neverbreak
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(Copied from my profile.
I had some plants going 3 or 4 years before we met our friends from Laytonville,
but those plants were nothing like the bag I was given in Oakland.
May have actually met them at the 89-90 NYE shows...)
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The "newest" addition to this strain's <like I said above, this is probably not a strain>
genetics occurred in 1994. <until this year!!!>
Friends of mine from "the Laytonville area" brought down selected seed to the Grateful Dead shows in Las Vegas; 1991, '92, and '93.
There was three varieties in 1991 which I dubbed NCLV-A, NCLV-B, and NCLV-C; and one variety each of NCLV92, and NCLV93. <NCLV = NorthernCaliforniaLasVegas>
[this is what I was told by Tom...]
NCLV-A and NCLV93 were related. (what I call) NCLV-A migrated from NoCAL to a big grow in Arizona. I'm not sure if it was all underground or if it was sunken greenhouses or what, but they had a bunch of diesel generators. Before they got busted (by the Feds I think) they sent seeds they bred back up to NoCAL: NCLV93--
the last genetic material added to this garden <until this year!!!>...
Posted something about that in another thread yesterday: Once it matures and starts alternating there's no difference with a regular one, at least not that I noticed. So that's normal.it starting to grow like a clone, single alternating nodes??
Grapefruit, limes, lemons, tangerines, blood oranges, guava--Beautiful how that espalier is working out, with the bottom row being large fans like that. Can't get enough from looking at that leveled canopy of healthy plants. Is that an apple hanging there in your little piece of paradise?
Are you sure about that???Posted something about that in another thread yesterday: Once it matures and starts alternating there's no difference with a regular one, at least not that I noticed. So that's normal.
All my strong whorlers and many of the ones I see online started whorling long before they start alternating from maturity (which indoors already takes a month+). The strong whorlers I had started whorling around the time they reach veg stage, that is, when they are no longer seedling, so around the 4th-5th node, seemingly when they establish apical dominance, which again is long before they start alternating. The golden angle appears when it transitions from regular to whorled. So first 3-4 nodes regular, then one side is at an angle, which essentially leaves enough space on the other side. The late whorlers did the same thing but later.Are you sure about that???
Seems to me that a strong whorler _starts_ whorling when it _starts_ alternating,.
The golden angle does not appear on the same level in tri-whorled phyllotaxy in which there is an equal 120degrees between them. The next set of 3 is 60degrees turned so fits exactly in between the previous set. That alternating offset creates the "whorl". Whorled phyllotaxy is used to refer to more than 2 leaves (in case of cannabis) on the same level, once it starts alternating it changes to alternate phyllotaxy and goes 'out' of whorled phyllotaxy by definition.and that's where the term "whorled" comes from: it whorles.
It perserves those all-important angles you talk about in your "breeding for" thread--
Howbout like Dervish;The strong whorlers I had started whorling around the time they reach veg stage,
SPIRAL!!!--It cannot whorl (leaves at same level) and alternate (each leaf at different level) at the same time, it can at most spiral and alternate at the same time. I brought up that golden angle only to show that 1 node stage between regular and whorled, which is more like spiral phyllotaxy in which the golden ratio is heavily present, like a sunflower, but is a different type of phyllotaxy.
Oh but I'm not saying it can't be cloned without losing the whorling. As a matter of fact the ones I flowered were all clones. My 2nd gen were still whorling as well. I took those clones before they alternated with a large offset though. Unfortunately I haven't had one of those tricots yet and I haven't been able to observe them in the same way. There do seem to be some differences also based on posts from that other breeder (GMT, google bruisednuts tris quads) I pointed out in that Cannapa's thread. His start out as tris and one of the things he mentioned breeding out is it reverting back to regular opposite (going from 3 to 2 leaves) which mine have never done, once mine whorl they remain tris until they start alternating.Howbout like Dervish;
who started out with three cotyledons--
and preserved the whorled phyllotaxy thru six or seven prunings???
I've had one alternating side shoot I use for a cutting which seemingly started whorling again but was very small so the nodes were very tight possibly making it just look like they were on the same level (was clone of one that hermied so is gone and haven't observed it further). The whorling (as well as the fasciating stem which was also a clone), in my case anyway, seemingly starts around the time the plant establishes apical dominance.so is there still a chance a clone reverts back to the three node growth, thanks in advance
:) Technically what I refer to as regular opposite is just the opposite phyllotaxy as we regularly see it, but I should say decussate phyllotaxy or opposite decussate phyllotaxy.SPIRAL!!!--
this was already complicated enough...
I don't communicate very well online--Oh but I'm not saying it can't be cloned without losing the whorling. As a matter of fact the ones I flowered were all clones. My 2nd gen were still whorling as well. I took those clones before they alternated with a large offset though. Unfortunately I haven't had one of those tricots yet and I haven't been able to observe them in the same way. There do seem to be some differences also based on posts from that other breeder (GMT, google bruisednuts tris quads) I pointed out in that Cannapa's thread. His start out as tris and one of the things he mentioned breeding out is it reverting back to regular opposite (going from 3 to 2 leaves) which mine have never done, once mine whorl they remain tris until they start alternating.
Such a Beautiful backyard!! :woot: Great work Geo!
Oh sorry about that, why anyone would call a strain bruised nuts... Google "gmt tri quad cannabis" without the quotes. A "3 plus 3" thread should be in the results (trying to avoid linking to other forums, but he, GMT, posted it at icmag and mrnice.nl).> "google bruisednuts tris quads"
< I go thru 10 pages of injured testicles an' such and can't find anything Cannabis related...
Well you did indeed specifically said "thru six or seven prunings???" which is not through 6 or 7 generations of cloning clones as what I made of it (probably thinking in the context of caveman's question about cloning it), so that was my bad entirely :)I don't communicate very well online--
or off...
Let me draw something myself, will post it soon. But, in that example, regardless of the number of prunings, the plant will reach maturity and start alternating at some point (seem indoors that's roughly 6-8 weeks, I don't know how long that takes outdoors, likely differs per climate and strain a lot). Once it starts alternating it is no longer whorled phyllotaxy, but still a tri from the top (I will show that better in a pic). So while it alternates, it's not like two opposing nodes will suddenly be exactly opposite to each other. However, that doesn't seem to be the case with all regulars either.I wasn't refering to clones but pruning lateral stem, of lateral, of lateral, of lateral, of lateral;
and preserving the whorled phyllotaxy--
like this:
Good question. They don't really disappear if you'd look at it from the top, but I haven't noticed a decreased node spacing either. Not saying there isn't, it's something I haven't been able to compare very well since the ones I've flowered were quite different phenotypes already. That's why I added that disclaimer sort of when I said "Once it matures and starts alternating there's no difference with a regular one, at least not that I noticed." However, I did notice that colas on whorled branches do NOT get bigger/heavier/thicker than a cola from a regular branch. If it has more nodes and hence more axillary buds, they are smaller and it seems to evens out. It (regular opposite) doesn't seem to be the bottleneck (I think the branch itself is). Perhaps with the right combination (like my IH indica dom fat-stem plant) it can make a difference....and:
When the whorled plant starts alternating,
do the extra (1-tri,2-quad) leafs just disappear or are they still there--
with more nodes per inch of stem???...
Thanx a bunch Ken--Such a Beautiful backyard!! :woot: Great work Geo!
Grapefruit, limes, lemons, tangerines, blood oranges, guava--
no (Tropical Beauty) apples...
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I think the espalier is done horizontally,
tip growth of the two mainstems has slowed considerably--
next we'll see how high Heh the secondaries will get...
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