Please assist me? Ugh

[ThatCrazyStonerChick]

My opinion is to shoot for about 40-50 watts per sqft for flowering and around 25 for veg if you have separate areas. It takes a little experience as well as being pretty dialed in to take advantage of the top end of that wattage and even then, most of the grow the lights will be dimmed. Less doesn't mean you can't grow decent plants but more than that would definitely be overkill, under 30 in flower and you will be sacrificing quality and yield even as a beginner. If the lights are giving you sticker shock I always recommend to start with fewer lights and plants, get a little experience under you belt, and when you feel more confident with your skills invest in expanding your grow. As far of the value of the recommended lights, they are worth twice as much as the cheap ones, they perform that much better and last that much longer.

I see what you're saying. It's completely logical. But... it's too late. I'm not going to just throw away perfectly good fems. I can invest in better equipment for the room in a couple months, after I'm done with this round. Then I can put the light I have in a 2x4 tent that I'm not using right now. I plan on using that for veg in the future anyway. But, I need to figure our the lighting and pick out what I need so I can plan ahead. I'm not against anything that costs more, but $500 is ot of the question. Especially since I'd need more than one. I'm sure they're great lights but, Jesus. I bought a car once for $500. Literally.

 

[ThatCrazyStonerChick]

these Mars lights tested OK, better than other Mars lights, something like a 1.85 efficiency. They are well built, has a waterproof covering/coating on the led's, it would take a minimum of 2 of them to cover a 4x4 or 1 to cover a 2x4 area. Its 10x better than the first light you posted. Independent testers liked the results, not the greatest but at the price it's pretty good for a plug & play LED light

https://www.amazon.com/MARS-HYDRO-Hydroponic-Greenhouse-Commercial/dp/B07PDFWLVK?ref_=ast_sto_dp

2 for 4x4 for $260. I have approximately 7x5 so I'd need at least 2 sets. $520. Honestly, I can spend that much in a few months, but, fu@k. I don't *want * to spend more than $500 on lights. I know lighting is important and a really hotly debated item. I just can't believe that there's no middle ground.

 

[ThatCrazyStonerChick]

It would be great if you could get a tall couple of plants going. I use HID but often get plants 7 ft tall and the yield and size of buds/colas is nearly as big as outdoors. For my setup, vertical HID provides enough top and side light... I don't think a LED setup would provide as much coverage. A 600 watt HID light would work great for your tent, bu since you don't have as much head room, the LED option would probably be best. I would try for a 1000w equivalent... or about 600 watts draw at the wall. They LOVE light!

Uggggh. Now I'm confused again. Tall? I thought short and bushy with an even canopy was good so the tops get even lighting. Are you saying that the lights themselves are vertical and don't just hang above? I'm sorry. I know I'm completely naive to this. But I'm trying and I'm learning a lot.

 

[GNick55]

2 for 4x4 for $260. I have approximately 7x5 so I'd need at least 2 sets. $520. Honestly, I can spend that much in a few months, but, fu@k. I don't *want * to spend more than $500 on lights. I know lighting is important and a really hotly debated item. I just can't believe that there's no middle ground.

metal halide and high pressure sodium and ballast used for both mh and hps, is cheaper and way better for growing
KISS. keep it simple st..

 

[FourthCity]

I see what you're saying. It's completely logical. But... it's too late. I'm not going to just throw away perfectly good fems. I can invest in better equipment for the room in a couple months, after I'm done with this round. Then I can put the light I have in a 2x4 tent that I'm not using right now. I plan on using that for veg in the future anyway. But, I need to figure our the lighting and pick out what I need so I can plan ahead. I'm not against anything that costs more, but $500 is ot of the question. Especially since I'd need more than one. I'm sure they're great lights but, Jesus. I bought a car once for $500. Literally.

You dont have to throw away any plants, you could always just flower them early and keep them small so they fit under however many lights you can afford. I just know that if plants outgrow the amount of available light, the buds will be less dense and less potent, so you could be throwing something away regardless. I agree with others here that with your budget restrictions and grow area hid is the only light that is going to perform well and not be a waste of money.

