Post your Organic Soil Mix

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Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

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If you do some math on SOME of those inputs they are pretty excessive.

Excessive N with the neem cake, guano will put the P levels WAY up there and the greensand will add excess K.
Odds are there is plenty in the compost and other amendments.


1/2 cup per cubic foot of neem cake = NPK per acre.:
653.385 lbs N per acre.
108.89 lbs P per acre.
217.7 lbs K per acre


Adding the guano at that rate 1/2lb per cubic foot will add
5989.3625 lbs of phosphorus per acre ( P205) = 2635 lbs of P

Some soil analysis recommends up to 600lbs per acre of P.

That is without calculating the inputs from all your other amendments. Which are excessive.
Then add some top dressings to put you way over the top and create more imbalance.

Not getting into sodium and probably a lack of trace minerals.

Better to put on less than to put "more-on". Can always add more, but not as easy to take away.

Nutrient deficiencies and/or nutrient excesses cause pest / disease problems by themselves.
i used this mix last year and grew some awesome plants no pest or disease on them. the only thing different i added this year was the source of Ewc and compost. i just go with what the plants tell me they need once i set them out. what would u recommend i change to this then?
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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I will brother hopefully it not to hot ! Do you have a estamation on price for test
IIRC, Bulldog11 pays less than $40 from Logan Labs. IIRC!

Sorry you broke yer quotes.

@leadsled is there a tool or a spreadsheet that could help the mathematically declined such as myself? Something that would allow us to plug in some numbers and make similar calculations?
 
Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

337
63
IIRC, Bulldog11 pays less than $40 from Logan Labs. IIRC!

Sorry you broke yer quotes.

@leadsled is there a tool or a spreadsheet that could help the mathematically declined such as myself? Something that would allow us to plug in some numbers and make similar calculations?
im also mathematically declined lol so that would be really helpful. i can also adjust my amendments since i have not mixed stuff up yet this year. i am however gonna be building myself a few huglekulture beds this year so im gonna use alot of nitrogen on it to help speed up the wood rotting/composting process. im not gonna use these beds this year though bc the real beauty of the huglekulture beds is the 2nd year and beyond.

i was wanting to get ur guys thoughts on "Michael Astera" product he is the author of a book called "the ideal soil". here is the link to his product that he says will grow awesome plants with water only. http://soilminerals.com/Agricolas4-8-4_MainPage.htm
 
Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

337
63
If you do some math on SOME of those inputs they are pretty excessive.

Excessive N with the neem cake, guano will put the P levels WAY up there and the greensand will add excess K.
Odds are there is plenty in the compost and other amendments.


1/2 cup per cubic foot of neem cake = NPK per acre.:
653.385 lbs N per acre.
108.89 lbs P per acre.
217.7 lbs K per acre


Adding the guano at that rate 1/2lb per cubic foot will add
5989.3625 lbs of phosphorus per acre ( P205) = 2635 lbs of P

Some soil analysis recommends up to 600lbs per acre of P.

That is without calculating the inputs from all your other amendments. Which are excessive.
Then add some top dressings to put you way over the top and create more imbalance.

Not getting into sodium and probably a lack of trace minerals.

Better to put on less than to put "more-on". Can always add more, but not as easy to take away.

Nutrient deficiencies and/or nutrient excesses cause pest / disease problems by themselves.
what do u think about this mix:

1/2 Part Worm Power

1/2 Part Oly Mountain Fish Compost/lobster compost

1 Part Sphagnum Peat Moss

2/3 Part Pumice

1/3 Part Rice Hulls

5% Pre-Charged Bio Char

Nutrients:
Acadian Kelp Meal @ 1/2 Cup per cubic foot

Neem Cake @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot

Crustacean Meal @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot

Brix Blend Basalt @ 2 Cups Per Cubic Foot

Gypsum Dust @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot

Oyster Flour @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot

I also have Coast of Maine super soil mix called "stonington blend organic super soil"(1.5 c.f) im gonna add only 2 cups of stonington plant food,1/2 cup of neem meal and 1/2 cup insect frass. check these links and let me know your thoughts on this as well led thanks.

http://shop.coastofmaine.com/products/stonington-blend-super-soil
http://shop.coastofmaine.com/products/lobster-and-kelp-plant-food
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
Do you have a estamation on price for test
@GrowingGreen
I got the exact cost.
$30.00 for the base test plus the cost of shipping.
usps flat rate box is $5.95 for example.

