Questions About Fade, Flush, All That Debatable Stuff

[bankcee]

So it started with one question, then that led to another and yet another, before I knew it I was overwhelmed with unanswerable questions. At least ones I couldn't answer.. and that brings me here.

So fade, in amended soil, water only grows, does it exist? Sure it does, I've personally dealt with it this last run from a fresh mix of amended soil.. But it wasn't at all intentional, in fact I had bad deficiencies early in bloom. So now my first question is it required/possible to fade organic amendments in soil?

then it led me to a question on zero fade.. if it isn't possible to force a fade in this style, what does that mean for the end product? taste differs? I've read of chemical tastes with synthetic fertilizers not being flushed properly so that's where this question originated..

then I thought about my soil again and the fade I seen, if it is still a good idea to have some fade towards harvest day in organic soil, how do people reuse soil a couple runs without re amending I've read a guy reusing soil three runs before he had to re amend?

maybe be pointless questions but it's driving me nuts.. lol basically should I want to see a fade in organics? lol tia

 

[Seamaiden]

So now my first question is it required/possible to fade organic amendments in soil?

I'm not quite picking up what you're laying down here. If you're asking if it's possible to achieve a fade in organic in soil, my answer is yes. If you're asking if it's possible to have a water-only mix that will take you ALL the way through flower, then... not yet in my experience. I still have to add something here and there throughout the season.

then it led me to a question on zero fade.. if it isn't possible to force a fade in this style, what does that mean for the end product? taste differs? I've read of chemical tastes with synthetic fertilizers not being flushed properly so that's where this question originated..

Many people don't want the fade, they want their plant to stay nice and green all the way through the end of flowering. That doesn't mean it's not possible in organics, it's just a little trickier. I've been told the same thing about synths, I'm just not so sure it's actually true. I don't get the flushing thing IF you're feeding properly. Flushing is required when you're pushing as much synthetic fertilizer through the media as you can, then build-ups occur, etc, etc. And none of that has ever made sense to me, so... I'm not sure I can answer that question very well. I think I ended up jabbering.

 

[bankcee]

I'm not quite picking up what you're laying down here. If you're asking if it's possible to achieve a fade in organic in soil, my answer is yes. If you're asking if it's possible to have a water-only mix that will take you ALL the way through flower, then... not yet in my experience. I still have to add something here and there throughout the season.

Many people don't want the fade, they want their plant to stay nice and green all the way through the end of flowering. That doesn't mean it's not possible in organics, it's just a little trickier. I've been told the same thing about synths, I'm just not so sure it's actually true. I don't get the flushing thing IF you're feeding properly. Flushing is required when you're pushing as much synthetic fertilizer through the media as you can, then build-ups occur, etc, etc. And none of that has ever made sense to me, so... I'm not sure I can answer that question very well. I think I ended up jabbering.

I'm not quite picking up what you're laying down here. If you're asking if it's possible to achieve a fade in organic in soil, my answer is yes. If you're asking if it's possible to have a water-only mix that will take you ALL the way through flower, then... not yet in my experience. I still have to add something here and there throughout the season.

Many people don't want the fade, they want their plant to stay nice and green all the way through the end of flowering. That doesn't mean it's not possible in organics, it's just a little trickier. I've been told the same thing about synths, I'm just not so sure it's actually true. I don't get the flushing thing IF you're feeding properly. Flushing is required when you're pushing as much synthetic fertilizer through the media as you can, then build-ups occur, etc, etc. And none of that has ever made sense to me, so... I'm not sure I can answer that question very well. I think I ended up jabbering.

So it isn't necessary to see a fade in organics? and also not necessary in hydro either if feeding properly? What would you add afterwards like top dress, teas, things like that?

and if I have a plant that stays green as can be to harvest day would it mess with the taste in organics? and if I did the same in hydro would the chemical ferts give off a taste of I don't flush?

 

[Seamaiden]

I believe it's really a personal preference. I love seeing blonde buds, it's what was the best smoke when I was growing up. Others don't like that, others want nice, green buds at harvest. I honestly haven't tasted a huge difference between buds with a fade and no fade, but I am also not the best person to ask about things like flavors and scents.
(Bitten by a green Mojave rattler 15yrs ago, impacted my sense of smell to a large degree.)

I honestly don't think that if you have a plant that's ready to harvest, but is green, it's going to taste terrible or anything like that. Not with a proper dry and cure, it really shouldn't.

When I plan to induce the fade, I feed sugars, a good bit of them, and harvest within a two week window after that. When you feed sugars you induce a burst of bacterial growth. Those bacteria fix N in their bodies, making it temporarily unavailable to the plant. But! When they shit or die, that N is available again, so the sugar thing should be done with some care.

