SCROG OUT OF CONTROL ... What did I do wrong... and how do I fix it?

[SnappyJack]

Hi Yawl ... back again .. taking another shot.. 2nd grow this time double the action and 1st time scrog.

So... I'll start with 2 months of veg and into the tent on 2-27-24

about 10 days later.. finished putting in a scrog net... below 1st day

Yesterday I started the first day of 12/12... and 4 days later (from installing the scrog) I have this mess: see below

Everything above the net is a side riser or the leading tip

In the interim of 4 days.. each day bending and keeping all main stems below the scrog net...

How do I keep this under control?.. I know this strain will put on a foot or more of length during it's spurt of growth in flowering... where do I send the main leading stems... can I just top them as it seems I'm going to have an army of side risers.

Incidentally ... I'm keeping a closer eye of pH and ppm... my medium is mostly leaf mold, pine bark and other stuff in lesser amounts... feed: 24-8-16...will be switching to 15-30-15 in about 2 weeks.

I've adjusted runoff to 6.2 pH and 630 ppm... I say/add this because.. I've notice that some leaves are of lighter green.. and though this is twice the amount I feed my 1st grow.. which turned out rather nicely .. I'm wondering should I be feeding her more... up to 900 ppm

Well my fellow growers... I await any and all input... thanks!

 

[Newty]

I just started doing scrog myself, I was not very aggressive with it though since it was my first time.

I defoliated pretty much everything under the net 1 week before I flipped to flower and I'll defoliate again at 2-3 weeks in flower.

I'll be watching this thread, could use tips and advice myself.

The squares in your scrog seem rather large, smaller squares would of helped with being able to tuck more strategically.

 

[TJ.Ontario]

let er grow and she'll be fine

do some defoliating starting at the bottom and the plant will put more energy into upwards growth

any little new growths bunched up in that cluster at the bottom cut em out, you wont need em

 

[TJ.Ontario]

Next time start SCROG a little sooner so they've already grown vertically above the screen and you can finish any defoliation and troubleshooting before you switch to 12-12.

 

[DeadheadJim]

This was 24

days into flip to 12/12

 

[DeadheadJim]

This was 24View attachment 2134608 days into flip to 12/12

This is today. I took the scrog down

 

[DeadheadJim]

Wrong pic. This is today

 

[SnappyJack]

Hey Newty... thanks for chiming in.. the net spacing is 4x3 inches... so I can reach in and make adjustments.. don't particularly care for bending over and crawling.. using simple techniques you can position leading flower where you want...hopefully I'll add some useful information as this scrog develops

TJ.Ontario.. thanks for input... this clone.. like it's mother see:

New Join... 1st Grow... Is it time to harvest... or what?

Hi to all you growers and inhalers... 1st grow... plant originally a salvage.. then a re-veg ( that makes it about 28 weeks old) .. now 45 days into (2nd) flower and not sure if it's time to harvest... can't really tell if the trichromes are clear or white and concerned about leaves yellowing...

www.thcfarmer.com

reacts well to daily defoliation in the first couple weeks of flowering.. just a couple stems and leaves each day.

DeadheadJim.....Déjà vu.... not sure exactly if I'd call what you did their scrog.. maybe detainment... looks like you got 1/2 dozen pots back their.. in a real scrog you'd have 2 pots with that much buds... curious how many sticks per flower pot you got their?


The common consensuses for scrog-in on the top grow site list the following or similar information.


1. What is Scrogging (Screen of Green)?

Scrogging is a cannabis plant training technique which uses a ‘screen’ suspended above the cannabis plants. Through this screen, cannabis stems are weaved (the process is also known as tucking) through the mesh as the plant grows in order to promote horizontal, rather than vertical, growth. Over time, this will produce a canopy that covers the mesh, exposing more bud sites to light and providing an even cover of flowers, producing a sea of similar sized substantial buds.

I believe this to mean one bends the main plant branch to keep it horizontal so the side branches go verticle in growth to grow into more and larger buds.

