Problems with GO CaMg+ vs Botanicare Cal-Mag?

[Seamaiden]

Mornin' farmers, I've got an issue that's been hanging on for some time now and I could use a little insight. Only two of the four strains are really showing this, those being The White and Shut The Fuck Up. The Bubba and Orange Kushes all look pretty good, if not slightly overfed (huh? even using PBP @ 1-2tsp/gal?).

15 girls, four different strains, all in Botanicare coco (the 5kg bale), rinsed and pre-charged, amended with about 30% perlite, worm castings. Got a flowering run started and then there was a death in the family, had to go out of the country for a week after spending a week out of town, had to leave two unknowledgeable people in charge of my girls. So I had them mix the RO water 50/50 with tap (well) water, and I think this is or was the beginning of my problem.

Looks like a magnesium imbalance or deficiency, been playing around with upping the Mg by adding Epsom salt and reducing the CaMg+, whose ratio of Ca to Mg is 5:1, not the 3:1 that I was getting with the Botanicare stuff. By adding Epsoms I seem to have somewhat alleviated the problem, but haven't completely eliminated it.

I have no TDS/EC/ppm meter yet, but I do test pH. Going in it was around 5.3-5.4 (the GO CaMg+ is what does this!), have added Silicablast two weeks ago to the mix and I get it to 5.8-6.0, the sweet spot. Run-off is between 7.4-7.8, did three flushes and didn't really get it down and I was afraid to do more flushes because we are a month into flowering and these girls have some growing to do for me. It's only a couple of strains that are showing the problem.

I've got a 2yo constantly at my sleeve so I'm pretty sure I'm leaving out information.


Base nutes are:
CaMg+
PBP Bloom
malted barley extract/molasses (1tsp/gal or less)
Silicablast


Added on a regular basis are the following:
powdered Koolbloom
liquid Koolbloom
AN Big Bud
kelp extract/MaxiCrop
FloraMicro
Liquid Karma
SM-90

Coupla recent pix for your perusal as well. I see some slight leaf twisting, as well as some leaf edges raised up. And then, of course, the lower leaves with the interveinal chlorosis and margins browning, along with some leaf tips browning and dying.

Hope these show up, they're not showing in my preview.

 

[cheyenne]

Is it just normal die off during flowering? You look pretty far along there.

 

[sedate]

Is it just normal die off during flowering? You look pretty far along there.

^^^ That. +1.

Um - seamaiden - that garden looks lovely.

It seems to me you're overthinking it.

powdered Koolbloom
liquid Koolbloom
AN Big Bud
kelp extract/MaxiCrop
FloraMicro
Liquid Karma
SM-90

Um. Yea. You're overthinking it.

I see some slight leaf twisting, as well as some leaf edges raised up. And then, of course, the lower leaves with the interveinal chlorosis and margins browning, along with some leaf tips browning and dying.

OMG. I think the word you are looking for is "senesense."

Week 5? Yes?

You're fine. Cut back on all the double-dipping of nutes.

You've covered your bases 6 times over with that salvo of crap.

Pick an NPK. Pick a cal-mag. Keep it under 1000ppms. Get a meter.

I've got a 2yo constantly at my sleeve so I'm pretty sure I'm leaving out information.

Look. Whatever you do - don't overanalyze the kid like this. . . okay?

 

[ent]

the tops look fine, it is as if you're losing some of your fan/sun leaves early. like you were saying it could be a lack of mg- but it looks like a nitrogen issue maybe caused by mg. i'd give them 1/4 shot of N with the mg on the next watering to see if the issue stops progressing and maybe you start to see some healing. perhaps cut down on your other supplements except for the karma or kelp AND your PK.

your garden does look lovely and if you continue the way you're going, you'd still end up with great beautiful buds. but i think it is fixing and understanding these minor issues, especially when they only arise in 1/2 your strains, is what makes a plant completely 'dialed in'. g'luck.

 

[Integra21]

This is a very common problem when running different strains. Most plants have slightly different nutrient needs and having shared nutrients can give exactly what you got, some looking perfectly happy and others not so much. If you can isolate the problem ones and try to change their nutrient regiment slightly until the desired perk up is achieved. But getting that ph to level off might make it all go away. I know it is very easy for me to do with my dwc, but I have no idea what you have to do to correct it in coco.

 

[cemchris]

I noticed that moving from botanicare calmg to the general organic on I had to bump it up quite a bit. Botanicare I would run about 5-7ml per gallon. The GO I run at 10-15ml per gallon.

 

[Integra21]

Glad you had better luck than me with the GO calmag. All I can say is I mixed GO Camag and bioroot into my FoxFarm lineup in my dwc setup and it murdered my entire crop. So just a heads up, dont do that combination. Glad it seems like it was more of a fluke and that have seen people using the GO lineup with decent results.

 

[2broke2smoke]

i have been using botanacare cal-mag for about 7 years no problems at all , why would u change if it was working well?

2b2s

 

[Seamaiden]

Not exactly the answers I expected, but thank you all for your insight. Thank you for the compliments as well.

I have used Botanicare Cal-Mag+ once, and then got this GO stuff, which I wanted to try because I'd like to keep things as organic/natural as possible. Never expected it to drop pH (<5.0 at times, usually around 5.0), and I was wondering if because it's also a different ratio whether or not those two factors might not be playing well together.

30 days flower was on the 23rd, I expect to take this batch to around 70 days or so. I don't expect to see this yellowing just yet, not for another week or two.

