Should I trim low laying branches?

[OldManRiver]

Sure fair enough.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0Xv4wPfIBEOsSPjeNi9Zz4

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAKegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1IwO3tCzpJwsJCUnVbIPay

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There are many more. I never included links cause the most basic of googling would have given you them all. You can't find a study that says pruning doesn't help.

Neither of the links work.

Look, friend. The essence of science is share information, discuss, come to true understanding. If you're going to get pissy about being confronted about sources, you're not in the science space. Saying, "google it" , is the domain of anti-vaxxors and other conspiracy theorists. I don't play there. It's not my job to research your claims that disavow commonly understood scientific principles. If you're going to claim something that contradicts well understood science, the burden is on you to support that. You are claiming that physics, chemistry, math, and logic are wrong. I await evidence.

 

[BigCube]

Neither of the links work.

Look, friend. The essence of science is share information, discuss, come to true understanding. If you're going to get pissy about being confronted about sources, you're not in the science space. Saying, "google it" , is the domain of anti-vaxxors and other conspiracy theorists. I don't play there. It's not my job to research your claims that disavow commonly understood scientific principles. If you're going to claim something that contradicts well understood science, the burden is on you to support that. You are claiming that physics, chemistry, math, and logic are wrong. I await evidence.

Pissy? Lol. Ok. Not sure where you got that from.

 

[BigCube]

So going back over 6 pages of this thread, I can't help but notice several links to scientific articles posted by multiple people that support exactly what I'm talking about. It's almost like you just ignored them entirely.

I have also posted links, and of the 3 I posted last 2 won't work, because posting links to Google search results are touch and go, that's why I posted like a week ago that you should Google it.

I've asked many times for any proof to the contrary. Despite that, none has ever surfaced. I dont think its too much to ask that someone take 5 minutes to research something before they call me wrong. All I ask is that they care if they are right or not. Not just argue and call me names and used "friend" in one of the most passive aggressive ways you can use it.

If anyone is being "pissy" or rude here. It's you. I've been calm, nice and respectful to people.

Asking for proof is your right, and it has been provided over and over in this thread. Now you can take the few minutes it would take you to research the topic and mank an argument based o the current science. Or you can keep being passive aggressive, and ignoring the evidence you been shown and told how to find on your own, and calling me names.

Up to you, I'd prefer we actually be friends. Not using the word as a slight to try and belittle the "other". But if you choose to stay on the path of hatred, ignorance and name calling... I won't respond. I save my time and energy for people who can actually be reached with reason and evidence.

 

[BigCube]

Oh and by the way. I've been saying exactly what the current s scientific consensus is. Pruning gives you better yields.

Like it or not, that is what the actual scientific research supports, you can't just claim it doesn't. You have to prove it.

Google "scientific study pruning"
And read away, find me a study that says anything other than what I've been saying. Unlike some people I actually research a topic before I discuss it.

So please i will ask one more time, can you please site any scientific peer reviewed published paper that says pruning doesn't increase yields?

This thread alone has 3 or 4 saying pruning increases yields, man kind has been increasing yields by pruning for hundreds of years. The scientific consensus agrees. If anyone is going against what the science says, it's the person who's saying they are all wrong.

I wonder, do you even read what other people type? It seems like you just make shit up, refuse to back it up with proof and refuse to acknowledge when you're wrong. You won't take the 5 minutes to research it on your own. And you'd rather try and bully me in to submission by making up insane shit I've never done or said.

Almost like everything you are accusing me of that I've not done, you are guilty of.

You've been given ample evidence, you've been shown how to find it on your own and you've been treated fairly and respectfully.

All I ask is the same in return. Please and thank you.

 

[Aqua Man]

@BigCube I think where some of us are disagreeing with you is that it appears you are saying more pruning is better. I can only speak for myself that I do not feel this is true at all.

Selective pruning is beneficial not more pruning. Much like a feeding nutrients more is not better.

I think it's the way you are blanket stating it.

I'm sure all of us agree branches laying in the dirt should be pruned. Leaves blocking bud sites should be pruned. A plant that is so compact that it get poor air flow should be pruned. Bud sites not getting light may be beneficial to prune but not always. Topping to beak dominance may be beneficial.

