SCROG OUT OF CONTROL ... What did I do wrong... and how do I fix it?

[SnappyJack]

Continuing with now what has become "My 1st scrog diary"...

I started with this scrog grow with a bit of uncertainty... and since it's my 1st Scrog.. their still remains a bit of it.

So I will continue to log my observations and thoughts.. perhaps like many of those who keep a log / diary of their grow... just for the hell of it... and just maybe it might help a new farmer on his journey to having fun with cannabis...

So my understanding is to force multiple auxiliary branches from the main branches forming at the top of the plant through a series of previous edits in the form of: Topping FIMing Low Stress Training (LST), Super cropping Manifolding...

This will reward you with multiple main colas... which top buds tend to be the thickest and the fattest of the bunch...

I'd like to point out the the majority of auxiliary branches poking up into the canopy are obscured by those in front.

 

[SnappyJack]

Getting to the part of having many multiple main colas... is going to take a bit of work.. It will take daily effort to manipulate and guide the newly formed branches... if you followed along you would see in less than 2 weeks these plants have put out dozens of new risers / branches.

In the image below... I've lead the leading tip underneath a string.. in anticipation that it will grow longer and the grid square to the left has room for a new lead riser... whether it make it their or not... won't break a sweat... just an effort..

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My personal observation reveals that you need to move very quickly in the first week of flower... and you have to be ready and willing to react ... if not than your yield and excitement of having a phenomenal grow will come up short.

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Just continuing to stretch the leading ends to less crowded grid holes... just know that some leading branches you'll not be able to do much with . Most likely (it seems) the ones on the boundaries of the scrog net will have a mind of their own... and frustrate you.. no... i didn't cut them down... but I did think about it... just ... it seems they keep snickering at me...


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[Eledin]

Getting to the part of having many multiple main colas... is going to take a bit of work.. It will take daily effort to manipulate and guide the newly formed branches... if you followed along you would see in less than 2 weeks these plants have put out dozens of new risers / branches.

In the image below... I've lead the leading tip underneath a string.. in anticipation that it will grow longer and the grid square to the left has room for a new lead riser... whether it make it their or not... won't break a sweat... just an effort..

View attachment 2138578
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My personal observation reveals that you need to move very quickly in the first week of flower... and you have to be ready and willing to react ... if not than your yield and excitement of having a phenomenal grow will come up short.

View attachment 2138581
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Just continuing to stretch the leading ends to less crowded grid holes... just know that some leading branches you'll not be able to do much with . Most likely (it seems) the ones on the boundaries of the scrog net will have a mind of their own... and frustrate you.. no... i didn't cut them down... but I did think about it... just ... it seems they keep snickering at me...


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"My personal observation reveals that you need to move very quickly in the first week of flower... and you have to be ready and willing to react ... if not than your yield and excitement of having a phenomenal grow will come up short."
You have aproximately 3 weeks since flowering starts to pass branches (maybe 4 if they start slow after you put them in 12/12), after that whatever didnt reach the net wont do it, or if you try to bend them too late they wont grow back towards the light. Youre doing a great job and yes that one that you just bended will grow again even if slower than in the first week, dont worry. The worst that can happen is that it stops growing, in which case you can use the net to support the branch instead being of it underneath, or if its not too bent you can put it right where it was without the net. About the branches on the wall that you cannot pass through the net and grow taller, thats completely normal if you only top and and SCROG and have limited space. I have 4 plants, I could put 2 instead and avoid side branches but I would also get less production and I have not felt like doing any LST prior to toping in my last grows, its a lot of work but if you wanna do it in the next grow the tutorial that was given to you in this post is perfect.

 

[Eledin]

As promised, here are some pics from my current SCROG, Im at week 3+ and still bending a branch here and there. This one is a "mess" cause I used tubular pots so I could fit more. The ones that look more advanced are autos, I wanted to see if its reliable to have some autos along with the photos at 12-12. I know that you can but they say the yield suffers, Im trying to see how much it suffers, thats why you will see some plants that are more advanced than others. I have 4 big plants in the middle in 6,5 gallon pots and 4 autos in 2 gallon pots. I still have side branches in the back tho, I didnt put autos there cause I cant reach them to water them (I only have access from 1 side because of where its positioned, and this tent only has 1 door anyway) and since those side branches are further away from the light its okay if theyre a bit taller.

This one I bent today, trying to fill the left side a bit more.

