Tea Recipe

click80 · May 10, 2012

I think it has to do with having a brewer that is dialed in and knowing how batch culture brewing in microbiology works. Bacteria have a Lag phase, that's where they are adapting to the environment they are waking up in and starting to produce enzymes to utilize what food sources are available, after the lag phase then they go into the exponential growth phase, which is exactly that, they divide exponentially until either food sources become a limiting factor or waste products accumulate to again be a limiting factor and there are other ones too, like CO2 is also produced and will reduce O2 levels if I remember right. Anyway, I am assuming you mean the kits that come with everything in them, Microbes, Food, and the specific design brewer. It is a matter of them (if they are a reputable source) having had tests done with all their stuff combined and knowing when the specific phases of Batch Culture are ideal for their setup.

Watch out there are a bunch of bad people out there selling bullshit.

I am for now sticking with Cap's Bennies and the bubbler bucket method.

I guess I sound like a shill for Cap...lol...but I just have been doing a whole lot of reading on all this lately and know that Cap's stuff has so many more microbes that you can get great results without having to have a Vortex brewer or anything more than a bucket and airstone.

Disambiguator · May 11, 2012

click80 said:
It seems the in the commercial AG trade High Brix is commonly used to describe Molasses. Generic type term maybe?

I assume that it means to commercial farmers who use it in feed that it meets USDA standards. I found that exact info you quoted posted in so many places that I would be surprised at any commercial farmers that were not sure what it means. The info you provided, when used also referenced a specific USDA standard.

All that means absolutely nothing to me as I know that within the context of MMJ horticulture I would not confuse the term High Brix when used to describe Molasses with High Brix in relation to plant tissue measurements.

To Organic gardeners/farmers this designation could have a different meaning altogether, although EJ does not make the distinction, maybe their customer base is such that they don't feel the need to make a long distinction and/or definition. Costs money to print stuff on products.

I found this info, also used/cited in a lot of websites where Molasses was being defined within the context of Organic horticulture.

There is no distinction between a commercial farmer, an organic grower or an mmj grower regarding the brix measurement of molasses. Brix is an objective measurement.

Does anyone know the brix of EJ's High Brix molasses so that we can make some comparisons?

click80 said:
Hydro Organics who makes Earth Juice is a known quantity to me because of their other products, and since someone recommended it, I used it, found several indicators of better performance in teas. That is all I meant originally, no matter how crudely I put it, the name of it was just that, a name. If I happened to imply that High Brix meant anything significant...well, my bad. It just happens to be the name of it.

I also know now that EJ's HB Molasses comes from Sugar Cane extraction, which in my opinion, for a few different reasons, is better for stimulating microbiological activity. But there are plenty of other places to obtain Sugar Cane extracted HTM molasses. Right now I am going to stick with what provides consistent results in my teas which is the EJ High Brix.

EJ's Meta-K is another example of their excellent product line but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a no brainer for a grower. By purchasing a 50# bag of soluble potassium sulfate, a grower will be paying pennies on the gallon instead of dollars for the exact same product.
EJ has been one of my favorite product lines for years, but they're currently going through changes, introducing new A/B formula products w/ feeding schedules that will be nothing if not more expensive to the grower.
I'm not trying to put down EJ, Meta-K, or their High Brix molasses. I'm just trying to tease out some info that will be useful and beneficial for us, the growers. Ideally, we can work together on this in a cooperative effort.

FWIW I jumped on Capulator's bandwagon when he first started out over a year ago and have directed a fair amount of business his way. (not that he needs my help). As I recall, I had to wait for his second order to come in. The new packaging looks cool, but I'll miss the zip-locks w/ his handwriting. lol

outwest · May 11, 2012

Disambiguator said:
FWIW I jumped on Capulator's bandwagon when he first started out over a year ago and have directed a fair amount of business his way. (not that he needs my help). As I recall, I had to wait for his second order to come in. The new packaging looks cool, but I'll miss the zip-locks w/ his handwriting. lol

I second that. I think I got some of the last paks with his handwritten labels. The shit rocks.

outwest

Dunge · May 11, 2012

This thread seems a congenial group, so I will admit my ignorance and welcome criticism.

