Secound Opinion Please! Organic Soil Grow! Help Please!

[Albatross]

No RO, a healthy organic mix will adjust the PH, runoff is not an accurate indicator especially with the pre loaded amendments. organic mixes can absorb and hold a lot of water, getting air to the root zone could be an issue if you have a heavily amended organic soil with excessive moisture sitting, it can become anaerobic killing off the biology that is "digesting" your preloaded amendments, without the biology firing those amendments will just sit in the soil. If you are using amendments that are milled very fine and soluble its a good idea to flush your mix before transplanting, soil sucks up and holds that initial moisture along with whats in it and it cannot be rinsed out as easily as coco or peat based mixes. A nutrient rich low O2 environment can lead to various issues quickly, weak growth, degrees of lockout, struggling plants, weak root systems, and multiple random issues rather than one clear issue much easier to trouble shoot. Using breathable containers may help, fabric pots tend to work well with Organic soil even if you have to go up a size to do it. For now dry out your mix, re-introduce the biology, feed only water or mild teas with focus on catalysts that assists in breaking down your amendments and biology rather than adding any more nutrients. Next run try fluffing your mix with red rock or perilite to increase the O2, reduce or eliminate the preloaded nutes, (remember organics already contain the major building blocks and are not 100% dependent on you adding nutrition, peat and coco are practically sterile) when you feed consider starting at 1/4 to 1/2 of what most manufacturers recommend, you can always increase it. slightly moist to almost dry between waterings. Remember you can easily over feed and over water organics, the mix holds more moisture longer especially if the mix contains a large percentage of material of larger grade than coco or peat, those can take weeks to dry out and much of that is based on how fast the plant is taking it up and transpiring, evaporation does not assist nearly as much as it would with greenhouse or outdoor. Organics are the pratice of managing an ecosystem, you are not feeding the plant, your organic soil is, all you need to do is provide the building blocks, be gentile.

 

[YaBuddy321]

RO has no alkalinity.

Right now, I'm just going to say what I see without moving beyond that for the time being. Right now I see that the pH is out of range of what the plants like. I feel 6.4 is too low for soil, bring it up to 6.8 and start allowing it to range more.
I see an advanced P-.
I see K-.
Finally, there is clearly an immobile element deficiency going on, right now I'm going to land on Fe due the your love for RO water and the low pH range. I would get something to use as a foliar application for dealing with that in the most efficient manner.

First thing to 'fix' is getting pH ranges up. Do a slurry test to get a more accurate reading. Then the other problems can be addressed once you get that leaf twisting to stop.

RO has no alkalinity.

Right now, I'm just going to say what I see without moving beyond that for the time being. Right now I see that the pH is out of range of what the plants like. I feel 6.4 is too low for soil, bring it up to 6.8 and start allowing it to range more.
I see an advanced P-.
I see K-.
Finally, there is clearly an immobile element deficiency going on, right now I'm going to land on Fe due the your love for RO water and the low pH range. I would get something to use as a foliar application for dealing with that in the most efficient manner.

First thing to 'fix' is getting pH ranges up. Do a slurry test to get a more accurate reading. Then the other problems can be addressed once you get that leaf twisting to stop.

Thank you! What would suggest for raising the PH? Water and soil thanks again

 

[YaBuddy321]

No RO, a healthy organic mix will adjust the PH, runoff is not an accurate indicator especially with the pre loaded amendments. organic mixes can absorb and hold a lot of water, getting air to the root zone could be an issue if you have a heavily amended organic soil with excessive moisture sitting, it can become anaerobic killing off the biology that is "digesting" your preloaded amendments, without the biology firing those amendments will just sit in the soil. If you are using amendments that are milled very fine and soluble its a good idea to flush your mix before transplanting, soil sucks up and holds that initial moisture along with whats in it and it cannot be rinsed out as easily as coco or peat based mixes. A nutrient rich low O2 environment can lead to various issues quickly, weak growth, degrees of lockout, struggling plants, weak root systems, and multiple random issues rather than one clear issue much easier to trouble shoot. Using breathable containers may help, fabric pots tend to work well with Organic soil even if you have to go up a size to do it. For now dry out your mix, re-introduce the biology, feed only water or mild teas with focus on catalysts that assists in breaking down your amendments and biology rather than adding any more nutrients. Next run try fluffing your mix with red rock or perilite to increase the O2, reduce or eliminate the preloaded nutes, (remember organics already contain the major building blocks and are not 100% dependent on you adding nutrition, peat and coco are practically sterile) when you feed consider starting at 1/4 to 1/2 of what most manufacturers recommend, you can always increase it. slightly moist to almost dry between waterings. Remember you can easily over feed and over water organics, the mix holds more moisture longer especially if the mix contains a large percentage of material of larger grade than coco or peat, those can take weeks to dry out and much of that is based on how fast the plant is taking it up and transpiring, evaporation does not assist nearly as much as it would with greenhouse or outdoor. Organics are the pratice of managing an ecosystem, you are not feeding the plant, your organic soil is, all you need to do is provide the building blocks, be gentile.

