Replacing air stones with waterfalls in RDWC

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jordanthegreat

jordanthegreat

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I have been doing a ton a research on heath robinson's methodology in dwc. Through the reading i found that he used no airstones, high flow rates, and the waterfall effect to get around the use of a chiller. I designed a system for my moms like this, have yet to install it. do you run a chiller still, or was the waterfall enough to keep the parameters of the nute solution in check?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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jordanthegreat said:
I have been doing a ton a research on heath robinson's methodology in dwc. Through the reading i found that he used no airstones, high flow rates, and the waterfall effect to get around the use of a chiller. I designed a system for my moms like this, have yet to install it. do you run a chiller still, or was the waterfall enough to keep the parameters of the nute solution in check?
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This is the first I've heard of him not using a chiller. I did mine purely to eliminate the airstones, pump and tubing. I haven't considered attempting to run mine without a chiller, since my waterfall flow rates are far too low relative to total water volume to have much effect. Inside an insulated pvc pipe that winds around a vertical setup while it drops would be ideal.

Mine is basically Capulator's wall o' dank bent fully around a single bulb. It's two trees, each attached to a 4' tall x 6'3" long half round of trellis. Each end of the half round is wired to the other, making a nice cylinder 4'x4', with the bulb right in the middle.

Underneath is one 27 gallon tub for each plant, filed mostly full with 20 gallons of nutrient solution. The waterfall is a 3/8" inside diameter fitting, blasting water down into the surface of the water in the tub. Splash, agitation and circulation result, as well as plenty of oxygenation to fully saturate the solution.

This isn't going to give me a free pass from a water chiller, however. If true, that's genius.
 
sixstring

sixstring

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Yeah unless your res was in a cold spot i would think more water motion would require more of a need to chill it.one of these days I'm gonna get a chiller and try a small uc or rdwc system.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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sixstring said:
Yeah unless your res was in a cold spot i would think more water motion would require more of a need to chill it.one of these days I'm gonna get a chiller and try a small uc or rdwc system.
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Do it. Your only regret will be not getting a bigger chiller, lol.

Seriously, I run water chilling to cool my entire op, and it's quite simply the shit.
 
sixstring

sixstring

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I been kinda waiting for someone to come out with a cheaper outdoor chiller cause i just don't have room for one in my flower pad or a way to exhaust 5he heat from the chiller.my flower room is my old shop and it's detached from my house.we talked about putting a small addition on T he shop but then i just grabbed a 3 ton actually and dropped all that other stuff for now.couple years I'll be in a new spot with a basement, would love to heat my home with the chiller heat and have a small room just for dro.i have done some dwc, even made a few igloo res's that went well using organics to combat my 74 to 76f res temps.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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sixstring said:
I been kinda waiting for someone to come out with a cheaper outdoor chiller cause i just don't have room for one in my flower pad or a way to exhaust 5he heat from the chiller.my flower room is my old shop and it's detached from my house.we talked about putting a small addition on T he shop but then i just grabbed a 3 ton actually and dropped all that other stuff for now.couple years I'll be in a new spot with a basement, would love to heat my home with the chiller heat and have a small room just for dro.i have done some dwc, even made a few igloo res's that went well using organics to combat my 74 to 76f res temps.
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You're more than ready for one, then. The problem with chillers is that they are expensive just due to lack of economies of scale. The brutal truth is that they're actually all but the same thing as an air conditioner- and the differences make them slightly simpler. Since so few are demanded, however, those become changes to already completed AC units, which of course becomes much more expensive. Annoying, but you get your money back in cheap cooling and free heat.

I'm able to use one chiller for heating in the winter because I can haul the 2 Ton window mount unit inside for the winter and then stick it back in the window for the next summer. No bueno with anything larger, so then it becomes an exercise in air management.

Once you get the hang of heating and cooling with water, you'll see all sorts of possibilities for its use to save money around the house and to heat outdoor spaces like greenhouses.
 
