Some sick shit going on in MI

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2

2DogWalker

Sorry brother, but I see what your saying, just that you're a part of the very propaganda scheme that we should be rebuffing.

To start, things are indeed very bad... all over. But the reasons for this have been in place & planned for a number of decades... and have very little to do with collective bargaining... nor taxing the poor or middle classes.

Regardless, the point of concern is that an appointed State figure can dissolve a city's government & call all debts/contracts off... even business contracts & deals with corporations... even the local landscaping company that has been under contract with the city... even the past due invoices, per se. That's hubris in the light of what our country should be like.

I see the rhetoric & propaganda campaign as the fear the government uses to strip us of the last of our recognizable rights... in the name of terrorism, in the name of natural disaster, in the name of economic peril, in the name of drug cartels, in the name of collective bargaining, in the name of social services, in the name of communism, in the name of ...

Yes things are bad, but of whose real doing? It is those that are fear mongering... and taking... and taking... and taking... and taking.... Wanna find the ones that should be held accountable... follow the money & the amassed wealth & the power. Good luck finding it with the masses of people... or their unions.

We should move away from the rhetoric & propaganda... and we should be asking some really tough questions... and demanding accountability, not withering away our abilities to do so, no???

Just my take. Peace y'all
I agree that this are problems that are fundamental and have been written and adapted into the American Life, through mental manipluation and brainwashing of the poor!

But BOCO, say said michigan city owes me and 5 of my friends all who are on the city chamber of commerce (how we got the city contracts), because we were friends with the people running the city. NOW, said asshole comes in and tells me and my colleagues that he no longer owes us (the people who make/families MADE) this town that our payment will no longer be forthcoming. This is ignorance in the first degree, who would even think that this would be acceptable? How could it work, it will put the whole State out of business immediately as with the proposed cuts ALOT of city's will be in this position within 12 months.....

Jason King Wrote a book called collapse, it is a peek into History and a look into exactly why other "civilizations on earth" have collapsed....Very often times the top become too financially heavy and the bottom comes backs and GET THEIRS!

Totally worth the read - Collapse by Jason King.

But we also cant keep blaming some man in the shadows pulling the strings. even if there is one people get old and they die. ideologies change over time, just like weed being outlowed all over now its becoming more and more acceptable. The man really isnt one guy, its just a thought in your head.

were do we really go from here? keep jacking taxes on theses big business they will flee to over seas. then the only thing that we will be left with is companies that can take the tax increases. guess what ones those are...? yep big pharma, they will never leave medicaid will keep them going for ever. yep its government funded by us. tobacco companies, liquor, service, health and insurance. every other company will fold but theses cuz they will force us to incur the costs. cigarettes can be $50 a pack and they will still sell man. you are forced to have insurance on everything of value even your health and your life soon. and even if the company goes bankrupt , we will bail them out(AIG). i say fuck that let them fail. we bailed out all those banks man. you think my mortgage should be all good right now or my credit card debt. nope they raised the interest on my credit card.

It dont matter what side you are on as long as you know whats going on. shit your way may work better then mine. but to watch some video and thats all you know and have outrage is just ridiculous. obama spent more in his 1st 4 months in office then Bush did his entire 8 years and no one cares. dose someone think 14 trillion exists?
I hope we let all the big companies fail, last time I looked they just make my friends go out of business and claim bankruptcy when the numbers don't work out (small to med size businesses all ACROSS the country, and its not due to Unions) its due the ever increasing wealth gap, and the fundamental rights average americans are giving up everyday!

IMVHO, the only place we can go is into social regression, we must start producing our own goods LOCALLY (quit using so much Middle Eastern Oil to transport stuff made across the country when we could pay AMERICAN workers to build these products in another location) But the oil industry has such a big lobby than somehow this just doesn't make fiscal sense. WELL F**k fiscal sense cuz our world is going to fall apart with ignorance like this at the helm (ie....THE GULF OF MEXICO - Where did the news coverage of the trillion gallons of oil in our ocean go). Americans need to get off of the bagged food diet and starting eating food not in cardboard boxes, get out to their local farms and or grow your own food. I'm going to produce my share today (worlds greatest natural sweet - Maple Syrup) I do not think our Government will save us from the mess that we are in, and it will be a grassroots movement that changes this country....For the better or worse...

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, whether agreed or not, as it feels terrific to be able to stretch your mind a little in an intelligent debate!