Thank you!

 

[Seamaiden]

Thank you! What would suggest for raising the PH? Water and soil thanks again

Super easy, depending on what you have on hand. You can use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), or better yet, something like oyster shell flour or dolomite lime. Basically, anything with the CO3 or HCO3 molecule attached is going to buffer pH up.

 

[YaBuddy321]

Thanks! I've

Super easy, depending on what you have on hand. You can use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), or better yet, something like oyster shell flour or dolomite lime. Basically, anything with the CO3 or HCO3 molecule attached is going to buffer pH up.

been use dolomite with no effect . I watered last night with a ph of 8.5 going in and 5.4 runoff. This so frustrating. This isn't my first run I've never had to deal with this it sucks.

 

[Seamaiden]

You have to use more (wow, that's some serious acid you've got goin' on there!). It *will* neutralize acidic conditions.

 

[YaBuddy321]

Thank you so much for your help. I have dolomite in there I think I'm going to grab some oyster shell flour. Should I just too dress with it?? Thanks again

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, you can, but be careful to incorporate it into the media/soil surface. Otherwise it'll crust up and be useless.

 

[true grit]

Ok so I'm gonna be a bit different than everyone here.

First RO is fine, but I still use an additive of some sort to bring ph to the 6.5-6.8 range. Don't worry about run off, just worry about input ph. When you start adding tap you begin adding in excess things to an already amended soil that is not up taking what it has. If you use tap use it sparingly for what you know is in there ppm wise.

It was recommended I stop using dolomite, forgot why specifically but lime can be unnecessary and there are better ways to buffer soil. once I dropped it soil continued to improve.

Do you know where you got soil if it's stored outside? I had no choice but to buy my normal soil from normal place but their dumb asses had it outside- well with more rain etc I had to return some and use what still seemed good out of necessity. Well needless to say I've been having to overly aerate and chase phantom deficiencies. It's taken a lot of extra shit that's usually not necessary to bring soil back. Lesson being- make sure you get soil from somewhere that at least stores it inside.

I think biggest thing is you started out with ph too low and they were over saturated which will fuck with ph too. They don't look horrible just like light growth and some deficiency.

 

[happy b]

Dont wanna be a buzzkill but wen u keep geting phantom deficencies regardless of wat u do and growth has all but stopped that sounds like you have some parasites in your root zone.i would take a slice of potatoe(its a huge root.root pests love it) and place it ontop of the moist soil then check it in morning.if u have root pests that will giv em away.
I hope u dont hav pests though.but it sounfs like u do.u shouldnt really need oyster shell wen useing dolomite thats another reason i think pests.

 

[Michal]

Agree with the others to stop checking run-off pH. It's just turning your head the wrong way. Not much of a soil scientist but my logic (a scary strange place for most) leads me to think if you're flushing with high pH water the runoff would naturally be acidic up to the point you overwhem soil CEC with calcium. (Conjecture)

Maiden's on point with the slurry test. Trying to fix issues you have yet to positively identify is usually a surefire way to clusterfuck everything.

If you've allowed the soil to overly dry and can't saturate with flushing, try either a wetting agent or a good 5 minute soak in tepid-warm water. A dry center rootball can mimic deficiency.

