Problems with GO CaMg+ vs Botanicare Cal-Mag?

[ent]

nobody mentioned sensical.

 

[Seamaiden]

Would that make this thread non-sensical?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist (and it was the best I could think of).

So, I made some other changes based on folks' suggestions and comments. Hopefully this works well for the finish. I still plan on picking up a pair of parabolics soon, but will wait to install them. It certainly makes tending them much, much easier in terms of getting to them and seeing what's going on with each one, instead of wiggling the pot to see which branches shake.

 

[sedate]

A LOT of people have said to simplify. It's funny, I've gone the opposite route of many others I know. Started off going cheap and simple and almost exclusively organic, then once things got going and my appetite was whetted, I started spending a little money on nutes.

Dude that's exactly what I did when I started again last July.

I began with Espoma brand organics - bone/blood meal, cottonseed meal, and sea kelp, and mixed that in with Happy Frog, castings, and extra perlite.

Sadly, the results were - inconsistent would be the most forgiving word.

The experience gave me much more appreciation for the iron grip-control that one gets from precisely designed chemical fertilizers.

Ya do have quite a bit going on there, but sticking with one brand isn't a big deal.

Um. Yes it is.

Jumping brands and manufacture methods allows for the possibility of different structures attached to different formulations of NPK - like the ions hanging off the carbonates and sulfates and shit - will intereact in ways the grower cannot anticipate or diagnose easily.

Stick with one brand.

Any of the big manufacturers - AN, GO, EarthJuice, Botanicare - are designed for each other and to work synergistically - not to react together inside the solute and create stupid pH problems and random lockouts that are a pain to fix and diagnose.

 

[Oregonic]

I have been using GO calmag along with bioroot, biothrive bloom and biobud. I was doing good at 10ml for the first 2 weeks but have had to increase slightly, 15ml seems to be the magic unit for weeks 4-5.

I have been going through the bioroot and calmag like crazy, biothrive goes fast too as 20ml a shot. Biobud is pricey but at 5ml it will be around a while :)

FF + GO = DEATH! I just walked away from the tiger bloom still have over a half bottle on the shelf, shit can be brutal!

 

[true grit]

Um. Yes it is.

Jumping brands and manufacture methods allows for the possibility of different structures attached to different formulations of NPK - like the ions hanging off the carbonates and sulfates and shit - will intereact in ways the grower cannot anticipate or diagnose easily.

Stick with one brand.

Any of the big manufacturers - AN, GO, EarthJuice, Botanicare - are designed for each other and to work synergistically - not to react together inside the solute and create stupid pH problems and random lockouts that are a pain to fix and diagnose.

Really? Cuz I've never used one solid line, I've never had these lockouts you speak of, never had ph problems, think my grows kinda speak for themselves in that area. I've switched nutrient regimens 3-4 times in the last year, tried 4 companies, mixed and matched all nutes and have yet to have a subpar crop due to nutes- though I have had subpar genetics. Only time i experienced close to lockout/ph issues is mixing my own super soil- which didn't have enough humics/calcium. Now i am on my 2nd or 3rd different medium to play with (coco this time) and geez...still mix matching and still and getting phenomenal results.

Start with a base nute- see what its composition is. Then determine your PK booster- then apply it accordingly to concentration, pick your calcium (if you need it), carbs if you choose, and most importantly to avoid all these issues you speak of- such as ionic bonds out of ideal ranges- HUMIC, FULVICS, and CHELATED nutes. Maybe i don't have these issues you speak of because of treating my rootzone and soil to avoid issues such as those.

AN- yeah I will use their base nutes, but will go with someone elses Calcium additive (organicare) and bloom booster.

GO/GH- Used their bio-root, cal mag, etc... won't use em, due to concentration and insolubility. But their Diamond Black was a great humic additive for a great price....Lotta folks use GH 3pt with additives from all over the spectrum.

Botanicare- like the organicare line, calplex and calmag. Seems everybody uses calmag+ in whatever line they use. But many of their other additives are not things I would prefer. Don't need fake fruit tastes in a carb load. Or Humega/Fulvex. Might try this against the Humic 12 for comparison in hydro/coco systems.

Basically my point is that every nutrient line has its high points and its not so high points. If you can manage your root zone to improve uptake you can experiment and determine which are more effective...with less detriment to your plants.