2Dog
 
3

3Cz

Guest
Actually, this fleecing of America and Americans has been going on for a LOT longer than many realize. I remember when I was a youngster playing with my toys and on the bottom of them was always printed where they were made. Does anyone, anyone at all remember that back in the 60's ? It said "made in taiwan, china, korea or japan. Our current financial fiasco we are in began that long ago. Why, that's when unions were strong and america was thriving and nobody paid attention to what was happening.
Now fast forward back to today and think about how long it took to get where we are at and how long it will truly take to return to the greatness we as Americans were accustomed too ? Anyone under the age of 20 didn't see the better days and if we don't get big business going again, the unions have chased the work away. That's capitalism as it's finest.
The cost of oil today we owe to Mr. Ronald Reagan by allowing speculators on the market. It's really our own people screwing us now and it was when the recession hit. It isn't the fault of other countries who are getting our jobs, it's business making more money by doing it. Big business taken out of the States should be taxed 5 fold for taking work away from us. On the same side of the coin, their isn't a person alive in a union that's worth $50-$75 per hr for sweeping floors and only shows up for work 4 days a week and still can hold a job...thank you unions. You have fleeced us through and through by looking only at today and not the future.

Regards,
3Cz
 
plantevil

plantevil

this is just all about greed. the reason no one has a job here is because of these big cats send jobs and buy all their product overseas and replacing people with machines so they can make more money.the last thing these people want to do is create more jobs. what they want is to make the most money with paying the least amount back to the employees. the gap between rich and poor is spreading at this rate soon enough people will either be really poor or very wealthy. there are millions of hard working people who work full time who still depend on help from the government to make ends meet because of the economy. what needs to happen is the federal government needs to outlaw buying overseas so then we can create more jobs by making these items in america but that would cut their profits by ten fold because they got people in 3rd world countries working for pennies.if things keep going the way they are and the economy keeps getting worse pretty soon americans will be working for the minimalist of wages because theyre desparate. these billionaires and people in the government are working together and have to much power. i have faith though because the american people will not put up with this much longer and the constitution was built to change or overthrow the government in case the people lose the power. amen
 
xX Kid Twist Xx

xX Kid Twist Xx

Premium Member
Supporter
we need to creat 200,000 thousand new jobs a year minimum. a good way to do this is to force retirement. soem of these people in the unions are freaking 70 years old still working. the post office is filled with people 80 years old still plugging away. and guess what they are working plus collecting social security and getting all types of tax breaks and credits. If you set the age of retirement at 67 that will open up countless jobs for the new generation. and these companies could start these guys with fresh salaries and wages. not have a 70 year old doing half the work and stuck in the old ways make 4x's the amount of someone younger and better.

every time we put restrictions on big companies it requires them to under take a cost which they in turn pass on to the consumer. but then we have to create soem government bureaucracy to enforce these restrictions and to over see them being met. every freaking government program cost damm a 100 million dollars it seems. and half them are over lapping each other and doing the same thing. we are 14 trillion in debt you couldn't even count to 1 trillion in your entire lifetime even if your kids and grand kids kept it going when u died.

again thanks to all who are participating in this thread
 
B

Budders

Crazy woman

I think the woman in that clip is nuts and deff. has an agenda, wow what a spin...IMO Synder is attacking the unions first and foremost...the "thing" about contracts refers mostly to labor contracts, i don't believe the plan is to take over a city and fuck a bunch of small biz to death.

Is there a better way to release Michigan from the death grip of the union...maybe.

I do believe the unions need to not play such a large role in our state goverment from teachers to road workers to office workers to parks n rec workers all the way through Prevailing Wage and government policy.

This isn't a new idea:

Jennifer the beautiful has allready done it...if you remember back to 2010:

http://michiganmessenger.com/36227/granholm-approves-state-takeover-of-benton-harbor-finances

on a side note im gonna go check out my OG SK #1 before the lights go off

peace!
 
lone420ranger

lone420ranger

I had a letter to Snyder prepared after his election and have making changes to as time passes...i wanna see what he does first. Well, i don't know if i want to send it now, being as it deals with Cannabis.

You know, in all seriousness, if we (Farmers & such) were allowed to grow INDUSTRIAL hemp, like our neighbor to the North, Michigan would reap tremendous benefits.
 
