Please help a novice in distress

[LocalWeedia]

I hope that's not true because I've just given them another 2 litres of water each with molasses and liquid seaweed. I put 1 tablespoon of molasses and 6 millilitres of seaweed in 6 litres of water.

I would cut the molasses out def. I’m told by some more experienced growers that even in organic-only gardening that you only need molasses two or three times per grow and two of those are two weeks before flower and two weeks before harvest. Try just water and watch for when they need cal-mag. And maybe Silica. Your soil should get them through without nutrients for a couple fo weeks. I went 45 days without adding anything at all in ocean forest soil for my first grow. All went fine. Plenty of yield etc. The next time I had accumulated a lot of Down to Earth products and other things like grow dots and recharge mixed into an empty soil like ProMix. But all that could lead to over feeding. It’s tricky but the way your set up looks makes me think you’ll do fine. The first grow is anxiety inducing but remember they are easy, strong plants that mostly love to be left alone in the warm to hot light, drinking in their fresh water, and feeling the breeze. That’s all. The other stuff we do is for yield and potency, etc. Low stress training and special nutes. That’s for us; not them really. So you can always step back and take a breather and they’ll be great! Win/win.

 

[LocalWeedia]

This is good stuff. It would be good to see a comparative grow, all things being equal, with 1 being your basic, "regular" soil that most novice growers would buy or put together from a few fairly common ingredients.........the other this more "living soil", one that's built the way you're talking about, with all of the ingredients that make it happen. I'm going to assume that there's going to be a meaningful, obvious difference, otherwise, why do it?

The next question is......is there a relatively simple way to achieve this? Most growers are probably not going to buy a dozen or more ingredients, or spend time mixing up concoctions and getting very science-y.......

If you had to strip it down and tell someone the easiest way to achieve the goal of putting this kind of soil together, with the least amount of work, ingredients......granted it may not be as great as doing all of the work, but what would you advise? Let's say I've already got a few good bags of soil, perlite, peat moss.......what could I add into this mix that would pretty much get me there?

I’d watch 420Scene on YouTube. (Guy w/blue glasses) He got me through my first grow and posts vids featuring recipes for super soil and compost tea (bubbling water to get the air in there, and adding castings, kelp, bone, etc etc, His videos are very informative and in short doses so that you don’t get overwhelmed. <3

 

[IsanFarmer]

Glad to here you are enjoying the grow it's not only about the high. Your plants look nice they are a little too compact. If you kept your lights too low and continue to keep lights too low your plants will not gain the height they need. You don't want them stretched to the sky but you do want more room between knobs than you have now. It needs room to stretch out and grow. It should be taller and wider at this stage. Keep that in mind on your next grow. Being that compacted can cause all sorts of problems. You can raise the lights some more till they gain some height then adjust lights as needed.

This might seem like a stupid question but if I raise the light and increase the intensity of the light so that the plants receive the same micromoles of light, will they still grow into the light and stretch even though they're receiving the same amount of light as they were before?

 

[Trash_2002]

This might seem like a stupid question but if I raise the light and increase the intensity of the light so that the plants receive the same micromoles of light, will they still grow into the light and stretch even though they're receiving the same amount of light as they were before?

not really, but you gonna get a more even spread of light.

 

[MissMedijuana]

soil contains millions of microorganisms which function in increasing soil fertility and plant growth. All members of this community have a specific role and this community is extremely structured by environment factors and soil chemical properties the magic in this community is its adaptability to balance itself. Molasse is good to a certain extent but can be detrimental as it will result in imbalance in the diversity which will affect the PH balance, nutriments uptake by the plant and mineralization toxicity especially at the micro nutriment level and it is where you can run in big trouble because the variety of symptom the plant will show you will make it extremely hard to diagnosis.
Unless you have experience, knowledge or access to lab testing I will not recommend the use of molasse. Instead use different source of compost, vermicompost, guano, mycorrhizae do not stick to a single product multiply your sourcing.
For those who recondition old soil for new crop do not forget to use EM water during the process it will help increase the diversity and balance the population.
Balance, Balance 555

 

[IsanFarmer]

not really, but you gonna get a more even spread of light.

Whereas if I raise the light but keep it at the same intensity, the plants will grow into the light and get taller? Or does it not work like that?

