Propane the "ultimate solvent" for extraction

[datDANK]

i use to be a big soy eater until i found out that all soy products are bad for you except fermented soy such as tempeh

i've cut out all soy out of my diet and i have tempeh during the week

 

[squiggly]

My ninja, now we are talking...

The only problem I have been running into is how to restrict and maintain the pressure at the screen exit end of the cyclinder. You have to restrict the flow to maintain the pressure but then you sacrafice the flow velocity to get the material to leave the cylinder.. I looked at doin it just like BHO but the pressure still is an issue..

Still workin on it,,,thanks for the info.

Tex

If you're using straight propane this probably won't work as well as with butane--for this particular process (not a comparison between the solvents). The butane has a higher boiling point than the propane--this translates to much greater difficulty in keeping the propane liquid in the tube (it's already not the easiest for butane), it's also going to translate to greater pressure buildups and likely a much larger "cloud" of flammable gas in the working area (because more of it is boiling off at a given temp compared with butane).

There really is a significant difference in these values for the two compounds. These molecules hold onto each other according non-polar interactions which mostly consist of instantaneous dipoles which are created because electrons are constantly in motion. This interaction is much weaker than say, an ionic interaction. This is why non-polar compounds typically have lower boiling points than polar ones.

Essentially what boiling is, is raising the energy of these particles such that both their ability to hold on to one another, and the additional ability of the surrounding atmosphere to compress them together is surpassed by the energy input. This is why compounds can boil spontaneously under reduced atmosphere--the energy required for the molecules to spread out is much lower, and that energy barrier may have already been reached at room temperature if the atmosphere is evacuated.

While one extra CH2 might seem like a small addition from propane to butane--it actually has an enormous effect with regard to boiling point.

To my scientific mind, this particular setup has explosion written all over it. If I were to use propane as an extracting solvent--my first instinct would be to use a closed vessel system like Graywolf's.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

but some propane is ok, iirc, colibri has 17%

 

[outwest]

Sorry couldn't resist.



outwest

 

[squarepusher]

man propane extractions I done been simple, first get a pot of stainless steel and a propane tank 5lbs, crack the valve and turn upside down and empty the contents into the pot. after its been releasing for a minute or two, i check to see the depth of propane in pot. i have my vessel ready w the pot ground down waiting for the liquid transfer, then I would pour it in the vessel and lock it up to get the pressure built up to be supercritical @ 42 bar, and allow a resident time to pass then i would release the excited gas oil mixture to another vessel below. makes really good, foul tasting oil that needs treatment and not a simple evaporation of solvents. that foul taste though can not be eliminated, only reduced. when used as a co-solvent has been shown to produce red oil very rich.

so since propane leaves such a bad smell, is it safe to say we should just find another solvent?

 

[Graywolf]

so since propane leaves such a bad smell, is it safe to say we should just find another solvent?

Propane without ethyl mercaptan added works well, though it will absorb more water than the longer chain simple alkanes.

Foaf did an experiment on ICMag, by which he tried to take out the mercaps with a packed column of absorbent, without success. Our biochemistry student believes it could be achieved with an ionic resin column, but we've never tried it.

I opine that it is easier to obtain propane without mercaps added, than remove them below their 2.8 parts per billionth sensory detection levels.

 

[squiggly]

I'm thinking a molecular sieve is the way to go.

If you do some searching for "sweetening propane" which is what this process is called--you should find some interesting ideas.

A molecular sieve seems the best option to me. You can get one that will only let tiny molecules pass through. Propane is a very tiny molecule compared with mercaptans, so finding the right size MS shouldn't be too difficult.

There is also this as an option:

 

[jyip]

Cannabinol anyone 50 or so years old remember that? I got people helping me on this but it ain't easy.

my brother n I are that age and i remmeber years back in the 70's he took some cannibinol and puked or coughed so hard he tore mucsle tissue in his chest? cannibinol is an essential oil then? i never knew

 

[Graywolf]

I'm thinking a molecular sieve is the way to go.

If you do some searching for "sweetening propane" which is what this process is called--you should find some interesting ideas.

A molecular sieve seems the best option to me. You can get one that will only let tiny molecules pass through. Propane is a very tiny molecule compared with mercaptans, so finding the right size MS shouldn't be too difficult.

There is also this as an option:

FOAF was unable to clean up his propane with mol sieve, so we were thinking an ionic resin bed might work better, because of sulfurs high charge.

 

[squiggly]

Might just be a case of how it's set up--I've seen in literature that it can be done with MS.

 

[squiggly]

Not really. Molecular sieves are what they sound like. Porous media that will adsorb molecules of a particular size (in Angstroms). Usually the number of the molecular sieve correlates to this value.

