someone please!!!!

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Tobor the 8th Man

Tobor the 8th Man

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Trichomes, whether they are bulbous, capitate stalked or capitate sessile will rupture, burst, explode, an cease to exist in freezing temps. If your serious about experimenting I suggest you get a high quality 10-25x jewelers loupe. I've heard they make special loupes with camera's built in to photograph magnified images. While the camera is not really necessary; it will surely help to notice the profound before and after differences in glandular coverage due to freezing. I'm not wanting to be argumentative, I just want you to know that when you freeze buds that are not completely dried and cured you will have major glandular trichome loss; and when you freeze well dried and cured buds you will have moderate trichome loss. Trichomes are specialized epidermal cells present in most plants. Glandular trichomes contain volatile oils, terpenes, terpenoids and many other secretions that are produced by plants. While structurally diverse trichomes have three basic variants. In cannabis there are Bulbous, capitate-sessile, and capitate-stalked trichomes. The Bulbous trichomes are the smallest(15-30 microns) and are typically composed of 1-4 cells each for the foot, stalk, and gland respectively. Capitate sessile trichomes are much larger and more numerous than bulbous glands; with the gland head measuring from 25-100 microns and composed of 8-16 cells. Capitate sessile glands appear to not have a stalk, and thus is why they are referred to as being "sessile." In truth capitate sessile trichomes are stalked, but the stalk is only one cell tall. Capitate stalked trichomes are where cannabinoids are found in the greatest abundance. Capitate stalked trichomes measure from 150-500 microns. Capitate stalked trichomes form during flowering. These capitate stalked glands have a unique structure that consists of a tier of secretory disc cells which is topped by a large secretory cavity. When capitate stalked trichomes on fresh plant matter are placed in freezing their secretory cavities burst as the fluid within expands. Mel Frank, and Ed Rosenthal would tell you the same thing brother. In fact Mel Frank would get heated over this topic. Mel Frank had more than a few derogatory words for those who freeze their buds. Any way, To each his own. So if it makes you content, and you think your getting better results from freezing your nugs than enjoy those nugcicles.

p.s. Garlic, while a good try, would fare no differently in a freezer. Garlic can only be frozen for 10-12 months(beyond that and you have no nutritional or taste value) either as cloves or as a whole head, but it will lose it's firm texture and its potent flavor during freezing. It is suggested when cooking with frozen garlic, to not thaw before adding to a dish.

Bubblehash is just a myth then?

If you put a fresh bud in a paper bag and freeze it for a week or so it is going to be DRY!!! There is air circulating and things get dried out. That is why you plastic bag or wax box vegetables otherwise they would become dehydrated and freezer burned. You want a fresh bud to dry. Paper bag allows drying and prevents freezer burn.

People do freeze dry and cure weed. I don't but people do.

Freezing at normal household freezer levels does not burst trichs.

Go research FREEZE DRYING. There is Bubble Hash, freeze dried coffee and peanuts and my friends vacuumed sealed and frozen buds will knock you on your ass after a year.
 
R

Rolln J

Guest
the guy who makes the best bubble I have smoked freezes his trim fresh and its by far the purest and best tasting bubble you can get in any bay area club.

I have always froze my trim after it dried and have not tried this yet.

I am not advocating freeze drying weed however - just throwing that out there.
 
