Sealed,2k HPS, H2O cooled;SD13::Round 2

[Mystre.Pharmer]

all flood and drain growers, how soon (close to lights on) is your first feeding? and how late (close to lights off) is your last feeding?

thanks!

-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

I stole this from another forum:

here

"most ebb systems do not have covers and water evaporation is excessive. Your ebbsystem has covers giving the roots a more humid habitat.
This is a good thing. Since you have covers, you do not have to feed as often as other ebb systems. 2 to 3 times a day should be efficient.
You dont need a feeding at night, you difference in temp is too extreme to be feeding at night and the roots will not dry out overnight, just make your last feeding a half hour before the lights go out and the first feeding within the first hour the lights go on.
Correct those two problems and things should clear up within days. Remember, that lamp is heating up the table covers too and roots hate warmer temps. "

Not that it matters but they are talking about 'turbo-flo tables' or somthing i never heard of.

But my ebb and flow containers are "covered" they are pretty much sealed (I have a 4" whole to fit im hand in, but its covered by neoprene circle completely) he stated that an ebb and flow covered table would only need to be flooded like 2-3 times a day. I dunno if i believe that but I think Im going to be playing around with feeding times as soon as i get my house to myself again ;) I want to be able to check on them every halfhour or something so they wont dry out.

Maybe feed 30 mins after lights on, then every 4 hours for 4 min flood durations or something? Im just thinking outloud. suggestions welcome :)

-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Shady]

Ahh, No wonder... :thinking For some strange reason I thought this was aero cuz of all that aero discussion, but now I remember this is a DIY system you created.

Typically the plants droop in the morning after feeding, straighten up for the rest of the day and begin to droop near lights out... They got their own biological clock. If they're drooping in the middle of the day it could be too much or too little water and I typically touch the petioles to determine whether they're flaccid or turgid to determine if I'm giving too much or too little...

I've discovered that the best flood and drain intervals for my plants in veg is only twice a day and 3 times a day for bloom. In bloom I flood at lights on, the mid afternoon, and an hour before lights off... I use hydroton though and the clay balls hold just enough moisture. I do agree that it's important to not flood too much depending on plant and root size... Maybe start at a lower interval and duration until the roots are established and then increase as needed...

 

[FileError404]

Hey a fellow OG survivor! I read your intro post (its alot like my intro post hehe) if i may, how/where do you hang your CHHC-1 sensor? I have the same unit and am just curious about your placement of it.

I concur about the DD systems. but I want to see someone attempt a dd-like setup but with a real areoponic system with the 50 micron water droplet size. I think that would be crazy fun to watch :) huge areo trees!! :nod

Just read your intro post, too :) OG was the best... You know if Locutus is still around somewhere?

My CHHC1 sensor is located opposite from the fan where the hose is connected. I run a tank and the output hose is connected to the back of an oscillating fan. The sensor is about 8' opposite.

Veg or flower, If you don't mind running to change tanks, set your PPm to 1400 with a deadband of 50 and don't run it in fuzzy logic mode.

Best of luck!

 

[DND]

Very nice setup. I was also an old school OG member, those were the days. I will be following along.

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Just read your intro post, too :) OG was the best... You know if Locutus is still around somewhere?

My CHHC1 sensor is located opposite from the fan where the hose is connected. I run a tank and the output hose is connected to the back of an oscillating fan. The sensor is about 8' opposite.

Veg or flower, If you don't mind running to change tanks, set your PPm to 1400 with a deadband of 50 and don't run it in fuzzy logic mode.

Best of luck!

thanks for the tip. I use a Hydrogen CO2 generator and burn propane, last grow I needed just over 1 tank like 1.5 tanks of propane for my room for its CO2 needs. I like burning propane because I don't need to carry around CO2 tanks ;) downsides are increased heat and humidity, but If you plan for both than its easy-peasy :party0042:

I've been moving thermometers all around my room checking how my chhc-1 is getting the room accurately. it seems where i have it hung now, its about 1-1.5 degree off from my other thermos but the humidity is spot on, and I'm about to purchase one of those inexpensive co2 air injector kit things i hope i don't need to recalibrate it or anything (i doubt it its still newish) that'd be difficult at this point

Very nice setup. I was also an old school OG member, those were the days. I will be following along.

