Spectrum Tuning ---> with full power

[ScynceLED]

This topic seems to be one of those love/hate relationships for most people. From my biased viewpoint there is an inherent problem with the foundational question of, "what is spectrum tuning." What it has come to mean, for those lights that truly have this feature, are multiple channels of discreet or blended colors that make up a certain % of the whole and can be dimmed on or off. The positive is that you do have control over the quality of light but at the sacrifice of the quantity of light. When speaking about a channel of far-red (730nm) that only makes up 10% of the total power, this really isn't a big deal. when speaking about a color that makes up 33% - 50% of the total power, then we start to have a problem, especially if you were expecting 600w but only had access to 400w.

Recently, Scynce LED developed a new electrical engineering-based technology that allows for all of the power in a lighting fixture to get steered into a certain color channel. Picture a dam that is releasing water into three downstream rivers. This dam has the ability to release water into any of the three rivers it chooses, or, to all of them at once. This is basically how full power spectrum tuning works.

Now that we have established our basis on this topic. I am really curious to see how full power spectrum tuning changes everyone's opinion of this interesting yet not fully proven lighting feature and what creative or novel ideas are now possible for growers with a tool like this? After all, no technology is magic and it is 100% up to how the tool gets deployed (cue sword wielding metaphor...)

@scyncegrown

 

[ScynceLED]

Here's another (longer - 3 minutes) video of real life spectrum tuning showing the spectrum and wall power (watts).

 

[Burned Haze]

My question is over long period over time is it going to degrade your lights vs not having them being able to “ change spectrum “ vs a traditional quantum board like hlg brand . Like for example running times of 5-10 years how much degrading do you expect from that design ?

 

[ScynceLED]

My question is over long period over time is it going to degrade your lights vs not having them being able to “ change spectrum “ vs a traditional quantum board like hlg brand . Like for example running times of 5-10 years how much degrading do you expect from that design ?

Nothing different than normal. The "switching" mechanism is novel only in its application in lighting, the component level are tried and true parts. The LEDs themselves are run at 15% of max power/voltage during a 50/50 sharing and up to 30% of max power/voltage when you swing the spectrum to all that one color. This means that no matter what we are within the LM70 requirements. 10 years easy before noticeable degradation.

 

[Rebis]

Nothing different than normal. The "switching" mechanism is novel only in its application in lighting, the component level are tried and true parts. The LEDs themselves are run at 15% of max power/voltage during a 50/50 sharing and up to 30% of max power/voltage when you swing the spectrum to all that one color. This means that no matter what we are within the LM70 requirements. 10 years easy before noticeable degradation.

The longer video was very helpful and super, super cool. Thanks for posting these! I'm going to meet up with Garrett at NECANN and can't wait to talk his ear off re: Alpha & Kale.

Quick question: How come the far red, when boosted to 100%, doesn't consume the full 600ish watts of the fixture?

 

[ScynceLED]

Quick question: How come the far red, when boosted to 100%, doesn't consume the full 600ish watts of the fixture?

The Alpha has 600 watts of power that allows for a full 425w into either warm (2700K) white or cool (6500k) white, or any combination thereof, and 175 watts of either deep (660nm) red or far (720nm) red, or any combination thereof.

 

[Indiva710]

When will the raging Kush alpha be available as that's what I'm waiting on before I purchase the dragon alpha as well thanks

 

[scyncegrown]

A look at the new Alpha running a recipe simulation of a full day at 500 PPFD. Starting with cryptochrome activation going into sunrise, full sun, sunset and then full red phytochrome. As the recipe changes the spectrum throughout the day the PPFD stays in the desired range.

 

[ScynceLED]

A look at the new Alpha running a recipe simulation of a full day at 500 PPFD.

Thanks for sharing! This is a cool example of our new recipe simulation mode that will mimic the 12 hour (or whatever time you program) schedule in 60 seconds. It's really a great way to make sure there are no mistakes in your recipe and that it is running how you expected. Plus, if you are in week one of flowering, like @scyncegrown, and only want a max of 500 PPFD instead of the 1,000+ that's possible, this mode let's you dial that in.

 

[Mr.jiujitsu]

My boy Solventless BNV runs your lights and I’m sold. You guys are some of the best available. I love what you do, the quality of your builds and your push for science beats all. Anyone who’s looking for the best should be pricing your lights and placing an order @ScynceLED I want nothing more than your gear in my grows

 

[Rebis]

Thanks for sharing! This is a cool example of our new recipe simulation mode that will mimic the 12 hour (or whatever time you program) schedule in 60 seconds. It's really a great way to make sure there are no mistakes in your recipe and that it is running how you expected. Plus, if you are in week one of flowering, like @scyncegrown, and only want a max of 500 PPFD instead of the 1,000+ that's possible, this mode let's you dial that in.