M

MIZZ ELVIS

289
0
Tuggernuts the 8th smoker.... 1st of all Bubble hash is not produced with freezing temperatures, so your point is non-sensical at best. Secondly When placing wet or dry trim/bud in a freezer prior to water hash extraction, your only to do so for 30 60 minutes at most. This is done to help make the stripe cells of the stock brittle to help aid in a better yield and quality of hash. If you knew what you were talking about, you would also know that the secretory cavities of glandular trichomes become brittle and burst long after the stripe cells of the stalk. This is a scientific fact!!!!
Secondly, Freezing and Freeze drying are two completely different processes. To compare A freeze dryer to a house hold freezer, shows your lack of knowledge about the subject. Your very misinformed bro. Freeze drying (also known as lyophilization or cryodesiccation) Takes place in a vacuum, and is a dehydration process. Freeze-drying works by freezing the material and then reducing the surrounding pressure and adding enough heat to allow the frozen water in the material to sublime directly from the solid phase to gas. Now freeze drying buds might work, but I wouldn't care to try. You should learn a little more before you go running your mouth about something you obviously are misinformed about. You should read up on the effects of freezing(not freeze drying) on organic matter, especially plants and their cells. Trichomes exploding in freezing temps, is an indisputable scientific fact. Maybe you don't know who Mel frank or Ed Rosenthal are, but In my opinion, factual scientific research done by these guys on the subject, means a helluva lot more to me than your false conjecture. I've stored buds in VACCUM SEALED BAGS FOR A LONG TIME IN A FREEZER AND WHEN I CONSUMED THEM THEY DID THE JOB.....BUT, THE QUALITY AND STRENGTH IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT A NORMAL DRYING AND CURING PROCESS CAN PRODUCE. IF YOUR BUDDIES VACUUM SEALED FREEZER BUDS, COULD KNOCK ANYONE(OTHER THAN A LIGHT WEIGHT) ON THEIR ASS, THAN MY PROPERLY CURED AND DRIED ELVIS OR PINK CADDILAC WOULD GIVE EM A PSYCHOTIC EPISODE. I WISH I COULD GET KNOCKED ON MY ASS, BY ANY BUD BUT UNFORTUNATELY MY TOLERANCE IS TOOOOO HIGH. BECAUSE I DON'T SMOKE FREEZER BUD.
 
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MIZZ ELVIS

289
0
This is what a freeze dryer looks like. ...
180px-Production_Freeze_Dryer_in_2008.JPG


180px-Benchtop_freeze_dryer.JPG



21inNTyi5IL._SL250_.jpg
 
M

MIZZ ELVIS

289
0
Exerpt taken from the book: Marijuana Botany by Robert C. Clarcke.

Now, if you can read this in its entirety, you will learn a thing or two.......Real Science Folks!!!!!!!