If you are pretty certain you will be buying nicer leds before long then a basic 1000w hps ballast with bulb would probably be the most cost effective route. This will blow away any leds that are twice the price. It would still not quite be enough for 5x7 but if you can keep your footprint closer to 5x5 I think you will be happy with the results. This will put you well under $500, leave you quite a bit of money towards leds, and you can continue to use the hps to supplement those leds until you can buy enough of them to cover your whole 5x7 area without it. Led's are still the way to go, they may seem expensive but I find it hard to complain when they will pay for themselves several times over with each grow if you consider the value of the medicine they produce.

 

[Jimster]

Uggggh. Now I'm confused again. Tall? I thought short and bushy with an even canopy was good so the tops get even lighting. Are you saying that the lights themselves are vertical and don't just hang above? I'm sorry. I know I'm completely naive to this. But I'm trying and I'm learning a lot.

Sorry for the confusion. Most growers nowadays use SCROG and similar methods, like you say, to get an even canopy that comes from shorter and bushier plants. The problem is that under the canopy, there isn't a lot of yield. My style of growing , more like outdoors, where the plants are allowed to grow taller and they develop a lot of side growth, which doubles the yield.
When I say vertical lighting, think of a 1000w halide or HPS that is hung in a base up configuration, with just a round reflector (not a hood) at the top to direct more light downward. Think of a football sitting on end, with a sombrero covering about half of the ball. The bulb hangs into the reflector, but the bottom of the bulb is open, so that the light travels partially horizontally. With 2 bulbs going, or with a lot of titanium white paint/reflective surfaces, you get a lot of light both above the plants as well as the sides. It works great until the plants get too tall... above the level of the reflecto.r. When that happens, the leaves twist downwards to catch the light that is coming from below. Only taller Sativa strains will usually do this, so splitting/topping/whatever you want to call it, is recommended to avoid going too tall.
This works in a dedicated grow room since there is enough headspace to grow taller plants. A tent is great but limited to a smaller footprint and shorter heights. As I have said countless times... there are a million different ways to grow and most of them work great. I'm not saing it is the most efficient or tidy way of doing things, but it has worked very well for 30+ years with few modifications. If you ever decide to use something bigger than a tent, consider HID lighting. LED lighting is great and is making things better every day, but I still prefer the warm buzz from the MH and HPS bulbs, especially when it is 10 below zero outside!

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I do have to adjust the calcium nitrate slightly depending on the strain, if most like the 3.6, 2.4, 1.2 ratio, some will need .2 grams more cal nitrate so 2.6 rather than 2.4 & some will need less than the 2.4 grams per gallon, more like 2.2 grams per gallon, that is about the only adjustment that I have needed. I also use humic acid that has some fulvic acid in it, silica, some microbes & a zyme that keeps the roots clean. I can get 11 harvests in on $250 total worth of nutes & the additives I use (at 12 gallons of nutes/additives per day use for me)

That's a deal...nooow i see why you guys are all on the Jacks - i didn't know about the 321 program

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

No. You shouldnt have to but is entirely dependent on source water alkalinity.

source water with a reasonable ppm immedietely takes on the ph of the buffer (calcium) in the soil.

I use 8.0 ph well water but it only has 150 ppm mineral content and my plants always yellowed until i stopped adding acid (ph down) to it.

I have not adjusted ph in 5 years since and in multiple potting soil mixes.


If the source water is too high in minerals then it should be mixed with ro water down to 150 ppm ideally. Adding acid should be a last resort in potting soil. It will eventually eat up the buffer and leave the medium permanently acidic.

The 150 ppm for ideal water comes from greenhouse and nutrient guides from the ag industry. Jacks classic for example intructs what i just wrote.

exactly

 

[ThatCrazyStonerChick]

You dont have to throw away any plants, you could always just flower them early and keep them small so they fit under however many lights you can afford. I just know that if plants outgrow the amount of available light, the buds will be less dense and less potent, so you could be throwing something away regardless. I agree with others here that with your budget restrictions and grow area hid is the only light that is going to perform well and not be a waste of money.