8. How do you train a cannabis plant in a SCROG grow?

Wait until the side branch growth is 2 – 3 cm above the screen before starting the training process. The aim is to evenly fill the screen, so take a moment to work out which direction you are going to weave and make sure each branch is making the best of the space available (ie don’t start weaving all branches in the same direction!) Use the soft gardening twine to hold branches lightly in place after each training session. Once this process becomes established, the plant will lead the way and the method becomes quite intuitive. The aim is to fill the screen as evenly and completely as possible.


So if per chance a pro scrog-er comes across this page ... I'll repeat my question

How do I keep this under control?.. I know this strain will put on a foot or more of length during it's spurt of growth in flowering... where do I send the main leading stems... can I just top them as it seems I'm going to have an army of side risers.

 

[RGWD0202]

Hey Newty... thanks for chiming in.. the net spacing is 4x3 inches... so I can reach in and make adjustments.. don't particularly care for bending over and crawling.. using simple techniques you can position leading flower where you want...hopefully I'll add some useful information as this scrog develops

TJ.Ontario.. thanks for input... this clone.. like it's mother see:

New Join... 1st Grow... Is it time to harvest... or what?

Hi to all you growers and inhalers... 1st grow... plant originally a salvage.. then a re-veg ( that makes it about 28 weeks old) .. now 45 days into (2nd) flower and not sure if it's time to harvest... can't really tell if the trichromes are clear or white and concerned about leaves yellowing...

www.thcfarmer.com

reacts well to daily defoliation in the first couple weeks of flowering.. just a couple stems and leaves each day.

DeadheadJim.....Déjà vu.... not sure exactly if I'd call what you did their scrog.. maybe detainment... looks like you got 1/2 dozen pots back their.. in a real scrog you'd have 2 pots with that much buds... curious how many sticks per flower pot you got their?


The common consensuses for scrog-in on the top grow site list the following or similar information.


1. What is Scrogging (Screen of Green)?

Scrogging is a cannabis plant training technique which uses a ‘screen’ suspended above the cannabis plants. Through this screen, cannabis stems are weaved (the process is also known as tucking) through the mesh as the plant grows in order to promote horizontal, rather than vertical, growth. Over time, this will produce a canopy that covers the mesh, exposing more bud sites to light and providing an even cover of flowers, producing a sea of similar sized substantial buds.

I believe this to mean one bends the main plant branch to keep it horizontal so the side branches go verticle in growth to grow into more and larger buds.

8. How do you train a cannabis plant in a SCROG grow?

Wait until the side branch growth is 2 – 3 cm above the screen before starting the training process. The aim is to evenly fill the screen, so take a moment to work out which direction you are going to weave and make sure each branch is making the best of the space available (ie don’t start weaving all branches in the same direction!) Use the soft gardening twine to hold branches lightly in place after each training session. Once this process becomes established, the plant will lead the way and the method becomes quite intuitive. The aim is to fill the screen as evenly and completely as possible.


So if per chance a pro scrog-er comes across this page ... I'll repeat my question

How do I keep this under control?.. I know this strain will put on a foot or more of length during it's spurt of growth in flowering... where do I send the main leading stems... can I just top them as it seems I'm going to have an army of side risers.

Don’t top them, too much stress for flower…

just keep tucking them, if your Scrog squares are 4x3 when the leaders get 5”/4” above the trellis depending on which direction you’re going tuck again, and keep going. if you’ve reached the sides of your tent with your leader just let it climb up, the PAR along the outside of the canopy is lower and if it gets too tall less likely to get light stressed. At least that’s how I’d approach it.

 

[SnappyJack]

RGWD0202... thanks ... seems like best / reasonable advice I've received so far... Ive come to the point where I may well consider to circle / loop back if needed.