$25.00
The Standard Test package includes pH, organic matter, base saturation, total exchange capacity, Mehlich III ex
tractable sulfur, phosphorous, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, boron, iron, manganese, copper, zinc, aluminum
Recommend to pay an additional $5.00 to add on testing for : EC, Mo, Co, Se, Si.

Which then brings the total for the test up to $30.00
That is the basic "strong acid" test to get started and to stop growing blind. That does not include testing for Nitrogen.
Please ask if you want to test for N.
Or
if you want instructions on how to take the sample, and where to send in the test?
What to post up to get a soil recommendation .
Ask if you got any questions?????
My statement applies to anyone reading this thread and wants to participate.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
Coo can you send the address & info to me
Here is how to take the test:

Sample the soil from at least 5 different locations. if you can take more that is better for a representation of your soil.
Use a plastic cup or shovel to scoop it up.

Place all the samples into a bucket.
DO NOT use a container made of metal!
Mix well.
Take out 2 cups and put in zip lock baggie.
Seal it well. Write your name, email and sample name on the baggie with a permanent marker.

Go to http://loganlabs.com/doc/submissionworksheet.pdf, download and print soil submission worksheet.
At bottom of form write Base Test Plus EC, Mo,Co, Se, Si
Example name for sample: Soil Mix 1.
Instructions for filling out worksheet are here:

http://www.loganlabs.com/doc/submissionworksheet.pdf
Ask if you have any questions!

Note: The first time you work with Logan Labs you have to pay upfront. Additional tests they will bill you after doing the test.
Make check to logan labs for $30.00
Mail Worksheet and soil sample to:
Logan Labs
P.O. Box 326
Lakeview, OH 43331

After logan labs completes the test. They will email you back the soil test result.
I can then give you recommendations for amendments based on your soil test.
That is the bare minimum to know what is going down with the soil chemistry for long term release.


Are you using soil less???? Peat based or coco. no top soil in it.

To account for a lightweight soil based on peat or coco coir and to make the most accurate amendment recommendations.

Take it a step further for accuracy!
weigh the soil to calculate the actual weight of your soil less.

Step to account for soil weight:
Ideally you should weigh a one gallon bucket of soil. Take a one gallon bucket and lightly pack it with soil. Weigh the soil and write down the weight.
Dry the soil out. Do this in sun or dry in the oven at 250f.
Write down the weight of one gallon of soil. Post up the weight of the soil moist and then dry.

For me to make a soil amendment recommendation I need your:
1. Soil Test.
2. Soil Weight
3. Size of your containers, beds or farm.
4. Any amendments you already have and want to use.

I will then give you a free soil amendment recommendation in this thread. Unless it is against the TOS??
The normal fee for this service ranges from $30.00 to $100.00. All depends on who you hire.

Trying to help others get on top of using math to calculate there soil mixes. Then get superior results. Generally organic growers are behind the curve and do not follow the latest practices.


People growing in hydro and using water soluble salts use math and do calulations for recipes.
They share recipes based on math. The same math can be applied to organics and soil/soil less.


Yet I see all these mixes that appear to be some frankenstein recipes that are not done based on calculating the inputs used.


Hope that helps you and anyone else reading the thread. Start testing and stop growing blind.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
i used this mix last year and grew some awesome plants no pest or disease on them. the only thing different i added this year was the source of Ewc and compost. i just go with what the plants tell me they need once i set them out. what would u recommend i change to this then?
Are you mixing soil growing in it once, and throwing it out???
Organics inputs can be water soluble and insoluble. Some are released quickly and others take more time.


I want to optimize things and be proactive.
Can measure things and then act based on the measurements.
Health care not sick care.

