sugar in your flush to promote THC crystals??

[smokey_waters]

Anyone do this w/ results? Anything else to do to promote more crystals towards the end??

Thx,

 

[farmseeker]

I am not too sure complex sugars will do anything for crystal production.. I tried mollasses one time in my UC and boy, it fed some nasty shit and gave me serious root slime.... thanks god it was toward the end ... flushed, ran peroxide and then chopped a week later...

 

[NoReason]

I don't use sugar at the end of flowering but I bet the brix level would be higher in plant fed with sugars at the end of their life, thus a sweeter smell and aroma.
I don't know if sugars will do anything to resin, but try to consider sugar as a Carbon source. Carbon is used for a lot of things in the living plant, and if the plant don't use it, the leaves and other tissue will become a reservoir.

Plant extract the C atom from the CO2 molecule, so there is no real need to feed'em with more carbon, or at least I think more Carbon from the roots in the last phase it's not used very much by the plant.

A rich CO2 air is enough to give the plants all carbon it needs.

You maybe know that people suggest to not use extra co2 if you're not using a powerful light, at least a 400W per square meter.
This because the plant can't do nothing with the extra carbon, if the light is not enough to fix an high quantity of C atoms.
The same is for C derived from carbohydrates, if the plant can't use it, they're useless, and the plant tends to accumulate in the tissues or even expel them from the roots.

I hope this make sense, I'm really stoned tonight :D

 

[smokey_waters]

from my reading, it seems stress increases resin production. So, I'm going to take a dump on the plants and then send the video to their mother.

 

[Legallyflying]

Plants can not uptake molassis. Period. It will not pass through a restrictive layer called the casparian strip. Of you want to increase resin then drop your humidity as low as it will go. Also back off the light a little bit.

Any fool that dumps molassis in a deep water culture deserves what he is going to get... Very very bad things.

 

[hogan400]

I have heard of many people using sugars or molasses, but never in uc. I think a decent idea is to steer away form any organic products, sugars, or carbs on a first rd IMO. Advanced nutrients (big bud/overdrive)works for a lot of people here and I use it as well. Only week 6-7 for me. Get a calendar next run and put together a simple feeding plan for the strain you will run. It may not be perfect but post it first in your grow so you get yea's and nae's on where to change it. After a few days of conversation you will be starting, and have a real good usable plan!

 

[squiggly]

Plants can not uptake molassis. Period. It will not pass through a restrictive layer called the casparian strip.

This is simply untrue. There are transport proteins in endodermal cells which may allow select sugars and other solutes to pass into the plant. Sucrose (a major component of molasses) is on the list of sugars known to be uptaken by plants.

Plenty of research available on this.

 

[NoReason]

Plants can not uptake molassis. Period. It will not pass through a restrictive layer called the casparian strip. Of you want to increase resin then drop your humidity as low as it will go. Also back off the light a little bit.

Plant can not uptake molasses.....mmmmm.....sounds not true to me.

Molasses is not a molecule, but it's a compound of various molecules and elements.

It contains a lot of minerals, potassium, calcium and others, all of them easily absorbed by the plant via active or passive transportation.

It also contain small quantity of vitamins, fats and a lot of sugars.

Sugars are big molecules, but they can pass trough the cell's walls ( symplastic route)instead of passing between the cells (apoplastic route).

Btw, the fact that in the plant there is a barrier (the casparian strip) it's for every molecule, not only for sugars.

The cell use different methods to carry in different molecules. For the bigger molecules it can use endocytosis, and this is probably the first (maybe only?) method to transport sugars inside the vascular system.

 

[HydroRocks]

You guys should understand that a plant does not use sugar to make it sweet. It is a transport mechanism.

 

[NoReason]

You guys should understand that a plant does not use sugar to make it sweet. It is a transport mechanism.

Accumulation of sugars in the tissue makes the stuff sweeter, and this sweetness is measured by the brix level...

 

[HydroRocks]

Noreason- When you eat sugar do you get sweeter or nicer? Neither do your plants. Sugar is stored in leaves and converted to energy.