Tank333

Tank333

636
93
ttystikk said:
You're more than ready for one, then. The problem with chillers is that they are expensive just due to lack of economies of scale. The brutal truth is that they're actually all but the same thing as an air conditioner- and the differences make them slightly simpler. Since so few are demanded, however, those become changes to already completed AC units, which of course becomes much more expensive. Annoying, but you get your money back in cheap cooling and free heat.

I'm able to use one chiller for heating in the winter because I can haul the 2 Ton window mount unit inside for the winter and then stick it back in the window for the next summer. No bueno with anything larger, so then it becomes an exercise in air management.

Once you get the hang of heating and cooling with water, you'll see all sorts of possibilities for its use to save money around the house and to heat outdoor spaces like greenhouses.
Click to expand...

Would you rather have two 2-ton chillers, or pony up the 6 grand for a 3-ton chiller? I'm trying to research this shit as best I can before I sink my money into one, and I keep coming up with the same dilemma: I see 2-ton units for around 3 grand, and I see 3-ton units for barely less than twice that.... Why would someone spend the money for the single large one when you get more bang for your buck with two of the smaller ones?

Unless I'm just stoned stupid and am missing something important here... That seems to happen a lot these days. Lol
 
jordanthegreat

jordanthegreat

11
3
ttystikk,
thanks much for the break down. i am pretty familiar with ur work, been lurking on this site for YEARS. As a matter of fact, I am going to be taking a page out of ur book! I am going to be cooling a room with radiators, fans, and a lake! Your wall o dank journal inspired me to run a tunnel-o-dank! The first test run is 7 weeks deep, and looking good.(needs tweaking tho)

I just blew through Heath's last appearance on IC, and did not spot anything by way of a chiller. He cited the high volume of circulation, and the one foot waterfall going 24/7 to give him enough DO. It was also said that by flip flopping vertical lights and having an insane air exchange rate in his rooms, he was able to skip chillers and a/c. Have you noticed a change in duty cycle with your chiller since ditching the stones?I myself am nervous to try this without a chiller. My UC EARTH style hybrid system absolutely needs one. In either case, I will be watching for updates. Soon as I (and my room)recover from the exorcism of a bad partner, I will post my work for the sake of comparison.

Thanks for your time,and quick response!
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
@jordanthegreat Wow! This sounds amazing, and I wanna see it!

I like your ideas, no surprise, lol

I've noticed no change in duty cycle, but my stones then and waterfalls now occur in enclosed RDWC tubs, with little interaction with the outside environment to speak of.

I'm very happy with how the chiller works in these rooms; vertical grows, water chilling and dehuey go together like hot dogs, kids and summertime.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
Tank333 said:
Would you rather have two 2-ton chillers, or pony up the 6 grand for a 3-ton chiller? I'm trying to research this shit as best I can before I sink my money into one, and I keep coming up with the same dilemma: I see 2-ton units for around 3 grand, and I see 3-ton units for barely less than twice that.... Why would someone spend the money for the single large one when you get more bang for your buck with two of the smaller ones?

Unless I'm just stoned stupid and am missing something important here... That seems to happen a lot these days. Lol
Click to expand...

I took two, they're small. Lol- I like the two a lot, plus the fact that they fit in the window all summer is huge. If one breaks, it's not an emergency! Two is good.
 
L

larebowm

350
63
Pretty nice I wonder what the pump requirement would be for 12 sites:wideyed:
The little one requires a minimum of 10 psi.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
larebowm said:
Pretty nice I wonder what the pump requirement would be for 12 sites:wideyed:
The little one requires a minimum of 10 psi.
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Hmmmm... I'm not sure if our little waterpumps put that much out. My guess is that if a pump can push water 20' up, it will have the necessary oomph. I'm also going to guess that even a much smaller pressure will still give benefits to support our aims.

I'm going to see if I can order a few of those littlest ones...
 
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