 

[lazyfarma420]

I also use the whole dr earth brand for my organic grow and found out that it is very slow release also the r/o water is overrated and u necessary when dealing with organics I've never Phd my water or check ppm that soil if done correctly will balance itself out I use regular spring water and I'm about 2 weeks into preflower I haven't expirenced anything you have from what I see by the pics try and use sum high n guano maybe seabird also make a tea so it gets to the root zone faster top dressing takes way longer to hit the bottom of the pot

 

[YaBuddy321]

Ok so I'm gonna be a bit different than everyone here.

First RO is fine, but I still use an additive of some sort to bring ph to the 6.5-6.8 range. Don't worry about run off, just worry about input ph. When you start adding tap you begin adding in excess things to an already amended soil that is not up taking what it has. If you use tap use it sparingly for what you know is in there ppm wise.

It was recommended I stop using dolomite, forgot why specifically but lime can be unnecessary and there are better ways to buffer soil. once I dropped it soil continued to improve.

Do you know where you got soil if it's stored outside? I had no choice but to buy my normal soil from normal place but their dumb asses had it outside- well with more rain etc I had to return some and use what still seemed good out of necessity. Well needless to say I've been having to overly aerate and chase phantom deficiencies. It's taken a lot of extra shit that's usually not necessary to bring soil back. Lesson being- make sure you get soil from somewhere that at least stores it inside.

I think biggest thing is you started out with ph too low and they were over saturated which will fuck with ph too. They don't look horrible just like light growth and some deficiency.

Thanks allot I'm still having the same issue the main issues is the plants won't drink water, but the soil around the roots dry up, but the roots stay moist for 2weeks and now there is no yellow leaves just canoeing on new growth.
Besides that this site has been super slow for me and takes 15 mins to log in. What's up with that? It's just this site so sorry to others for not replying took 30 mins to reply to this lol thanks guys

 

[Wisher619]

how can you tell that they are not drinking water.....how can you tell that the roots are moist but the soil is dry???I am actually confused

 

[YaBuddy321]

how can you tell that they are not drinking water.....how can you tell that the roots are moist but the soil is dry???I am actually confused

I have a water meter you push in the soil to tell the moisture. Around the root ball is dry where the roots haven't strechted to and if I probe in the rootball its wets. And I can feel it with my fingers

 

[YaBuddy321]

Dont wanna be a buzzkill but wen u keep geting phantom deficencies regardless of wat u do and growth has all but stopped that sounds like you have some parasites in your root zone.i would take a slice of potatoe(its a huge root.root pests love it) and place it ontop of the moist soil then check it in morning.if u have root pests that will giv em away.
I hope u dont hav pests though.but it sounfs like u do.u shouldnt really need oyster shell wen useing dolomite thats another reason i think pests.

Thanks! I used the potatoe and first I saw nothing but when I used a 100x scope I saw tiny clear looking bugs. Slow moving. I'm not sure if they are root aphids or what. I'm trying to look them up but can find a exact pic.

 

[sixstring]

Ok didn't notice your temp before but at 84 f to have those dampness problems across the board I'd say the soil is fucked . You might want to lower humidity a bit only cause of dampness issue .

Think it's just a bad batch of soil?

Def sounds like you could have bad soil....but.i would not trust that ph pen unless you are checking calibration once a week until your plants turn around.i use that same pen but just as a ref,not an absolute.if its way off check calibration before adjusting other shit.plus checking ph or ppm on ro water is tricky at best.add 100ppm calmag then check ph.ro water with a ppm below 10 will move all over the place on most meters with just a speck of dirt on the meter lol.84f is too hot for veg unless you have co2 at 1000ppm or higher and higher rh like 70 to 75%. T5 floros are perfectly fine for veg full term but 84f is just going to make problems.are these plants sitting on cold cement or tiles?if so get some foam under them,with those temps and rh they should be drying out in 2 days,3 max or your overwatering.my 5 gal veg drink almost a gallon a day.good luck and keep at it :)
Oh and listen to @Seamaiden :)

 

[YaBuddy321]