If you are pretty certain you will be buying nicer leds before long then a basic 1000w hps ballast with bulb would probably be the most cost effective route. This will blow away any leds that are twice the price. It would still not quite be enough for 5x7 but if you can keep your footprint closer to 5x5 I think you will be happy with the results. This will put you well under $500, leave you quite a bit of money towards leds, and you can continue to use the hps to supplement those leds until you can buy enough of them to cover your whole 5x7 area without it. Led's are still the way to go, they may seem expensive but I find it hard to complain when they will pay for themselves several times over with each grow if you consider the value of the medicine they produce.

Just screen-shotted that. Thank you VERY much

 

[ThatCrazyStonerChick]

Sorry for the confusion. Most growers nowadays use SCROG and similar methods, like you say, to get an even canopy that comes from shorter and bushier plants. The problem is that under the canopy, there isn't a lot of yield. My style of growing , more like outdoors, where the plants are allowed to grow taller and they develop a lot of side growth, which doubles the yield.
When I say vertical lighting, think of a 1000w halide or HPS that is hung in a base up configuration, with just a round reflector (not a hood) at the top to direct more light downward. Think of a football sitting on end, with a sombrero covering about half of the ball. The bulb hangs into the reflector, but the bottom of the bulb is open, so that the light travels partially horizontally. With 2 bulbs going, or with a lot of titanium white paint/reflective surfaces, you get a lot of light both above the plants as well as the sides. It works great until the plants get too tall... above the level of the reflecto.r. When that happens, the leaves twist downwards to catch the light that is coming from below. Only taller Sativa strains will usually do this, so splitting/topping/whatever you want to call it, is recommended to avoid going too tall.
This works in a dedicated grow room since there is enough headspace to grow taller plants. A tent is great but limited to a smaller footprint and shorter heights. As I have said countless times... there are a million different ways to grow and most of them work great. I'm not saing it is the most efficient or tidy way of doing things, but it has worked very well for 30+ years with few modifications. If you ever decide to use something bigger than a tent, consider HID lighting. LED lighting is great and is making things better every day, but I still prefer the warm buzz from the MH and HPS bulbs, especially when it is 10 below zero outside!

I've never heard of that before. It sounds similar to the configuration of a clamp lamp. I have a room that I constructed that's another 7x5x6.3ish. The tent is 2x4x5. I'm not using the tent right now at all, but I plan to use it for veg in the future. I was trying to stay with led because it seemed the most cost effective. The start up for this is insane. I had to build the room from the ground up, lighting, ventilation.... I'm willing to invest in decent equipment add long add iit's

Sorry for the confusion. Most growers nowadays use SCROG and similar methods, like you say, to get an even canopy that comes from shorter and bushier plants. The problem is that under the canopy, there isn't a lot of yield. My style of growing , more like outdoors, where the plants are allowed to grow taller and they develop a lot of side growth, which doubles the yield.
When I say vertical lighting, think of a 1000w halide or HPS that is hung in a base up configuration, with just a round reflector (not a hood) at the top to direct more light downward. Think of a football sitting on end, with a sombrero covering about half of the ball. The bulb hangs into the reflector, but the bottom of the bulb is open, so that the light travels partially horizontally. With 2 bulbs going, or with a lot of titanium white paint/reflective surfaces, you get a lot of light both above the plants as well as the sides. It works great until the plants get too tall... above the level of the reflecto.r. When that happens, the leaves twist downwards to catch the light that is coming from below. Only taller Sativa strains will usually do this, so splitting/topping/whatever you want to call it, is recommended to avoid going too tall.
This works in a dedicated grow room since there is enough headspace to grow taller plants. A tent is great but limited to a smaller footprint and shorter heights. As I have said countless times... there are a million different ways to grow and most of them work great. I'm not saing it is the most efficient or tidy way of doing things, but it has worked very well for 30+ years with few modifications. If you ever decide to use something bigger than a tent, consider HID lighting. LED lighting is great and is making things better every day, but I still prefer the warm buzz from the MH and HPS bulbs, especially when it is 10 below zero outside!

I've never heard of this before. It sounds similar to the configuration of a clamp lamp.
I have a room that I constructed that's about 5x7x6.3ish. It's lined with panda film including the floor. Iwanted as much light as possible. That's what I'm using for the whole grow right now. I plan to use the (2x4x5) tent for veg in the future.