As for hydro and synthetic salts, it's been a while since I've grown using synthetics, but when I did, I didn't flush. I tapered off the feed and then kept it to a very low EC til finish. Maybe my buds were harsh, I didn't think so though.

 

[bankcee]

that whole feeding with sugars has me intrigued. that's basically what I was talking about where some people see a fade in round 1 but then the soil is good (even better) in round 2.

how do you feed with sugars things like?

 

[GT21]

So it started with one question, then that led to another and yet another, before I knew it I was overwhelmed with unanswerable questions. At least ones I couldn't answer.. and that brings me here.

So fade, in amended soil, water only grows, does it exist? Sure it does, I've personally dealt with it this last run from a fresh mix of amended soil.. But it wasn't at all intentional, in fact I had bad deficiencies early in bloom. So now my first question is it required/possible to fade organic amendments in soil?

then it led me to a question on zero fade.. if it isn't possible to force a fade in this style, what does that mean for the end product? taste differs? I've read of chemical tastes with synthetic fertilizers not being flushed properly so that's where this question originated..

then I thought about my soil again and the fade I seen, if it is still a good idea to have some fade towards harvest day in organic soil, how do people reuse soil a couple runs without re amending I've read a guy reusing soil three runs before he had to re amend?

maybe be pointless questions but it's driving me nuts.. lol basically should I want to see a fade in organics? lol tia

You should want to see a fade or color change in any medium, any nutes. Its the plants way of getting rid of chlorophyll and finishing its maturation cycle. ... and when you get a nice fade its way easier to dry and cure your product to get smooth smoke.

 

[bankcee]

so how does it work in organics? like super soil? if it's heavily ammended, you won't see a fade, right? other than the method @Seamaiden does to kind of force a fade..?

what style you grow?

You should want to see a fade or color change in any medium, any nutes. Its the plants way of getting rid of chlorophyll and finishing its maturation cycle. ... and when you get a nice fade its way easier to dry and cure your product to get smooth smoke.

 

[GT21]

so how does it work in organics? like super soil? if it's heavily ammended, you won't see a fade, right? other than the method @Seamaiden does to kind of force a fade..?

what style you grow?

I grow in organic and synthetic soil systems and always look for a fade at about 3/4 plant life cycle. It has been shown that bringing out the anthocyanins and betalains and decreasing or stopping nitrogen uptake to have a 10% increase in antioxidants value in many fruit bearing plants(and makes your dry cure way easier) You can force a fade by raising ph out of nitrogen uptake(not recommended), lowering the atmospheric temperature which swings your electric conductivity of the root system or some will change with a change in flower times.. mimicking later nights like 14/10 instead of 12/12.

 

[Seamaiden]

that whole feeding with sugars has me intrigued. that's basically what I was talking about where some people see a fade in round 1 but then the soil is good (even better) in round 2.

how do you feed with sugars things like?

I just feed 'em. Molasses, table sugar, palm sugar, date sugar, piloncillo, whatever. If my goal is to force a fade then I will push the sugar rather hard, around 1T/gal water. Do that a couple of times and you'll force the bacterial bloom. But like I said, be prepared to harvest before those microbes shit or die, because once that happens there's going to be a huge amount of N available to the plant, undoing what you just did.

 

[ninjaballs]

let them dry out fully before you water dont panic because of the fade and over water/feed.the plants telling you it will be ready in two weeks!you should be thankful its letting you know!i find that around this time if i can get the temps down to 65 degree area the plants stay green longer.and the buds denser.i reuse my soil but i take the old soil and mix it with a fuck ton of ammendments and store it for a year.using the exact same soil for three years is obsurd.whoever said that probably buys the whole line of botanicare p[roducts and just treats it like a coco grow...

 

[ninjaballs]

want to know the best way to grow indoor organic weed?take one plant and put it in a 100 gallon container filled with the best organic soil money can buy ,put it under a 1000 watt hps and feed nothing but water(and maybe some molasses).see?the problem is we're trying to maximize productivity with 5-7 gallon containers.the fade ,i think comes from root rot or dead zones.its always too late to correct the problem.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

Over feeding is common in organics as well, hence plants not fading. Here's a few plants in 3gallons of amended soil. Fading as they should
White Ghash

Legend OG

Blockhead

Notice that each strain expresses its unique traits, sometimes over feeding can cause very different strains to had a homogenized expression- which is a hallmark of over feeding.

The recipe I use is self contained and provides total nutrition, often in excess. I cut the original recipe some, and tweaked some amendments and have achieved better results by providing a roughly 10-10-10 mix which is slightly lower than what the plant requires for a full cycle, then with with AACT with supplemental nutrition (guano, etc) you can fine tune each strains additional needs.

