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hemployed
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GhostFace
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:harvest:
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Mr Dank
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ChickenJoe - your posting reminds me very much of somebody at ICMAG who got all bent out of shape when I wouldn't freely give them any of my strains. This all makes sense now...
M
Mr Dank
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In fact, now I think about it, I am willing to bet you are the douchebag from ICMAG who wanted to fight me for not freely passing you clones a few years ago. Big tough guy with the Southern Charm who used to threaten me constantly in PM's...yep...it all makes sense now
don't be hatin' because you can't get $4k anymore for beasters. Instead, step your game up
don't be hatin' because you can't get $4k anymore for beasters. Instead, step your game up
Green Mopho
- 1,056
- 83
Okay, this thread turned into a massive shit slingin' fest, I guess I should of figured that out from the beginning. The sad part is that 90% of the posters on this tread, really do have some of the best meds around, and we are connected through less than six degrees of separation. I know quite a few of you personally and consider some of you my friends, lets not draw lines in the sand and team up on each other...
I believe the old homage, "Capitalism has a way of ruining everything", and this is what is happening here. This is America we are in, Colorado or not, and the almighty dollar is still king, with very little sign of that changing. (Okay, it might go to the euro or amero, but thats another story). Top shelf cannabis used to cost ounce-per-ounce the same as gold, however since then we've hit a recession, and historically during any recession, the price of gold skyrockets, and cheap vices flood the market for the masses.
We also haven't been able to sort the legal market anymore, so most of the "true" top shelf seems to have gone back into the black market. Genetics also have a lot to do with it, not even necessarily what genetics are true fire or not, just what people want and what is in demand. The new laws and regulations have really done well to scramble that market up even more, where somewhere like Cali seems to have its connoisseur market laid out a little better, i.e. access! Things would of almost been sorted by now had the market been allowed to calm, had caregivers been able to wholesale legit...
I know I'll get flamed for saying I'm a transplant, but hey, I'm not from here and I don't have those same black market connects that people that were born and raised here have (or those that have been here 10+ years). In fact, I know a few people that are fully locals, born raised, been here 20+ years, etc. and they still haven't kept up those contacts and are just as lost as anyone new off the boat when it comes to the markets, dealing with craigslist or dispensaries, etc.
I know, I know, its all us transplants that fucked everything up, but you know what, I've had a SWAT team pointing rifles at my family, my dogs, and my head, destroy my home, and completely fuck my life up, and given the opportunity, I'll never go through that EVER again. Some of you may sympathize, however most of you will shrug this off as "your own fault", "blah, blah, blah", "go back to where you came from", "happens to everyone", etc. I've been fighting the fight and in the struggle A LOT longer than I've bothered to post about it on some internet forum and a lot longer than I've been growing "medical" marijuana in the new world order.
What Dorje said about most consumers just wanting a cheap high is basically true. We can angle this market towards a connoisseur model, but bickering about whose shit is better will never get us there. And keep in mind the big boys are all trying to put us out of biz, the quality game is all we really have to rock anymore. Even with all the beer heritage, microbrews, etc. in Colorado, you know what the #1 selling beer is in the state......Bud Lite, keep that in mind!
I personally believe that the government and big WalMart dispensaries are working with an agenda to devaluate our favorite product, working towards cheaper and cheaper production for the masses, until it becomes completely unprofitable to grow your own bud. Much like cigarettes and beer! You are (sort of) free to grow your own tobacco or brew your own beer in your backyard, and you can make some of the best shit on the planet to share with your homies, but its NOT economically feasible to try to sell that beer, it will cost you more to produce it at the highest quality on that scale than the market will allow for you to sell it. And if and when you get too big for your little home operation, Uncle Sam will come and slap the shit out of you with taxes, fines, regulations, licenses, fees, to the point where it will only be worthwhile to do it on a big scale and go head to head with the big boys! And quality control becomes much harder the larger and larger you scale things. Anyone seen the documentary "Beer Wars"?
