Scientific papers on fast curing

[fishwhistle]

Yarra,I asked this in the other thread but never got an answer,Do you smoke MJ yourself?The Reason that i ask is you always refer to your 'regulars' as not being able to tell the difference etc but you never really give your own personal opinion of smoking fast cured vs slow cured and the different nuances of the smoke.For me fast cured is not as smooth or flavorful and the high can be different,more racy and paranoia inducing vs a more euphoric buzz,great flavor and long lasting high.Many growers who dont smoke themselves are all about the science because they have no way to compare the difference in the smoke themselves,they only have empirical data to go off.You may very well be right that fast curing may give you higher thc and less chance of mold/degradation but that comes at a cost in my mind.You mentioned there are no old ladies stomping grapes to make wine anymore and you are correct but they are still aging wine for months to years to develop the right body,tannins,Alcohol content and flavor profile etc,you dont just squeeze the grape and its done,all good things take time,huge difference between boones farm strawberry hill and a nice cakebread cabernet.Its sad to see any thread locked but sometimes when its really controversial no good will come of it and id say 90% of the folks here would rather smoke a nicely cured bud than a fast cured bud,maybe more than that so your going to have massive disagreement/argument over the subject,Especially if you refuse to give an inch or even concede they might have a point or be right.If there was a way to do it faster and still get the SAME outcome you can bet people would have been doing it for a long time IMO.I do concede that most dispensaries or for that matter most consumers probably dont know the difference or care so just keep doing what works for you.
Best of luck in all your endeavors

 

[william76]

The only time I could see a fast cure being beneficial is if you were in a hurry to sell the product and don't really care about it,theres a reason so many conneseurs slow dry and cure there flowers,cause it works!76

 

[suomynona]

I really think "fast curing" here is a misnomer. I think it would be better termed "fast processing and storage". I believe all that is meant here is to cut, hang, dry and store in as reasonably quick a time as possible. I do not think the intent was that you must dry, store and then sell or smoke in 3 days or less.

Slow dry, can we define some terms here? That will help, no?

To me, fast dry when a machine is involved means that you cut, buck, trim, screen dry a few days, then into the storage bin....or if hand trimming, it means cut, hang, a few days later box up, and/or trim as needed, then immediately into airtight storage.

90% of growers will agree this is the way it is done. The few that want to argue about this will continue to argue I suppose.

Either way, machine or hand trimmed, once dried the cannabis gets stored in whatever airtight container of your choice. If dried properly before binning/jarring, etc..."burping" will not be necessary in the traditional sense of the term. Sure, you will open your container once or twice to make sure nothing is rehydrating in the container to the point of potential mold, but like I said, if dried right first, the storage will be fine and the buds will be really nice and spongy and remain very fresh.

I have tried very hard to understand the fight over this topic here amongst members. I think the ability to look beyond the scope of what you are familiar with may bwe thye deciding factor in the argument. IDK though

Grow well!

 

[YarraSparra]

Yarra,I asked this in the other thread but never got an answer,Do you smoke MJ yourself?The Reason that i ask is you always refer to your 'regulars' as not being able to tell the difference etc but you never really give your own personal opinion of smoking fast cured vs slow cured and the different nuances of the smoke.For me fast cured is not as smooth or flavorful and the high can be different,more racy and paranoia inducing vs a more euphoric buzz,great flavor and long lasting high.Many growers who dont smoke themselves are all about the science because they have no way to compare the difference in the smoke themselves,they only have empirical data to go off.You may very well be right that fast curing may give you higher thc and less chance of mold/degradation but that comes at a cost in my mind.You mentioned there are no old ladies stomping grapes to make wine anymore and you are correct but they are still aging wine for months to years to develop the right body,tannins,Alcohol content and flavor profile etc,you dont just squeeze the grape and its done,all good things take time,huge difference between boones farm strawberry hill and a nice cakebread cabernet.Its sad to see any thread locked but sometimes when its really controversial no good will come of it and id say 90% of the folks here would rather smoke a nicely cured bud than a fast cured bud,maybe more than that so your going to have massive disagreement/argument over the subject,Especially if you refuse to give an inch or even concede they might have a point or be right.If there was a way to do it faster and still get the SAME outcome you can bet people would have been doing it for a long time IMO.I do concede that most dispensaries or for that matter most consumers probably dont know the difference or care so just keep doing what works for you.
Best of luck in all your endeavors

Look I am beyond over this topic now. I don’t mind discussion and people voicing doubts and disagreement, but the way people have outwardly insulted me is tiring. Also, the way the mods have handled the trolls has been disappointing. I believe it’s against forum rules to troll and flame, yet little has been done about it, other than my thread being locked.