A major factor is becoming familiar with the ingredients you use, knowing what breaks down quickly and what is still breaking down 60 days later. Fish bone meal, for instance, is an amendment I add only every other cycle because it takes so long to become available.

It takes time to get your recipe right, and many groups of plants will react differently to the same nutrition program you provide other plants. Take notes and pay attention to how your plant acts. Make sure to test your soil after each run to know how much raw inputs to add, I learned the fish bone meal lesson the hard way. Even in organics you can produce bud that burns hot and leaves dark grey/black ash.

Sorry @ninjaballs but most of what you said is incorrect. Using the same soil for several years is far from absurd if you know what you're doing, no botanicare or other bottles required. And it's plenty easy to achieve dynamic organic growth in small containers. Plants fading is natural, and most certainly does not happen because of root rot or "dead zones" (whatever that is), unless you've created that problem in the rhizosphere.

 

[jumpincactus]

I grow in organic and synthetic soil systems and always look for a fade at about 3/4 plant life cycle. It has been shown that bringing out the anthocyanins and betalains and decreasing or stopping nitrogen uptake to have a 10% increase in antioxidants value in many fruit bearing plants(and makes your dry cure way easier) You can force a fade by raising ph out of nitrogen uptake(not recommended), lowering the atmospheric temperature which swings your electric conductivity of the root system or some will change with a change in flower times.. mimicking later nights like 14/10 instead of 12/12.

And to add to what @GT21 already stated some strains just dont fade or present autumn colors....... No matter what you do or style of grow.....

 

[GT21]

wait what?first off the above plants are purpleing not fading.second just about everything you said is superfluos let me quote "Over feeding is common in organics as well, hence plants not fading. Here's a few plants in 3gallons of amended soil. Fading as they should" plants dont fade when overfed? the words over fed impies you have poisoned your plants with too much fertilizer."Notice that each strain expresses its unique traits, sometimes over feeding can cause very different strains to had a homogenized expression- which is a hallmark of over feeding." your saying by overfeeding my plants they will all look similar? dude what planet are you from.just because you wrote a aparagraph doesnt mean it makes ANY sense.

The colors are always there its just the chlorophyll that masks it through the season.
Chlorophyll normally masks the yellow pigments known as xanthophylls and the orange pigments called carotenoids — both then become visible when the green chlorophyll is gone. These colors are present in the leaf throughout the growing season. Red and purple pigments come from anthocyanins. In the fall anthocyanins are manufactured from the sugars that are trapped in the leaf

I think when he was talking about overfed organics he was talking about soil style mediums.. where some people with try to feed the plant and the soil which is way too much..the plant will never use it all.

When i see green plants at harvest i notice the growers use nitrogen way too late. And that hurts them when it comes to dry/cure times

 

[ninjaballs]

let me tell you a secret not all plants purple.in fact purple is mostly an indica trait.

 

[GT21]

let me tell you a secret not all plants purple.in fact purple is mostly an indica trait.

Plants can turn many colors but why am i telling you... youre the pro.

 

[NaturalTherapy]

Lol

 

[NaturalTherapy]

I just don't see the point in corresponding with someone so sensitive and confrontational. Sorry I offended you

 

[ninjaballs]

Lol

explain your self.dont be a coward explain to me how i am wrong.

 

[Wisher619]

fading and color turn is possible with all strains...sativas as well as indicas
and it is much easier to cure cannabis when it has faded.....I like to call it a pre-cure cure.....because alot of the chlorophyll has diminished....the very same substance that creates that horrible grassy smell...
flowers can turn out just as good either way but the dry and cure process is much easier when most of the chlorophyll is gone as you dont need the bacteria to break down the chlorophyll you only need to slowly extract the moisture from the inside to the out
I have def had sativas turn purple/Red/Orange...to black
Ive had indicas just turn from dark to lime green....
so it is genetic but.....the lighter the leaves before chop....the easier it is to dry and cure
as for soil
shit I reuse my outdoor bed over and over....without any nutrients....only EWC and wood chips
to be fair
@ninjaballs
For so many years of growing experience
.........well lets put it this way
I have an inlaw who lives in the middle of nowhere....we went to visit and at that time a giant Sunami was destroying the islands
she say..."Thats not real.....why would they make a show like that...thats not real...boy tv really is getting stoopid nowday.....have you ever seen a wave kill people like that?....that is stoopid...."
just because you think you know something dosnt mean it is the truth....or that there arent other ways
fading is some ways it nutrient deficient
in a differ senario....like plant finishing....it is the plant using its stored nutrients to finish its life cycle before death....