Curing Floral Clusters

Harvesting, drying, curing, and storage of Cannabis
floral clusters to preserve and enhance appearance, taste,
and psychoactivity is often discussed among cultivators.
More floral clusters are ruined by poor handling after har-
vest than by any other single cause. When the plant is har-
vested, the production of fine floral clusters for smoking
begins. Cannabis floral clusters are harvested by two basic
methods: either individually, by cutting them from the
stalks and carefully packaging them in shallow boxes or
trays, or all simultaneously by uprooting or cutting off the
entire plant. In instances where the floral clusters mature
sequentially, individual harvest is used because the entire
plant is not ripe at any given time. Removing individual
clusters also makes drying easier and quicker because the
stalks are divided into shorter pieces. Floral clusters will
dry much more slowly if the plant is dried whole. This
means that all of the water in the plant must pass through
the stomata on the surface of the leaves and calyxes in-
stead of through cut stem ends. The stomata close soon
after harvest and drying is slowed since little water vapor
escapes.
Boiling attached Cannabis roots after harvesting whole
plants, but before drying, is an interesting technique. Origi
nally it was thought by cultivators that boiling the roots
would force resins to the floral clusters. In actuality, there
are very few resins within the vascular system of the plant
and most of the resins have been secreted in the heads of
glandular trichomes. Once resins are secreted they are no
longer water-soluble and are not part of the vascular sys-
tem. As a result, neither boiling nor any other process will
move resins and cannabinoids around the plant. However,
boiling the roots does lengthen the drying time of the
whole plant. Boiling the roots shocks the stomata of the
leaves and forces them to close immediately; less water
vapor is allowed to escape and the floral clusters dry more
slowly. If the leaves are left intact when drying, the water
evaporates through the leaves instead of through the
flowers.
Whole plants, limbs, and floral clusters are usually
hung upside down or laid out on screen trays to dry. Many
cultivators believe that hanging floral clusters upside-down
to dry makes the resins flow by gravity to the limb tips. As
with boiling roots, little if any transport of cannabinoids
and resins through the vascular system occurs after the
plant is harvested. Inverted drying does cause the leaves to
hang next to the floral clusters as they dry, and the resins
are protected from rubbing off during handling. Floral clus-
ters also appear more attractive and larger if they are hung
to dry. When laid out flat to dry, floral clusters usually
develop a flattened, slightly pressed profile, and the leaves
do not dry around the floral clusters and protect them.
Also, the floral clusters are usually turned to prevent spoil-
age; this requires extra handling. It is easy to bruise the
clusters during handling, and upon drying, bruised tissue
will turn dark green or brown. Resins are very fragile and
fall from the outside of the calyx if shaken. The less hand-
ling the floral clusters receive the better they look, taste
and smoke. Floral clusters, including large leaves and stems,
usually dry to about 25% of their original fresh weight.
When dry enough to store without the threat of mold, the
central stem of the floral cluster will snap briskly when
bent. Usually about 10% water remains in dry, stored Can-
nabis floral clusters prepared for smoking. If some water
content is not maintained, the resins will lose potency and
the clusters will disintegrate into a useless powder exposed
to decomposition by the atmosphere.
As floral clusters dry, and even after they are sealed
and packaged, they continue to cure. Curing removes the
unpleasant green taste and allows the resins and cannabi-
noids to finish ripening. Drying is merely the removal of
water from the floral clusters so they will be dry enough
to burn. Curing takes this process one step farther to pro-
duce tasty and psychoactive marijuana. If drying occurs
too rapidly, the green taste will be sealed into the tissues
and may remain there indefinitely. A floral cluster is not
dead after harvest any more than an apple is. Certain meta-
bolic activities take place for some time, much like the
ripening and eventual spoiling of an apple after it is picked.
During this period, cannabinoid acids decarboxylate into
the psychoactive cannabinoids and terpenes isomerize to
create new polyterpenes with tastes and aromas different
from fresh floral clusters. It is suspected that cannabinoid
biosynthesis may also continue for a short time after har-
vest. Taste and aroma also improve as chlorophylls and
other pigments begin to break down. When floral clusters
are dried slowly they are kept at a humidity very near that
of the inside of the stomata. Alternatively, sealing and
opening bags or jars or clusters is a procedure that keeps
the humidity high within the container and allows the
periodic venting of gases given off during curing. It also
exposes the clusters to fresh air needed for proper curing.
If the container is airtight and not vented, then rot
from anaerobic bacteria and mold is often seen. Paper
boxes breathe air but also retain moisture and are often
used for curing Cannabis. Dry floral clusters are usually
trimmed of outer leaves just prior to smoking. This is
called manicuring.
The leaves act as a wrapper to protect the delicate
floral clusters. If manicured before drying, a significant
increase in the rate of THC breakdown occurs.