I believe my next attempt will be not to follow the standard but to place plants pots at both ends of grow area and have them stretch / work to the center

Plant is growing quite vigorous at this time as I've transplanted into a 3 gallon pot 3-4 weeks ago.. after some in depth probing the root density is very sparse in the periphery... my last grow at harvest had such a root density.. I did not see any soil other then what 's was on top.

I've come to develop the theory / idea that entering the flowering stage having that extra space to expand the root system into will accelerate the growth of flowers / buds at the same time ... we'll see.

 

[RGWD0202]

RGWD0202... thanks ... seems like best / reasonable advice I've received so far... Ive come to the point where I may well consider to circle / loop back if needed.

I believe my next attempt will be not to follow the standard but to place plants pots at both ends of grow area and have them stretch / work to the center

Plant is growing quite vigorous at this time as I've transplanted into a 3 gallon pot 3-4 weeks ago.. after some in depth probing the root density is very sparse in the periphery... my last grow at harvest had such a root density.. I did not see any soil other then what 's was on top.

I've come to develop the theory / idea that entering the flowering stage having that extra space to expand the root system into will accelerate the growth of flowers / buds at the same time ... we'll see.

This is how mine looked before I had to cut it out due to a bunch of hermies…

 

[SnappyJack]

RGWD0202... want to say you had their a good looking and healthy crop....

Please Confirm.. you trashed all that growth?... I feel you pain...

Nice setup you got their... What variety plant was that?.. what size tent?

I see at the least 5 individual plants.. I guessing their is even more.....

I've come to a conclusion their is varying stages of SCROG..

The first stage is just guiding the stems through the square of the holes.. and that is it.. that most growers will call it scrog because it has netting.

Unknown to me at the time... I landed (when I fist start my Journey into cannabis) on a website the happened to incorporate: Topping & FIMing Low Stress Training (LST), Super cropping Manifolding , Defoliation all it seems in one grow... all which I tried to incorporate in my first grow:

New Join... 1st Grow... Is it time to harvest... or what?

Hi to all you growers and inhalers... 1st grow... plant originally a salvage.. then a re-veg ( that makes it about 28 weeks old) .. now 45 days into (2nd) flower and not sure if it's time to harvest... can't really tell if the trichromes are clear or white and concerned about leaves yellowing...

www.thcfarmer.com

6 days into scrog and the branches are starting to crisscross each other....

 

[SnappyJack]

A better illustration of the idea

 

[SnappyJack]

Looks like I'm going to turn my thread into a diary of sorts... hopefully with additional input it can be of value to the farmers / growers like me or you ... who may want to try scoging for the first time... and be able to view the mistakes .... labor / effort... and rewards of Scrogin. (hopefully all will go well)

As mentioned above this particular strain is a clone from my first grow... she shrugs of with impunity my cutting. trimming, bending an crushing.. of course all done with Love... I think that is the key.

Now that I more or less stabilized how my top ( above the screen) grow is proceeding.. I'll keep cleaning up below the screen a little at time...

​

then start defoliating the top.. that's right... one fan leave at time.

 

[Eledin]

Hello, Im glad to see another post of yours! And Im glad the previous one turned out good, it wasnt overmatured just maybe a little bit more amber than you would have liked, its gonna be good. Anyway, I do SCROG myself and I always top the plants 2 weeks prior to flowering so the secondary branches grow taller and I can lead them horizontally taking more space. If you wanna plant them on the sides and make them grow towards the middle you will need to start doing LST asap when the plant is very young, otherwise you will end up with a lot of branches touching the sides (and there wont be any net to pass them through obviously). Your main aim is to try to cover everything in the most uniform way possible, and the more you can pass the branches below the net the more cola-like buds you will have covering the top. Dont defoliate a little bit every week because that will create a constant state of stress on the plants and can end up herming, defoliation is better done with 2 weeks in between so the plant can recover and chill for a bit before the next one. I do lollipoping around week 3 of flower (removing lower leaves and also thin branches that Im not interested in) and then I tuck all the leaves I can that are blocking light, the ones that I cannot tuck I remove in week 5. My SCROG is just starting to flower but I also have some autos that are more advanced in there filling space so its a bit of a mess right now hahaha but Ill get you a pic.
EDIT: Im waiting for a better camera to give you a picture of my current SCROG but this is the last one I did:

4 plants in 5 gallon pots under 2 130W LED panels and a 75W LED bulb. The empty area on the left its because 1 plant had 2 weeks less of veg (a seedling didnt make it and had to replace it) but it happens, you try to fill it all the best you can but there's always gonna be more crowded spaces.

