Purple Urkle in Coco / 640w Mammoth 8 bar

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

I started a thread on another forum looking for help understanding some problems I was having, but didn't get a lot of feedback. Coco is a first for me, so its a learning curve. I started the seeds under a CFL before installing a single Mammoth 8 bar in the veg area. Flower area has yet to be built which is why I haven't flipped them. Single Purple Urkle in coco, single Psycho in soil organics only.

From May 26th

I will do some kind of log later but at this point I am not getting the results I expect.

Pre-buffered coco that also had a single 24 hour buffering at double the CalMag recommendations.
7 gallon fabric pots
Using the nutrient table from this site with two substitutions, Yucca for SM90 and Black Diamond for Diamond Nectar. CalMag is at 5ml per g.
This is veg stage and fairly well along. I had a 22x22 CFL for a while until my Mammoth 8 bar arrived so veg time is being lengthened. At day 42 now and another 30 before I finish the flower room, if not longer.
First run with coco so this a total learning phase. I've gotten my mixes down to a steady ~600 ppm and 6.0 ph. I did not realize until recently that frequent fertigation was a must Starting 3 days ago I began using 2 liters every 12 hours, the last event today resulted in 80% run off almost refilling the coke bottle. Prior I completely washed and cleaned the waste tray below the saucer/pot to get an accurate reading.

What I am getting is a <400 ppm reading on this runoff. Its been steady in that I test every other event and the highest was 448, this was the lowest at around 360. The Black Diamond turns the whole thing black prior and what I drain off is a very, very light tea color. The leaves are not perfect with some discoloration but overall the plant appears healthy, huge leaves. No crisping or curling of the leaves.

Using the table on this site when I mix a gallon I get about a 760 ppm which I cut back by draining off approx 1 liter and refilling with RO water. This gets me right down to 600. When its all said and done I get 3 fertigation events per mix or about 6 liters, probably closer to 5. I mix two gallons at a time, and keep an airstone in them until use.

There are three plants, one in coco, one in my old soil mix and one outside. More for control than anything and to remind myself that once upon a time I knew what I was doing Learning this coco is my main objective as opposed to yield or quality. Watching what the plant does, how things work etc.

Why is runoff so low? Should I bump up my ppm or is the table shown on this site something that doesn't need a lot of variation?

I switched to one fertigation event per day. 7 gallon pot. Measuring with an EZ TDS meter.

2 liters at 618 ppm with 6.08 PH
Runoff was 1.1 liters at 310 ppm
Discoloration in the leaves is getting worse.
Still mixing using the table from this site, column for 21 days+ and CalMag at 5ml per gallon.

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

Here is an additional pic. I spent more time researching my problems and I believe this is a solid indicator of calcium/magnesium deficiency.

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

It seems every couple of days I find something that I believe may be done differently so I just haven't posted.

I mix my solution in 2 gallon batches which when using the formula on this site requires a dilution of another 2 liters or close to achieve the PPM of ~650. I consistently mix to a PH of ~6.0. Base is RO water. After reading your post I raised the PPM to 1000 and kept the PH at 6.0. I have been doing an odd pattern of fertigation that is changing today. But here is what I have been doing.

I fertigate with this 1000 PPM mix at 2 liters once per day
I fertigate at 12 hours into the period with 2 liters of RO water and 5ml of CalMag (but only every other day)
The period following the extra CalMag dose I drain the pan, wash it with soap and clean out everything. Do the normal fertigation of 1000 PPM mix at 2 liters. Measure runoff, PPM and PH.

After doing this for 2 weeks I have a consistent runoff. The leaves still are yellowed but the brown spotting has stopped. I trimmed the plant of any badly damaged leaves so that I could feel confident any new spotting would be quickly noticed. Runoff is typically 50-80% in a 7 gallon pot. I have felt this was high compared to what others report. For this reason I have not been fertigating twice daily. However, I no longer believe this is the correct response.

My PPM in the runoff has risen to ~460 and PH of the runoff is 5.7-5.85. This is with the 1k PPM primary solution I described earlier. My lower leaves seemed to have regained some dark green but I did not think this was possible. I assumed this was an irreversible event?

Starting this period I have moved to a 1125 PPM solution and a PH of 5.96 I am using the recipe from the General Hydroponics site but filling in with the ingredients unique to this site. I modified to 7ml of CalMag per gallon for this new period. I found it odd that without any adjustment my PH was 5.96. Checked it 3 times in fact. Total yield was 2 gallons with no dilution neccessary.