Storage
Cannabis floral clusters are best stored in a cool, dark
place. Refrigeration will retard the breakdown of canna-
binoids, but freezing has adverse effects. Freezing forces
moisture to the surface from the inside of the floral tissues
and this harms the resins secreted on the surface
.
Floral
clusters with the shade leaves intact are well protected
from abrasion and accidental removal of resins, but mani-
cured floral clusters are best tightly packed so they do not
rub together. Glass jars and plastic freezer bags are the
most common containers for the storage of floral clusters.
Polyethylene plastic sandwich or trash bags are not suited
to long-term storage since they breathe air and water vapor.
This may cause the floral clusters to dry out excessively
and lose potency. Heat-sealed boilable plastic pouches do
not breathe and are frequently used for storage. Glass
canning jars are also very air-tight, but glass breaks. It is
feared by some connoisseurs that plastic may also impart
an unpleasant taste to the floral clusters. In either case,
additional care is usually taken to protect the floral clus
ters from light so another opaque container is used to cover
the clear glass or plastic wrapping. Clusters are not sealed
permanently until they have finished curing. Curing in-
volves the presence of oxygen, and sealing floral clusters
will end the free exchange of oxygen and end curing. How-
ever, oxygen also causes the slow breakdown of THC to
CBN, so after the curing process is completed, the con-
tainer is completely sealed. Any oxygen present in the con-
tainer will be used up and no more can enter. Nitrogen has
been suggested as a packing medium because it is very non-
reactive and inexpensive. Jars or bags may be flooded with
nitrogen to displace air and then sealed. Vacuum-sealing
machines are available for Mason jars and may be modified
to vacuum-sealed bags.
The proper harvesting, curing, and storage of Cannabis
closes the season and completes' the life cycle. Cannabis is
certainly a plant of great economic potential and scientific
interest; its rich genetic diversity deserves preservation and
its possible beneficial uses deserve more research.

He who sows the ground with care and diligence
acquires greater stock of religious merit than he
could gain by the repetition of ten thousand
prayers.
-Zoroaster, Zend-avesta
 
L

Lost

2,969
38
Things just don't cease to exist. If the argument is that it degrades the tricome, I guess its possible, but I think it is important that freezing the material involved in making bubblehash is very common. I would also argue that the trichome is more or less a oil based resin. But the point is alot of commercial and home made hash is made by freezing the material, previously. There is some debate over dried or not is better, but I would think that it would need to be at least a little dried out to avoid a soggy mess if you were not going to use it for hash.

Personally I would not do it except for bubble hash and then I would do it almost universally. Its freezing the trichome making it easier to knock it off the plant matter when stiring. :)
 
L

Lost

2,969
38
Exerpt taken from the book: Marijuana Botany by Robert C. Clarcke.

Now, if you can read this in its entirety, you will learn a thing or two.......Real Science Folks!!!!!!!

but freezing has adverse effects. Freezing forces
moisture to the surface from the inside of the floral tissues
and this harms the resins secreted on the surface

But if you have dried it out a little already, what moisture is being sent to the surface and if your making hash out of the material, who cares? Im also interested to know why moisture passing thu the tric damages the tric. Also, does this not happen anyway when we dry it out normally? Its not a different process.. Drying is dryiing, high moisture being absorbed by the lower moisture content air. Cold air is very dry, I dunno :)
 
M

MIZZ ELVIS

289
0
I stand by the word of Robert C. Clarcke as I'm sure he's invested more effort into experimenting and researching the subject than just about anyone else.
I suggest you re-read this entire thread, if it fails to compute I give up. Bottom line is, There are better ways to dry, cure & to store marijuana long term than by using a Freezer for any of the above.
Tuggernuts the 8th smoker.... 1st of all Bubble hash(water Hash) is not produced with freezing temperatures,(Ice water dose not constitute a freezing environment , otherwise you would have a hash popsicle) so your point is non-sensical at best. Secondly When placing wet or dry trim/bud in a freezer prior to water hash extraction, your only to do so for 30 60 minutes at most. This is done to help make the stripe cells of the stock brittle to help aid in a better yield and quality of hash. If you knew what you were talking about, you would also know that the secretory cavities of glandular trichomes become brittle and burst long after the stripe cells of the stalk. This is a scientific fact!!!!
Secondly, Freezing and Freeze drying are two completely different processes. To compare A freeze dryer to a house hold freezer, shows your lack of knowledge about the subject. Your very misinformed bro. Freeze drying (also known as lyophilization or cryodesiccation) Takes place in a vacuum, and is a dehydration process. Freeze-drying works by freezing the material and then reducing the surrounding pressure and adding enough heat to allow the frozen water in the material to sublime directly from the solid phase to gas. Now freeze drying buds might work, but I wouldn't care to try. You should learn a little more before you go running your mouth about something you obviously are misinformed about. You should read up on the effects of freezing(not freeze drying) on organic matter, especially plants and their cells. Trichomes exploding in freezing temps, is an indisputable scientific fact. Maybe you don't know who Mel frank or Ed Rosenthal are, but In my opinion, factual scientific research done by these guys on the subject, means a helluva lot more to me than your false conjecture. I've stored buds in VACCUM SEALED BAGS FOR A LONG TIME IN A FREEZER AND WHEN I CONSUMED THEM THEY DID THE JOB.....BUT, THE QUALITY AND STRENGTH IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT A NORMAL DRYING AND CURING PROCESS CAN PRODUCE. IF YOUR BUDDIES VACUUM SEALED FREEZER BUDS, COULD KNOCK ANYONE(OTHER THAN A LIGHT WEIGHT) ON THEIR ASS, THAN MY PROPERLY CURED AND DRIED ELVIS OR PINK CADDILAC WOULD GIVE EM A PSYCHOTIC EPISODE. I WISH I COULD GET KNOCKED ON MY ASS, BY ANY BUD BUT UNFORTUNATELY MY TOLERANCE IS TOOOOO HIGH. BECAUSE I DON'T SMOKE FREEZER BUD.
 