Now lets take the current state of "caregiving". Lets agree that most caregivers in the state are NOT growing for sick and dying cancer, AIDS, MS, etc. patients. No person with a soul can charge a sick dying person $4k per pound, that shit just isn't right. And playing legit doesn't really allow for selling (at least wholesaleing) pounds, so its black market for those high ends. Do i doubt that people are still getting $4k for the finest shit around on the local black market, no I don't, sounds very plausible if willing to go that route. Is the local black market inter-connected with other black markets and can therefore reflect "export" prices? especially when paired with unique high quality?, Absolutely. Do some of us not want that hassle and just not deal with the risk at all and stay legit with patients, numbers, weights, etc? Absolutely...End of Conversation. It seems the market is very unstable and dynamic right now, anything can happen, prices are relative to who you know, what "catch phrase" names or genetics it might be, and how hard you are willing to push it. I've seen some shitty ass unflushed indoor hydro grown OG fetching high dollar amounts, $3.8k+, mostly because of "bag appeal". Marketing and Advertisement goes along way....
I believe the old homage, "Capitalism has a way of ruining everything", and this is what is happening here. This is America we are in, Colorado or not, and the almighty dollar is still king, with very little sign of that changing. (Okay, it might go to the euro or amero, but thats another story). Top shelf cannabis used to cost ounce-per-ounce the same as gold, however since then we've hit a recession, and historically during any recession, the price of gold skyrockets, and cheap vices flood the market for the masses.
We also haven't been able to sort the legal market anymore, so most of the "true" top shelf seems to have gone back into the black market. Genetics also have a lot to do with it, not even necessarily what genetics are true fire or not, just what people want and what is in demand. The new laws and regulations have really done well to scramble that market up even more, where somewhere like Cali seems to have its connoisseur market laid out a little better, i.e. access! Things would of almost been sorted by now had the market been allowed to calm, had caregivers been able to wholesale legit...
I know I'll get flamed for saying I'm a transplant, but hey, I'm not from here and I don't have those same black market connects that people that were born and raised here have (or those that have been here 10+ years). In fact, I know a few people that are fully locals, born raised, been here 20+ years, etc. and they still haven't kept up those contacts and are just as lost as anyone new off the boat when it comes to the markets, dealing with craigslist or dispensaries, etc.
I know, I know, its all us transplants that fucked everything up, but you know what, I've had a SWAT team pointing rifles at my family, my dogs, and my head, destroy my home, and completely fuck my life up, and given the opportunity, I'll never go through that EVER again. Some of you may sympathize, however most of you will shrug this off as "your own fault", "blah, blah, blah", "go back to where you came from", "happens to everyone", etc. I've been fighting the fight and in the struggle A LOT longer than I've bothered to post about it on some internet forum and a lot longer than I've been growing "medical" marijuana in the new world order.
What Dorje said about most consumers just wanting a cheap high is basically true. We can angle this market towards a connoisseur model, but bickering about whose shit is better will never get us there. And keep in mind the big boys are all trying to put us out of biz, the quality game is all we really have to rock anymore. Even with all the beer heritage, microbrews, etc. in Colorado, you know what the #1 selling beer is in the state......Bud Lite, keep that in mind!
I personally believe that the government and big WalMart dispensaries are working with an agenda to devaluate our favorite product, working towards cheaper and cheaper production for the masses, until it becomes completely unprofitable to grow your own bud. Much like cigarettes and beer! You are (sort of) free to grow your own tobacco or brew your own beer in your backyard, and you can make some of the best shit on the planet to share with your homies, but its NOT economically feasible to try to sell that beer, it will cost you more to produce it at the highest quality on that scale than the market will allow for you to sell it. And if and when you get too big for your little home operation, Uncle Sam will come and slap the shit out of you with taxes, fines, regulations, licenses, fees, to the point where it will only be worthwhile to do it on a big scale and go head to head with the big boys! And quality control becomes much harder the larger and larger you scale things. Anyone seen the documentary "Beer Wars"?