I am moving to a new schedule of bi-daily watering with 2 liters of solution. I have eliminated the CalMag only fertigation. Just twice a day every day with the 1125 PPM. Because my runoff PPM is still so low at around 460 I feel that I am not wasting the nutrients nor am I in danger of any type of salt buildup.

<Note: the plant in the background is a Psycho in soil with organic amendments>

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

Fertigation Solution
1140 PPM
6.13 PH

Run Off
50%
548 PPM
PH 6.18

2 more gallons through (4 waterings). Thinking of bumping the PPM up even more to try and reach a point where runoff more closely matches intake.

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

I have completed 10 days of 2 per day fertigation events using the following formula (per gallon) which gives me 1850 PPM.

Armor SI: 1 ml
CalMag: 15 ml
Flora Micro: 7 ml
Flora Gro: 7 ml
Flora Bloom: 4 ml
Black Diamond: 7 ml
Yucca: 2.5 ml
RapidStart: 1 ml
H2O2: 2.5 ml

Fertigation is just under 4 liters per day. Measurements are taken once per day (every other event)

Event1
In: 1850 PPM 5.99 PH
Out: 75% 568 PPM (no PH measured)

Event2
In: 1850 PPM 5.99 PH
Out: 70% 648 PPM 6.32 PH

Event3
In: 1850 PPM 5.98 PH
Out: 75% 870 PPM 6.29 PH

Event4
In: 1850 PPM 6.08 PH
Out: 80% 1148 PPM 6.17 PH

Event 5
In: 1850 PPM 6.08 PH
Out: 90% 1310 PPM 6.25 PH

I am attaching pics from today. Debating what to do with the next 4 days formula. I calibrate the PH meter every 10 days or so. At this point each each event is approximately 2 liters. Basically I take a gallon and divide it between two 2 liter soda bottles and run an airstone. I mix 2 gallons at a time so 2 days worth. Its really quite interesting learning this growing in coco process.

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

The yellowing and spots came back with a vengenance. I have stuck with the formula I wrote down above, same schedule. Fertigation IN has been ~1850 PPM and ~6.0 PH. Out I have been seeing a steady climb until yesterday I had a 1850 PPM reading that matched the IN. But my overflow was reading a screaming high 6.6 PH. I have dialed down the solution to 1600 PPM and the PH to 5.72. I wanted to be more gradual dropping it down but it was late :) One other thing that happened was a sudden decrease in the amount of run-off. It had been the same for weeks but suddenly dropped from 80% to 40%. Its up around 50% now.

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

Should also add the area where these are kept is a steady 70F, humidity can get up a little but nothing extreme.

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

Switching to a 5.8 PH and 1600 PPM solution brought about a drastic reduction in runoff. Total off 2 liters was 400 ml, so roughly 20%? Runoff PPM was 2050 with PH at 6.52. I only ran two fertigation events with this solution. I will be bringing down the PPM and keeping the PH at 5.7-5.8 for the next batch of feedings.

guymandude · Jun 25, 2020

i gotta ask, since i'm shopping for lights, How do you like your Mammoth light? I'm looking at getting a couple of of the 10 bar UV fixtures. Nice looking plants BTW. grow on!

Pondracer · Jun 25, 2020

I really like it. I ordered two more of the Fold series. The depth of the leaves is unlike anything I have had before. Meaning that there are leaves deep in the canopy that maintain a super healthy green. I am thinking of going to a single bar UV between the two Mammoth Fold lights. I have never ran UV before. The amazing thing is the heat is almost non-existent. It still puts out some heat, but so negligible. Coming from a 600 watt HPS its a shocker. I wish I had gotten the 10 bar for this veg area. My concern was trying to lift it by myself, but this style you can hang the center piece and then slide the bars on after so weight while hanging is not an issue.

guymandude · Jun 26, 2020

hey great information, thank you so much.

i'm not terribly worried about the heat. I run an 18K BTU mini-split in my flower room. It's good to keep 4 1K HPS bulbs from overheating the room. i figure with LED's it won't even break a sweat

Pondracer · Jun 26, 2020

Two more pics.