This is one of the autos that I have on the sides, I didnt expect them to reach the net but they did, both nets, so I passed it through the net, all the buds you see in this pic are from the same auto, much better than having side branches, I think Ill keep doing it. (Mind that the autos are not toped, I was gonna grow them the old school way. Many autos dont respond well to toping and being under 12-12 I didnt wanna risk it, I dont want cotton candy buds, but I will do it with one the next harvest to see what happens now that I know that bubblgum autos grow this tall)

It might not look like much now but when the buds from the 4 big photo ones start growing it should be a nice view. Next monday is defoliation day, I already took a few out from the top when I did the lollipoping but there's still a lot.

 

[SnappyJack]

Eledin.. you've been a very.. very busy farmer... thanks... lot of good information in your posts. The plants in the images look like sativa strains... Be sure to post me an image below your netting I'd like to see how far I can go in defoliation below and above. The plants in the images look like sativa strains...

 

[SnappyJack]

To get my idea across and express my understanding of this type of scrog-ing. In the image below... the main branches below the canopy / screen and those branches that will "sprout" the auxiliary branches that will make it to the top of canopy above the screen. You'll have more time to work with them... (their mother was manipulated late into flower as I kept bending the stems to bring the height into some uniformity).

Here you will notice that the main branches beneath the screen are the main supply trunks to the auxiliary branches (other than the leading end which will be those most likely to form colas at the perimeter.) these are the branches that have formed from fimming and topping to those that have preceded them.

These main branches (in the case of this sativa strain) will take their position within the 1st weeks of flowering (less than 2 weeks) .. and after that their is little chance for them to be re-positioned or moved..(other than the leading end) this is because they have begun to harden much more than the auxiliary branches that are still forming and growing towards the light. In this particular grow less then two weeks... their not going anywhere.. their position is anchored because of the many Auxiliary branches poking up through the netting... the only thing you can do at this time is damage them... don't do that.

Just a few of the many.. that will form the tops of your grow.​

 

[Eledin]

Eledin.. you've been a very.. very busy farmer... thanks... lot of good information in your posts. The plants in the images look like sativa strains... Be sure to post me an image below your netting I'd like to see how far I can go in defoliation below and above. The plants in the images look like sativa strains...

You have a nice eye, those leaves look all like sativas right? The 4 Ripper Haze (Amnesia Haze from Ripper Seeds) in big pots are 80% sativa but the Bubble Gum autos are 40% sativa 60% indica. Bubblegum is a good example of a tall indica dominant, it might even let me do a toping next grow, lets see, you can tell the 40% sativa in it unlike with others, like for example if you mix an og kush with a sativa it tends to take over the sativa side in terms of genetics and the contrary happens with bubble gum. The lights are off right now, Ill show you a pic tomorrow and even with all Ive taken out I would take more out from the 2 in the back I just cant make it, my kness and my elasticity are not what they used to be hahaha but the two in the front are very clean.
Nice examples and well executed. For branches that harden too much you either pray that they get longer so you can pass them again or get a second net above the first one.

 

[SnappyJack]

DAY 10 OF FLOWER / 14 DAY SCROG​

In the image below... notice the highlight on the perimeter branch leaders.... as mentioned earlier these will end up thwarting your idea of an even topped budding grow... as they will outpace the majority of the risers / aux-branches.

Notice the areas directly above the pots... a novice mistake... where are all the risers?
I tried but couldn't do it.
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But I do want to mention what I also did notice... in my first grow and in this one.. that even though some areas look devoid of the possibility of large flowers... they all add to the health of the whole.. without their support and processing... you wouldn't have the big buds.

Time to manipulate any main leader stems above the screen... time is running out... see below... Snappy.. that's what happened to this leader.. after many careful bends to many branches, it happens... those risers that are still pliable can be still worked... but not much you can do with them because the screen is all filled out.

Below: Added bone-meal before it's too (already) late.. mixed into soil perimeter... takes 1-4 months for maximum effect... has calcium and phosphorus.. my leaf mold is acidic.. will counteract that.. maybe. And you all know what phosphorus does.

And last but not least. a view of day 10 of 12/12... I keep the lights a lot closer to the green / tops... now it's up for image and examination.