Pretty much drooling at this point, waiting to get my hands on an Alpha. I was hoping to attend NECANN in a couple of weeks to talk to Garrett about snapping up a Kale for my 2' x 4' veg tent, but the event has just been canceled due to flu.

Question re: Spectrum: Fluence advertises that all of their fixtures run the same spectrum, provided you order each light with matching PhysioSpec Indoor/Greenhouse, etc.. And it's just fixed/set-it-and-forget-it minus the ability to dim for overall intensity.

For all intents and purposes, if run at 100% intensity and all color channels maxed, do/would Scynce fixtures have the same spectrum across a Kale/Alpha/Kush?

 

[ScynceLED]

Question re: Spectrum: Fluence advertises that all of their fixtures run the same spectrum, provided you order each light with matching PhysioSpec Indoor/Greenhouse, etc.. And it's just fixed/set-it-and-forget-it minus the ability to dim for overall intensity.

For all intents and purposes, if run at 100% intensity and all color channels maxed, do/would Scynce fixtures have the same spectrum across a Kale/Alpha/Kush?

Good question.
Kale = no as there is no discreet 660nm or 730nm. This is a veg lights that some use to flower as you can push all wattage to 2700K white (which has a lot of red in it).
Kush and Dragon SL = exact same spectrum
Dragon Alpha = comes with same spectrum as Kush/SL as the recipes are set that way at the factory....until you start adjusting it of course. Basically a 50/50 split of 2700k/6500K and and an 80/20 split of 660/730nm gets you the same spectrum.

You can learn more here: https://scynceled.com/spectrum-tuning/spectralizer/dragon-kush/

 

[Rebis]

Good question.
Kale = no as there is no discreet 660nm or 730nm. This is a veg lights that some use to flower as you can push all wattage to 2700K white (which has a lot of red in it).
Kush and Dragon SL = exact same spectrum
Dragon Alpha = comes with same spectrum as Kush/SL as the recipes are set that way at the factory....until you start adjusting it of course. Basically a 50/50 split of 2700k/6500K and and an 80/20 split of 660/730nm gets you the same spectrum.

You can learn more here: https://scynceled.com/spectrum-tuning/spectralizer/dragon-kush/

Thanks for the quick response!

I've dug into everything on the Scynce site, my wife says I'm obsessed! Really interested in the entire architecture of these lighting systems. Currently I am vegging under an antiquated BloomBoss Fusion 600 (white casing, OG) and flowering under a Fluence SPYDR 2x. The BBF600 is doing a decent job in veg, drawing 165 w from the wall with "veg" setting selected, and the SPYDR 2x is nicely stacking colas at 6" from the canopy during late flower, but the idea of tuning spectrum is so enticing that I'm finding it difficult to properly sleep at night.

Current set up: Canna Coco in 2 gallon FloraFlex pots, top fed using GH ArmorSi @ 1/2 tsp per gallon & GH CaliMagic @ 1/4 tsp per gallon with FloraFlex V1/V2 & B1/B2 base nutrients. Avg. veg EC = 1.4 and avg. flower EC = 1.6. No other additives, feeding twice per day to give 0.1 gallon per plant per feeding (5% of total volume of container), which leads to an appropriate runoff without excessive water waste.

VEG VPD: leaf temp 72º with ~ 55% - 60% RH | room temp 84º avg. daytime and 72º avg. nighttime (according to my thermoprobe fan controller)

FLOWER VPD: not quite sure yet, 8 days into this current run and I'm still rocking the above veg settings. They're exploding, so hard to justify tweaking any settings just yet.

Literally "dying" to replicate the above settings using the same cuts with the Kale in veg, and then hopefully the Dragon Alpha in flower. I know the D.Alpha is going to outpace the S.2x considerably, definitely not an apples to apples comparison in form or intensity, and I'd probably be better suited rocking a Kush set at ~ 50% intensity to match the 500ish ppfd advertised by Fluence for the S.2x, but MA has a strict 36 w/sq ft regulation in place for licensed cultivators, and the 690w of the Kush would put us over that limit in any 4' x 4' scenario in MA re: racked gardening. If I am wrong, please steer me correctly.

TL;DR: I'm imagining using the D.Alpha will be similar to the feeling of plugging a Gibson SG Standard (also known as a "Solid Guitar") into a series of boutique pedals for the first time.

 

[ScynceLED]

Thanks for the quick response!