C

chennemann

I watched that video and saw people’s responses.
Snyder is increasing taxes on individuals and decrease taxes on business. He says this spreads the pain. Here are my thoughts:
• Michigan is the 17th best state for business tax environment according to http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/bp60.pdf
www.taxfoundation.org
• Decreased tax burden for business will increase companies profit state wide.
• Increased taxes on the individuals will decrease demand.
• Even though business will be able to afford more employees, why would they if demand is equal or less? Why not make more profit? Profits very seldom trickle down in general. I know Ford and GM gave bonuses.
• Other states are giving deals to companies to move to their state. This is real sad, because the people are the ones that loose out.
• If you were a company would you want to move to Michigan and Detroit in particular?
I just don’t see how lowering taxes on business tax is going to drive business to Michigan. Michigan has to many problems and not enough high end talent to drive companies here.
 
G

gooey

Talent...creativity...ect are the backbone of capitalism...not corporate tax breaks...it is not truly free market capitalism to bail out companys or give any company a break...if you think giving a break to a company that is going to mean more money in the pockets of our citizins i got a lot of shit to sell you as well that is not real...think about it a nice example is tha plant we love...prices are at a all time low 4 a bow wholesale...has the price of 8ers gone the same way? hell no the consumer is still paying 50 or 60 while the retailer is getting a break...why pass on the profits? why are corporations going to pass it on? capitalism is about making the most, not sharing the wealth...gl with your theorys on big bussiness bringing in jobs...look how thats gone so far...peace n puffs
 
B

Budders

My family owns a local biz, we pay huge taxes thanks to "granholm the whore". If our company paid less taxes my family will be able to give more to our employees. I think far to many people think biz owners are greety and don't take care about their peeps.

This is America, anyone can go start their own biz at anytime anywhere. Far to many people complain about how "the man" is holding them down.

Bottom line is educated, energetic, intelligent, dynamic people WILL be successful whether it be in MI or anywhere else.

Most self made rich/happy people didn't get there by being lucky...on the flip side most poor/depressed people didn't get/remain that way because they are unlucky. Think about it.
 
Irish

Irish

get rid of NAFTA and the likes, and start buying american made products! and when steelcase, and others that located ops in other countries wanna come back, make em pay out thier asses for abandoning thier nation. i see this type of buisness as treason!

i've been trying to sell my mi home for awhile now and move out west maybe, ive alway favored moving to oregon. but my property value dropped so far it will be impossible to sell it, and relocate, so im stuck to ride another storm out.

keep your top knot intact, and your powder dry...
 
C

chennemann

My family owns a local biz, we pay huge taxes thanks to "granholm the whore". If our company paid less taxes my family will be able to give more to our employees. I think far to many people think biz owners are greety and don't take care about their peeps.

This is America, anyone can go start their own biz at anytime anywhere. Far to many people complain about how "the man" is holding them down.

Bottom line is educated, energetic, intelligent, dynamic people WILL be successful whether it be in MI or anywhere else.

Most self made rich/happy people didn't get there by being lucky...on the flip side most poor/depressed people didn't get/remain that way because they are unlucky. Think about it.
According to the report I read Michigan is 17th best in the country for taxes on business.

Of course biz owners are greedy. Very few would be willing to risk their money for no profits. Our economy is built on greed. Socialism is a much better system in theory, but where is the incentive to take risk or develop something new? Business owners are willing to take the risk to make profits.
BTW workers go beyond and try to get advancements because of greed also. Yes there are some people just for the achievement just like there are some companies that do it for nonprofit.

I just don’t see companies hiring more unless the demand increases. Why would I produce more diabetic supplies if the old are no longer able to afford them?
 
M

MIway

This is America...

Most self made rich/happy people didn't get there by being lucky...on the flip side most poor/depressed people didn't get/remain that way because they are unlucky. Think about it.


Ahhhh... The American Dream... perfume for shat.

I know a lot of 'successful' people that are dumber than dirt... circumstances, timing & the people they knew were key.

Know of lot of 'unsuccessful' people that are sharper than a tact... circumstances, timing & the people they didn't know were key.


Depends on who's defining successful & the issue of real access. Personally, it seems a continued myth... that everyone has the ability to become a millionaire. Shit, the numbers don't even work out... the american dream can't be true for everyone for to have some with a lot, others must have very little. That's the real operating of the dream... have's & have nots.
 