hey whats up DND! weren't those days fun :) all the awesome threads about just about everything you could imagine!! I always enjoyed the stealth stuff people did other there, really creative. thanks for the kind words, glad to have ya aboard ;)

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

OK so i found these on my computer, I only got to snap these 4 pictures before the battery died for the camera. I was super busy around that time, everything was very chaotic. I was lucky to get these pics :rauch08: .

and since there isn't much changing in the room (still on 18/6) I'd thought I'd post these pics:

If you look REALLY closely on this one (below) you can see the slightest blue hues.... lol i know im stretching, but i swear i see it! lol

These pictures where taken of the second cut down (the right side of the room) and these are a few random shots before the battery died, also I had already spent hours trimming before these were taken, so these are kinda "whats left" not that they where bad or anything :)

thanks for stopping by

Happy Pharming!
-Mystre.Pharmer

Edit: These pictures don't do them justice really, i was rushing :( ... ENJOY :)

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

I typically touch the petioles to determine whether they're flaccid or turgid to determine if I'm giving too much or too little...

Maybe start at a lower interval and duration until the roots are established and then increase as needed...

Very interesting about the petioles, I've never heard this before. any idea where you learned it? I'd like to read more about that :) see some examples maybe, so do they like droop when over watered? I've only ever looked closely at them to see about nutrients, I've read that they will show the first signs of over fert.

I've changed my feeding schedule and tonight will be able to monitor it as ill be able to freely enter when ever during their light cycle :sun2:

-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Medipatient]

Glad to see you back at the forums Mystre.Pharmer. You've made some really nice upgrades to your room. How long are you going to veg those plants for?

Looking good, a very nice grow room imho. looking forward to watch this grow unfold.

Medi

 

[cheech]

hey mystre pharmer.. i have a question for ya. i'm really interested in your water cooling setup. i was wondering whether your closed grow environment can keep temps at 80 with your 2000 watts even when the temps outside are around 90. if you can do that with the two ice boxes i'd for sure be willing to invest in a diy chiller(ac wall unit), a pump, and a heat exchanger. i was looking at these earlier...

keep cool. :)

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

hey mystre pharmer.. i have a question for ya. i'm really interested in your water cooling setup. i was wondering whether your closed grow environment can keep temps at 80 with your 2000 watts even when the temps outside are around 90. if you can do that with the two ice boxes i'd for sure be willing to invest in a diy chiller(ac wall unit), a pump, and a heat exchanger. i was looking at these earlier...

keep cool. :)

Hey there Cheech, Thats a kinda tuff question to answer because it would depend on a few things. will you be using a chiller to cool the water? at first glance of the question I'd say definetly. if your room is sealed well, the outside temps wouldn't matter too much. but a chiller won't be AS efficient in 90 degree weather. My chiller never gets air warmer than 82 (atleast not yet, summer is around the corner). Properly set up, Id say there would be no problem keeping the room 10 degrees cooler than outside.

My 2k watts gets cooled by the 440cfm fan and one icebox and it totally gets rid of all that heat that's created by them. then my other Icebox and 440cfm fan are used as A/C and only turns on when my 2 dehumidifiers and CO2 burner raise the temps too high, it hardly turns on for long when it does turn on.

The amount of temperature control you can get with a system like this will make you giddy :giggle . I set my day temp for 82 and its never below 81 and never above 83. If i really wanted to i think i could make that differential smaller too by changing my CHHC-1 deadband to a lower number ;)

hope i helped :) if you have anymore questions feel free. just keep in mind when picking you chiller (or making it) go bigger just in case ;) i think the website recommends 1/4HP per 1k, I'd suggest 1/3 but also keep in mind dehumidifiers create alot of heat, as do CO2 burners, and ballasts. don't leave anything out when calculating the amount of cooling you'll need or you'll regret it terribly.

Happy Pharming!
-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Shady]

Very interesting about the petioles, I've never heard this before. any idea where you learned it? I'd like to read more about that :) see some examples maybe, so do they like droop when over watered? I've only ever looked closely at them to see about nutrients, I've read that they will show the first signs of over fert.

