees in the sunlight...

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Disagree with you on the weapons aspect , especially on your odds completely unarmed in a socio-civil breakdown.

Keep in mind too that you have to support those crops and survive until they come in. And dependent on locale you will need more meat in your diet than you think , especially in cold climates where you will *DIE* without fat sources.

Look to your preps as regards water , without water there is NO life. And you cited a facet many folks forget , that being BOOKS and the preservation of knowledge. Field manuals , the Foxfire series , Plant and herb identification texts , alternative power texts.........and classic literature. These will become precious.

How much pf mankinds prior knowledge was lost in the burning of the Libraries of Thebes and Alexandria?????? Has it been recovered?

Depends where you live my friend. Water is rampant in some areas and very potable naturally. Some areas don't have cold winters, and many people can use wood for heat source and if your in an area where there is massive woods...
If you at the top of a ridge with people arming your area, why do I need my own gun? I have more too offer than holding a gun.
Some areas have a ton of meat when you consider eating smaller animals that are in great numbers...
I'd rather have fresh water than old bottled water....
I did mention books on my second post about this, as obviously they will be important.
Fresh water squirting out of the mountain and deer littering the area and fish so plentiful I can grab with my hands...that's what I'm faced with.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how or what to do if shit hits the fan. I don't know, my area of expertise is plants and all the things they can provide, warmth, shelter, food, shoes, clothing, entertainment, olfactory explosions, lil solar powered factories the plants are...

edit: If I need a gun, there are people that own over 40-60 guns themselves, they just don't have enough arms to hold them all, I can offer to hold one:D

baba G said:

Depends where you live my friend. Water is rampant in some areas and very potable naturally. Some areas don't have cold winters, and many people can use wood for heat source and if your in an area where there is massive woods...
If you at the top of a ridge with people arming your area, why do I need my own gun? I have more too offer than holding a gun.
Some areas have a ton of meat when you consider eating smaller animals that are in great numbers...
I'd rather have fresh water than old bottled water....
I did mention books on my second post about this, as obviously they will be important.
Fresh water squirting out of the mountain and deer littering the area and fish so plentiful I can grab with my hands...that's what I'm faced with.

Click to expand...

Oh we're in agreement , save on the firearms aspect. They've fed me in too many places and it's a lot easier to put a .22 through the brainpan than deadfall a deer. A firearm is nothing more than another *tool* in such circumstances.

Of course fresh water is crucial , you'd be surprised how many folks ignore water prep though

On the small animals , research the parasite and disease factors as regards the seasons.Keep in mind that sometimes game dries up or moves on once folks start depending on it for meat.

You're way ahead of a lot of folks in that you seem to have a cohesive plan. Many don't.

Water is key:cool:
It's easy when part of your plan is your daily life, providing wouldn't be so tough but dealing with crazies who have no idea how to fend for themselves but do have guns...that's the scare. And, when your the person who is one of the keepers of the plants you have the deadliest herbs at your convenience. They learn to depend on you as a full belly makes it easy to stay warm, luckily the majority of folks don't know much about food and what or how to eat much of it from scratch...makes my job really important, the lobbyiests will be one of the most worthless type of folks when shit hits the fan, they might become a new food staple...lol

baba G said:

Water is key:cool:
It's easy when part of your plan is your daily life, providing wouldn't be so tough but dealing with crazies who have no idea how to fend for themselves but do have guns...that's the scare. And, when your the person who is one of the keepers of the plants you have the deadliest herbs at your convenience. They learn to depend on you as a full belly makes it easy to stay warm, luckily the majority of folks don't know much about food and what or how to eat much of it from scratch...makes my job really important, the lobbyiests will be one of the most worthless type of folks when shit hits the fan, they might become a new food staple...lol

Click to expand...

Brings us to the " gulching" concept , symbiotic communities wherein everyone brings a specialty to the table , fairly self sufficient and self sustaining.

Hey have you researched Heirloom breed livestock? Might prove interesting.

As for folks knowing , there are many who would starve in the midst of plenty , or consume exactly the wrong thing ..example: Chris Mcandless.........

I'll look that up bluenote, the Heirloom breed livestock....
Thanks for the tip:D

baba G said:

but dealing with crazies who have no idea how to fend for themselves but do have guns...that's the scare.

Click to expand...

This is what I'm prepared for more than anything. I will find the necessities--it's protecting them which is the hard part.

@ Bluenote--as for taking part in a revolution and all that. I think I summed up where I believe that front lies and what not in the other thread. So I won't reply again here. I just disagree with you about what the necessary conditions are for revolution. I think it begins with people seeing realty instead of wrapping themselves up with religion as a warm blanket and defender against all attackers. It's a reality screen afflicting something like half of the population if not more.

