Silicic Acid

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nightmarecreature

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That's what an app is... you punch the relevant numbers into a formula that you don't have to deal with each time.

If you need an App to mulitply and divide, you have some serious problems.
 
ken dog

ken dog

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If you need an App to mulitply and divide, you have some serious problems.

It can actually be quite useful...
Say you want to know the length of a common rafter, and the hips and jacks as well... All a good app will require from you, is to give the pitch and the span and the height above plate.... It will spit out the length of the common, the hip, all your jacks, and the length and height of your ridge... And many other things as well...in case you needed a flying hip, or stuff like that.

I actually programed a personal pocket computer myself, before they came out with Construction Masters.
.


Sure, doing the math is easy, it's just time consuming... And tedious... And subject to errors.
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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It can actually be quite useful...
Say you want to know the length of a common rafter, and the hips and jacks as well... All a good app will require from you, is to give the pitch and the span and the height above plate.... It will spit out the length of the common, the hip, all your jacks, and the length and height of your ridge... And many other things as well...in case you needed a flying hip, or stuff like that.

I actually programed a personal pocket computer myself, before they came out with Construction Masters.
.


Sure, doing the math is easy, it's just time consuming... And tedious... And subject to errors.

Well said!
 
DemonTrich

DemonTrich

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Convertpad is the app I use just about every day. From a 25% feed, 75% feed rates, and tons of other useful conversion factors it can do for me.

Sometimes when I'm medicated I don't wanna have to do the math in my head. And btw, I was a math nerd, trig, algebra 2, geometry was my shit back in the day.
 
Kygiacomo

Kygiacomo

337
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Convertpad is the app I use just about every day. From a 25% feed, 75% feed rates, and tons of other useful conversion factors it can do for me.

Sometimes when I'm medicated I don't wanna have to do the math in my head. And btw, I was a math nerd, trig, algebra 2, geometry was my shit back in the day.
math was my worse and i hated all 3 of those math class's. i passed each one with a D- lol only thing i can count good now is grams,Oz and $$$ :(
 
CertifieDank

CertifieDank

26
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Silicic acid is very reactive, so in order to have a bottled product with relatively concentrated silicic acid you have to stabilize it. That is you have to make it less reactive. If I remember correctly Fasillito and Silliforce use PEG formulations to stabilize it and Yara ActiSil uses Choline Chloride to stabilize it.

How do you suppose they derive this silicic acid?

It says on the label "Derived from: potassium silicate, boric acid and sodium molybdate".

So they take potassium silicate, dilute it in water to hydrolyze the silicate into silicic acid, then because silicic acid is not stable in solution they have to stabilize it so their product that is mostly water has a useful shelf life.

Doesn't it make more sense to have a supply of potassium silicate, so that you can make your own dilute silicic acid solution on an 'as needed' basis. Thus circumventing the need for fancy stabilized silicic acid in a bottle products?

just thinking out loud.

Quantrill, your chemistry/biology/biochemistry knowledge is amongst the top 1% at a university level. On these boards, and not to offend anyone as I will include myself in the category that you're not in, your knowledge is probably somewhere in the 0.001% percentile. I always enjoy reading anything you post, every single post has significance and almost all of the time science of some sort to back it up, but please keep in mind not everyone is on the same level as you with the science background. That is not to say don't make these posts, please do, you are enlightening a lot of folks who care about this kind of useful info.

To my knowledge, the main reason Facilitor costs so much is due to the fact that they formulate it such that the silicic acid is packed into a polymer form & when added to water the polymer chain breaks into usable monomer form. The chemistry I will not get into, its beyond the scope of knowledge needed to effectively use the product, but IMO the average gardner will not easily be able to 'make their own dilute silicic acid to use on an as needed basis'. It can be done sure, so can any other product out on the market, but if I personally was to go about and 'make my own' of each product I use, let me tell you my time spent doing that would consume more than a quarter of the time spent gardening, and that's not an exaggeration. Every time I 'make' my own batch of triacontanol by 1) buying a microscale to measure minuscule amounts 2) calculating and mixing correct amounts of triacontanol, a surfactant such as polysorbate 20, a chelating agent such as fulpower, h20 3) microwaving in a separate microwave other than the one used for my everyday food warming, for obvious reasons 4) waiting till my liquid turns into a more paste, mixing with another calculated amount of H20... and maybe some other steps I'm missing, but point being it takes time, and yes it does save money, but I cannot do this for every single ingredient I use. I personally, and please read that again for anyone reading, I, do not mind chipping out an extra 100$ for a bottle of a certain product, and yes maybe i might do this for 5 products, and that might add up to 500$, but at the end of the day, I saved myself lots of time, work, and unnecessary second guessing if and when something goes wrong, I don't want to have yet another variable to consider (did I mix shit correctly, did I do this correctly, that correctly, all in reference to the DIY made solution of something). Excuse the run on sentences and horrible grammar.