Is there a method to your approach of adding amendments?
Make mix: grow plants. Did they appear deficient? or did well? Than adjust mix accordingly?
Is there a a measurement to gauge the performance of what you are doing?
Is the test based on quality or quantity?

Qualative examples:
Soil testing, physical, chemical and biological.
Plant testing. brix ph ec, thc/cbd/cbn/
Quantative examples: Yield along with other values can be measured and tracked.

Are things getting better or worse?

You asked what you should change. for starters if you are not going to test your soil.
Do not use so much guano and reduce the neem cake.

I recommend you do a soil test on the base. Then add amendments based off what is lacking.
There are studies that show what nutrients are removed by plants over the course of a season.
Add the nutrient levels based on these values.
Hope that helps.

 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

2,709
263
no. send them in.

@leadsled I know this wouldn't effect a normal soil test, but how about a saturated paste test?
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
im also mathematically declined lol so that would be really helpful. i can also adjust my amendments since i have not mixed stuff up yet this year. i am however gonna be building myself a few huglekulture beds this year so im gonna use alot of nitrogen on it to help speed up the wood rotting/composting process. im not gonna use these beds this year though bc the real beauty of the huglekulture beds is the 2nd year and beyond.

i was wanting to get ur guys thoughts on "Michael Astera" product he is the author of a book called "the ideal soil". here is the link to his product that he says will grow awesome plants with water only. http://soilminerals.com/Agricolas4-8-4_MainPage.htm
I am happy to help with the math.

I like Michael Astera his book is excellent.
My perspective differs slightly on a few things.

IS someone approaching growing. from a chemistry background or a eco logical or biological perspective?

This is because I have learned from many different sources over the years. People that are into the microbiology and permaculture use a saying. "biology trumps chemistry". So there approach is usually to not mess with the chemistry and.or soil testing.


I like to try and think about both perspectives and how everything works together. Like in nature.

Biology dictates chemistry and chemistry dictates biology.


Michael astera like to use a what appears to be a more chemical approach of using higher levels when it comes to phosphorus. Does not take into account the biologys needs.

Maybe he is getting on board. He is now selling some biological amendments on his site.

Microbe man was tearing into him on ic mag about running a cult. LOL!
and now michael asters is carrying some biological amendments.

SO hope that explains my perspective. Not to discredit his perspective.

Maybe in time I learn that can:
use higher levels of P without: effecting availability of trace elements.Same goes for any effect it may have on mycorrhizae.
Otherwise I am going with the perspective of putting in what the biology wants.
Rather than try and use high levels of P to make up for the lack of biology.

Hope that make sense. With all due respect to all
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
no. send them in.

@leadsled I know this wouldn't effect a normal soil test, but how about a saturated paste test?
You make the statement: I know this.
What does this refer to?


I usually ask for the grower to make a plan and than make a budget for testing.
Than decide next steps.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

2,709
263
I was commenting on the post where the question was asked if you need to cook your soil before sending it in to Logan labs. I said no, it doesn't matter for a standard soil test. However I was wondering if saturated paste test would be effected by nutrients that are not yet mineralized.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
i am however gonna be building myself a few huglekulture beds this year so im gonna use alot of nitrogen on it to help speed up the wood rotting/composting process. im not gonna use these beds this year though bc the real beauty of the huglekulture beds is the 2nd year and beyond.
Are you cover-cropping your new hugels? :D Using legumes means you get some food outta the deal!
 
Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

337
63
I am happy to help with the math.

I like Michael Astera his book is excellent.
My perspective differs slightly on a few things.

IS someone approaching growing. from a chemistry background or a eco logical or biological perspective?

This is because I have learned from many different sources over the years. People that are into the microbiology and permaculture use a saying. "biology trumps chemistry". So there approach is usually to not mess with the chemistry and.or soil testing.


I like to try and think about both perspectives and how everything works together. Like in nature.

Biology dictates chemistry and chemistry dictates biology.


Michael astera like to use a what appears to be a more chemical approach of using higher levels when it comes to phosphorus. Does not take into account the biologys needs.

Maybe he is getting on board. He is now selling some biological amendments on his site.