Tobor the 8th Man

Tobor the 8th Man

Supporter
2,500
163
Mizz Elviz has to resort to name calling because she doesn't understand there is more than one way to skin a cat. She hasn't been around the boards enough or have enough experience growing and smoking weed to have insider knowledge about marijuana growers being DIY geniuses.

What does Clark say about cloning pot plants? I am sure he has a section on bubble cloners and misters.

I freeze my trim until I want to use it. The trichs are not broken.

I dry and cure in the conventional hand and jar technique. But I know other people do freeze cure weed.

There are many clever ways to do things that work. I read that in prisons where they can't have lighters or smoke it is easy for a visitor to sneak in a cigarette but a lighter is difficult. The where lighting them with a piece of pencil lead put in a Mr. Coffee filter. The lead absorbed heat and got hotter than the hot water. Glowing red hot and they could light a cigarette off it.

You get the moral of my story Miss Elviz? People can freeze dry and freeze cure in a freezer. There are threads out there. The last one was on PG but there were a few on OG.

I said I didn't practice this but I did see threads where people did this. You can talk all your scientific stuff but don't be brushing off information like you know everything. It is bad mojo and bad manners. Clark only knew what he discovered. A lot has been found out since then. like Bubble Bags. He had technology that is long outdated. I bet all of us have a much better freezer than he did.
 
M

MIZZ ELVIS

289
0
Mizz Elviz has to resort to name calling because she doesn't understand there is more than one way to skin a cat. She hasn't been around the boards enough or have enough experience growing and smoking weed to have insider knowledge about marijuana growers being DIY geniuses.
.

I didn't realize it was bad manners to be educated... I didn't realize you can alter the physics of the universe to fit your argument....I didn't realize you knew me....Oh wait you dont. Im sorry you didn't like being called tuggernuts the 8th smoker. I knew you wouldn't, so I figured I'd push your buttons a lil. I was screwing with you, so My bad(name calling though, LOL how old are you????18). You on the other hand started with illogical personal attacks, as the result of an overly emotional response to some stranger on the internet. You need to calm down and learn how to use your noggin. I don't know anything about, you. Just as you know Jack about me. Tuggernuts, being on the "boards," simply "smoking" herb, and growing for ones self doesn't mean you have any wisdom, just a little experience. Real experience constitutes many years of trial and error and horrible failures cultivating, breeding, and Wisdom requires learning from those mistakes. Though that is assuming one has the capability to learn from what one is doing wrong, and it appears you don't have the capacity to learn anything. If you think its hard to cultivate exceptional cannabis, I would like to see what you would do with rare Equitant orchid species, or African violets(become death is what). I have conducted conservation/restoration projects, with the state of Florida and many different regional Biologist. Luckily, with my B.A. in Soil and Water Sciences, I'm fortunate enough to have been granted a special permit which allows me to transport and relocate endangered plant species in the state of FL. In conjunction with with the regional, state biologists office; I have managed to take arguably the 2nd or 3rd most endangered species on the continent of North America and successfully halt its destruction, as well as re-populate the species. Tell me what have you done, that makes you so credible pertaining to the knowledge of Botany??? What do you have other than anecdotal evidence based on, and postulated from personal experience that you lack the intelligence to comprehend properly any ways??