You speak of endemic problems and I think this is the fundamental one. We differ here. This is another place where I'm firm, nothing you can say, yadda yadda yadda.

More relevant than ever............

Squig , would you *kindly* quit pushing the Christianity button with me? It should have become obvious to you that I am going out of my way *not* to upset Christian adherents present here. At the risk of sounding arrogant , I'm rather notorious in certain circles and have sent several of the " Big Names" packing in sputtering anger in open debate and just flat out stomped all over jackasses like Horvind in online debate. I know where the bodies are buried , I came from inside the system and certain items are a matter of a great deal of education and research with me.

Kindly don't bring that here and force my hand so as to prove a nebulous and erroneous point , lotsa folks will end up offended over it. If folks find comfort in their Faith then leave them to it as long as it doesn't interfere in your life and doesn't become a State mandate.

Has it come to the point where you will judge another human being based solely on religion? I ask again how that is conceptually of the slightest degree of difference from those who would judge YOU on your " lack" of religion.

You feel there is one major root cause of this all , I do not. I also believe that it started much longer ago than most do.

No it has come to the point where I don't want another man to have the right by law to judge me solely based on his religion. Go ahead and tell me what legitimate state interest there is in keeping gays from getting married--outside of this context that God said no. I'll settle for one.

That is happening all over America, and it's evil in its truest form.

There's no question about who's doing it to anyone except the perpetrators.

If there are any Christians reading this, it's not about their faith--if they want it they should be able to have it. It's about doing things to see other people force into their faith--and even worse, in my mind, doing it out of a misunderstanding (or willful ignorance) of the things the freakin' bible says in the first place.

If they get to legislate that gays can't marry--I sure as hell have the right to tell them to read their own book and feel stupid about what they've done. Or to wish they'd get the hell out of politics altogether for that matter.

I'm not trying to force your hand--it's just this is the crux of my argument. I believe this is and always has been the problem. There is way more evidence of a much more clear and present nature which points to this vs. some invisible unknown group, or multiple invisible unknown groups acting separately.

What was it you said...follow the $$$$ ?

Are you sure you've done that? I'd argue that you may have overlooked one of the major players again here--or that you're forgetting them in favor of whomever you want it to be.

I'm cool with you thinking the threat is somewhere else, but I don't--and I'm not gonna start.

My sights are set, full speed ahead.

If someone has a logical evidence based reason why I should change my mind, I am all ears. My mind isn't closed. It's just going to be very difficult to change, despite what you might think--I've thought and researched this out as well as any person would before getting as pissed as I am about this (I hope other people would do this before committing so hard).

Oh for Christ sake , how can you miss the Unholy freaking marriage of Church , State and Religion pushed from some liberal quarters? Go research Maranatha for Christ's sake and get back to me on the private prison industry within the Golden State.

And in the end Squig , *you* are bitching about what you *might* lose. And I've already told you that I agree. Now me weill it's about not only what I might lose but also **what I've already freaking LOST** , now you suss out from there what's up.

I told you where I came from as regards religion , now do I really have to go into chapter and verse with you on Cultic sordid Southern Pentacostalism , along with Adventism?

And YEAH I DID say C U L T.........reference Hoekema and the Big Four , all of whom grew from the Northeast at roughly the same time and were influenced by The Great Disappointment of 1849 ( William Miller). I mean really do I need to parade the line of Bullshit artists from Calvin , the RCC , Cotton Mather.........on up through Aimee Semple Macpherson to the modern dipshits such as the freaking Murrays , Joyce Meyer ( oral Roberts seed faith long-con) TD Jakes etc.etc.

Hows about the REALLY abberant to feed your jones , maybe Mo Berg and the C.O.G. would feed your prurient interest ( google flirty fishing) , hows about Vernon Howell's origins ( ne' koresh) right back through the Branch to the Davidians to Shepherds Rod to EGW quoting Adventism within the constructs of the L.A. SDA church........

Or Strong City since Travesser/Bent is still in the joint for diddling underage girls. How many freaking examples you want.

Again at the risk of it being taken for arrogance , and more plainly , do you see *me* telling you about *physics*? Figured out yet that Religious studies might just be one of my "fields" and that you might not be telling me anything I don't know?

So fine , I'll drag out *every* sordid religion related story and cult tale I possess *documented*..................and then after that's done I'll do the same for every atheist , liberal etc that acted like a puke. There's no shortage of jackasses now is there?

PEOPLE are freaking PEOPLE , some good, some bad.

Judge them on their individual merits , not on what/who/how/what size batteries they sleep with , what deity they do/don't worship , what they read , what they wear , their genetic makeup..........

Maybe mankind does need a return to tribal culture............treasure the Good.

Cull the Bad.