SmokyPockets
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Hi Bog + Mrs Bog , awesome work on this sour grape, looks absolutely beautiful. I just was looking through an old "Heads" mag yesterday , saw some of your sweet older gear, big fan of your work. I have a question for you two, do you ever make it to events on the east coast? If so, I would love a chance to meet you guys....
BushyOldGrower
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Thanks, we think SG looks quite the sexy girl!
We stay on the west coast due to logistics. It is risky to drive that far through Red States and it takes us too long away from the farm.
I regret this situation and wish I could have booth at every cannabis event. So far about five a year is our limit. We have sold so many seeds at those events over the last year that we can barely keep up.
I wish I could do Denver...Bog
We stay on the west coast due to logistics. It is risky to drive that far through Red States and it takes us too long away from the farm.
I regret this situation and wish I could have booth at every cannabis event. So far about five a year is our limit. We have sold so many seeds at those events over the last year that we can barely keep up.
I wish I could do Denver...Bog
SmokyPockets
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Whoa, hey thank you for the quick reply BOG. That's a shame , but I fully understand, it's a long ride cross this crazy country, and that means time not in the garden . Oh well, I can at least grab your beans here and obviously you can be reached here as well. I hope these sour grapes don't disappear too quick, I just got a big ass order from Sannies, and need to not spend dough on beans for a few months at least. Thanks again for your time sir, I look forward to getting your gear as soon as I can .
Max Frost
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Hey Myco,
Thanks for posting up what you're seeing in the way of phenotypes! That kind of info is great to have! How have you (BOG, or anyone else) found them to be as feeders? I'm a soil grower (using home brewed teas, guanos & FF nutes). I find most of my strains all require less nutes from using the teas, and I'm actually able to feed less because so much more of what's naturally in the soil is available to the plants. I'm assuming the S. Grape will be the same way. I haven't fed her at all yet. I just up-potted thru veg and up until she got her final pot. I amended it with additional guanos, magnesium, dolomite lime & chunky perlite. I don't expect to need to feed again until about mid flowering...depending of course, on what kind of feeders they are.
I'm thrilled to report I got a girl. I have never seen a plant so stubborn about sexing tho! I had it on an 18/6 veg schedule and it would never show preflowers for me...so I threw it in the flower tent and 14 days later...I STILL couldn't tell! No balls, no pistils! I just had these round-ish "bud-like" things growing at every node, but they were indistinquishable as to sex. (I've nicknamed this plant "Pat"!) lmao! Finally...on day 15, I could begin to make out pistils forming and growing among the buds. This plant actually formed calyxes but no pistils. The little buds were pretty good size before the pistils showed up to the party! haha! I'll try to get some pics of it up in my thread very soon. It's interesting looking!
@ BOG - is this a common trait for this strain...or once again am I getting some kind of freak occurrance? (My luck...ya know?!!)
Now that we know they're female flowers tho...I can't wait for this one! Would love to see some pics when you can Myco! Thanks bro! Best, -Max
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Myco
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LOL @ "Pat"... It's Pat!
The seem pretty hardy Max... But I'd let someone else chime in on that before you blast them.
Dood I'd like to see this freak of nature with bud formation void of pistils. I'm not sure I've seen that before... Obviously I've had plants be stubborn in showing pistils before, but IDK about the formations. I just surpassed 14ish days of flower and I've got nice tight little nuclei with tons of pistils on my SG's...
Sour Bubble and company (crosses) seems to be slower at showing sex than some, but what you described sounds a little unconventional.
The seem pretty hardy Max... But I'd let someone else chime in on that before you blast them.
Dood I'd like to see this freak of nature with bud formation void of pistils. I'm not sure I've seen that before... Obviously I've had plants be stubborn in showing pistils before, but IDK about the formations. I just surpassed 14ish days of flower and I've got nice tight little nuclei with tons of pistils on my SG's...
Sour Bubble and company (crosses) seems to be slower at showing sex than some, but what you described sounds a little unconventional.
Max Frost
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Hey BOG,
Got a question please...
I was looking back at the pics in your very first post in this thread. You can clearly see in the pics that you've removed quite a few fan leaves from the plant, but left the petioles long (I'm assuming so as not to give mold a foothold to set-up as it might if they were cut deep inside the bud close to the stem). I'm curious as to why you removed them. Was it just for pics to show the buds better, or is there a "grower strategy" behind this that you would be willing to share? Thanks in advance! Best, -Max
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Max Frost
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Well bro...anytime you're looking for unconventional...just drop by my place!! I get ALL the weird shit happening! :facepalm: I'll grab some pics at lights on today and post for you this evening. I've never had one do anything like this either!