Beyond this you are likely harming yields and risking plant health that will invite pests and other nasties, stunting growth for no reason etc. You see if you take the same time period and use differing pruning methods you will see more is not better. If you are not taking time of growth into account you simply cannot claim you get more yields. If you don't while in the end you may get more yields you have also spend a longer time growing the plant out and this loss of time become more and more as you increase the amount of pruning. More is not better and if that is what you are implying I will say it again. I strongly disagree with your opinion.

Added: because of the difference in light and air flow etc growing outdoors I still feel pruning is not really necessary outdoors other than for the reasons I listed and probably with the exception of a few more like fungus or other infection.

 

[BigCube]

@BigCube I think where some of us are disagreeing with you is that it appears you are saying more pruning is better. I can only speak for myself that I do not feel this is true at all.

Selective pruning is beneficial not more pruning. Much like a feeding nutrients more is not better.

I think it's the way you are blanket stating it.

I'm sure all of us agree branches laying in the dirt should be pruned. Leaves blocking bud sites should be pruned. A plant that is so compact that it get poor air flow should be pruned. Bud sites not getting light may be beneficial to prune but not always. Topping to beak dominance may be beneficial.

Beyond this you are likely harming yields and risking plant health that will invite pests and other nasties, stunting growth for no reason etc. You see if you take the same time period and use differing pruning methods you will see more is not better. If you are not taking time of growth into account you simply cannot claim you get more yields. If you don't while in the end you may get more yields you have also spend a longer time growing the plant out and this loss of time become more and more as you increase the amount of pruning. More is not better and if that is what you are implying I will say it again. I strongly disagree with your opinion.

I can understand how you would take issue with that. Unfortunately that is something I have never said, hinted at or implied. If you would kindly show me what I said that gave you that impression I would be more than happy to correct it or reword it as to not give that impression.

Reading back at what I've typed, I dont see how you could have got that idea.
I will state now for the record, more pruning doesn't necessarily equate to more yield.

BUT, pruning the right parts does equate to more yields that's what I've been saying the entire time, from the very first post.

Thanks for being friendly we can have healthy debate without all the childish name calling and accusations.

 

[Aqua Man]

I can understand how you would take issue with that. Unfortunately that is something I have never said, hinted at or implied. If you would kindly show me what I said that gave you that impression I would be more than happy to correct it or reword it as to not give that impression.

Reading back at what I've typed, I dont see how you could have got that idea.
I will state now for the record, more pruning doesn't necessarily equate to more yield.

BUT, pruning the right parts does equate to more yields that's what I've been saying the entire time, from the very first post.

Thanks for being friendly we can have healthy debate without all the childish name calling and accusations.

It's first thing in the morning and I haven't look at FB to get my daily dose of stupidity in order to get my BP up some I'm still civil lol.

I get what your saying but again I have to stress the time thing. The more pruning the more stunting. Take someone who is topping and mainlining for example. Take 2 clones and veg for the exact same amount of time. 1 mainlined with sevel toppings and 1 with no pruning. Veg for 4 weeks and flip. My money on yield is the one with no pruning.

I'm referring to outdoor since that what the OP was. Again I feel it's much more beneficial for indoor and not so much outdoor since they have different variables

Added: add in genetics and the stress and some strains are more likely to herm also.

I guess it was just my interpretation of what you were saying maybe I read you wrong. I'm to lazy to go back and read tbh

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok I re read it. Go back to my first post where you said the science disputes what I posted. I think it's quite contrary and that the science supports what I'm saying when you put it all together as a whole not just selective application.


You also stated indoor and outdoor application are they same. They are not

 

[MooseFarts]

So I have been following along on this thread and its got some really interesting topics and arguments; for both not pruning and pruning. I am an outdoor grower myself and love to fuck with my plants as its almost therapeutic in a sense. Spending hours with a doobie in the mouth fucking around with pruning this and tying down that.