Ok I have another thread on this issue I will link to this. I checked for bugs in the begining and only found springtails. So I thought the problems where not bugs. Someone told me to place a cut potatoe on the soil so I did. I checked the potatoe a day later and saw these tiny clear bugs crawling on it with a 100x scope. You can not see the with the naked eye. They are slow moving and do not jump. I also watered and saw small white worm things come to the top of the soil. These pics are not mine. They are from the net of somebody's potatoe garden and she took pics but wasn't sure of what they where. They are the closes things I can find to what's in my garden. They are only in the soil as far as I can tell. Nothing on stems and leaves I can find. I'm thinking root aphids, but pics on google look different. I'm in organic soil so it could be a beneficial bug I'm just not sure but sure am frustrated. I had similar issues with my last grow and tossed them and cleaned everything with bleached and waited a couple months to start up. Could these things survive that? What a nightmare!! Also tested for tmv and it was negative. Any info would help. Thanks!
Ps if it's not the bugs I think it my be ph imbalance in organic balance please check this tread out also.

Other thread and symtoms:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/oganic-growing-issues-on-two-runs-please-help.74711/

 

[kolah]

Here is an option I've used in the past with a 100% success rate.

Gently pull your plant/s out of the 5 gallon bucket/s. Gently shake off all the dirt...get as much as you can off without beating up the delicate root structures. This is a excellent time to visually inspect your soil..with the naked eye and with a scope. It's also a good time to observe the root condition. Next, get a large bucket or tub of clean water...distilled or well water is best. Absolutely no tap water. Immerse the root ball into the tub of water and gently swish and swirl it around. Your goal is to completely strip all the soil from the roots. Do a little bit at a time then pull the roots up and out for a closer inspection. Keep swishing your roots underwater until they are spanking-ass clean. Part one done.

Part Two: get some Green Cleaner ...and yeah it's pricey but good shit. http://www.greenerhydroponics.com/Green-Cleaner-8-oz_p_81764.html

It's best to have the GC all mixed up ready to go as soon as you rinse off your root mass. Mix up the GC in a bucket ....big and deep enough to totally dunk your plants in it. Follow the directions precisely. GC is basically a soap and alcohol mix and great for killing a lot of bugs and stuff. Again follow the directions as your goal is to completely saturate every bit of the plant with the GC solution and keep it underwater for a good while. Part Two done.

Keep it simple from here on in. Get some good commercial soil (organic) like Advanced Sunshine Organic, Roots Organic, Humboldt, etc and re-pot your freshly treated plants. Give the plant/s a few days to settle in to their new home/s, do a repeat of GC (optional) and just watch-see how the plants respond. Use good clean water from the next two weeks or so... no nutes, no nothing. Do not over-water..in fact it's better to stay on the dry side IMO.

Basically you are starting over from scratch without all the guess work which often leads to more problems. You nicely cleaned (and flushed) the root mass and you gave the plant material one very nice bath (and massage). You can also do some serious scoping before and after treatments with a 100x scope (USB scopes are nice) When scoping always look in the nooks and crannies where some pests love to hide.... don't just scope the leaves as some pests (like russet, broad and cyclamen mites love to hide in the hard to see places.

Good luck.

 

[YaBuddy321]

Ok I have another thread on this issue I will link to this. I checked for bugs in the begining and only found springtails. So I thought the problems where not bugs. Someone told me to place a cut potatoe on the soil so I did. I checked the potatoe a day later and saw these tiny clear bugs crawling on it with a 100x scope. You can not see the with the naked eye. They are slow moving and do not jump. I also watered and saw small white worm things come to the top of the soil. These pics are not mine. They are from the net of somebody's potatoe garden and she took pics but wasn't sure of what they where. They are the closes things I can find to what's in my garden. They are only in the soil as far as I can tell. Nothing on stems and leaves I can find. I'm thinking root aphids, but pics on google look different. I'm in organic soil so it could be a beneficial bug I'm just not sure but sure am frustrated. I had similar issues with my last grow and tossed them and cleaned everything with bleached and waited a couple months to start up. Could these things survive that? What a nightmare!! Also tested for tmv and it was negative. Any info would help. Thanks!
Ps if it's not the bugs I think it my be ph imbalance in organic balance please check this tread out also.

Other thread and symtoms:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/oganic-growing-issues-on-two-runs-please-help.74711/

The more I look they look like
Hypoaspis miles a good mite? Man I don't know