Aside from that, Frost free freezers, what people have in their homes(including you tuggernuts), are well documented (scientifically) to degrade Biological samples. R.C.C. and pretty much every research scientist with a freezer since the 60's has used freezer technology suited to their study....Simply put your Freezer is far more damaging to biological samples than, the kinds of freezers found in Tissue research labs in the 60's-70's. Criminals in prison can make hooch in a toilet out of fruit cocktails and sugar; and just because they can do it, doesn't make it a better choice than a 12 year-old highland single malt scotch..... I understand the ingenuity of man very well. After all, we are homo Sapiens; to simplify for you that means "thinking Man": Its our DIY nature that made us a successful species. Obviously some of us "DIY" with a lil more brain power, and success.... lol Besides prison ingenuity has no relevance to the destruction of plant tissue by freezing. I get what you were attempting to say, but it still has no relevance to the topic of this thread.

Is this what you call mature behavior????
Getting pissy with the creator of the farm over a simple pack of seeds??? Even if you really wanted them sooooo bad, it doesn't change the fact that you acted like a whining child. Maybe your the Alpha Male, DIY, freezer boy, GED genius where you come from, but around here your just another dipshit. Capishe!!! You can respond If it makes you feel better, but I won't be wasting my time on this any more. If you weren't such a dunce, maybe you wouldn't have such a hard time, and you could learn a thing or two.



#1 (permalink)
Tobor the 8th Man
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wanted to bid
Got 15 posts and still no way to bid. Oh well I guess logic won't get as much as he could have.
cya around cyberspace on a different site that lets you bid.

08-08-2008, 08:05 AM #2 (permalink)
biggs
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if your having a problem bidding send logic a pm and i'm sure he'll sort it out......

08-08-2008, 08:24 AM #3 (permalink)
wesbrks
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sounds more like a personal problem to me... peace

08-08-2008, 09:05 AM #4 (permalink)
adam
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i understand the 25 post rule makes sense keeps some trolls away

08-08-2008, 10:18 AM #5 (permalink)
hererisssh
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It's been changed to 15 bids, read the announcements.

08-08-2008, 10:23 AM #6 (permalink)
logic
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LOL at some people attitude
The script that moves you into the usergroup that allows you to bid only runs every hour.
A quick pm to me would of solved the problem
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08-08-2008, 10:40 AM #7 (permalink)
logic
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I have now set it to run every 10mins...Hope your happy now dude
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08-08-2008, 10:45 AM #8 (permalink)
Blaner123Doobie
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A hardworking and responsive host :-)
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08-08-2008, 01:50 PM #9 (permalink)
PhishH3ad
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indeed

08-08-2008, 08:11 PM #10 (permalink)
Tobor the 8th Man
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That was quick. Sorry I wanted to bid on those real bad. I knew it was my only chance before they closed because I had to go away. I thought I was never going to see them again. Yes I was bummed. Sorry for the dispair.

But now I see there are more packs up for auction.

WOOHOO!!!..... Tuggernuts, your 1 thread sure shows your experience with the "Boards."
 
H

highrise

21
0
This is kind of tangential to the conversation but the reason veggies go soft when frozen and thawed has to do with the speed of freezing.