If you want to make your plants sweeter or taste better you add sulpher, not sugar.

The study of plant biology will greatly help you to understand what sugar does.

 

[NoReason]

Noreason- When you eat sugar do you get sweeter or nicer?

Obviously yes.
When I eat sugars they pass in my blood, and if I take a sample of my blood before and after sugars absorption, this last one will be for sure sweeter if someone would drink it.
This make perfect sense to me, and we use sugars as an energy source, as plants do.
Brix level let us know how many sugars are i a plant tissue. The more sugar, the sweeter. Think about maple syrup.....

If you want to make your plants sweeter or taste better you add sulpher, not sugar.

I do not want to add any sweet aroma to my plants. I like buds the way they're without sugars, but sulphur itself does not help so much with the taste.It is a complex metabolic system behind taste, aroma, smell where both carbohydrates and fatty acids are involved.Sulphur is an element used to create other things and it's not directly linked to aroma IMO. But if you have knowledge about this, please share.

The study of plant biology will greatly help you to understand what sugar does.

I never studied plant biology at school but I read everything I can about plants and their biology since I start growing my first plant, and I don't mean only ganja plants.
I don't know a lot of things, but I'm open to listen and learn, so if you have some knowledge on the topic, again, please share with me and the rest of people interested.

All other words.... are words, opinions, if there is not a fact behind.

Peace

 

[wanderingwobble]

Try hi brix?

 

[Legallyflying]

It's so funny to me that people still think that plant roots can uptake sugar. Seriously, what is this mysterious form of sugar that is naturally occurring in soil? If you look at plant that have very high sugar amounts (like sugar beets) and the research that has been done on how sugar content is maximized, none of them will say that dumping sugar in the soil will increase sugar amounts.

SUGARS ARE PRODUCED not absorbed. You grow two carrots on your window sill, one in water, one in sugar water and then tell me you can taste the difference.

Anywho; here is a link. While not a research paper, the appropriate mechanisms are discussed; http://www.biology-online.org/biology-forum/about10736.html


Yes, molassis contains other molecules, but the sugar molecules are two large to be absorbed by the plants. Sympastic or Apoplastic, you show me a link where it says that
Plants can uptake glucose.

 

[squiggly]

Listen you guys.

It's very simple. There are things called transmembrane proteins. These span a membrane and can either be associated with signaling, structure, or transport. The latter is what we care about.

There exist in the plant kingdom plants whose roots have been shown to have both proton symports with sucrose and potassium mediated antiports with sucrose.

IE, the protein accepts sucrose and either H+ or K respectively and then transports them across the membrane.

This isn't a guess, this has been demonstrated repeatedly. It has been shown overfeeding sucrose can inhibit photosynthesis and cause chlorophylls to break down from neglect (causing bleaching) due to an overabundance of the ultimate product of photosynthesis (sucrose).

I can't stress enough that this has been scientifically demonstrated, peer-reviewed, and repeated independently--ad nauseum. There have been x-ray crystallographic studies and other such analysis performed.

The skinny:
Can't be said for sure for cannabis specifically as thats not the main plant researched in these studies--however, many plants can and do uptake sucrose and these are not isolated incidents.

It makes sense they would take it in, they go through almost every process they undertake in the interest of producing more sucrose to supply the energy needed for metabolism. Transporting that molecule thru a sym/antiport is much cheaper energetically than doing photosynthesis. If everything started off one celled--you probably had "plant ancestor" cells back in the before times (lol) that preferred sucrose to glucose for energy--this is just a huge guess tho :P

You don't taste sweeter from sucrose,because you immediately break it down into pyruvate and or synthesize glycogen from it. That's a terrible comparison--sucrose is sweet and is analagous to glucose in animals. If we don't instantly break it down, it usually gets turned into glucose fairly quickly upon entry into your system--the body has various isomerases to accomplish this.


Ultimately, you are arguing about an answered question--and appear to be doing so vehemently in opposition with the only available scientific information that's out there which is to be easily had.