Sorry for the confusion. Most growers nowadays use SCROG and similar methods, like you say, to get an even canopy that comes from shorter and bushier plants. The problem is that under the canopy, there isn't a lot of yield. My style of growing , more like outdoors, where the plants are allowed to grow taller and they develop a lot of side growth, which doubles the yield.
When I say vertical lighting, think of a 1000w halide or HPS that is hung in a base up configuration, with just a round reflector (not a hood) at the top to direct more light downward. Think of a football sitting on end, with a sombrero covering about half of the ball. The bulb hangs into the reflector, but the bottom of the bulb is open, so that the light travels partially horizontally. With 2 bulbs going, or with a lot of titanium white paint/reflective surfaces, you get a lot of light both above the plants as well as the sides. It works great until the plants get too tall... above the level of the reflecto.r. When that happens, the leaves twist downwards to catch the light that is coming from below. Only taller Sativa strains will usually do this, so splitting/topping/whatever you want to call it, is recommended to avoid going too tall.
This works in a dedicated grow room since there is enough headspace to grow taller plants. A tent is great but limited to a smaller footprint and shorter heights. As I have said countless times... there are a million different ways to grow and most of them work great. I'm not saing it is the most efficient or tidy way of doing things, but it has worked very well for 30+ years with few modifications. If you ever decide to use something bigger than a tent, consider HID lighting. LED lighting is great and is making things better every day, but I still prefer the warm buzz from the MH and HPS bulbs, especially when it is 10 below zero outside!

I've never heard of this before. I think I get what you're explaining. It sounds similar to the configuration of a clamp light.
I'm predominantly using a grow room that I constructed to be about 5x7x6.3ish. I'm using that for the whole grow. I have a 2x4x5 tent that I intend to use for veg after this initial grow.
I'm not against other types of lighting. I was leaning toward led because I thought it was the most cost effective. The start up has been never-ending. Constructing the room, lighting, ventilation.... it added up fast. I'm not against investing in good equipment at all. I want to actually. As long as it's not ludicrous. I just need to get through this grow first. I planned on using what I have in the tent after this initial round. Do you have any pics of your set up that you would be willing to post or send to me? I get what you're saying but it would be easiest to absorb if I saw it. I'm trying to find out what is working for everybody and see which will work best for me and my space. I'll go back to Amazon and research lighting again. I need to see pricing.

 

[ThatCrazyStonerChick]

I've never heard of that before. It sounds similar to the configuration of a clamp lamp. I have a room that I constructed that's another 7x5x6.3ish. The tent is 2x4x5. I'm not using the tent right now at all, but I plan to use it for veg in the future. I was trying to stay with led because it seemed the most cost effective. The start up for this is insane. I had to build the room from the ground up, lighting, ventilation.... I'm willing to invest in decent equipment add long add iit's
I've never heard of this before. It sounds similar to the configuration of a clamp lamp.
I have a room that I constructed that's about 5x7x6.3ish. It's lined with panda film including the floor. Iwanted as much light as possible. That's what I'm using for the whole grow right now. I plan to use the (2x4x5) tent for veg in the future.
I've never heard of this before. I think I get what you're explaining. It sounds similar to the configuration of a clamp light.
I'm predominantly using a grow room that I constructed to be about 5x7x6.3ish. I'm using that for the whole grow. I have a 2x4x5 tent that I intend to use for veg after this initial grow.
I'm not against other types of lighting. I was leaning toward led because I thought it was the most cost effective. The start up has been never-ending. Constructing the room, lighting, ventilation.... it added up fast. I'm not against investing in good equipment at all. I want to actually. As long as it's not ludicrous. I just need to get through this grow first. I planned on using what I have in the tent after this initial round. Do you have any pics of your set up that you would be willing to post or send to me? I get what you're saying but it would be easiest to absorb if I saw it. I'm trying to find out what is working for everybody and see which will work best for me and my space. I'll go back to Amazon and research lighting again. I need to see pricing.

I tried to respond to this thread so many times and kept losing what I was writing. Apparently now they've all popped up, so please forgive the redundancy.

 

[Pilotofmylife]

I use fr ocean forest for seed starts. This soil has plenty of nutrients I add calmag every other watering.