One thing I have noticed in my times growing is that pruning is good to an extent. As was mentioned, there are pros to pruning outdoors. This could be to split the apical dominance and end up with a plant with more colas. For me, this does not explicitly mean a higher yield in itself. I top because of (as mentioned) issues with bud rot, WPM, etc. In October, its better for me to have more colas rather than one giant donkey dick on top of the plant. A king bud is SO pretty to look at, but where I live I usually have to either cut the king bud early or not even get to keep it due to mold issues. So to that regard, I top to prevent issues.

Another factor is light. When I top many times, I am able to start tying down branches and opening the plant up much much more so than is able to be done with an untopped plant. This creates the bush shape, and I am able to keep a wide flat canopy and give even more light to lower branches and bud sites. Sure you can get light from the sun in all directions so you dont NEED to open up an outdoor plant as much, but try convincing me that more light on the inner branches isn't needed or that it doesn't help in any way and I will probably tell you you're stupid.

I guess I can't go on about whats so good about pruning because there are cons. And as was mentioned, the main one for me is time. I start my plants indoors and then move them outdoors. Because of this I actually try and get most of my topping done indoors and once my plants are moved outdoors I tend to only use LST (typing down), super cropping, or even some pinching of the growth tips (topping but at the very very tip of the branch). I have found that a really deep top (cutting off the top few nodes or more) really affects the plant when its baking in the sun and really takes a week or so to notice some vigorous growth, where as just pinching the tip off barely affects a plant at all.

Also, another thing to mention is during the first weeks of growth when I am topping the plant I also strip off any growth tips I do not want to control the overall shape of the base of the plant. However even when I remove growth tips/branches, I leave their fan leaf. That leaf still has stored nutrients in it and the plant will utilize them once it needs them. It will eventually get blocked out by upper growth, yellow and die off. That is mainly the only time I will start pulling leaves off, when the nutrients in it are depleted and the plant tells you its ready to go.

BUT to each their own, whatever you comfort level is. Thats just my two cents/ what I do to my plants. I think its doing me well since I can grow nice plants which yield a few pounds +/- a bit.

 

[Aqua Man]

So I have been following along on this thread and its got some really interesting topics and arguments; for both not pruning and pruning. I am an outdoor grower myself and love to fuck with my plants as its almost therapeutic in a sense. Spending hours with a doobie in the mouth fucking around with pruning this and tying down that.

One thing I have noticed in my times growing is that pruning is good to an extent. As was mentioned, there are pros to pruning outdoors. This could be to split the apical dominance and end up with a plant with more colas. For me, this does not explicitly mean a higher yield in itself. I top because of (as mentioned) issues with bud rot, WPM, etc. In October, its better for me to have more colas rather than one giant donkey dick on top of the plant. A king bud is SO pretty to look at, but where I live I usually have to either cut the king bud early or not even get to keep it due to mold issues. So to that regard, I top to prevent issues.

Another factor is light. When I top many times, I am able to start tying down branches and opening the plant up much much more so than is able to be done with an untopped plant. This creates the bush shape, and I am able to keep a wide flat canopy and give even more light to lower branches and bud sites. Sure you can get light from the sun in all directions so you dont NEED to open up an outdoor plant as much, but try convincing me that more light on the inner branches isn't needed or that it doesn't help in any way and I will probably tell you you're stupid.

I guess I can't go on about whats so good about pruning because there are cons. And as was mentioned, the main one for me is time. I start my plants indoors and then move them outdoors. Because of this I actually try and get most of my topping done indoors and once my plants are moved outdoors I tend to only use LST (typing down), super cropping, or even some pinching of the growth tips (topping but at the very very tip of the branch). I have found that a really deep top (cutting off the top few nodes or more) really affects the plant when its baking in the sun and really takes a week or so to notice some vigorous growth, where as just pinching the tip off barely affects a plant at all.

Also, another thing to mention is during the first weeks of growth when I am topping the plant I also strip off any growth tips I do not want to control the overall shape of the base of the plant. However even when I remove growth tips/branches, I leave their fan leaf. That leaf still has stored nutrients in it and the plant will utilize them once it needs them. It will eventually get blocked out by upper growth, yellow and die off. That is mainly the only time I will start pulling leaves off, when the nutrients in it are depleted and the plant tells you its ready to go.