Unless you have the botanical prowess to do some further study, it stands to reason the default should at the very least come from the sources of knowledge which DO exist in this area.

I'm telling you they exist now, if you were unaware--I said as much earlier in the thread. I think many people will run into issue finding the answer to this question due to lack of scientific vocabulary and toolbox needed to ask the right questions of a browser like google.

Rest assured, however, the answers (or the best ones we have now) are there.

 

[NoReason]

It's so funny to me that people still think that plant roots can uptake sugar.

Maybe it's funny to you, but till I don't see any scentific proof that sugars can't be absorbed by vegetal cells it's funny to me some people think it can't be absorbed.
Sugars are one of the most consumed compounds by the living organism from million of years, at the point it give addiction to a lot of people!
Plants has only one important difference from animals, they're autotrophic, this mean they can produce sugars from basic element. We animals can't!

Seriously, what is this mysterious form of sugar that is naturally occurring in soil?

Maple trees contains a lot of sugars. If one falls it will release even sugars along other molecules, used by other living organism (firstly fungi), plants included.
The same is for a sugar beet. An animal eats the aerial part, and the tuber will be used by other living organism, sugars included.

If you look at plant that have very high sugar amounts (like sugar beets) and the research that has been done on how sugar content is maximized, none of them will say that dumping sugar in the soil will increase sugar amounts.

Where is the research? I would like to see it.
However I think it's pretty stupid using sugars to feed plant wich are used to produce sugars.....I mean....why someone would use sugars, extracted from other plants, to feed plants he will use to extract sugars and already have the capacity to form sugars from C - H - O ? It's a non-sense, so any sane commercial sugar producer will never use sugars for their crop.

SUGARS ARE PRODUCED not absorbed.

Sugar are produced for sure. But also absorbed and released from the roots tissues. If I remember good they're even secrete in the medium from the roots to do something involving other organisms....

You grow two carrots on your window sill, one in water, one in sugar water and then tell me you can taste the difference.

When a day I'll grow a couple of carrots behind my window I'll let you know....it's fun how you are fixed on your point of view :D

Yes, molassis contains other molecules, but the sugar molecules are two large to be absorbed by the plants.

I agree with you that sugars are big molecules and they probably can't pass trough the lipid bilayer, and maybe there isn't any kind of membrane protein good to transport it in the cell, but there is one more method the cell has to carry in something. It is used for bigger molecules and it's called endocytosis when something enter and exocytosis when something exits.

Sympastic or Apoplastic, you show me a link where it says that
Plants can uptake glucose.

You could have searched by yourself, and it would be nice to read a ''please''sometimes....but it's ok, here some extrapolated from some research. I don't know what kind of research is, I just found the first in google....

Physiological implications of Fluid-phase endocyosis in
the inner cortex


Why should Fluid-phase endocytosis be restricted to the
two-to-three innermost cell files of the cortex in maize root
apices? Apart from the fact that myosin VIII and F-actin
are enriched at the pit-fields of the inner cortex cells of the
root apex transition zone, these cells contain additional
specific features. They show rather sparse networks of
cortical MTs (BalusÏka et al., 1992, 1993b) and a surpris-
ingly low abundance of plasma membrane-associated H+
ATPases (this study; but see also Jahn et al., 1998).

The location of these cells near unloading phloem elements
which in root apices exploit apoplastic pathways (Schulz,
1994), together with inefficient energization of their
plasma membranes, are likely to contribute to the lowering
of turgor pressure in these cells. This local lowering of
turgor pressure might allow fluid-phase endocytosis to take
place (Gradmann and Robinson, 1989), especially when
combined with actomyosin forces. In fact, if plant cells are
exposed to a high concentration of extracellular sugars
these are then, as predicted by Gradmann and Robinson
(1989), readily taken up into plant cells via an LY-
accessible ¯uid-phase endocytic pathway (Jitsuyama et al.,
2001) to lower their osmotic stress. High amounts of
extracellular and intracellular sugars in the cells of the
transition zone might also contribute to cold acclimation
and protection against chilling injury.