Flaming/Trolling: Flames are posts intended to insult and provoke. Posters who speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude will be banned. Repeated posts directed with hostility at a particular person or group of people or their beliefs will be cause for banning. Any individual who chronically trolls, who regularly posts arguments, flames or personal attacks for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion will be banned. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait.

If I’ve come across as arrogant, I apologize. I’ll reply to you and then this is my last post on the topic. Yes, I smoke and no I’ve never noticed any negative difference between the way I used to do it (slow cured) and the way I do it now. If it’s too dry to me it tastes harsher, if it’s not then the taste is indistinguishable. I mentioned my regulars simply so that people realize I’m not basing what I’m saying off my opinion alone, i.e. confirmation bias. I’m just repeating myself.

Honestly, if you don’t like my method, don’t do it. Simple. Everyone has their own preferences and tastes. I was just trying to explain to people that fast curing is a better means for the purpose of potency and that it doesn’t have to come at cost to flavor or harshness. If it’s not as smooth, it’s because it’s too dry, not because it was cured quickly. Similarly, flavor should not be lost if done properly. Irrespective of these two points, people are still entitled to prefer their own methods and that’s fine. However, there is little science to why a slow cure should be better and that was my point. I’ve simply provided an alternative and backed it up with sound reasoning. To each their own, do what you like.

Anyone else with questions or insults, don’t expect a reply, I’m over this.

YS

 

[Mr_GreenGenes]

@YarraSparra, so you don't mind discussion, but when someone disagrees with you they are flaming and a troll and mods should "handle" them? Don't get pissy b/c everyone doesn't buy your bullshit man. MGG

 

[UCMETOO]

Again with your useless links ....
You have only confirmed my opinion of you. I only hope that others see you for what you are.

We see him for who he is NOT as well,.....PhD. my ass, just because you choose to "Pile it higher and deeper" that doesen't make it any clearer ( he may have the degree or he may not, he does come off as an academic with no real world experience of how to talk to people ) and as far as being willing to debate the idea, thats just a delusional assertion on your part,.....you offered little more than your opinion ~ I don't consider that "Sciency" by a long shot.

But by far my biggest issue is with your condesending attitude, it certainly does not come off as well educated or even well adjusted, to be honest. i have to give PROPS to SSteely71, you sir are precisely ON POINT (i could not have said that better!)

 

[UCMETOO]

Seeing as I've spent the weekend digging up these articles again and now @Yarra's thread is locked I'll post what I've found here so my time hasn't gone to waste. To be honest I still dont know if I can be assed fucking around with a new drying system tho. Well whatever, anyway to make up for my initial rude comment I’m posting up some of the papers I read. A few in particular really caused me to change my mind. There are a few other good ones too but I’ll have to have another look in pubmed. Easy to access all these through a public library same as me.

In no particular order…


Effects of flue-curing and ageing on the volatile, neutral and acidic constituents of Virginia tobacco

The effect of freeze-drying and its implications for botanical medicine: a review

Effect of Drying Methods on the Quality of the Essential Oil of Spearmint Leaves (Mentha spicata L.)

Cannabis smoke condensate III: the cannabinoid content of vaporised Cannabis sativa.

Influence of drying process on the quality of medicinal plants: A review

Effect of different drying methods on the quality and quantity of the essential oil of lemon balm (Melissa officinalis l.)

Cannabis smoke condensate III: the cannabinoid content of vaporised Cannabis sativa.

DRYING OF MEDICINAL PLANTS

Is today's marijuana more potent simply because it's fresher?


THE PROPAGATION, CHARACTERISATION AND OPTIMISATION OF CANNABIS SATIVA L AS A PHYTOPHARMACEUTICAL

Changes in chemical composition of tobacco lamina during senescence and curing. 1. Plastid pigments

Changes in chemical composition of burley tobacco during senescence and curing. 3. Tobacco-specific nitrosamines

Not trying to open that can of worms again just sharing what I found.

OTTO (LSD), thank you, actually THANK YOU!!!!!!! I love that Farmers are willing and capeable of continuing a conversation when the author can't keep up anymore........CLASSIC!

Thank you for showing YS how its done, these offerings will actually get read now, funny how they are a lot more appealing without having to swallow a spoon full of YS's bullshit ego first.

 

[caregiverken]

OTTO (LSD), thank you, actually THANK YOU!!!!!!! I love that Farmers are willing and capeable of continuing a conversation when the author can't keep up anymore........CLASSIC!

Thank you for showing YS how its done, these offerings will actually get read now, funny how they are a lot more appealing without having to swallow a spoon full of YS's bullshit ego first.