 

[Trash_2002]

Whereas if I raise the light but keep it at the same intensity, the plants will grow into the light and get taller? Or does it not work like that?

it depends if the genetic is more prone to stretch or not, more light intensity "bushier" plants and faster growth to some extent, same light intensity "same" growth rate and maybe more stretch, but off course a bigger plant will grow faster too, there are some variables in play here.

 

[IsanFarmer]

it depends if the genetic is more prone to stretch or not, more light intensity "bushier" plants and faster growth to some extent, same light intensity "same" growth rate and maybe more stretch, but off course a bigger plant will grow faster too, there are some variables in play here.

I fed my plants with the Grow Big 4 days ago and they haven't grown at all since then. I am starting to think it's because my PH pen doesn't work properly so all the readings are incorrect and therefore the plants aren't absorbing any nutrients? Please see my separate thread about this.

Edit - I won't be making that thread because I have just worked out what the problem is! I am using RO water and it is difficult for these pens to give an accurate reading in RO water. As quoted from their website:

"As reverse osmosis removes all ionic and solid components present there should only be water present. The water molecules are made up of equal ratios of Hydrogen (H+) and Hydroxide (OH-) ions and so the pH should be neutral (7). However, as these ions are bound up in a water molecule (H2O) they cannot interact with the pH probe so you will not obtain a reading. High sensitivity probes can be used, but are a lot more expensive as they use a different technology, but these are not necessary for agricultural measurements."

According to their website the solution is this:

"It is popular to add a small amount of Calcium Magnesium (calmag) to RO water to be able to obtain a pH reading as our probes can measure pH once there are some ions present (Cl- and Mg2+). However, the addition of calmag doesn’t change the pH of the solution at all as it doesn’t contain Hydrogen or hydroxide ions which are the only ions that can change the pH. Even though you may now receive a reading, it has not changed from before you added the calmag, so what’s the point?"

 

[MissMedijuana]

There is so many ways to grow that works well so I do not make a blank statement here.
RO Water is not really a good idea when growing in soil. It come back to what I said previously about microorganism. The more you add, the more likely you are going to disturb that community and run into unbalance issue.
The main issue is that many growers do not understand how microorganism work. Basically, they produce acid to break down molecules and make them assimilable by the plant and receive sugar in exchange. Ph around a specific microorganism differ greatly and when you check soil PH it is an average reading. As long as you are using a quality soil it has all to balance the overall PH which should be around 7 for the microorganism to thrive, then each microorganism will do what it is made for and adjust the optimal PH it needs to works.
Chemical fertilizer needs a PH of 6.5 to fully dissolve and it is where the confusion arises when sharing knowledge.
Check your tape water and if ppm is below 350 go for it, what you need to do is to lets it sit for 48 hours
The same goes for PH adjustment if you are using quality soil and you water is around 7 or a bit up it will work fine. Mine is around 7.4 and it works fine without any adjustment.
Microorganisms, do not like abrupt change, they can adapt. Some population will decrease while other will increase, it can happen in a short time so plants can show light symptom due to natural adjustment but it is temporary. Give them time to adapt. Unless you make a huge mistake doing nothing and lets nature do the job is the best approach.
Keep in mind that most of you can read came from an industrialist perspective, where all have to be optimized. It works well but they have resources we do not have.

 

[Trash_2002]

I fed my plants with the Grow Big 4 days ago and they haven't grown at all since then. I am starting to think it's because my PH pen doesn't work properly so all the readings are incorrect and therefore the plants aren't absorbing any nutrients? Please see my separate thread about this.

Edit - I won't be making that thread because I have just worked out what the problem is! I am using RO water and it is difficult for these pens to give an accurate reading in RO water. As quoted from their website:

"As reverse osmosis removes all ionic and solid components present there should only be water present. The water molecules are made up of equal ratios of Hydrogen (H+) and Hydroxide (OH-) ions and so the pH should be neutral (7). However, as these ions are bound up in a water molecule (H2O) they cannot interact with the pH probe so you will not obtain a reading. High sensitivity probes can be used, but are a lot more expensive as they use a different technology, but these are not necessary for agricultural measurements."

According to their website the solution is this:

"It is popular to add a small amount of Calcium Magnesium (calmag) to RO water to be able to obtain a pH reading as our probes can measure pH once there are some ions present (Cl- and Mg2+). However, the addition of calmag doesn’t change the pH of the solution at all as it doesn’t contain Hydrogen or hydroxide ions which are the only ions that can change the pH. Even though you may now receive a reading, it has not changed from before you added the calmag, so what’s the point?"