BUT to each their own, whatever you comfort level is. Thats just my two cents/ what I do to my plants. I think its doing me well since I can grow nice plants which yield a few pounds +/- a bit.

I agree with you and also I feel there is not a single answer to the question. It's all dependant on needs, wants and variables.

 

[BigCube]

I agree, I think we are all talking about the same thing.

 

[MooseFarts]

I agree with you and also I feel there is not a single answer to the question. It's all dependant on needs, wants and variables.

I agree, I think we are all talking about the same thing.

Yeah i think so as well.

Seems to be some head butting going on in this thread, but glad we're on the same page

 

[Jimster]

I think we all agree on trimming or pruning. Although the heavy defoliation or mutilation is a different matter... not to throw fuel on the fire. I just finished the fun filled job of chopping things down and had plenty to consider. The very lowest branches had so little actual growth that I don't seriously feel that leaving them would contribute to anything that is verifiable. I totally agree that getting more light into the plants interior and bud sites increases yield and size, but as far as the lowest branches making too much of a difference in the final yield, I don't think they contribute or take away much. Since almost all growers that prune heavily/remove low branches also remove the leaves that shadow the bud sites, I think the blanket statement that heavy pruning alone increases the yield is somewhat unreliable.
Just my opinion... it's all a matter of degree.

 

[Aqua Man]

I think we all agree on trimming or pruning. Although the heavy defoliation or mutilation is a different matter... not to throw fuel on the fire. I just finished the fun filled job of chopping things down and had plenty to consider. The very lowest branches had so little actual growth that I don't seriously feel that leaving them would contribute to anything that is verifiable. I totally agree that getting more light into the plants interior and bud sites increases yield and size, but as far as the lowest branches making too much of a difference in the final yield, I don't think they contribute or take away much. Since almost all growers that prune heavily/remove low branches also remove the leaves that shadow the bud sites, I think the blanket statement that heavy pruning alone increases the yield is somewhat unreliable.
Just my opinion... it's all a matter of degree.

Yeah I'm going to try doing 2 harvests and see how the bottom buds develop. If I only needs 1-2 more weeks to decently increase my harvest great. If not clip clip clip. If course I am indoor so it's not as easy to get those bottom buds light

 

[Jimster]

Yeah I'm going to try doing 2 harvests and see how the bottom buds develop. If I only needs 1-2 more weeks to decently increase my harvest great. If not clip clip clip.

I left some of the less developed stuff on to see if it grows any more, although in my experience, when they are done, they don't grow much more. I hope I'm wrong, but time will tell. It's not so much an experiment as being too lazy to deal with larfy buds while there are bigger fish to fry!

 

[Edinburgh]

Pruneing is like shaving once you start you get more and more growth if done correctly, it improves airflow and helps prevent mold, it looks to me like you were growing indoors, out of doors I still prune but not nearley quite as much usually if the plant is so thick you improve airflow or to get rid of dead leaves .

 

[BCrocker]

Outside, let her grow

 

[BigCube]

I think we all agree on trimming or pruning. Although the heavy defoliation or mutilation is a different matter... not to throw fuel on the fire. I just finished the fun filled job of chopping things down and had plenty to consider. The very lowest branches had so little actual growth that I don't seriously feel that leaving them would contribute to anything that is verifiable. I totally agree that getting more light into the plants interior and bud sites increases yield and size, but as far as the lowest branches making too much of a difference in the final yield, I don't think they contribute or take away much. Since almost all growers that prune heavily/remove low branches also remove the leaves that shadow the bud sites, I think the blanket statement that heavy pruning alone increases the yield is somewhat unreliable.
Just my opinion... it's all a matter of degree.

I agree. Nowhere have I ever even hinted at heavy pruning or defoliating. It's very frustrating to see the argument boiled down to something I never said. My words are there unedited. Should be easy to see I've said nothing like that.

Glad we all agree. I was starting to lose faith in humanity for the 1000th time in my life lol.

 

[grassmania22]

I’ve got lots of low laying branches on my 3 foot tall bushy plants. Should I keep them till they start to flower?

Yes, if they don't get enough light. It's pointless keeping them

 

[SpotA]

Of course, man!