Again guys this is just me, and yes I do mix some of my shit, but not nearly all. Plus there is a lot of shit in 99% of these bottles that might not be listed for whatever reason, could be regulations in different states, could be its their secret recipe lol. Whatever it may be, I am shooting a number off the top of my head here, but 98% of bottles targeted for this industry do not list every ingredient used not even close, most will list NPK. This means it will take a lot of research and knowledge to be able to even figure out whats in a god damn bottle to even start thinking about making your own. A lot of people are already investing in a lot of different things just to make their girls shine, they do not want to invest in all the proper equipment and most of the time large quantities of ingredients in order to save a buck or even a couple thousand down the line... by down the line were talking in a year. Everyone has their reason, but please guys keep all this in mind and lets not bash on one another for the choices we make. Again I am not trying to offend anyone and thank you again Quantrill for always making me wiser after I read one of your posts, sincerely appreciated.
 
POWER.SI

POWER.SI

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Aptus does seem to be the only company selling this retail in the US. agro-solutions has the same thing as facilitor, execpt it has a little copper and zinc added. They have a California office, but they only deal with commercial ag. Wouldnt even give me a distributors name. lol. Here is a good article about the benefits of silica I found on agro solultions website. This seems to be common knowledge in commercial ag. Anybody else try to find another source?
I will send you some samples of our monosilicic acid. Get at me
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
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I will send you some samples of our monosilicic acid. Get at me
Hey bud, Im also very curious about the science of your product(s). Im not looking for handouts, though samples are good brand building for sure.

What is best practice with your product in terms of how quick it needs to be used? For example, would it be stable in a straight water storage barrel for a couple weeks before use to condition water?
Is it stable in an irrigation barrel with light nutes that feeds for about a week, aerated?

Does it need to be watered in directly for best effect? I believe Ive read its more bio available, but less stable, and therefore more costly? Not trying to reverse engineer your product here. Quality supplements pay for themselves, and Im merely a curious gardener wanting to know best practice to use PowerSI, etc.

Thanks @POWER.SI
 
POWER.SI

POWER.SI

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Hey bud, Im also very curious about the science of your product(s). Im not looking for handouts, though samples are good brand building for sure.

What is best practice with your product in terms of how quick it needs to be used? For example, would it be stable in a straight water storage barrel for a couple weeks before use to condition water?
Is it stable in an irrigation barrel with light nutes that feeds for about a week, aerated?

Does it need to be watered in directly for best effect? I believe Ive read its more bio available, but less stable, and therefore more costly? Not trying to reverse engineer your product here. Quality supplements pay for themselves, and Im merely a curious gardener wanting to know best practice to use PowerSI, etc.

Thanks @POWER.SI
The product is tank stable with other nutes for 7-10 days. It is more bioavailable because I have the best and cleanest source of silicic acid. Please message me private and we will discuss further and Id be happy to send you a bottle to try
 
oscar169

oscar169

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This is what we have started to run way cheaper!! and results seem same as the $1100.00 gallons of Aptus Regulator I import from the NL
Agsil16H
Make your own nutrient bottle! Here is a recipe to make a liquid version of a Silica Nutrient.

Just follow the mixing recipe below.

Agsil16Hrecipe_medium.png


If you don't have a scale: Use 3 Tablespoons of Agsil16H for every 8 ounces water.

Following the above recipe to make 1 Liter of 7.8% Liquid Solution you would mix 148 Grams of Agsil16H into 1 Liter of water. Then you can store it in a bottle or jar and shake well before using. I use an old bottle of ProTekt to mix and store mine. (1 Liter of water is about 34 Ounces)

Here is a photo what 148 Grams of Agsil16H looks like. I weighed this out and then put into this container so you can hopefully do this without a scale at your house.