 

[sedate]

Really? Cuz I've never used one solid line, I've never had these lockouts you speak of, never had ph problems, think my grows kinda speak for themselves in that area.

Yes really.

Um - but I think if we argue it out this is going to resemble our Denver tap water spat.

I'll argue that you just have good luck, you'll say that I'm being unreasonably careful . . .

Anyway - I don't think its a good idea - nay, I think it is extreamly risky - to jump product lines - especially for NPK and calmag.

Base nutes - calmag - a bloom boost - be done.

But many of their other additives are not things I would prefer. Don't need fake fruit tastes in a carb load

Fucking eh. I can make 200 gallons of Sweet for $20 from phytotechlab. That shit is fucking worthless.

 

[true grit]

Agreed, plus though on topic, we are digressing from the original topic intention. And for the record, I do not think you are unreasonably careful, it's obvious you pay very close attention to your plants, aint nothin wrong with that. And also, I'm not lucky, its consistency and attention to detail like yourself. I experiment in safe ranges and with the proper other shit, i don't have problems. I'm on my what 3rd, 4th calcium additive this year? All plants are fine, all came out dank and I can say I like GO calmg the least and Calplex the best. Who knows what woulda happened had I tried Calibur20! LOL.

 

[Seamaiden]

I have been using GO calmag along with bioroot, biothrive bloom and biobud. I was doing good at 10ml for the first 2 weeks but have had to increase slightly, 15ml seems to be the magic unit for weeks 4-5.

I have been going through the bioroot and calmag like crazy, biothrive goes fast too as 20ml a shot. Biobud is pricey but at 5ml it will be around a while :)

FF + GO = DEATH! I just walked away from the tiger bloom still have over a half bottle on the shelf, shit can be brutal!

With the way the GO drops pH, that alone can be a problem if it's not monitored closely, at least in certain situations. I have always used Big Bloom, though, and despite all the warnings my friends have given me about it making EC readings go crazy (it *is* organic, after all), all the frowns and head-shaking, I still find it super easy to use, even if you do have to use kind of a lot.

Agreed, plus though on topic, we are digressing from the original topic intention. And for the record, I do not think you are unreasonably careful, it's obvious you pay very close attention to your plants, aint nothin wrong with that. And also, I'm not lucky, its consistency and attention to detail like yourself. I experiment in safe ranges and with the proper other shit, i don't have problems. I'm on my what 3rd, 4th calcium additive this year? All plants are fine, all came out dank and I can say I like GO calmg the least and Calplex the best. Who knows what woulda happened had I tried Calibur20! LOL.

In MY opinion it, being the differences between your and sedate's styles of growing and methodology, actually hinges on your overall knowledge base.

It's just like with miniature reefkeeping. I always hear people say how they'd love to have a marine aquarium, but can't keep up with the work or expense. When the truest fact of the matter is that you can indeed do it on a shoestring budget, and it doesn't have to take that much more work than a freshwater aquarium. But you can NOT, in any way, shape or form do so without adequate knowledge.

Knowledge is power, even if ignorance is bliss.

With all that being said, I'm going to be out of my GO CaMg+ very soon, so I'm debating going back to the Botanicare, or trying something else. I prefer as natural/organic as possible, and no nitrogen. I think I'm going to put on my big girl panties and hit a new LOCAL hydro shop. If they're good, then oh my God, what a fantasy come true! I will no longer have to drive over 45 miles just to hit the next nearest good one.

 

[true grit]

For sure.... the best things that happened to my growing was the homies Medic and Coast opening my eyes to humics, fulvics and chelates. Since using those everything has had a much better buffer and more realistic and obvious results.

And bro- try the Calplex for a run. Sounds like its fits your bill- OMRI cert organic, nitrogen free. And Its cheap to try, like $12 a bottle and you only need like 6-8ml/g compared to the other shit that requires 10-12ml/g. Its worth a try and doubt your base nutes are lacking in Mag.

 

[Seamaiden]

Sister! :makeup

I'll be more than happy to try out the Calplex.

Oh! You mentioned Humega I think it was, and I recently learned of another humic source that is *not* mined from leonardite, but damn if I can remember what it's called. I like to use humics (I started off with MicroHume) especially when I'm using chemical salt fertilizers.