I Never used RO water to grow plants, I only use it to calibrate some instruments.
Your plants look healthy and you topped them just few days ago, I bet the side branch's already growed some. Have photos?
Cheers

 

[IsanFarmer]

I Never used RO water to grow plants, I only use it to calibrate some instruments.
Your plants look healthy and you topped them just few days ago, I bet the side branch's already growed some. Have photos?
Cheers

I didn't realise that RO water isn't suitable for PH pens. It's playing havoc with mine so I'm going to start using tap water instead. I think the RO water may have completely fucked my PH pen because it won't give me a stable reading for my tap water either, the reading keeps dropping until the pen switches off. Surely that's not right for an expensive Bluelab pen? If it does that how do I know what the PH is? I topped my plants a week ago. they've grown a bit but surely they should be bigger at this stage? Should I cut the big fan leaves off the plants?

 

[Trash_2002]

I didn't realise that RO water isn't suitable for PH pens. It's playing havoc with mine so I'm going to start using tap water instead. I think the RO water may have completely fucked my PH pen because it won't give me a stable reading for my tap water either, the reading keeps dropping until the pen switches off. Surely that's not right for an expensive Bluelab pen? If it does that how do I know what the PH is? I topped my plants a week ago. they've grown a bit but surely they should be bigger at this stage? Should I cut the big fan leaves off the plants?

Yes RO water can completely fuckup a ph pen that's true,.I've seen it before.
Your plants looking good to me, they are growing for sure, giving apical dominance for all the side branches but growing as they should. Wait 7 to 14 days before removing fan leafs or any invasive procedure.

 

[IsanFarmer]

Yes RO water can completely fuckup a ph pen that's true,.I've seen it before.
Your plants looking good to me, they are growing for sure, giving apical dominance for all the side branches but growing as they should. Wait 7 to 14 days before removing fan leafs or any invasive procedure.

When you say that do you mean using it with RO water just for testing and not hydration? I've never used it to hydrate the pen, only for testing the PH of RO water but in my experience it would appear that this can still fuck the pen up?

 

[Trash_2002]

When you say that do you mean using it with RO water just for testing and not hydration? I've never used it to hydrate the pen, only for testing the PH of RO water but in my experience it would appear that this can still fuck the pen up?

RO water and most simple ph pens are enemies, RO water for those pens should be used only to clean quickly between calibration solutions when doing calibration procedure.

 

[FuriousStyles]

Why in the world did u top these plants?

 

[MissMedijuana]

When you say that do you mean using it with RO water just for testing and not hydration? I've never used it to hydrate the pen, only for testing the PH of RO water but in my experience it would appear that this can still fuck the pen up?

Trio set for safe use cleaning solution soak for 1 hour every 6 month rinse with RO, and use few drop of storage solution when you are done. AS trash said RO for rinse between. Do not turn on the pen during cleaning or rinse

 

[IsanFarmer]

RO water and most simple ph pens are enemies, RO water for those pens should be used only to clean quickly between calibration solutions when doing calibration procedure.

Mine isn't cheap, it's a Bluelab but I still think it's damaged it. I've been reusing the buffers like an idiot because I didn't realise you couldn't. That certainly hasn't helped. I have some new calibration solutions on the way. If the pen reads the calibration solutions accurately and the readings don't drift, does that mean the pen is still ok to use?

Why in the world did u top these plants?

Because I am an impatient newbie that doesn't know what he's doing! I don't think it did my plants a lot of good and I won't be doing it so early with my next grow. Do you think it has had a detrimental affect on the plants?

View attachment 1991110
Trio set for safe use cleaning solution soak for 1 hour every 6 month rinse with RO, and use few drop of storage solution when you are done. AS trash said RO for rinse between. Do not turn on the pen during cleaning or rinse

That's the same company that I've been using for buffer solutions etc. I'm going to stop using RO water and use the tap water instead. Where I am in Isan the tap water has a PPM of around 60 and a PH of about 7.1 which is great. What is the PPM in Chiang Mai? I've just been looking at the Provincial Waterworks Authority website and they say that they put chlorine in the water. If I fill a container of water and let it sit you say the chlorine will evaporate from the water? I've heard that pumping air into the water will do that too?