Agsilincup_medium.JPG


Agsilincupclose_medium.JPG


Use the 7.8% Liquid Solution you just made at 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. Yes, it's safe to use on every single watering, but we don't do that because we don't feel it's required with ANY ingredient. Some people use Aloe and Silica with every watering and we have seen stunning results.

Use 1/2 teaspoon of the 7.8% solution per gallon to foliar spray.

(I've used 2-3 Teaspoons per gallon without ill effects, but encourage you to start slow and see what you think)

http://buildasoil.com/products/agsil16h-potassium-silicate

Also you can purchase AgSil 16H here
https://customhydronutrients.com/po...8.html?zenid=f19ea69ee12b2431c4d9bf0df5ed3687
 
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legaleyes13

legaleyes13

347
43
This is what we have started to run way cheaper!! and results seem same as the $1100.00 gallons of Aptus Regulator I import from the NL
Agsil16H
Make your own nutrient bottle! Here is a recipe to make a liquid version of a Silica Nutrient.

Just follow the mixing recipe below.

Agsil16Hrecipe_medium.png


If you don't have a scale: Use 3 Tablespoons of Agsil16H for every 8 ounces water.

Following the above recipe to make 1 Liter of 7.8% Liquid Solution you would mix 148 Grams of Agsil16H into 1 Liter of water. Then you can store it in a bottle or jar and shake well before using. I use an old bottle of ProTekt to mix and store mine. (1 Liter of water is about 34 Ounces)

Here is a photo what 148 Grams of Agsil16H looks like. I weighed this out and then put into this container so you can hopefully do this without a scale at your house.

Agsilincup_medium.JPG


Agsilincupclose_medium.JPG


Use the 7.8% Liquid Solution you just made at 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. Yes, it's safe to use on every single watering, but we don't do that because we don't feel it's required with ANY ingredient. Some people use Aloe and Silica with every watering and we have seen stunning results.

Use 1/2 teaspoon of the 7.8% solution per gallon to foliar spray.

(I've used 2-3 Teaspoons per gallon without ill effects, but encourage you to start slow and see what you think)

http://buildasoil.com/products/agsil16h-potassium-silicate
Does it have a shelf life, and how long until it falls out?
 
oscar169

oscar169

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Does it have a shelf life, and how long until it falls out?
I mix a full gallon at a time and use it with a few months but I don't know how long self life is should be good for year if it's in airtight jug, if your worried just use the smaller batch size. about the falling out I shake the bottle far about a minute to mix and then pour out and add to rez before adding anything else never had any falling out.
 
M

mesquite

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I believe ag sil and the rest do fall out rather rapidly at acidic pH. It may not be immediately apparent to the naked eye, bit those little bastards are coagulating, precipating, and colluding to be plant unavailable. I'll hafta check it again, but i think the first biologically available silica was patented in 2005. There have since been three more filed. The type of chemistry that retards the polymerization is called "colloidal chemistry" and someone said it earlier that boron in adition to PEG400 are used in one version. There are a few others.

With the stripping of the earths ability to maintain healthy souls, our (human) food is short on this mineral that is made biologically available via microbial action. There are papers (citations needed, its late) that detail relevant improvements in human health. These benefits extend into agricultural products (all farmed animals).

Facilatator's results have been documented rather extensively. Im sure the OSA 28 is similar in effect. I had also sent for a sample and was dissapointed not to receive it, so i cannot atest to it's efficacy. Though i will note the company must either have been delluged in requests or simply was experiencing "growing pains".

Montana Grow is a company marketing a supposedly organic mined silicic acid that is the result of volcanic activity. Their site does not mention foliar sprays, however seems to recomend too dressing; a side by side offered no significant results.

Has anyone trien Montana grow? How did you apply it and at what rate did you use it to achieve results?
 
H

Hashbrick

4
3
Agsil16H says it is a Potassium Silicate product. Doesn't this mean that it's the same thing as Pro-Tekt and other potassium silicate products?

When you combine Potassium Silicate with water, AFAIK it turns into Monosilicic Acid as long as the PH is between 4 and 8 and there is nothing present for it to bind to.