Ice formation is a crysilazition process. When veggies are slow frozen (like your household freezer) the ice crystals have time to grow too large and burst the cell walls. If you flash freeze your vegies (such as using dry ice) the crystals do not hve time to grow large enough to burst the cells and the defrosted vegie will look much like it did before it was frozed. You can try this at home with strawberries. Freeze the strawberries with dry ice in a cooler and then thaw them. The dry ice strawberries will not turn to mush when they thaw back out like those frozen in a normal freezer.

As for the freeze drying in a normal freezer around here we call that freezer burn and it does work. I don't do it but that doesn't mean it wont work.

The main reason i see people freezing pot around my area though is for odor control though and not preservation. I have never seen the degradation of the crystals but no one I know freezes it for more than a couple months at a time anyway and 6+ months never happens around here.

Hell with friends like mine I'm lucky to get it dry before they come begging much less cured. They assume i'm keeping all the good buds becuse mine are so much nicer since I'll sit on them for 3-4 weeks before breaking them out and they have already smoked theirs up.
 
M

MIZZ ELVIS

289
0
Buy a 10-25x loupe and see for yourself. Your dead on about the ice crystal formation being the main culprit, but you forgot about Gaseous sublimation. Despite its benefits for preservation over conventional frost free freezer designs, flash freezing will still destroy a good % of glandular Trichomes. The only method for preservation that involves freezing with the least amount of cellular damage caused, are proprietary techniques of freeze drying(still not trichome friendly though) used by a few different company's starting with Lamb, U.S. Pat. No. 3,219,463(Nov. 23, 1965). The Lamb process is a two-step procedure requiring a high level of vacuum (down to an absolute pressure of 4.6 torr). In order to reconstitute the material upon thawing, the prior sublimation of water must be replaced.
In complex or dense cellular structures, it is difficult to obtain an even reconstitution in this manner. Furthermore, tissues of delicate cell structure are often unable to withstand the stress accompanying a large amount of material passing through the cell walls during both dehydration and reconstitution.

The removal of at least a portion of the dissolved gases from the intracellular fluid of a cellular formation usually permits the freezing and reconstitution of the formation without substantial damage to the cell structure or the formation of embolism.

The optimum decompression level varies not only with the type of organic matter, but with the altitude or climate in which the organic matter is grown. This is particularly true in the case of plant matter such as vegetables or fruits grown at high altitudes or in relatively cold or warm environments. The relatively fragile cell walls occurring in plants grown at high altitudes render the cell structure more susceptible to rupture and more permeable to the diffusion of gases and vapors. In such cases special care must be taken to avoid dehydration of the cells as well as to keep the cell structure intact.

Decompression may be done either before or during the cooling process. Preferably, decompression and cooling are done simultaneously, to provide optimum control in permitting gases to escape while avoiding the loss of water. When done simultaneously, the relative rates of cooling and decompression must be such as to avoid flashing and yet avoid the formation of ice crystals before the gas is permitted to escape. Suitable rates are readily determined by routine experimentation. Upon thawing and reconstitution of the frozen material, those with a ruptured cell structure are readily determinable by their lack of turgor, whereas those which have withstood dehydration/reconstitution demonstrate only a slightly noticeable change in consistency and a partial loss of turgor.

Cooling can be accomplished by any conventional technique. When cooling and decompression are done simultaneously, it is necessary as stated above to moderate the cooling rate in order to permit the escape of gases from solution before substantial crystal formation can occur. Thus, flash freezing is preferably avoided due to increased risk of cellular embolism.

In short freeze drying would be better than flash freezing, which is better than a frost free freezer. Also freeze drying cannot be obtained without a vacuum controlled environment. Just so you know freezer burn is not the same as freeze drying. While yes freezer burn is do to gaseous sublimation, it is not the same as a professional freeze drying process. As the sublimation rate is not controlled in a vacuum. Therein lies the problem, which can have a whole smorgasbord of nasty effects; dependent on the variables of the cannabis tissue sample used.
 
ohana farms

ohana farms

113
28
be careful

just break off the amount U some, watch out for trics falling off. only freeze if U have too.
 