I've dug into everything on the Scynce site, my wife says I'm obsessed! Really interested in the entire architecture of these lighting systems.

TL;DR: I'm imagining using the D.Alpha will be similar to the feeling of plugging a Gibson SG Standard (also known as a "Solid Guitar") into a series of boutique pedals for the first time.

Yes! I love the passion and share your excitement! We really need to ask @scyncegrown to comment here as he is our Director of Cultivation and I focus on the technology side. He's the PhD level soil, environmental and IPM specialist you want to chat with.

 

[scyncegrown]

Thanks for the quick response!

I've dug into everything on the Scynce site, my wife says I'm obsessed! Really interested in the entire architecture of these lighting systems. Currently I am vegging under an antiquated BloomBoss Fusion 600 (white casing, OG) and flowering under a Fluence SPYDR 2x. The BBF600 is doing a decent job in veg, drawing 165 w from the wall with "veg" setting selected, and the SPYDR 2x is nicely stacking colas at 6" from the canopy during late flower, but the idea of tuning spectrum is so enticing that I'm finding it difficult to properly sleep at night.

Current set up: Canna Coco in 2 gallon FloraFlex pots, top fed using GH ArmorSi @ 1/2 tsp per gallon & GH CaliMagic @ 1/4 tsp per gallon with FloraFlex V1/V2 & B1/B2 base nutrients. Avg. veg EC = 1.4 and avg. flower EC = 1.6. No other additives, feeding twice per day to give 0.1 gallon per plant per feeding (5% of total volume of container), which leads to an appropriate runoff without excessive water waste.

VEG VPD: leaf temp 72º with ~ 55% - 60% RH | room temp 84º avg. daytime and 72º avg. nighttime (according to my thermoprobe fan controller)

FLOWER VPD: not quite sure yet, 8 days into this current run and I'm still rocking the above veg settings. They're exploding, so hard to justify tweaking any settings just yet.

Literally "dying" to replicate the above settings using the same cuts with the Kale in veg, and then hopefully the Dragon Alpha in flower. I know the D.Alpha is going to outpace the S.2x considerably, definitely not an apples to apples comparison in form or intensity, and I'd probably be better suited rocking a Kush set at ~ 50% intensity to match the 500ish ppfd advertised by Fluence for the S.2x, but MA has a strict 36 w/sq ft regulation in place for licensed cultivators, and the 690w of the Kush would put us over that limit in any 4' x 4' scenario in MA re: racked gardening. If I am wrong, please steer me correctly.

TL;DR: I'm imagining using the D.Alpha will be similar to the feeling of plugging a Gibson SG Standard (also known as a "Solid Guitar") into a series of boutique pedals for the first time.

Really nice set up! You have you set up all dialed in. Sounds to me like spectrum tuning will be your next step. Those MA regulations make it more difficult for sure. I used to be a Spydr 2x grower myself and these lights are indeed some next level tech. The tuning in the Alpha has given me a crazy amount of control over the plants structure. As for the Kale I think its my favorite and most effective veg light I've run.

 

[Rebis]

Really nice set up! You have you set up all dialed in. Sounds to me like spectrum tuning will be your next step. Those MA regulations make it more difficult for sure. I used to be a Spydr 2x grower myself and these lights are indeed some next level tech. The tuning in the Alpha has given me a crazy amount of control over the plants structure. As for the Kale I think its my favorite and most effective veg light I've run.

Thanks for the feedback.

Sort of putting intensity aside for the moment, what is the single most important improvement you've noticed re: S.2x to D.Alpha in regard to spectrum tuning ability?

It's tough because the D.Alpha is so much more powerful than the S.2x, and it'd be a lot easier to compare if I/you/we had both been running a VYPR 2p or something similar prior to D.Alpha integration. If I could only get my hands on one right now, lol. I'd never leave my R&D room. Legit would sleep there, climate is fantastic.

I apologize for 1,000 questions. We're currently small business owners in another industry, and vetting tech is so important, the pitfalls of choosing the wrong tech cannot be overstated.

 

[scyncegrown]

Thanks for the quick response!

I've dug into everything on the Scynce site, my wife says I'm obsessed! Really interested in the entire architecture of these lighting systems. Currently I am vegging under an antiquated BloomBoss Fusion 600 (white casing, OG) and flowering under a Fluence SPYDR 2x. The BBF600 is doing a decent job in veg, drawing 165 w from the wall with "veg" setting selected, and the SPYDR 2x is nicely stacking colas at 6" from the canopy during late flower, but the idea of tuning spectrum is so enticing that I'm finding it difficult to properly sleep at night.