On more than one occasion a large percentage of my herd were motile.
What could be the cause of this?
Is it a good thing?
And why can't I reproduce it at will?

I have a short list of inoculates, but my record keeping is sloppy (non existent).

I have a suitable microscope and a hemocytometer slide that allows me to regard known volumes of fluid over an etched grid.

Have only been actively brewing for a few months.

I brew one gallon of alfalfa tea in a bucket with one air stone.

Just a dab of molasses daily for three days.

I have thrown all known inoculates in there and can't get any of them to start thrashing about.

Is it wrong of me to want my herd to swim?
Makes it more fun to spy on.

outwest · May 11, 2012

I take a way more ignorant approach to all of this. I brew my tea, feed it to my plants, and if they look healthy as shit (fortunately they do), I assume it is working. Ignorance is bliss!

outwest

Capulator · May 11, 2012

Dunge said:
This thread seems a congenial group, so I will admit my ignorance and welcome criticism.

On more than one occasion a large percentage of my herd were motile.
What could be the cause of this?
Is it a good thing?
And why can't I reproduce it at will?

I have a short list of inoculates, but my record keeping is sloppy (non existent).

I have a suitable microscope and a hemocytometer slide that allows me to regard known volumes of fluid over an etched grid.

Have only been actively brewing for a few months.

I brew one gallon of alfalfa tea in a bucket with one air stone.

Just a dab of molasses daily for three days.

I have thrown all known inoculates in there and can't get any of them to start thrashing about.

Is it wrong of me to want my herd to swim?
Makes it more fun to spy on.

Motile: Moving or having the power to move spontaneously

What do you mean what is the cause of this? I would say that if they are moving, they are alive.

By innoculates, what do you mean?

Are you just using molasses and alfalfa with no bennies?

I take the exact same approach as outwest, although I did scope the bennies on several occasions and I am amazed at the life going on in there.

Dunge · May 11, 2012

Capulator said:
By innoculates, what do you mean?

Are you just using molasses and alfalfa with no bennies?

By Innoculates I mean bennificial micro organisms.(AKA bennies)

My tea is thick with what look like bacteria and yeast based on their size and shape.
I believe I remember learning that some bacteria can develop flagella.
If so, how might I induce motility?
I intend to keep trying as my girls are drinking this stuff up, and it makes them all giggly.

Capulator · May 11, 2012

Mine move all over the place. Some are super fast.

Disambiguator · May 12, 2012

My molasses has a higher brix than EJ's high brix molasses at 1/3 the cost.
My critters look like they're at a rave when my teas are at an optimum temperature.
My microscope and DO meter are collecting dust, but they were helpful when I was originally dialing in my tea recipe formulas.
Ignorance is bliss when there is harmony in the garden.
My schedule is inducing motility, ATM.
hehe

Capulator · May 12, 2012

Disambiguator said:
My molasses has a higher brix than EJ's high brix molasses at 1/3 the cost.
My critters look like they're at a rave when my teas are at an optimum temperature.
My microscope and DO meter are collecting dust, but they were helpful when I was originally dialing in my tea recipe formulas.
Ignorance is bliss when there is harmony in the garden.
My schedule is inducing motility, ATM.
hehe

What molasses are you using? Care to share?

outwest · May 12, 2012

Cap, you are a man of many avatars. I have to admit the ski-jacket funky mask dude was starting to freak me out. ;)

I've been using Bountea's powdered molasses (they call it bio-activator), it has yucca and a few other things in it. It's expensive as crap, but I got it pretty cheap. Would not buy it again, but will stick with the powdered form. Most feed stores carry it.

outwest

tconch · May 12, 2012

outwest said:
Cap, you are a man of many avatars. I have to admit the ski-jacket funky mask dude was starting to freak me out. ;)

I've been using Bountea's powdered molasses (they call it bio-activator), it has yucca and a few other things in it. It's expensive as crap, but I got it pretty cheap. Would not buy it again, but will stick with the powdered form. Most feed stores carry it.