 

[true grit]

Yeah they changed fulvex to Humega.... I'll have to check out the composition for sure. Humic bind differently than fulvics...humics do soil/rootzone, and fulvics actually bond with the plant if I remember correctly... liking the Humic12 from AgeOld but most are pretty close unless they get into the type of chelates used, then you can determine quality of the chelates.

One reason I'm trying the AN, they build in humic/fulvic and extra chelates in the base nutes. This is why they and others are getting "ph smart" technology. They are just helping the plant uptake when conditions are not ideal or in range.

 

[SmokeyPipes]

Has anyone tried Equilibrium by Humbolt Nutrients yet?

 

[Seamaiden]

I went on a mission a couple of months ago to find a source of fulvic. Everyone was out. They *thought* they had something in stock, and then when we went and read labels, it wasn't a fulvic product.

Smokey, the only HN product I have and have tried is their Roots Excel. Neat container, but the print is so tiny that even using a loupe it's unreadable. Smells kinda funky, doesn't work as well as H&G RE, IMO. What's Equilibrium, and what's it supposed to do?

 

[SmokeyPipes]

It's there new Cal/Mag supplement It's Natural with 1-1-2 on the label,only uses 1-5 ml per gallon,got a free sample at the THC expo in april

 

[Seamaiden]

That's kind of a lot of nitrogen for something that would need to be used at least halfway through flower. I really like to be able to control nitrogen much more finely throughout flowering, lay it on 'em during veg but not in flower. That result is neither pretty nor very good to smoke.

What's it run?

Thanks for that info, Smokey. I'll look for it when I hit the shop tomorrow. I like those kinds of use rates quite a lot.

 

[true grit]

Whats the application rate? It appears thats just a base nute with extra calmg for RO systems. What do they mean if you are running AN base nutes you won't need it? Then why create an RO based calmg added product? I use RO and AN now, bet I still have to add Cal. It is in their Micro part of G/B/M, but doubt it will be enough. Almost every base nute has some Calcium added if theres micros, just not enough for RO systems.

 

[ent]

Here's what i have. Looks like they changed up the label and the formula. I would expect nothing less from AN. Heh. Mine are pretty old, so I think GoD has the new formula although I could be wrong.

http://invalid.com/10HmH.jpg

 

[SmokeyPipes]

Heres the info on Equillibrium from HN:

Equilibrium Natural can be applied to all crops including vegetable crops, row crops, field crops, trees, vines, ornamentals, gardens and landscaping. Add to fertilizer mix for plants growing in soil, potting mixes, soil-less rooting media and hydroponics. Equilibrium Natural can also be used in foliar sprays. Equilibrium Natural can be used by the indoor and outdoor home gardener for all varieties of plants, such as flowers, vegetables, herbs, trees, berries, shrubs, ornamentals, annuals and perennials.

Application rates:

Hydroponic applications: Use 1-5 ml per gallon of reservoir water. Change nutrient solution weekly to avoid excess sediment.

General Application: Use 1-5 ml per gallon of water or nutrient solution.

Foliar Application: Use at a rate of 5ml per gallon of finished foliar solution.



Equilibrium Natural 1-2-1



Guaranteed Analysis

Total Nitrogen (N)………….1.00%

1.00% Nitrate Nitrogen



Available Phosphate (P2O5)……..2.0%

Soluble Potassium (K2O5)……1.0%

Calcium (C)…………………25.00%

Magnesium (Mg)………..3.0%

3.0% Water Soluble Magnesium

Organic Iron (Fe)……………..0.25%



Derived From: Soft rock phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Crab meal, Magnesium oxide, Magnesium sulfate, Iron oxide, Solubor



Also Contains non plant food ingredient:

Kelp, Yucca, polysaccharides and honey

KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN

 

[ent]

The pics I posted were bottles purchased in March of 2008.

 

[ent]

On AN's website their grow is 3-0-0, while their bloom is 2-0-0. So maybe i have the new bloom and you have the new grow. Shit- who knows- with AN they change their formula's so so much. So much that on one of my bottles it says this in the tiniest print: Rev.2.9.2006.V2.

As a programmer that has developed software, I'm fairly familiar with versioning. With a system and a number like that, it is quite obvious they have gone through quite a few different iterations of their product.