Tobor the 8th Man

Tobor the 8th Man

Supporter
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Mizz Elvizz is having a hissy fit. LOL!

cya
 
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MIZZ ELVIS

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Yup thats me!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:giggle: :indifferent0023: :sign0023:
 
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sensei13

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Finally, I have a chance to sit down & weigh in. First of all thanks Mizz Elvis for your responce (at least with me) being somewhat respectful aside from the last little jabs thrown in at the end of every post i.e.
So if it makes you content, and you think your getting better results from freezing your nugs than enjoy those nugcicles.

A note everyone might want to try to remember that forums can be powerful tools of research and debate, but they kind of lose their effectiveness when they become too personal, most or at least many here have many years of experience, and have researched and learned from different schools of thought. Which can often have clashing mentalities. I have an old VHS, once called the definitive "grow guide" which points out florescent lighting as pretty much useless in regards to growing, of course this was before CFL technology began to advance into what it is today. This may not be the best example, however my point is mentalities sometimes change over time; for example Albert Einstein completely reversed his theories of a static universe years after Georges Lemaître first proposed the expanding universe model. In fact Einstein even mocked the theory at first commenting commenting "Vos calculs sont corrects, mais votre physique est abominable"[5] ("Your math is correct, but your physics is abominable."). Much later in his life Einstein recalls his first theory as his "biggest blunder".

By no means am I saying you are wrong or misinformed. I respect your credentials, I have also books many of which carry the same referenced or similarly coincided information. I also have books which contradict other books on certain topics. To infer everyone but you is misinformed is a bit much. I learned from very old school growers with 20 and 30 years experience and countless inside tips, yet opposing views on many points. My views can sometimes be way out there, sometimes be wrong, or sometimes maybe possibly even ahead of their time..hehe, or not, but what is important is humility when sharing information. In my opinion respect and experience is shown not by credentials but by being informative AS WELL AS being open minded.. Just a thought for everyone quick to dismiss new paradigms and theories.

Now,
Trichomes, whether they are bulbous, capitate stalked or capitate sessile will rupture, burst, explode, an cease to exist in freezing temps. If your serious about experimenting I suggest you get a high quality 10-25x jewelers loupe.
I have a 25x - 100x micro-loupe which might not have a TV output, however it definitely shows the trichromes in great detail. I previously understood and expected the degradation of THC when exposed to freezing temps, but I wanted to see an exploded tric. I did not however see any evidence of trichrome explosion, spontaneous combustion, or unexplained disappearance after exposing a fully cured to temperatures to temperatures much lower than the average freezer via dry ice (which by the way is very accessible and is commonly used to flash freeze food, and what I think Tobor meant to refer to). Most freezers do not approach absolute zero, or at least a temperature which would cause trichromes to
burst, explode, an cease to exist
... Please understand I am not trying attack, I just don't think it is conducive to push the science behind cannabis by saying how much misinformation there is, then saying how trichromes explode. If I am wrong I will admit it, but I want to see video of a trichrome "explode off to trichrome heaven" and I would like to know the temperature & environmental factors.

One last thing, it seems like I may be pro-freezer bud, but this is not the case. I understand and as I have said in all my posts agree that it is not a good idea to throw an uncured nug in the freezer. I wouldn't normally nor have I ever condoned throwing in a fully cured bud into the freezer (aside from making hash). My point was that refrigerating has obvious benefits, and this thread got me to think about what the ideal temperature would be is as well as what the threshold is before damage. I think some kind of insight into this topic may in future be useful in some way.
 
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sensei13

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oh and.

I change my 10,000 dollar veggie to the soy bean. I will be damned if you can tell the difference from fresh. I reserve my right to change my answer due to nothing being originally said about duration, just that you wanted "a fresh vegetable that can withstand freezing & thawing, only to taste the same, and still be crisp after thawing." This could mean 10 min. of frozen time. Anyways I would like my check now, please make it out to the dude near beach somewhere between Brazil and Switzerland (oh and I also accept cash).
 
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