S

SSHZ

Guest
The bottom line is America is going to shit........... and the bottom has to fall out so we can push the reset button and start re-thinking things. We're in 3 wars now, facing $6-$7 gas prices in the near future, facing nuclear fall-out in our water from Japan, 25% of mortgages under water (owe more than worth) and 33% of all mortgages heading towards bankruptcy or there already if you consider the last 2 years and the next 2 years , 20 million people either out of work or just stopped looking, higher taxes with lower deductions, a terrible health care bill facing all of us in 2014, unsustainable gov. debt...... I could go on and on. These are seriously bad times and when it gets bad enough- the riots will start in the streets. Remember the 60's? Actually, most of you probably don't. LOL
 
420alldaze

420alldaze

you said it all sshz! our country is falling apart and its not going to change itself.
 
M

MIway

The bottom line is America is going to shit........... and the bottom has to fall out so we can push the reset button and start re-thinking things. We're in 3 wars now, facing $6-$7 gas prices in the near future, facing nuclear fall-out in our water from Japan, 25% of mortgages under water (owe more than worth) and 33% of all mortgages heading towards bankruptcy or there already if you consider the last 2 years and the next 2 years , 20 million people either out of work or just stopped looking, higher taxes with lower deductions, a terrible health care bill facing all of us in 2014, unsustainable gov. debt...... I could go on and on. These are seriously bad times and when it gets bad enough- the riots will start in the streets. Remember the 60's? Actually, most of you probably don't. LOL
Nah... this is all by design... zeitgeist baby! ;-)
 
B

bigcat

7
0
0
it will all end in a egypt style revolt which will cause the canadian military to be called in and kill millions of americans gotta love democracy
 
B

Budders

Ahhhh... The American Dream... perfume for shat.

I know a lot of 'successful' people that are dumber than dirt... circumstances, timing & the people they knew were key.

Know of lot of 'unsuccessful' people that are sharper than a tact... circumstances, timing & the people they didn't know were key.


Depends on who's defining successful & the issue of real access. Personally, it seems a continued myth... that everyone has the ability to become a millionaire. Shit, the numbers don't even work out... the american dream can't be true for everyone for to have some with a lot, others must have very little. That's the real operating of the dream... have's & have nots.

I agree alot of people get lucky with timing/relationships being key to their success, but imo MOST self-made (not pre-existing rich families) successful people do it with hard work and good morals. I believe that doing good and working hard builds good karma and in return will almost always bring life success. Defining success as being happy, healthy and fullfilled...Not being rich, and having physical items beyond human necessities. If someone has a happy, healthy fulfilled family/life then they are successful IMO.

Far to many people use money and possessions to determine their success/happiness and that makes them so greedy that they are willing to make others suffer to their gain.

Not to be simplistic or short minded but imo the biggest part of the "American dream" for my great grandfather who immigrated here was freedom. We are still free. We are free to pack our shit up and take all our belongings and American dollars to any country we choose and start a new life. If America gets to bad for me I'll move my family somewhere better. For now I'd like to see more folks make the best of what they got and help their neighbors in need.
 
B

Budders

According to the report I read Michigan is 17th best in the country for taxes on business.

Of course biz owners are greedy. Very few would be willing to risk their money for no profits. Our economy is built on greed. Socialism is a much better system in theory, but where is the incentive to take risk or develop something new? Business owners are willing to take the risk to make profits.
BTW workers go beyond and try to get advancements because of greed also. Yes there are some people just for the achievement just like there are some companies that do it for nonprofit.

I just don’t see companies hiring more unless the demand increases. Why would I produce more diabetic supplies if the old are no longer able to afford them?
I believe that Michigan is 17th best in the us for biz. tax. In MI we offer lots of huge tax breaks to very large corp. Like insurance companies (theirs more in MI than anywhere in the US), now movie production etc.

MI is not a friendly environment for small (mostly family) biz. Granholm started the MI biz tax or MBT a few years back. And it is, in its simplest form, a standard tax on small biz based on their gross receipts NOT profit. So last year when our construction company lost 50,000.00 on 2 mil in gross receipts (like many construction companies have been) we paid huge taxes that hurt my family and our employees very badly.

Doesn't it make sense to tax people and biz based on how much they make not how much work they do?

My comment was based on my family and my experiences as small biz owners. I can't relate or comment on what its like to be rich and own a huge corporation.
 
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