A SCROGING WE WILL GO... A SCROGING WE WILL GO... HI-HO ,THE DERRY-O.... A SCROGING WE WILL GO​

 

[Eledin]

There's a technique which consists on snaping the stems just enough so they dont break, the plant will form a node there which suposedly (Never tried it myself) is gonna move more nutes to the stem making it bigger and more productive than the rest. If you snap one really bad here's a quick tip for an easy fix:

So dont worry, your stem is gonna be absolutely fine, maybe will get out stronger even than it was before. But yes, I get it, some of them are too thick and there's not much you can do without a second net. Theyre looking mighty fine tho . Its very hard for them to mature evenly but yes, different heights dont help. I have a friend that grows professionally and even with clones he gives them 1 full day of darkness before 12-12 so they all get the message quick that its time to go flower, he swears that it helps for them to mature more evenly and Im gonna start trying it next grow.
Here's my lower side of the plants, the fan leaves poking from the right side in the frame are from the autos, I did defoliate them too but not as much, they dont have as many leaves. You can also tell where I cant reach, in the back there's some small bud sites that I cant pinch out.

 

[Eledin]

Forgot to mention, if you wanna see more colas from my previous SCROG I have a few of them in a video (mind the volume, Im a noob at editing). Thats like half of the big colas, the other half was already hanging to dry (Like the ones I showed with the apple). Then I had medium and small buds in a drying net. The small ones (located at the bottom of the drying net) are for kief which I use for multiple edibles, I mix small buds with sticky trimmed leaves. This harvest Im only focusing on the big ones because I have enough kief for a while now and Im gonna get more from the trimmings when I do the manicure this harvest, nothing goes to waste here hahaha.

 

[SnappyJack]

Eledin.. I look at the broken stem as another experiment... Let me know are those plants in the last image of your post grown from seed?
From ilovegrowingmarijuan : "The only concern with manifolding clones is that they have asymmetrical nodes, which means you end up with one side having more instead of getting equal numbers of branches. However, clones can handle stress much better than autos"

 

[Eledin]

Eledin.. I look at the broken stem as another experiment... Let me know are those plants in the last image of your post grown from seed?
From ilovegrowingmarijuan : "The only concern with manifolding clones is that they have asymmetrical nodes, which means you end up with one side having more instead of getting equal numbers of branches. However, clones can handle stress much better than autos"

Yes I grow from seed, those pics are from 4 Crystal Candy from Sweet Seeds, I got 1 blue pheno and 3 green ones. Thats another thing with seeds, many times they will taste slightly (or even quite a lot) different even if its from the same strain, or look slightly different. No, my friend does SOG not SCROG, the clone thing is to ilustrate my point that even with clones (same phenotype, should all be the same more or less)) some can still get behind or be lazy y so he gives them 1 day of darkness before the 12-12 so they are going more or less at the same pace.
These are the 2 last grows from my friend. The first has 2 different strains so the differences are okay, but even the one from the same strain same mother can look different. The second pic is from his last grow, in that one every single one came from the same mother, You can still see some differences but less.

He is from Spain too, unfortunately he lives too far away from me so we exchanged weed like once over the years but he grows top quality stuff, sells it for 8 euros to a cannabis club. Thats quite nice, they must sell it for 12/g or so, maybe even more.

 

[SnappyJack]

DAY 13 OF,,, 12/12FLOWER
(1st Scrog Log)​

It seems I'm a little late in changing to flower fertilizer... been feeding nearly every other day .. the other day I've notice that a few of the leader branches are turning a little rev-taco and limp looking..

(in the image above you'll notice a little yellow arrow it's pointing the branch that was snapped 2/3 in half.. I just propped in place.. I haven't noticed any wilting.. well see if it makes it.)


From what I've read from cannabis grow sites this can be caused by watering errors or by too much nitrogen at flower time... some articles say go a week or two with veg fertilizers into start of flower before switching .. My next feeding will be flower / bloom fertilizer.

I'm not worried about this... no need to panic... it's only on a few leaves...


Everyday I try to get in 20 minutes of maintenance / care to the girls... it's a good time to start trimming right under the net any auxiliary branches that are runts.. those branches that will not really amount to much and possibly just put a strain on the rest of the flowering buds.

I just do a few each day.. I believe if the whole growth is going well and even in flower... the plant will shrug it off.