Now lets take the current state of "caregiving". Lets agree that most caregivers in the state are NOT growing for sick and dying cancer, AIDS, MS, etc. patients. No person with a soul can charge a sick dying person $4k per pound, that shit just isn't right. And playing legit doesn't really allow for selling (at least wholesaleing) pounds, so its black market for those high ends. Do i doubt that people are still getting $4k for the finest shit around on the local black market, no I don't, sounds very plausible if willing to go that route. Is the local black market inter-connected with other black markets and can therefore reflect "export" prices? especially when paired with unique high quality?, Absolutely. Do some of us not want that hassle and just not deal with the risk at all and stay legit with patients, numbers, weights, etc? Absolutely...End of Conversation. It seems the market is very unstable and dynamic right now, anything can happen, prices are relative to who you know, what "catch phrase" names or genetics it might be, and how hard you are willing to push it. I've seen some shitty ass unflushed indoor hydro grown OG fetching high dollar amounts, $3.8k+, mostly because of "bag appeal". Marketing and Advertisement goes along way....
Green Mopho
- 1,056
- 83
Nice to see you around again!
sky high
- 4,796
- 313
IMO....
What is never revealed in these "how bad it was where >>I<< came from" stories is that those of us who lived here and grew BEFORE we passed med laws here faced the same situation as all of you did >wherever< you were living. >>>Guaranteed<<<
THAT is WHY the stories of fear and woe from other states ring hollow for me.
Some of these folks seem to think WE'VE ALWAYS HAD PROTECTION FROM ARREST HERE in Colorado.....which just ain't true...not even close. Shit...we didn't even have SOLID protection as med patients until about 2008!
And damn if we WEREN'T GETTING SOMEWHERE....that is...until the craziness of 2009-2010....>whoever< caused it.... and now...THE BACKLASH OF 2011 has arrived...
sadly...we are EXPORTING our legacy and states like MT, WA...and many more in the future will NOT have freedoms that are >anywhere< close to the freedoms so many (transplant or not) here TAKE FOR GRANTED.
be safe >wherever< yer at.
s h
Texas Kid
Some guy with a light
- 4,159
- 263
Another one that knows absolutely nothing Ima guessin...4k an lb all day, not sure what yall are growin or pushing but 4k on singles for dank is the rate, 3200-3500 for 5 boxes and 2800-3200 for 10 boxes...out of state is a whole different animal..oh yea, there are people paying $300-$350 an oz out there every day, alot of them in fact. $2800 lbs is uaually $2800 an lb weed and not $4k a lb weed, pretty simple.
Oh and cough blows IMO, I don't care who grew it, I have ran strawberry cough, cough, Foco cough, colorado cough and a few direvitives and none have stood out at all......CBF is the only one I can even think of that even made cough somewhat pleasant for the masses..
Tex
D
DoobyScoo
- 432
- 0
M
Mr Dank
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First of all, as far as the caregiver part goes. I never said I personally sell meds to sick patients for $4k. In fact, I never said "I" sold anything for $4k. I just simply said that true top shelf meds still bring $4k. If a dispensary would charge $40 for this being their top shelf, then why would it be a problem if "joe blow delivery service" sells it for that price? HB1284 shut down many caregiving services, and pushed it into the hands of the big dispensaries that could afford the new regulations. The people who couldn't afford the new regulations, or the ones who had a felony for growing were forced to do one of 2 things. Quit, or go back underground. The passionate ones chose to go back underground, not quit. One year ago, you could have 25 patients. After hb1284 you could either still serve 6 and tell the other 19 to buzz off...or you could go back underground and still provide stellar meds to them. Many patients are fine smoking sub-par meds, yet at the same time many others would rather pay the extra $10-15/eighth for FIRE meds. Not everybody is content smoking garbage. Then again, these people are also the same people who wouldn't step foot in a dispensary, nor would they smoke their $150/oz specials
That scenerio applies to many people in this scene. At $4k, that breaks down to $250/oz. A lb of top shelf can easily be sold by the oz, at $300/oz in less than 2 hours. The grower makes $4k, the delivery guy makes $6-800, and the patient gets an oz for $275-300. On top of that, every single patient is aware of craigslist, and the $150/oz's in the back of the Westword. Not everybody prefers McDonalds and beasters
GreenThumbBill
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Like green mopho said, it mostly comes down to who you know. Lucky for you, you know the right people. If you brought me a lb of your 4k weed I could only get 3k for it. That's a fact.