Microbe man was tearing into him on ic mag about running a cult. LOL!
and now michael asters is carrying some biological amendments.

SO hope that explains my perspective. Not to discredit his perspective.

Maybe in time I learn that can:
use higher levels of P without: effecting availability of trace elements.Same goes for any effect it may have on mycorrhizae.
Otherwise I am going with the perspective of putting in what the biology wants.
Rather than try and use high levels of P to make up for the lack of biology.

Hope that make sense. With all due respect to all
i agree bro with everything u say. i try and approach it with both sides and to make the most ideal conditions. i seen that thread where MM was ripping him on IC lol it was funny as hell but as u say maybe hes doing it different. i didnt buy his mix but i been reading up on it and its really interesting
 
Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

337
63
Are you cover-cropping your new hugels? :D Using legumes means you get some food outta the deal!
i been thinking about buying those cover crop seeds. just a few days ago though a guy on GC told me about this method and i have been studying like hell on it. since i grow in the woods there will be plentiful rotten logs all over. after all i have studied so far im not 100% sure if i will plant in them this year. i may just build it up nicely at my plots that i intend to put them on and then just add some wiggle worm castings(i have a 30lb bag i wont use so this would be the perfect chance to unload it)horse manure,chicken manure,high N bat guano,alfalfa meal and some greensand and basalt. that will give the logs plenty of time to suck all the nitrogen up and also to gain a years worth of moisture. Afaik the best effects from these start on the 2nd year and gets better and better each following year. i will then have after a few years a huge pile of top grade humas
 
Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

337
63
Are you mixing soil growing in it once, and throwing it out???
Organics inputs can be water soluble and insoluble. Some are released quickly and others take more time.

I want to optimize things and be proactive.
Can measure things and then act based on the measurements.
Health care not sick care.

Is there a method to your approach of adding amendments?
Make mix: grow plants. Did they appear deficient? or did well? Than adjust mix accordingly?
Is there a a measurement to gauge the performance of what you are doing?
Is the test based on quality or quantity?

Qualative examples:
Soil testing, physical, chemical and biological.
Plant testing. brix ph ec, thc/cbd/cbn/
Quantative examples: Yield along with other values can be measured and tracked.

Are things getting better or worse?

You asked what you should change. for starters if you are not going to test your soil.
Do not use so much guano and reduce the neem cake.

I recommend you do a soil test on the base. Then add amendments based off what is lacking.
There are studies that show what nutrients are removed by plants over the course of a season.
Add the nutrient levels based on these values.
Hope that helps.
im using the soil over and over each year bro. the plants did great last year which is why im using it again this year, no def at all just beautiful smelly tasty buds. i just plant in it and water and let them do their thing. i never really have got to scientific on any of my grows. i just plant out in the forest and water the ladys and harvest. i been getting 275$ a ounce here for guerilla grown stuff and that is top dollar here in my little area. i just am gonna mix my own instead of buying the 1 c.f and having it shipped here to me to save on cost. thanks for the advice!
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
i been thinking about buying those cover crop seeds. just a few days ago though a guy on GC told me about this method and i have been studying like hell on it. since i grow in the woods there will be plentiful rotten logs all over. after all i have studied so far im not 100% sure if i will plant in them this year. i may just build it up nicely at my plots that i intend to put them on and then just add some wiggle worm castings(i have a 30lb bag i wont use so this would be the perfect chance to unload it)horse manure,chicken manure,high N bat guano,alfalfa meal and some greensand and basalt. that will give the logs plenty of time to suck all the nitrogen up and also to gain a years worth of moisture. Afaik the best effects from these start on the 2nd year and gets better and better each following year. i will then have after a few years a huge pile of top grade humas
That's a waste if you don't get something growing in there right now. Go to bulkfoods.com and buy the 5lb bag of fenugreek, get that in there. It'll never grow big, the microgreens are tasty edibles and then you get the seeds. The BEST way to get all of these things available is to create conditions suitable for the largest diversity of soil life, and the best way to do that is to get something growing in there. Do it! Doo eeet! :D
 
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