Myco
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I pluck a lot of fans on some strains... works like a champ on most strains. Some strains not. And I think thats a common misconception that cutting fans off is conducive to budrot/mold. If your humidity is in check, you have nothing to worry about.... and what's left of the petioles die and fall off rather quickly. I do a lot of my plucking same time I undergroom or "lollipop" around the end of 3rd week when most strains are done stretching.
I know you asked BOG but I always gotta give my .02. Lol.
Haha I tend to get some strange anomalies time to time.
Cool, I gotta take those pics of SSK I was promising you... been hectic in these parts.
I know you asked BOG but I always gotta give my .02. Lol.
Haha I tend to get some strange anomalies time to time.
Cool, I gotta take those pics of SSK I was promising you... been hectic in these parts.
M
motz
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@Max Frost,we had a blueberry blast that didn't want to show what was under hear skirt also,finally a porn star dancing
Max Frost
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Here ya go brother! Sorry it took me a while to get this up. The pics show the buds more developed now, but you can still tell what I'm talking about I think. What few pistils you can finally see, are small and fine. They are beginning to grow, and I'm sure everything will equal out, but trying to determine sex on her was an ordeal! lol.
Maxy Pad - BOG Sour Grape:
Maxy Pad - BOG Sour Grape:
Maxy Pad - BOG Sour Grape:
Maxy Pad - BOG Sour Grape:
She's a beautiful, nicely structured plant! Still not sure what pheno I have here. It looks like she's going to be a bit smaller than I would've liked at finish. I was expecting more stretch, but she really hasn't stretched much at all. Aw, that's O.K. I've got a cut from her rooted and vegging, so hopefully we'll nail her ass on the next run! ;)
@ BOG - Is it normal for this strain to show red/purple petioles, or is this more likely a P or mag def? The red I'm seeing looks more genetic to me, but it's light right now and appears to be gaining color. Again tho...I'm completely unfamiliar with this strain. She's a really nice plant BOG! (Thanks)! I'll try to do her justice on the 2nd run!! Best, -Max
Max Frost
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I have heard of "defoiliation" techniques that are used to increase yield, but have never tried it. Is this what you're talking about? Does it REALLY increase your yield? It SEEMS like the leaves would drive photosynthesis! Common sense says that removing them will slow things down. I guess you have to balance this with the increased light the buds will receive. How much of an increase do you feel like you get from the technique? Can you point me to any good tutorials on it or any additional info you particularly like? Thanks in advance bro! I'll be looking VERY forward to those pics when you can! Thanks! Best, -Max
caveman4.20
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Too defoliate or not defoliate .....or some ish it's out there though
Myco
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I have a pheno that looks practically identical in structure and leaf pattern, but it didn't get that odd late pistil formation. That particular pheno of mine, which is my #3 I believe, also didn't get very much stretch. Mine has red/purple petioles as well, fwiw. Small plant you have there but I'm sure it will still give you some lovely buds ;)
Well nowadays when I think of "defoliation" I think of completely stripping the plant of all fan leaf... which I do not recommend. Basically all I do is I selectively and semi strategically remove certain leaves that are blocking budsites. Again, some strains it's almost really pointless, because some strains completely "open" up upon stretch and allow light into every nook 'n cranny. And some strains which may be a overly finicky don't respond well to stripping too many leaves and will go into stress-mode. But a lot of strains can benefit from it, if done properly. I used to pluck fans here and there during veg while training the plants, but I have found that to induce more of a degree of stress than during flower actually. IMO it's not really necessary, and I basically do all of my training with topping and snapping branches... Plucking leaf is pretty much a during-flower sort of thing.
You will see that there are some people that strip fans all throughout flower, basically plucking a handful of leaves here and there when they see budsites being blocked by light... Basically what I do, like I said before, I wait until about the 21 day mark, strip off all of the undergrowth that needs to be removed, and at the same time go through the upper canopy and remove all fan leaves that are directly blocking budsites. After that, I may pull a leaf here and there throughout flower but not much. IMO the only time you can really negatively affect a flowering plant by removing foliage is if you take TOO MUCH, or if you start plucking too soon while the plant is still stretching.
Often times, the debate of "defoliation" causing a shit slinging session and people start arguing about how you're "robbing the plant of what it's learned to do over millions of years of evolution - photosynthesis" and will refer to them as your bud-building-solar-panels. On the flipside, some folks will say that "fan leafs aren't even required for bud production, because, after all, we're growing buds not leaf, yes?" LOL. There are a couple threads I know of at IC that go into it, and discussions get heated haha. Bottom line dude, plucking off a handful of leaves to open up the plant certainly increases yield, overall bud density, and consistency of your flowers by allowing light to reach areas where it normally can't. I also maximize this effect by spreading the plant apart and zip-typing branches to my tomato cages, effectively opening the plant as while as I can for full light penetration.