 

[cannafarmer420]

A better illustration of the idea

View attachment 2135882​

I do this, I top once twice and the LST them out. Works well for me

 

[RGWD0202]

RGWD0202... want to say you had their a good looking and healthy crop....

Please Confirm.. you trashed all that growth?... I feel you pain...

Nice setup you got their... What variety plant was that?.. what size tent?

I see at the least 5 individual plants.. I guessing their is even more.....

I've come to a conclusion their is varying stages of SCROG..

The first stage is just guiding the stems through the square of the holes.. and that is it.. that most growers will call it scrog because it has netting.

Unknown to me at the time... I landed (when I fist start my Journey into cannabis) on a website the happened to incorporate: Topping & FIMing Low Stress Training (LST), Super cropping Manifolding , Defoliation all it seems in one grow... all which I tried to incorporate in my first grow:

New Join... 1st Grow... Is it time to harvest... or what?

Hi to all you growers and inhalers... 1st grow... plant originally a salvage.. then a re-veg ( that makes it about 28 weeks old) .. now 45 days into (2nd) flower and not sure if it's time to harvest... can't really tell if the trichromes are clear or white and concerned about leaves yellowing...

www.thcfarmer.com

6 days into scrog and the branches are starting to crisscross each other....

I Started with I believe 6 White Widow, they were bag seeds I removed 1 at the start of flower and then ended up removing 3 more, I just harvested 2 of them. Once I removed the Scrog to get the 3 hermits out, I couldn’t bend the branches back down of the two remaining plants with out breaking something so I ended up letting them be, they were too tall and too close to the light for the remainder of flower. 4x2x5
My plan is to get a taller 4x4 or maybe 5x5 soon

Just started day 5 of my next grow.

 

[SnappyJack]

Eledin... and I'm happy to have you visit with me again...thanks for stopping in!

Well I have topped these a while back... prior to having a tent.. and prior to having a plan to scrog. basically planing to go the same route as the first grow but with double the punch... without a solid beginning plan... most definitely I would of followed your suggestion: "start doing LST asap when the plant is very young"

But this indeed is the fun of growing... watching.. studying... participating.. modifying. and learning.

The mother of these two... was herself manipulated daily... all the way to end of flowering... Ive read the standard for treatment in the flowering stages.. Quite possibly I'll be taking some risks.... I'm here to have fun... and to bounce off the boundaries... it's all about the journey my friend..

Let me know what strains you have had luck with in scroging... my understanding it is mostly those with or predominantly sativa's.


RGWD0202.. thanks for the info.. are your planing to scrog your just started grow?

Here's what I'm eventually aiming for:

 

[Eledin]

Eledin... and I'm happy to have you visit with me again...thanks for stopping in!

Well I have topped these a while back... prior to having a tent.. and prior to having a plan to scrog. basically planing to go the same route as the first grow but with double the punch... without a solid beginning plan... most definitely I would of followed your suggestion: "start doing LST asap when the plant is very young"

But this indeed is the fun of growing... watching.. studying... participating.. modifying. and learning.

The mother of these two... was herself manipulated daily... all the way to end of flowering... Ive read the standard for treatment in the flowering stages.. Quite possibly I'll be taking some risks.... I'm here to have fun... and to bounce off the boundaries... it's all about the journey my friend..

Let me know what strains you have had luck with in scroging... my understanding it is mostly those with or predominantly sativa's.