GreenThumbBill
- 909
- 93
Finding 16 red card carrying patients who would pay $300/oz in Colorado nowadays would take me 2 years, not 2 hours.
Maybe the issue comes down to black market vs med market. Perhaps the thread should be titled, "Price of a black market pound" or "price of a med patient pound."
true grit
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Exactly. Some folks just aint growing $4k/lb weed. period. I don't see it too often, but I sure as shit see "dank" that deserves $2800-3000 a pop....all the time.
That why he keeps coming back, it gets annoying that people don't believe whats happening all the time.
that's exactly the point. It comes down to product and clientele. If you would like to make more than $3k, then you will need to either step up your product or clientele.
That sucks to hear, but doesn't mean others can't sling em for $300 ALL day. And its not black market vs. med market, its plain the price you can get for you good buds.
D
DoobyScoo
- 432
- 0
First off, the Med market (disps) is the Black market!
Second, it does help to know people. Hell I know of one person who was still buying 1/4s for a hundred.
In a commodities market it is a combination of both buyer and seller defining what is the grading scale, to achieve efficiency.
This market is far from 'efficient'.
GreenThumbBill
- 909
- 93
LOL, how does one "step up" their clientele? Is there a book out there titled, "how to meet yuppies and trustafarian cannabis connaseurs in a recession?" :anim_09:
My current "clientele" a.k.a. patients, are long time friends, friends of friends and folks I met over the last few years while vending who sold their dispensaries post 1284. I guess I was naive to assume this type of a patient mix was about the norm leaning to the luckier than most side of the spectrum?
And, It totally comes down to black market VS. Med market because to sell 16, 300 zones you have to break the law. It is only legal to sell to 5 patients, remember? So somebody in the chain is breaking the law whether it's the grower or the supplier. And, as a compliant grower you would need to make sure the supplier taking the risk is one of your signed patients. Probably pretty competitive to get a distributor who has the kind of clientele to sell 16 zips for 300 a pop in 2hrs to sign you as their sole caregiver.
So maybe about 5% of the total growers in CO are getting 4k/lb. I don't think that justifies an argument that 4k is in any way representative of what growers here are pulling on average.
Oh and for the record, enough respectable people have chimed in that I have to believe 4k/lb is possible. I just highly doubt it's anywhere close to the norm, or average. Maybe 5-10% at most? 2800-3200 = AVERAGE?
true grit
- 6,269
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No theres no book, its called having a better product that people want. some MMC's do it. cali market has high price clientele still while everyone there bitches about low prices- its everywhere. You either have the dankest product or know clientele/circles/patients that are willing to pay for the top shelf. Just like when folks could sell to dispensaries- the best shit never hit shelves and would go for more than whats on shelves.
You can act like everyone is doing things legal if it fits your logic/justification, but reality is most aren't doing everything legal so thats kinda dumb point. This "online forum" community and the few opinions/prices shown on here are a small portion of whats going on.
You can act like everyone is doing things legal if it fits your logic/justification, but reality is most aren't doing everything legal so thats kinda dumb point. This "online forum" community and the few opinions/prices shown on here are a small portion of whats going on.