It can be expected that endocytic uptake of phloem-
unloaded assimilates not only relieves the mild osmotic
stress imposed on these specialized inner cortex cells near
the phloem unloading sites, but this process apparently
also provides an additional route for the transport of
assimilates into the apical meristem. This suggestion
would agree with the earlier data of Bret-Harte and Silk
(1994) who calculated that the available symplastic routes
are unsuficient to provide the high carbon demands
requested by robust maize root apices. Not surprizingly,
maize is one of the largest annual plants and ¯uid-phase
endocytosis emerges as an important nutrition pathway for
nourishing their very large apical root meristems

In eukaryotic cells several pathways for the internalisation of plasma membrane proteins and extracellular cargo molecules exist. These endocytic pathways can be grouped into clathrin-dependent and clathrin-independent endocytosis. While the former one has been described to be involved in a variety of cellular processes in plants, the latter one has so far only been identified in animal and yeast cells. Here we show that internalisation of fluorescent glucose into BY-2 cells leads to accumulation of the sugar into compartments of the endocytic pathway. This endocytic uptake of glucose was not blocked by ikarugamycin (IKA), an inhibitor of clathrin-dependent endocytosis, suggesting a role for clathrin-independent endocytosis in glucose uptake. Investigations of fusion and fission of single vesicles by membrane capacitance measurements revealed a stimulation of endocytic activity by extracellular glucose. Glucose stimulated fission of vesicles was not affected by addition of IKA or block of clathrin coat formation by transient over-expression HUB1 (C-terminal part of the clathrin heavy chain). These data demonstrate that clathrin-independent endocytosis does exist in plant cells. This pathway may represent a common mechanism for the uptake of external nutrients.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-313X.2011.04892.x/abstract

Facilitated Diffusion Cells take in
many substances. Some substances pass
easily through the cell membrane by
diffusion. Other substances, such as
sugar molecules, are so large that they
can enter the cell only with the help of
molecules in the cell membrane called
transport proteins.

http://glencoe.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/007874184x/365135/GLS_71_78SE.pdf

Molecules and ions that are small enough can cross membranes easily, regardless of polarity, but large polar molecules such as glucose cannot diffuse through a cell membrane. They can only pass through hydrophilic protein channels - this process is known as facilitated diffusion. All the factors that affect diffusion affect facilitated diffusion, and an additional one - how many transport proteins are available.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/A-level_Biology/Biology_Foundation/cell_membranes_and_transport

Peace n'puffs :weed-sign:

 

[moemoe08]

they plant doesn't absorb the sugars. the sugars are eaten by the micro organisms and they poop it out in a form that can be absorbed. mollasses also breakdown (chelates) nutrients locked in the soil. therefore the sugars increase brix levels by feeding the micro organisms that make the nutrients available. the more food they eat, the more they reproduce, the more nutrients get chelated , the higher the brix levels due to the fact that there's more sugars in the plant. Sugar is used by the plant as a tissue building block to power metablisim. sugars work better with organics because of the microherd.

 

[moemoe08]

the plant creates its own sugars during photosythesis using CO2 and water.

 

[squiggly]

It's hilarious you mention sugar beets when a google of "sugar beets sucrose uptake" yields this on the first page of results:



They've even gone past showing its uptaken at this point and are assessing the effects of different compounds, conditions, and hormones on uptake--these experiments all take uptake as a foregone conclusion, something that is usually only done for widely accepted and provable concepts in science.

 

[squiggly]

they plant doesn't absorb the sugars. the sugars are eaten by the micro organisms and they poop it out in a form that can be absorbed. mollasses also breakdown (chelates) nutrients locked in the soil. therefore the sugars increase brix levels by feeding the micro organisms that make the nutrients available. the more food they eat, the more they reproduce, the more nutrients get chelated , the higher the brix levels due to the fact that there's more sugars in the plant. Sugar is used by the plant as a tissue building block to power metablisim. sugars work better with organics because of the microherd.

For the last time...No.

They can directly uptake sugars themselves (although the sugars are ALSO food for your microorganisms).