You just don't want to pluck off too many. Don't remove more than... let's say... 30%? Idk. I could be off there, more or less. You get a feel for it, I suppose.
I've completely left plants of the same strain (from clone) alone while pulled fan leaf on others... end result... more airy, larfy buds and less density on those flowers not receiving as much light. The difference is obvious IMO.
Just test it out sometime and see for yourself my friend. But I promise you, you won't hurt anything buy taking a couple leaves.
Max Frost
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Thanks so much Myco, for your thoughtful, detailed answer!! I really appreciate the time and thought you put into it! Yeah, she's smaller than I would have liked ideally at finish, but like I say...this round is just a handshake to get to know ya! If the bud is looking good (which I'm SURE it will) ;) I'll try to get a better vegged plant next round and see if we can't do her justice!
I'm one of those who doesn't think you should really remove allot of fans during flower. Admittedly, I haven't tried it. I may experiment around a bit. Can't hurt much like that! That's cool you think you have the same pheno running. I can't wait to see your pics! Again bro...thank you so much! Best, -Max
Myco
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No problem man... I get to dabbing and I get to talking, it just happens lol. And plus, I'm snowed in as all fuck - so it's not like I've got much better to do on a Saturday night haha.
Yeah I often times don't worry too much about the size of the plant on the selection run... Just big enough to get an idea of the phenos' overall characteristics, of course. How many ladies did you end up with?
I definitely recommend experimenting with it, you will be very surprised to see how resilient and unaffected your plants will be - with even better results to boot :) Some breeders nowadays actually recommend removing some fan leaf on certain strains in their descriptions... I think the growers' community is accepting the concept a bit more these days.
SmokyPockets
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BushyOldGrower
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I agree with Myco and that phenotype may be the most colorful and most indica like mine. They do have a lot of color and they don't stretch much with this phenotype but the yields are ok and it finishes in eight weeks or a little less. The buds are very tasty and have huge bag appeal.
I think it takes nutes pretty well but not as well as sour bubble. I feed the shit out of my sour bubble. On the fans, we see a lot bigger lower nugs that actually increase total yield per plant but we selectively remove most during flower. The ones blocking too much light and the ones between colas so light can penetrate.
The debate does have two valid sides. Don't remove too many too early or you will harm yields.
I think it takes nutes pretty well but not as well as sour bubble. I feed the shit out of my sour bubble. On the fans, we see a lot bigger lower nugs that actually increase total yield per plant but we selectively remove most during flower. The ones blocking too much light and the ones between colas so light can penetrate.
The debate does have two valid sides. Don't remove too many too early or you will harm yields.
BushyOldGrower
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By the last week we have them stripped but it doesn't matter too much. I do want as much light as possible hitting the buds before I give them the final 48 hours in low light. Put them in the dark some time at the end of harvest for 48 hours then look at them again. They will get frostier in dark or low light.
Max Frost
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BOG,
Thanks so much bro! I can't tell you how much it means to be able to get that kind of information directly from the horses mouth so to speak!! It's great that you are a really nice guy who actually gives a shit about your customers...and so rare that a breeder will take the time to comment on individual grows and plants...and even answer specific questions!!! Mad props bro!!! For both your amazingly awesome genetics...and for being a regular guy who's definitely NOT all about the bucks. Most people would sadly let the kind of success and notoriety you've enjoyed in the industry go to their head. It's SO nice to see that it hasn't affected you and Mrs. BOG!
It's really funny...you've been my fav breeder since I got serious about growing years and years ago (not sure exactly when...but well over 10 years). Before meeting you online, I always pictured the "Bushy Old Grower" as some old white-haired dude, long beard...looking like Gandalf...wandering around, living in a cave somewhere in Humbolt or Mendicino (probably), completely surrounded with huge trees of all your strains! The sage old guru of ganja! lmao!!
That pheno sounds great! sounds like the one to have. Sadly, I flipped her too soon, but I was really looking for the plant's sex more than a good run on this one. It simply would not form pre-flowers in veg for me! I rooted a cut tho and am vegging it as a mother, so I'll be all set for next run!! I'll try to get it dialed this round and nail her ass on the next! haha! Also...I VERY MUCH agree with you about the 48 hours dark too. I've done it both ways, and have seen the difference for myself! It works!!! Thanks again so much bro!!! Best, -Max
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