Green Mopho
- 1,056
- 83
Very true, I know of a few people still willing to pay extra $$$ for rare dank, but I also know a handful of people that are trying to get as much as they can for as little as possible, this is America and we are in a recession. I think patients that are really looking for quality and are willing to pay extra, but don't have the same contacts we speak about, are just as much at a loss as the growers sitting on dank with no contacts. Thats where 1284 fucked everything up. I steady meet patients everyday that aren't happy with MMC herb or are looking for that super specialness and can't find it. The clientele is definitely out there, and the herb is definitely out there, the problem is the market got so convoluted and scrambled, producer and consumer are having trouble finding each other, while the middleman is only out to make a buck. I'm sure if you sat outside a dispensary and caught guys coming out with B grade buds and showed them your stuff, you would be able to do a $50 or $60 eighth sale with 1 out of 3 people, easy, and I'm sure most of em would go back into the dispensary and ask for their money back and ask why they got sold such trash compared to what they just scored on the street. Everything is out of whack in that respect.
And I'm not trying to step on anyones bright and shiny boots here, I wasn't calling anyone out, I'm sorry if I quoted you from another thread, etc. I am trying to be objective and refraining from using subjects in my statements such as "I", "me", or "you", outside of the hypothetical.
So while we are taking it personal, I will tell a story of a Fort Collins patient that drove out and bought some of my herb out on the western slope, and returned to his "home" MMC in Fort Collins to specifically show them that herb and ask them why they didn't carry stuff of that caliber. True story...
Pre-1284, I was getting 3800-4000 all day for damn near every strain, easy, from reputable shops around me, didn't have to drive far. I know a few shops got some of my super dank and it never hit the shelves, I could hear the owner of the shop telling his "budtender" to set that aside as their headstash. Only time I had to shop the dirty Denver disps. was when I ran those cardboard-tasting Sensi Hash Plant crap phenos that I didn't keep...but thats the gamble with cracking seeds, total shit phenos!
But the same guys that were bashing dispensaries pre-1284 were selling to them, and those same guys are still bashing dispensaries...I don't know what that says about you or your herb, but it seems to lack consistency. Don't get me wrong, I'm not gung-ho about dispensaries either, 90% of them are run by bumbling idiots that couldn't tell a pistil from a bract, let alone a sativa or indica. They are almost totally in it for the money, but that was something the market would of weeded out had the old wholesale model stuck. Like Dorje and DoobyScoo said, the concept of a shop where patients can openly buy medication is pretty much how a legitimate industry should be, on a retail end at least, its greed, fear, and politics that seem to have mucked all that up.
GreenThumbBill
- 909
- 93
So you think the bucky pillows in the skymall magazine are actually worth twice as much as the ones at walmart?
See, I would argue that they aren't and in fact the only reason sky mall is able to sell at such high prices is that the people reading it, are busy, bored, execs with more money than consumer sense who correlate high price with high quality.
Bringing my analogy back to weed, I think the difference between A and A+ is entirely subjective to the person grading it and/or using it. Since there is currently no proprietary system that is used to grade it's all pretty much the same once you reach a certain level of quality and price/value comes down to other factors.
GreenThumbBill
- 909
- 93
I hope somebody smarter than myself designs a website or starts a company to address this issue. It would be an invaluable service for everyone if we could legally create a way to bring grower and end user together and remove the the need for middle men and dispensaries.
The current model is so bassackwards.
Green Mopho
- 1,056
- 83
People have tried, I've seen a few of those types of website here in CO. Never works, not many people want to risk an internet-meet-up to score some potentially better meds. The model that works is the thousand year old model, a brick and mortar retail outlet, where people can come browse your selection and if not satisfied, go to your competitor or elsewhere. However, our current system hinders this "natural selection" and pushes all the top quality underground as the wholesale producers are NOT the same as the wholesome producers. Its like finding good fruit and produce in America, most of it is sooo shity, that people actually think the tomatoes and strawberries at Whole Foods actually taste good because the price is higher and there is an "Organic" sticker on it, when it actuality, it was only grown 51% organic, and still picked before it was ripe and artificially ripened with "organic" ethylene gas. The only truly well grown organic fruits are from people's private gardens and backyards, and the big corps won't let them sell to the large outlets. And then you'd be surprised to find when you actually have to balls to travel to a third world country that they have amazingly tasting better fruit and produce than we do in America....fuck medical marijuana, I'm moving to Uruguay...
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