 

[MissMedijuana]

Mine isn't cheap, it's a Bluelab but I still think it's damaged it. I've been reusing the buffers like an idiot because I didn't realise you couldn't. That certainly hasn't helped. I have some new calibration solutions on the way. If the pen reads the calibration solutions accurately and the readings don't drift, does that mean the pen is still ok to use?



Because I am an impatient newbie that doesn't know what he's doing! I don't think it did my plants a lot of good and I won't be doing it so early with my next grow. Do you think it has had a detrimental affect on the plants?



That's the same company that I've been using for buffer solutions etc. I'm going to stop using RO water and use the tap water instead. Where I am in Isan the tap water has a PPM of around 60 and a PH of about 7.1 which is great. What is the PPM in Chiang Mai? I've just been looking at the Provincial Waterworks Authority website and they say that they put chlorine in the water. If I fill a container of water and let it sit you say the chlorine will evaporate from the water? I've heard that pumping air into the water will do that too?

I am from Chiang Mai, study in Bangkok, working and living in Phan Thong for Kubota, you probably saw then a lot 555. Phan Thong Ph is 7.4 stable ppm 210, in Bkk it fluctuates a lot but often out of range for both so using RO mixed with tap water, no choice.
Myth: chlorine or chloramide in tap water are toxic to plant. Partly true for hydroponic only as root may brownish.
Cal Mag or PH down for example are much more toxic to microorganism. Yes, let’s water sit for 48 hours it will evaporate, as a precautionary step. Pumping air works also but not necessary at all. Your tap water at 60ppm, the level of chlorine or chloramine will be well below 10ppm and toxicity won’t show up as long as pure chlorine or chloramide are below 100ppm so your tap water can be used right away without any problems chlorine and chloramide are a no concern at such level. Furthermore, plant need chlorine to thrive.

 

[Trash_2002]

Mine isn't cheap, it's a Bluelab but I still think it's damaged it. I've been reusing the buffers like an idiot because I didn't realise you couldn't. That certainly hasn't helped. I have some new calibration solutions on the way. If the pen reads the calibration solutions accurately and the readings don't drift, does that mean the pen is still ok to use?



Because I am an impatient newbie that doesn't know what he's doing! I don't think it did my plants a lot of good and I won't be doing it so early with my next grow. Do you think it has had a detrimental affect on the plants?



That's the same company that I've been using for buffer solutions etc. I'm going to stop using RO water and use the tap water instead. Where I am in Isan the tap water has a PPM of around 60 and a PH of about 7.1 which is great. What is the PPM in Chiang Mai? I've just been looking at the Provincial Waterworks Authority website and they say that they put chlorine in the water. If I fill a container of water and let it sit you say the chlorine will evaporate from the water? I've heard that pumping air into the water will do that too?

Yep buffer calibration solutions are meant to be used once, 20ml in a small coffee plastic cup and thrown away after calibration procedure, try to rehidrate the electrode for 2h with storage solution than clean it and calibrate, if it calibrate and read the buffer solutions ok, you saved it, if it's still drifting you need a new pen, you can try ask them for a guarantee, since they never really clearly state RO water is electrode killer on those products, they mention breafly in manual, "don't store with RO water" or something but never stating " NEVER use this product with RO water you will kill your electrode and will void your warranty !!!"

 

[IsanFarmer]

Yep buffer calibration solutions are meant to be used once, 20ml in a small coffee plastic cup and thrown away after calibration procedure, try to rehidrate the electrode for 2h with storage solution than clean it and calibrate, if it calibrate and read the buffer solutions ok, you saved it, if it's still drifting you need a new pen, you can try ask them for a guarantee, since they never really clearly state RO water is electrode killer on those products, they mention breafly in manual, "don't store with RO water" or something but never stating " NEVER use this product with RO water you will kill your electrode and will void your warranty !!!"

Yes and this has pissed me off because they should be a bit clearer about this, if they're telling you that you should never soak the pen in RO water then it stands to reason that it's probably not a good idea to use it with RO water full stop. Hopefully the pen will still calibrate when my new PH buffers are delivered but if it doesn't that was a schoolboy error and an expensive mistake. Tell me, if I soak the probe in the storage solution, can I reuse that solution again or is that a no no as well?