Honestly, I think I picked it up from a buddy and a few obscure sites... :itwasntme

Well it seems as though heavy over-watering creates very turgid petioles since they are full of water, and so much that it actually may curve down, appearing as if droopy. Underwatering tends to create a flaccid petiole... at least that's what I've observed. So it seems that a consistent osmotic pressure, pH, and nutrient uptake are very important for that sweet spot in the middle.

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Change of plans:

Greetings fellow Pharmers!

Been real busy lately, but the ladies are doing good. most of em are pretty much definitely a foot tall. There have been a change of plans for the grow style. I think i stated earlier that i had some cloning issues and that's why I wasn't doing SOG and why i had 16 plants for a 4x4ish area. well, I had plants in my cloners still. and I have about 40 saved (still alive), about 27 are rooted really well and are growing in my cloner. about 4 are about to root and the rest have roots but haven't shown signs of any new growth yet (but they will).

So I trimmed my 16 original plants very heavily, as if i was growing them SOG style. I've never let plants veg this long and trimmed like this before, should be interesting ;). So all 4 posts that are in the room are pushed together (since there are no more side branches) and centered under the light.

I want to keep my rotted clones out of the room for 2 weeks (but I think I can only grow them another week in the cloner they are gettin kinda big).

The reasoning behind holding them off for 2 weeks is so that I can finally start perpetual harvests.

I took about 93 clones from the plants I trimmed and will only want to keep 36 (4 posts with 9 plants per) these plants will have a month before I want them in the room, hopefully they don't grow to fast ;)

So the idea is that I clone my plants with their heavy SOG trimming and those clones will have a month till i want them to be well rooted and transplanted.

Then I'll be harvesting 4 posts (36 plants) every 2 weeks and I'm hoping no less than a pound per harvest. This first 4 post harvest should be very interesting tho. I'm curious to see how SOG plants grow with a longer veg, (will it just equal a bigger/denser cola?) I've wanted to try a long veg with sog style for a long time :)


Here are some pictures of the roots :

these next two are the same:

these are different:

Ill get in there and get pictures of the devastating trim (its always so hard to cut off SOOO much lol, but the more I cut the first time, the easier/less stressful the second trim will be)


Thanks for stopping by

Happy Pharming!

-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Any one have experience with the Botanicare Triflex nutrients? Im interested in them. I've always liked the idea of organic (but not so much soil ;) ) I use lucas formula now, with some hygrozyme, and occasionally H2O2. but I'd be interested in peoples thoughts or if you've looked into it already and have links or anything about Triflex and their feeding schedule.

Thanks for stopping by

Happy Pharming!
-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Medipatient]

Looking good, nice roots. cant wait to see you room full of sog plants. you're going to put 9 plants per post? what like every 6 inches? meaning a 4.5 foot area? is that right? just curious.

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Greetings fellow pharmers!

I have some picture updates :)

These two are from Day 1 of 12/12 as their first feeding is happening and their first pictures of their trim ;)

These pictures are from Day 2 of 12/12:

... told you guys it was an aggressive trim, but i find that the bigger the first trim, the easier the second is and they seem to bounce back faster if the second time i don't have to trim as much (second trim will be about day 9,10,or 11 of 12/12, because they start to show nugs at day 12 i believe)


And their root shots from Day 2:

They are on full strength Lucas formula and seem happier in 12/12 then they did in 18/6. Dunno why tho. :tongueout I gotta run tho, Ill be taking pictures tonight and will try to get em posted tonight too, but we'll see ;)

Thanks for stopping by

Happy Pharming!
-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[CasualEncounter]

whats up Mystre! how'd i miss your second journal ;) been outta da loop. your upgrades are looking sweet bro. when your room is filled with SOG i bet your yields will be amazing. if you plan on 9 plants a post (i think i read that somewhere please correct me if im wrong) and 4 posts per that would be 36 plants in a 4.5'x2' area right? if you were to get a half oz per plant that would still be 18oz every 2 weeks? how much do you think you can yield per plant that close together? because i think the potential is there, you've built a quality room for your little ladies ;)

 

[CaliShark]

Wow you weren't joking when you said aggressive! They look like damn palm trees! I've never seen anyone trim that much, I thought you should only trim up the lower 1/3 of the plant...