 

[ThatCrazyStonerChick]

I use fr ocean forest for seed starts. This soil has plenty of nutrients I add calmag every other watering.

Is that tent a 2x4?

 

[maximusluminous]

metal halide and high pressure sodium and ballast used for both mh and hps, is cheaper and way better for growing
KISS. keep it simple st..

you really have no clue if you believe this.. I once thought this too.. till I bought good LED's & they blow HPS & MH out of the water, its not even a fair fight...lol. I mean they (HPS/MH) are cheaper to buy but they are not cheaper to run or replace bulbs in... and I seriously get 25% to like 40% more yield from 640 watts of LED than I got from 1000 watts of HPS (not blurples, white led's supplements with 660nm reds), nothing is simplier than LED's! Maybe you can explain to me how HPS grows better when I get 1.5lbs from 640 watts of LED but I was only getting 1.25lbs from 1000 watts of HPS.. I gotta here this explanation of how that makes HPS better...lmao

 

[FourthCity]

you really have no clue if you believe this.. I once thought this too.. till I bought good LED's & they blow HPS & MH out of the water, its not even a fair fight...lol. I mean they (HPS/MH) are cheaper to buy but they are not cheaper to run or replace bulbs in... and I seriously get 25% to like 40% more yield from 640 watts of LED than I got from 1000 watts of HPS (not blurples, white led's supplements with 660nm reds), nothing is simplier than LED's! Maybe you can explain to me how HPS grows better when I get 1.5lbs from 640 watts of LED but I was only getting 1.25lbs from 1000 watts of HPS.. I gotta here this explanation of how that makes HPS better...lmao

You really think $500 dollars worth of leds could outperform $500 worth of of mh/hps lights? That is the scenario being discussed here. As I've said before, leds are generally the best option but in some cases other lights have their own advantages. In this case the op has a desired footprint to cover and number of plants she wants to grow but has limited funds for lighting, without reducing the number of plants or increasing the available funds an hid setup is her best option.

As far as you getting better yields after switching to less watts of leds, you have already stated before that when you run more than 35 watts per square foot your plants don't perform as well. If you aren't able to keep your plants dialed enough to handle the extra wattage then it only makes sense that you also would have had smaller yields when you were running more watts with your hids.

 

[Kraken.headz]

Also, there are people out there knocking 3+ lbs/1kw from DE lighting. A 600w garden at 78 degrees is probably going to outperform a 1000w garden at 85+ degrees.
Not a one size fits all. In general, it's going to be easier for a home grower to accommodate an LED light.

 

[dire wolf]

I agree with fourth city

 

[Farmingbuds]

I have 2 1 thousand watt full spectrum and a 600 watt cobb light. I had 3 plants that I got 5 ounces from. I spent loads of money on nutrients. I suggest spending the money on good lights. That's what I will be doing when I can afford to. In the end do what's best for you

 

[MIMedGrower]

you really have no clue if you believe this.. I once thought this too.. till I bought good LED's & they blow HPS & MH out of the water, its not even a fair fight...lol. I mean they (HPS/MH) are cheaper to buy but they are not cheaper to run or replace bulbs in... and I seriously get 25% to like 40% more yield from 640 watts of LED than I got from 1000 watts of HPS (not blurples, white led's supplements with 660nm reds), nothing is simplier than LED's! Maybe you can explain to me how HPS grows better when I get 1.5lbs from 640 watts of LED but I was only getting 1.25lbs from 1000 watts of HPS.. I gotta here this explanation of how that makes HPS better...lmao

I believe this bears repeating. If you only got 1.25 lbs from a 1000 watt hps you were no where near its potential.

That is a 600 watt hps yield.

Amd so is the 1.5 with your 640 watts of led.

Something other than light needed improving.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Also, there are people out there knocking 3+ lbs/1kw from DE lighting. A 600w garden at 78 degrees is probably going to outperform a 1000w garden at 85+ degrees.
Not a one size fits all. In general, it's going to be easier for a home grower to accommodate an LED light.

I think its also about learning to work the light to the plants best benefit. Took me a couple years to yield heavy off my 600’s.

And it will likely take time to get that good with an led.