Could you just buy Agsil16H or Pro-Tekt or any other Potassium Silicate product, and dilute it such that it will turn into silicic acid in the bottle?

Would this hold up for any length of time without something to stabilize it?

I am leaning towards biting the bullet and buying OSA-28 or another silicic acid product so it is pre-stabilized and it's not a worry, but I heard about another product called ZumSil from VG Agriculture and it seems to be cheaper (300-600 a gal I think) so I'm waiting to hear back from them to check that out.

Is Montana Grow a powdered Potassium Silicate like Agsil16H or are they claiming it's something different because of the volcanic rock?

Also, does silicic acid still interact with nutrients in your tank? All the silicic acid products still say to add it first and mix it into the water before adding other nutrients.

I'm attaching a chart someone else uploaded into an older thread about silicic acid for reference. This chart shows Agsil16H has a ton of plant available Si, however, I'm wondering if this testing method is really a valid way to know how much is available, as the Potassium Silicate products should perform better than in real world situations with a bunch of different nutrients and PHs, at least from my reading of the tests.
 
Plant available silicon fertilizer soluble silicon chart
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oscar169

oscar169

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Agsil16H says it is a Potassium Silicate product. Doesn't this mean that it's the same thing as Pro-Tekt and other potassium silicate products?

When you combine Potassium Silicate with water, AFAIK it turns into Monosilicic Acid as long as the PH is between 4 and 8 and there is nothing present for it to bind to.

Could you just buy Agsil16H or Pro-Tekt or any other Potassium Silicate product, and dilute it such that it will turn into silicic acid in the bottle?

Would this hold up for any length of time without something to stabilize it?

I am leaning towards biting the bullet and buying OSA-28 or another silicic acid product so it is pre-stabilized and it's not a worry, but I heard about another product called ZumSil from VG Agriculture and it seems to be cheaper (300-600 a gal I think) so I'm waiting to hear back from them to check that out.

Is Montana Grow a powdered Potassium Silicate like Agsil16H or are they claiming it's something different because of the volcanic rock?

Also, does silicic acid still interact with nutrients in your tank? All the silicic acid products still say to add it first and mix it into the water before adding other nutrients.

I'm attaching a chart someone else uploaded into an older thread about silicic acid for reference. This chart shows Agsil16H has a ton of plant available Si, however, I'm wondering if this testing method is really a valid way to know how much is available, as the Potassium Silicate products should perform better than in real world situations with a bunch of different nutrients and PHs, at least from my reading of the tests.
I use RO water that is @ 1-2 ppm so its pretty clean not much in there, Then I add the Agsil 16 H at 2.5 mL to gallon, I then let that mix for about 5 mins or so the Rez has a mixing pump in it. Then I add all my nutes to rez and depending on how many Ml to gallon of the Agsil 16 H I added at the 1st step the ph will be somewhere around 6.2-6.3 perfect for my Promix Plants, and If using in my coco plants I use a little PH down and bring to 5.9.

With all that said when I use the Aptus Regulator or Fasilitor the over priced orange bottles sold in the USA witch is the same as Regulator just 25x more mark up in price, You will see a little cloud when you 1st pour that into the REZ where as with the Agsil there is no cloud when 1st poured in, But I have noticed that the Aputs doesn't raise the PH no where near like the Agsil does.

When I use the Agsil I may even have to use PH down a little but with the Aptus I need a ton of PH up to get it to 6.2-6.3.
Now with all that said I can tell you this, I have been using the Aptus Regulator and Agsil 16h and doing different side by sides for about 6 months now, And yes I use to buy $1100.00 bottles of Regulator several times a year and have it shipped to the USA and I can tell ya that shit is done for me. I bought a 50LB bag of the Agsil 16h and used some New Fancy 1 gallon jugs to store it in and The plants on the Agsil have huge stalk and the branches are way stronger then the Aptus plants. Now this is just my experience with the to products and others may have a different experience.

I did buy a sample bottle of the OSA28 I used very little of the product, it now just sets on the self collecting dust.
Hope this info helps ya out I know that I wish I would have made the switch years ago, Also check out some of the threads on mixing your own nutes like Jacks.
Silica
 
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