Well we will find out...​

 

[Eledin]

You know Im not a fan on defoliating a bit every day but because I had hermies before. As for the rest you seem to be doing well. Yes thats 100% nitrogen toxicity from using growing nutes but is only a few leaves like you said, no biggie. In the first 3 week period after 12/12 I mix equal parts of veg and bloom to avoid that, the plant is doing both things anyway (growing and starting to form bud sites). If I go with only bloom for the first 3 weeks I noticed that they tend to yellow much faster so I do like that extra nitrogen but in lower doses than veg.

 

[SnappyJack]

"You know Im not a fan on defoliating a bit every day".. I tend to be a bit of an experimenter...making mistakes is how I learn.......................................................................................................................................................... as long as it doesn't blow my head off.

If it ever got out what I did to their mother .... I would be banned from the Catholic Church...
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I'm sure if I had a grow that hermied .. I would be cautious also...

For vegetation I use: 24 8 16 and for Flower / Bloom I use: 15 30 15

 

[Eledin]

"You know Im not a fan on defoliating a bit every day".. I tend to be a bit of an experimenter...making mistakes is how I learn.......................................................................................................................................................... as long as it doesn't blow my head off.

If it ever got out what I did to their mother .... I would be banned from the Catholic Church...
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I'm sure if I had a grow that hermied .. I would be cautious also...

For vegetation I use: 24 8 16 and for Flower / Bloom I use: 15 30 15

Hahaha its okay I know your type and Im kinda the same. I would take the advice but many times Id rather see for myself than just trust someone. What brand of ferts are you using again? I personally dont like those ratios, way too much nitrogen for my liking in both. Of course doesnt mean theyre wrong, I just like to use different ratios, nitrogen is mostly for growth and they put a lot in bloom fertilizers sometimes because the first 3 weeks its still growing and if they dont have enough nitrogen they might get more yellow leaves, which in their mind I think could make a customer think the ferts are not good enough. Lets say someone who is in bloom first grow sees yellowing because he is using a low N bloom fertilizer and decides to fertilize more, he is gonna burn the plant, with low nitrogen bloom fertilizers you just gotta take those leaves out or let them fall on their own, is no biggie at that point. My bloom fert is 1-4-4 but the first three weeks of flower I mix equal parts as I said, my veg fertilizer is 2-1,5-1 (The values are so low cause you need like 10ml per liter with this one when theyre big, Alghemp from Trabe)

 

[SnappyJack]

I use what worked for the mother...

24 8 16 divide by 8 = 3 1 2 and
15 30 15 divide by 15 = 1 2 1

Now it doesn't look as extreme.. its just more concentration of NPK per ml or tsp

Now it really becomes more of a matter of PPM... I realized in my first grow I was underfeeding the mother only after finding a long lost ppm meter did I realize the recommended dosage by the manufacture is less than 1/2 what the plant wanted.

last feed (2nd grow) they were only receiving 585 ppm with a RO of 450... I believe they should be getting closer to 900.. i'll have to double check.

I've learned from my last grow.. something you pointed out...and I concur that if majority of the plant looks great not to worry so much.. these had yellow leaves turning brown and dry duing their veg period.. It din't phase me long as the majority was green and healthy.

 

[Mytwhyt]

This is a 9 year old thread this march. A few things are misstated. The screen was only 18"x24" . 9 years ago the led was about $500dollars, they've better and a hell of a lot cheaper now...
The Igloos were an attempt to beat the heat with frozen water bottles changed every day. The way it's plumed is that the dripring draws water from the reservoir and gravity returns it to the reservoir by a separate line..
The water cannot enter the grow bucket until the dripring draws it from the reservoir into the grow bucket. The net result is about 5 gallons of water flow an hour from the reservoir..
Later in the grow, as you can see I was wanting to add more light to the grow with a couple of 150 watt florescents... It never happened... The thread also covers a few things we've been talking about here.
I use only one fert. throughout the grow. Flora Nova Bloom. I just change the amount as the plant goes from veg, to grow, to flower. Because the 3% citric acid was removed from the FNB the ph sometimes needed to be adjusted. https://www.420magazine.com/communi...og-recirculating-reservoir-ds-200-led.243592/

 

[SnappyJack]

Hey Mytwhyt... thanks for stopping by.... I'm thinking.. maybe you made a wrong turn somewhere...

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[Mytwhyt]

Was it a left or a right turn. Can't be to carful nowadays. You'll need to be a little more specific for guidance.. The thread was mostly about one way to feed and scrog, with harsh management from start to finish.