Current set up: Canna Coco in 2 gallon FloraFlex pots, top fed using GH ArmorSi @ 1/2 tsp per gallon & GH CaliMagic @ 1/4 tsp per gallon with FloraFlex V1/V2 & B1/B2 base nutrients. Avg. veg EC = 1.4 and avg. flower EC = 1.6. No other additives, feeding twice per day to give 0.1 gallon per plant per feeding (5% of total volume of container), which leads to an appropriate runoff without excessive water waste.

VEG VPD: leaf temp 72º with ~ 55% - 60% RH | room temp 84º avg. daytime and 72º avg. nighttime (according to my thermoprobe fan controller)

FLOWER VPD: not quite sure yet, 8 days into this current run and I'm still rocking the above veg settings. They're exploding, so hard to justify tweaking any settings just yet.

Literally "dying" to replicate the above settings using the same cuts with the Kale in veg, and then hopefully the Dragon Alpha in flower. I know the D.Alpha is going to outpace the S.2x considerably, definitely not an apples to apples comparison in form or intensity, and I'd probably be better suited rocking a Kush set at ~ 50% intensity to match the 500ish ppfd advertised by Fluence for the S.2x, but MA has a strict 36 w/sq ft regulation in place for licensed cultivators, and the 690w of the Kush would put us over that limit in any 4' x 4' scenario in MA re: racked gardening. If I am wrong, please steer me correctly.

TL;DR: I'm imagining using the D.Alpha will be similar to the feeling of plugging a Gibson SG Standard (also known as a "Solid Guitar") into a series of boutique pedals for the first time.

Thanks for the feedback.

Sort of putting intensity aside for the moment, what is the single most important improvement you've noticed re: S.2x to D.Alpha in regard to spectrum tuning ability?

It's tough because the D.Alpha is so much more powerful than the S.2x, and it'd be a lot easier to compare if I/you/we had both been running a VYPR 2p or something similar prior to D.Alpha integration. If I could only get my hands on one right now, lol. I'd never leave my R&D room. Legit would sleep there, climate is fantastic.

I apologize for 1,000 questions. We're currently small business owners in another industry, and vetting tech is so important, the pitfalls of choosing the wrong tech cannot be overstated.

Sure yeah I actually ran Viper in Veg. I was setting up a Fluence production facility in Portland OR
Couple things, with the spectrum tuning you have the ability to bring in/take out reds when needed for terpene production or preservation depending on your spot in a run.
Also the ability to adjust to cultivars needs. I had a Jack Harrier I ended up putting a shade cloth over with the Spydr’s even with them dimmed down. If I could have tilted more towards reds and blues that would have been unnecessary.

 

[Rebis]

Sure yeah I actually ran Viper in Veg. I was setting up a Fluence production facility in Portland OR
Couple things, with the spectrum tuning you have the ability to bring in/take out reds when needed for terpene production or preservation depending on your spot in a run.
Also the ability to adjust to cultivars needs. I had a Jack Harrier I ended up putting a shade cloth over with the Spydr’s even with them dimmed down. If I could have tilted more towards reds and blues that would have been unnecessary.

Unreal. Thanks for the insight! Another thing regarding tech: It's so freakin' hard to find open and honest companies that will actually speak to their products' innovations/problem solving in terms of real world applications. With so many manufacturers jumping into the cannabis market it's tough to weed out who/what is worth the asking price or even the time it takes to read through the copy on a new player's website re: the next big thing in cannabis (lighting/pots/nutrients/timers/HVAC/racking etc.).

I can't tell you how many times I've typed something like SPYDR 2x/DRAGON SL USER(S)/REVIEW(S)/YIELD(S)/FOOTPRINT (this one not so much anymore, thank Bud.) and come up empty handed, or landed on wayward threads of non-LED users trashing on LED lighting. It can be such a crapshoot.

Anyway, I'm going to keep an eye on the D.Alpha & Kale. Would love to snap one up and start a grow journal to document the journey from seed to harvest under one or both vs the S.2x. A log like this would have saved me hours upon hours of research up until this point. Looking to pay it forward in that regard and hoping, when the time comes, I can attract like minded cultivators to pull up a chair and grab some proverbial popcorn.

 

[airedog]

Is it worth using Raging Kale fixtures without CO2 supplementation?

I'm a small, personal-use med grower who is downsizing into 5 * 9 grow tents and i'm considering the fixtures rather than HID or CMH. The ability to tune the light is intriguing and the savings in electricity, cooling gear, and lamp changes seem to make them a viable alternative for me.

 

[logic]

Im using the Dragon SL right now without CO2 and getting great results