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Looking good, nice roots. cant wait to see you room full of sog plants. you're going to put 9 plants per post? what like every 6 inches? meaning a 4.5 foot area? is that right? just curious.

Thanks for stopping by medipatient. Yes 9 plants per post and 16 posts for a canopy of 4.5'x8' total when full. I figured the extra plant per post wont hurt any of the other plants ;) it may not get as big on the end but who cares, imma be buying bubble bags pretty soon ;)

whats up Mystre! how'd i miss your second journal ;) been outta da loop. your upgrades are looking sweet bro. when your room is filled with SOG i bet your yields will be amazing. if you plan on 9 plants a post (i think i read that somewhere please correct me if im wrong) and 4 posts per that would be 36 plants in a 4.5'x2' area right? if you were to get a half oz per plant that would still be 18oz every 2 weeks? how much do you think you can yield per plant that close together? because i think the potential is there, you've built a quality room for your little ladies ;)

Hey! ah no worries this second journal is jsut getting started :) yes that many plants, a full room will have 144 plants under the 2k :) .

Well, obviously these original 16 plants had a longer veg than any of my other plants that Ill be putting in there. But yet im expecting 1/2oz per plant as a minimum really, i think they can do better. after some experimentation with vegging clones in one of my cloners before transplanting, I think they will perform very well :) thanks for the complements :)

Wow you weren't joking when you said aggressive! They look like damn palm trees! I've never seen anyone trim that much, I thought you should only trim up the lower 1/3 of the plant...

haha sure wasn't ;) they do look like palm trees! lol trimming the bottom 1/3 of the plant is the normal standard, then a second trim right before buds form,if you truly want only one large cola. As with everything involving these plants everything varies a little from strain to strain even pheno to pheno. I find that a more aggressive trim as early as possible to their initial 12/12 flip is best. here's my reasoning:

the plants need to recover from trimming, there is a little shock they go through when trimmed. but I find that if i trim more earlier I might not even need to trim the second time around (day 9 or 10 for my strain is when buds begin to form) so IF i do need to trim on that second occasion it'll be less than otherwise needed and so the recovery time will be faster and they can continue budding.

also my strain stretches a little more than double, so most of those will finish just under or about 3 feet tall. It's never a comfortable thing trimming this much tho. lol i mean look at em, they lost alot of branches :(.

but last time I did SOG with this strain (like 4 years ago? no journal available tho) I trimmed a few like this and a few not as heavily, and the ones i was aggressive with early on out performed the others. they were also a much denser bigger single colas. I wish i had pictures because i had one plant that had two branches that I trimmed heavily and each branch had huge colas (bigger girth than a beer bottle definetly, and barely fit in a gallon ziplock at an angle so maybe a foot long? i dunno ;) ), each branch was over an oz aswell. it's back when i was doing experiments with this strain (both phenos, i had 2 different phenos back then). also i think that pheno might have been more G13 Dom, this pheno is a little more northern lights dom.

ill admit tho, after the fact i thought i should of left a few more fan leaves. just cut off side branches not branches and leaves. next time ill leave half with all their fan leaves left but no branches see if it makes a difference (it probably will, at least with recovery time maybe)


this post got a little more winded than i anticipated lol


thanks for stopping by

Happy Pharming!
-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Dr.G13]

Looking good Mystre.Pharmer, your trimming is aggressive (but normal for promoting single cola growth). As I'm sure you know, you really need to commit to SOG. it's true that cutting 1/3 off the plant is the 'norm' But only that can lead to branching like you said. Alot of people claim 'SOG' grows but few actually are. it's common to refer to just a simple even canopy as a sea of green but its not. a true SOG IMO is the one main cola per plant, meaning the bottom nug is touching the top nug if that makes sense lol.

are you know expecting 1/2 oz per plant on these initial 16? with a week long veg Id expect ATLEAST double that even with this SOG style trimming. I agree it'll be fun to see how these plants grow with a longer veg and SOG style trimming. :) when you asked earlier in your thread what we think will happen, i agree with you... i think that they will just become bigger single colas with a longer veg and proper trimming, but only time will tell. trimming like you did is more reserved for plants with 6" spacing and zero veg, im looking forward to your results. I'd be curious if these 4 posts with only 16 plants but a longer veg out yield 4 posts with 36 plants and no veg.

-Doc