RGWD0202.. thanks for the info.. are your planing to scrog your just started grow?

Here's what I'm eventually aiming for:
View attachment 2136632

View attachment 2136633​

Funny enough thats how I started doing SCROG too, in one of my first grows my plants were getting out of control so I searched on google what to do, I toped them and the 2 top colas were still growing to the roof of my tent so I bought a net and learned to SCROG. What lights are you using? Im using x2 130W panels so for me trying to get a SCROG like those in the pictures is unrealistic. I can fill the whole tent but not as packed and with those massive buds. Eventually Ill get a 600W panel, I thought when I transitioned to LED about 2 years ago that around 200W would be enough to get around what I used to get with 600W HPS but boy was I wrong hahaha. Dont get me wrong, LED for me is the way to go and theyre great, the spectrum is more sunlike and theyre more energy efficient but at the time I fell for how much the brands exagerate. Example, this brand claims that this 130W panel is equivalent to 1200W HPS, which is ridiculous and borderline a scam but when I bought the ones I have I knew already. I started with 150W LED 2 years ago and even if I wanted to, I couldnt have done a SCROG at all, not enough light to give enough growth to pass them through the net, it was x2 75W LED bulbs (the fact that they were bulbs dont help even if they were in a reflector) and boy it was SAD to see what I was getting compared to the 600W HPS so I had to quickly upgrade and wasted 100 euros for nothing. Now the feeding, I personally dont meassure PPM because I grow in my own supersoil which is full of ph and nute buffers (perlite, vermiculite, expanded clay pebbles, leonardite and specially partially activated biochar) so what I do is I just feed them more progressively until I see a few yellow or burned tips (it theyre only on top it can be the light being too close) then go back to the previous dosage and keep it that way if the plant responds well. A few burned or yellow tips are not gonna cause any problem, its the only way to truly see how much they can eat. Sometimes with the recomended dosage they already get burned tips so you never know. About good strains for SCROG, theres many, usually the seller already says if its a good strain for SOG, SCROG or if it shouldnt be trained at all or just a little bit of LST. Sativas are good yes, they tend to get tall so you can pass more branch through the net but in my case I prefeer bushy indicas because my space is limited (3x3feet) and they are more packed (this increases the risk of mold tho). There's also medium and tall size indicas that work as well or even better, specially the very bushy ones. They also tell you how many grams per square foot or meter you can get so thats a good indication (again, they will specify or you can find via google if that strain is better for SCROG or rather SOG in order to get the maxium potential). OG Kush variants are very productive and high in THC, good indicas for SCROG, my personal favorite OG Kush is Fat Banana by Royal Queen Seeds, Chiquita Banana + OG Kush. Packs a punch and its sweet, fruity and it does have a hint of banana but is not the most productive for an OG Kush, around 300-400gr/m2 if you do it right, which is still pretty good.

 

[SnappyJack]

Eledin... similar paths.. different continents... using these light / lights for the past 6 months:

Amazon.com

You can get a 240 watt combo for $62us if my math is correct that's 26 cents a watt.. what sold me on this unit was the led coating.. and the extra aluminum they put into construction.. no other led I came across gives you that.. cooler led= longer life .. and the cost of course.

I saw through equivalent the crap.. read adv. straight to wattage usage (that where I get my rating) they say their rated for 120 watts.. I get a little less on wattage meter... but to me the lumen (1st unit) output at 6 inches was close to the maximum cannabis can use.. funny thing my last/first grow I mostly used 50% of power.. using 100% in the last few weeks.. before dialing back in the last week

Again similar path on nutrients usage.. browning tips... common sense proactive approach..however... my soil is home made compost leaf mold urine activated with shovel fulls of existing natural bio-diverse woodlands topsoil... then potted with a 1/2 cup of chicken shit and other ingredients.

Now about the types / strains of cannabis.. I really know... very little (JackShit) .. hope fully in the future you can give me some education on that.