Thanks for taking a moment to look and offer up your opinions. :)

 

[sedate]

30 days flower was on the 23rd,

Huh. That would be 4 weeks 6 days.

Week 5? Yes?

Damn I'm good.

:banana1sv6:


No seriously seamaiden - that garden looks great.

Maybe you'll get the garden a weekish earlier than 70 days?

I mean - you're indoors, clearly well lit & properly nuted, and are running pretty average size plants.

Methinks you'll finish at 60ish no problem judging by those pics.

 

[Seamaiden]

Finishing ten days earlier is always a plus. I'll put that in my notes so I can keep a closer track as we approach that 50 day mark for the flush.
:) Thanks, sedate.

 

[Blaze]

Yeah I wouldn't worry too much about it Sea overall they look real nice. Big improvement over your last run IMO, good work =)

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm starting to get that "can't wait to try that smoke" mouthwatering thing going on.

 

[JayBee]

I got a bottle of the GO calmag and wish i had not. I wanted to try it because it was organic and more because no N for flowering.

Anyway, SM, i think with all those nutes you really need a meter. The GO calmag is very hot too.

JB

 

[sedate]

Finishing ten days earlier is always a plus. I'll put that in my notes so I can keep a closer track as we approach that 50 day mark for the flush.

That's a soil run?

I'd be harvesting at maybe 62 - 64 looking at those pics with a flush starting @ 50.

Anyway, SM, i think with all those nutes you really need a meter. The GO calmag is very hot too.

Absolutely. A TDS meter is a must for any serious grower.

Furthermore seamaiden, you wouldn't have all those pH issues if you just picked a product line and stuck with it. I use Botanicare exclusively and my pH is stuck at 6.2 - 6.5 depending on ppm. I never need to dick with it.

Anecdotally, most people with pH issues and random lockouts are people with a nutso nute list like you have - you can simplify tremendously - with equivalent or better results.

Too many different ways to sythesize NPK and cal-mag - all the sufates and shit hanging off the NPK elements can wreck havok with each other once they are mixed together. These inherent chemical conflicts are why NPK and cal-mag are sold seperately when they are concentrated. (There are some recently released one-part concentrates, like CNS and shit, but I don't trust/know how those work yet . . . )

Anyway, keep us posted on the garden there seamaiden.

 

[Seamaiden]

A LOT of people have said to simplify. It's funny, I've gone the opposite route of many others I know. Started off going cheap and simple and almost exclusively organic, then once things got going and my appetite was whetted, I started spending a little money on nutes. Thusly, the experimentation.

This is a coco run. Which is another experiment/learning experience, every run is a learning experience.

I did make some more changes to the garden, though, based on some things folks have been saying about how I was using the bulbs. Brought in and set up the second tray, then split the lights, one over each tray, and dropped them down so they're more "inside" the canopy.

I've gone back through my notes, back to before my grandfather passed, and except for not using the PBP Grow (Bloom instead) I was doing alright with the GO CaMg+, though the girls were very, very dark green. So I've been giving them the same levels of CaMg+ as back then, 5mls/gallon, no more Epsom salt, keeping the reduced rate of PBP Bloom. To clarify, all those other things are occasional additions, they are not used every feeding.

As ever, I have a list of "need to get". Need to get a TDS/EC meter (from what I've read it's almost useless in organics and EC is the best unit of measurement with chemical salt fertilizers). Need to get a pair of parabolic vertizontals. And so on.

Thanks again for everyone's help and suggestions, both posted here and sent privately. I appreciate it when people share their hard-earned experience and knowledge.

 

[true grit]

I noticed that moving from botanicare calmg to the general organic on I had to bump it up quite a bit. Botanicare I would run about 5-7ml per gallon. The GO I run at 10-15ml per gallon.

Yes I noticed this too. I was up around 12-14ml/g with the GO CaMg+. And it took at least 12ml/g to make em happy. Botanicare they were happy around 7-10ml/g.

i have been using botanacare cal-mag for about 7 years no problems at all , why would u change if it was working well?

2b2s

Folks are just trying to expand to those "organic" options!

I have to agree with Ent- I think its just a bit light on nitrogen a bit early. If you kept the GO CaMg+ at the same rate you were feeding at the beginnin of flower then you would probably need to up that to a lil. Like jaybee said I was up past 10ml/g before they were happy with the GO. Stuff worked great but having to use so much I went through it like crazy- not as efficient as others.

Ya do have quite a bit going on there, but sticking with one brand isn't a big deal. Check out the Calplex (not sure by who). its organic too and no mg. I use other boosters that have Mg and from runnin nutes, haven't really found a base nute lacking in it yet, and since switching to Calplex I have seen '0' mg deficiencies...

 

[motherlode]

anybody else like technaflora magi-cal? I have only used cal mag and magi-cal, but I way prefer magi-cal!

 

[Integra21]

anybody else like technaflora magi-cal? I have only used cal mag and magi-cal, but I way prefer magi-cal!

I love Magical. I think its why my girls are generally so happy. I use the whole technaflora lineup with great results. Check out my current grow in my sig.

 

[cemchris]

The funny thing is calmg is calmg. I bought the GO to try it and it was cheaper by a couple bucks. In the end I used more so really didnt save anything. If you are running coco with RO Bump it up almost double.

GO isnt hot. At 10ml a gal I'm still under 100 ppms base water.

Calplex is Organicare. Good Info TG will give it a whirl.