 

[squiggly]

methyl propane is a more suitable solvent. it is also refered as iso-butane C3H10. We should look into the shorter chain carbon atoms for solvents of choice as they are overlooked for whatever reasons, but they fuckin whoop ass. just needs more attention to minimizing EtSH. i never noticed iso-butane being as foul as propane, so idk if they are the same kinds used.

It is possible to purchase any and all of these materials without mercaptans in them--I'm not sure why you're focusing on that as an issue. There are all available in pure form--just need to look.

Isobutane is C4H10--and I agree it'd work well as a solvent--but again it is more difficult to pump down.

 

[hippieheadies]

what do you think about high pressure steam extraction? i am currently researching it and thinking of using it for the trimmings from my next harvest, if i could figure the whole process out

 

[squiggly]

according to wiki, isobutane is a 3 carbon chain. here in california, there isnt an option to buy unodorized propane. does not exist here.

It is a methylated 3 carbon chain (hence, the iso characterization).

The number of carbons in the chain is not the same as the number of carbons on the molecule. We number the chain according to the longest unbroken (no double-backs) chain in the molecule.

What you'll notice with isobutane is that no matter where u start the numbers from. If you count the straight chain (C1, C2, C3) you'll find that the methyl group is always on C2. For this reason we can also name the molecule 2-methylpropane.

It is named butane because it has 4 carbons. It is in the iso structural arrangement--so we have isobutane.

C4H10.

Airgas delivers to California if I'm not mistaken. Do they not offer mercaptan free propane? You may also look into a chemical supply company as I'm sure one of them will also have this substance in pure form.

 

[hippieheadies]

its called subcritical water, or superheated steam. an applied over pressure of the vessel upwards of 500psi, then heated to 705F, where the water behaves very non-polar at these temps and pressures. in the tens of bars rather than hundreds of bars. you may survive a accident, but will be badly burned. almost wish you were dead though.

ok i guess i will have to stick to other methods of oil extraction. it was an intresting conversation between a friend and i about how doterra an essential oil company do this for their essential oils that are safe to ingest, an we werent sure how the whole process went about, so thanks for clearing this matter up for me :)

 

[wbopp]

There is another way to extract the ethyl mercaptan ( rotten egg smell). If you premix the retailed scented propane with your average low sulfur diesel fuel. At our lab we vent the propane into another container to be repressurized back into a liquid. The ethyl mercaptan remains in the diesel fuel. The propane is now scentless. We are an alternative fuel company and ran across this find mixing fuels. We have to actually put the stink back in when we are done. evidently the stink is a sulfur and the diesel having been desulfurized for sale for trucks craves the sulfur back

 

[Dabominable]

Propane used for heating purposes in the US will have Ethyl Mercaps added for leak detection. Tough to get out and has a sensory threshold of 2 ppb.

Pure propane without mercaps is available through airgas suppliers.

Propane is a simple alkane containing only three carbons and has more water solubility than butane with four carbons. It will pick up more chlorophyll and plant alkaloids than butane will.

If butane is not available, pentane with 5 carbons is the first alkane that is completely insoluble in water and would be a better choice.

We use a lot of hexane, which has six carbons, in our processing, but extract most of our oil with butane, which we recycle.

Is pentane also available at airgas suppliers? Do you need any special license to obtain it? Is is generally the same process as using butane as our solvent?

 

[Graywolf]

Is pentane also available at airgas suppliers? Do you need any special license to obtain it? Is is generally the same process as using butane as our solvent?

We buy our n-Pentane from American Scientific locally. It has around a 100F boiling point, so is not as easy to purge as n-Butane with a 31.2F boiling point, but does a good job.

 

[Dabominable]

I'm trying to find an alternative to bho. In hawaii, though legal, and dispensaries due this july (2016). There i still a 100% illegal flag for bho. Other concentrates are fine, but they're treating bho as METH production here. I really like my concentrates, but if i can't find an alternative to the butane (which runs about `150 usd per case for the 400ml whipit tane).We only have gas pro/airgas supply and i believe they are one in the same. Could you point me in the way of our small system propane extractor? I've got a master welder at my disposal, so maybe he could help me piece everything together if i was able to find a template or DIY instructions. I guess if there is no other option, the next would be finding someonon the forum who can help send me a pallet of master cases i can just barge over. It's frustrating man, thanks for the boiling point info as well. As i'm more of a shatter guy, i usually stay at 110 through the majority of my heating/vacuuming anyway. cheers

 

[Dabominable]

Almost seems like i should just do dry ice hash with my bags and then just turn it into rosin