Just thought that was worth quoting :) Great post UC

YS said he removed 100% of the moisture in 4 days..
That threw me off..... i call bs on the phd

 

[Zero Theorem]

Yarra you shouldnt feel the need to defend urself dude. Uv pointed out some really important “logical fallacies” on this forum..haha, like the use of those words btw…and its put some of the “experts” noses right out of joint - and has it!!!! - cos they can’t think of a single counter argument other than promoting supposed years of experience.. and talking about “what everybody else does and has done for years”. People like that are the usual crowd that try to block progress because it doesn’t suit their personal belief system or business operations alike…like you said no one has actually asked you a direct question on the science and this is because the people attacking you obviously don’t understand it and it dents their “forumous grow egos” when they can't synthesize an intellectual rebuttal...there are some seriously under endowed “experts” here who wish they had something to add more than they do so all they can do it try to get personal. HAHAHAHA. Funny. Not a single person has tried offering up any science themselves, but personal opinions and personal attacks. What a joke. Take it as a compliment. Kudos to you brother. Please do not leave this forum because of them!

 

[caregiverken]

There is no need for anyone to leave.

 

[way2green]

@YarraSparra
Bro, I can't tell you how mean spirited this thread has become. I Dont agree with everything you have written but I do agree with a lot of the facts. I really don't see a need to attack your character. Some of the things that u have posted are hard to get my arms around but that is my problem not yours.

 

[HerbGrower]

Yo WTF? Are you just leaving this thread or the forum all together? I had some questions too.. You're too sensitive man. Anyway there were plenty of people here who said their appreciation already. I know you said you won’t answer more q’s but do you think if I have botrytis spots throughout the crop fast drying will stop it getting worse?

 

[Plasma]

I’m trying to wade through a couple of papers that OttO posted. I think the point of the peer reviewed system is you can access information like this and not have to send stuff off to the lab and do you own science because its already been done and published. But already I’m getting a headache attempting to decipher all the chemical acronyms.

 

[suomynona]

so everyone is clear here, some of the posts that appeared to be by yarra were not, look at the spelling of the name closely

Some real dick heads here and no mod will do anything about it??

Seriously, Logic? You want your site to appear childish??

 

[way2green]

Seriously? Some asshole would go to that much trouble to fuck a person over on mmj practices and principles? I really have to say that is really low down. Whomever did that is a loser muthafrigga. In my neck of the woods peeps like that go on long fishing trips......

 

[Plasma]

I just noticed it's someone in his flushing thread. The posts themselves appear to have been deleted but the quoted posts and likes by the person are still there.

 

[Plasma]

But Yarra just posted in the composting thread, so is still here. In the flushing thread I noticed the name wasn't spelled the same, but I dunno where the posts went. I clicked on the name in one of the likes and the avatar was the same but clearly not really him. Unless Yarra is pretending to be himself...which doesn't make a lot of sense. :D

 

[suomynona]

No, he isn't pretending to be himself. The fake one had an extra r. And that is not like him to behave that way. When someone made fake accounts and trolled july pic of the month thread, cap said they got the persons IP and figured out who did it.

So why not do that in this situation too? This is silly behavior that needs to go away IMO

 

[LordVane]

@YarraSparra I hope you have completely ignored Steely’s and others’ insulting comments and I hope we do continue to see you around on the forums. Some of these guys must be taking some weird inward frustration out on you. As I see it, you’re the only one who’s offered scientific facts and then tied them neatly together. There’s been a notable absence of personal opinion from you, which is more than can be said for the rest. Anyway that aside I am interested to know what strain you grow? Do you think different strains will respond to different drying techniques? Maybe volatiles will get trapped inside dense buds? Just a thought..

 

[delae632]

so everyone is clear here, some of the posts that appeared to be by yarra were not, look at the spelling of the name closely

Some real dick heads here and no mod will do anything about it??

Seriously, Logic? You want your site to appear childish??

Oh I'll do something about it. lol

So why didn't you report any of the trolling/flaming posts yourself then bud? You're right, there are a lot of dicks on here but It's up to you all as a community to help us out here. We can't be in every thread at every moment. There's a "report" button under every post for a reason. There's only a handful of mods on here, we all do the best we can and I don't appreciate your attitude towards us and logic to be honest. You know we do this shit for free right? We have families, jobs, we're growers, and some of us actually have lives:woot:....just like all of you. No one even brought all of this drama to our attention until this afternoon and I've done what I can to clean all this bullshit up since then. You're fucking welcome!

You want to call logic out? Then @logic him like you've done to me and other mods on here. ;) Don't talk shit under your breath like that.

It's blatantly obvious that you've been banned from this site before so I'd tread lightly if I was you. If you have a problem with the mods or logic then kick rocks! It's simple.