Pondracer · Jun 27, 2020

Still working on bringing the runoff PPM down. 2 more gallons measured every other event. Runoff has returned to 80%. I need to finish this flower area. I have to lift this franken-thing out every time I water to drain the pan. The fabric pot is elevated on a plastic grid so its not in the solution.

I've been reading threads and wow, my knowledge is way out of date. Like about 10-15 years. I feel kind of bad putting up pics of my abused plants

Event1
In: 1080 PPM 5.82 PH
Out: 50% 2050 PPM 6.58 PH

Event2
In: 1080 PPM 5.75 PH
Out: 80% 1980 PPM 6.32 PH

Pondracer · Jul 2, 2020

I have reduced my PPM for each fertigation to around 1000 and lowered the PH to ~5.8. Even with reducing the CalMag I still seem to have stopped any further yellowing or spotting. The plant looks good, but the high PH in the runoff has me concerned. I still have about 10 days plus before the tent can be setup for flower so I am hoping it slows down in growth (another reason to dial back). The shape and look of the plant is really nice. I have never grown a plant that has come together in this way. The leaves show some defects from me bashing about trying to figure out the growing method, but overall its a very nice plant.

Event1
In: 1080 PPM 5.82 PH
Out: 40% 1800 PPM 7.1 PH

Pondracer · Jul 2, 2020

Here is another shot of the Psycho in soil. Its hard to tell what is going on with it with regards to watering. It just seems to droop naturally. I trimmed all the lowest leaves from both plants yesterday. It seems happy so far.

Pondracer · Jul 6, 2020

Ordered a Mammoth UV bar today to hang between the 800w Fold's. In the 5x9 with the 7' ceiling I should have lighting covered. 2 dedicated 20amp 120v and then a third 20 amp that shares my electronics bench. Another 15 amp that shares a computer and home theater setup (nothing that draws big). Its overkill but I wanted to do the lines in conduit so that I don't have to change things around again if I pull the tent and build a dedicated room. Veg will still be the single Mammoth 8 bar in a different area. For a controller I have the TrolMaster Hydro-X. Still have to figure out ventilation and CO2. I need to get these things flipped ASAP.

Pondracer · Jul 6, 2020

Here are some pics of the current catastrophe. Working on the electrical I let things slide. I had been bringing down my PPM solution to try and bring down the runoff PPM and PH which were both quite high. The problem came back. I have since changed to this formula:

1 ml ArmorSI
10 ml
4 ml Flora Micro
4 ml Flora Gro
2 ml Flora Bloom
3 ml Black Diamond
2.5 ml Yucca Wet
2 ml H2O2

1280 PPM and 8 drops of PH Down lands me at 5.8 PH.

First of four feedings and I will pull the runoff readings. This thing is just ridiculously huge. The tray is a 26"x18" tray and that's a 7 gallon pot. I am scared to be alone with it.

boomgagem · Jul 6, 2020

She’s huge! I’m on my first grow ever in coco, and I’ve been dealing with a few burnt tips and a couple of leaves showing spots. I didn’t lollipop like I should have so I’m going to have a lot of fluff. I’m using the same nutes pretty much but I’ve been feeding h3ads 6/9 formula. I’m in the middle of week 5 of flower and my last feed was 2ml/gal calimagic 2ml/gal micro and 9ml/gal bloom. I’ve been feeding twice daily, once right around lights on and another 6-7 hours later. I hope I’m not killing them :/

Aqua Man · Jul 6, 2020

Hey bro. Imo you need to flush that media and reset.

How many gal pots are they and what Brandon of cal mag?

Plants nice and big little bit to much light. Are you on 18/6?

What form of ph down are you using?

JASONBROTHER · Jul 7, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Hey bro. Imo you need to flush that media and reset.

How many gal pots are they and what Brandon of cal mag?

Plants nice and big little bit to much light. Are you on 18/6?

What form of ph down are you using?

Did u find that his plants needs to do some leaf cleaning. It was too dense，If he don't make some defoliation, it's difficult to reduce the humidity to the most appropriate 60%

he only took 1ml Armor SI in late Veg,which was not enough。
It's hard to imagine that his lastest fertigation has been get to 1850 PPM ,for me it's safest to keep 700 ppm at the end of the plant,

Purple Urkle in Coco / 640w Mammoth 8 bar

Purple Urkle in Coco / 640w Mammoth 8 bar

Pondracer

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guymandude

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Pondracer

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boomgagem

Aqua Man

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