outwest

cap was that yore head with the hair cut? thought that was pretty neat idea

click80 · May 12, 2012

Disambiguator said:
My molasses has a higher brix than EJ's high brix molasses at 1/3 the cost.
My critters look like they're at a rave when my teas are at an optimum temperature.
My microscope and DO meter are collecting dust, but they were helpful when I was originally dialing in my tea recipe formulas.
Ignorance is bliss when there is harmony in the garden.
My schedule is inducing motility, ATM.
hehe

I have read in the past all the excitement on Brix and when I looked into it I found that to me Brix does have different contexts, such as when measure Petiole vs Leaf, or for the Vintners they have to take alcohol into account and use different (tables?) conversions for Refractive Index. Anyway, this is just my opinion, and I don't even have one (meter) I will definitely get a good 'scope first, I have a friend that brings his over and it never seems to be really worth the trouble. To me anyway, he gets off on using it.

And Hydro Organics finally emailed me, I asked them what was in their stuff, so they finally emailed me back I have included that at the bottom, I had to cut out my email addy and some other stuff like my sig but the complete reply from EJ in there. Whoever wrote it seems to be pretty cool.

First I wanted to paste a title and a link to an article with a little info that originally made me question the accuracy of Brix measurements and how accurate they could be when there are so many variables. So this is the article I read that made my mind up about the whole Brix Gardening methodology , well how about the title and a link. Anyway it's like you said, we are here to put some info out there and see if it helps us.

Building a House of Straw -- With Brix

Hydro-Organics Info Desk

10:10 AM (5 hours ago)

to me

I apologize for the delay in responding. We are having difficulties in keeping up with the flood of e mails.

In the world of molasses traders it refers to a type of molasses with the higher or highest sugar content. Hi-Brix is also a very raw form of molasses, ours is always first run, and is referred to as HTM.
We source through sugar mills that rely on specific testing methods as we also use HBx in house. Not only do we use HBx in it's raw state in many products, we also use it our enzyme reactors to split proteins to create free amino acids to create our own natural chelates & other goodies which we also include in many of our products. I cannot tell you some of the specifics you asked, but I can say that we do not use Refractometer, as they are not precise enough for our reactors, we use NIR (Near Infra Red) so we get a complete sugar profile, not just Sucrose and Total inverts. Our Brix is minimum 85.
Many high quality off the shelf molasses will work in the teas, just use a little more. Recommend to increase the rate by maybe a 1/3 to double
of what you would use for Hi-Brix MFP.

For a bunch of tea recipes that we have collected please click on the following link:

http://www.hydro-organics.com/home/index.php?categoryID=574

One item we suggest for all teas is Bio-Zeus.
And of course please always include Catalyst. When using Catalyst with Hi-Brix, to save a little, you can use it
at the about half the mild rate or 1/4-1/2 teaspoon per gallon.

Thank you for contacting "EJ"

click80 · May 12, 2012

outwest said:
Cap, you are a man of many avatars. I have to admit the ski-jacket funky mask dude was starting to freak me out. ;)

I've been using Bountea's powdered molasses (they call it bio-activator), it has yucca and a few other things in it. It's expensive as crap, but I got it pretty cheap. Would not buy it again, but will stick with the powdered form. Most feed stores carry it.

outwest

Yeah I liked it to, still have a little left for nostalgic purposes right now... I read that Yucca has some benefits other than just being a surfactant, I think that the saponins can help regulate microbial growth by having some antiprotazoan activity. So maybe the helps even the populations out a little? Also the saponins have other effects on enhancing microbial culture by, I think I rememeber it having an amino called Proline maybe?

Here is one study/experiment that showed specific effects of a product called Breakdown that contains 20% yucca shidigera.
http://www.benedaniels.com/Breakdown/Breakdown4.pdf

and another from a book, I didn't refresh my memory, I had this one bookmarked.....
http://books.google.com/books?id=F5...onepage&q=yucca saponins and microbes&f=false

Medijuana · May 13, 2012

Hey Cap, I have a request:

Not that I didn't learn a lot reading through 13 pages of posts, but can you please update your original post regarding the tea use on soil? I brewed some AACT with your bennies that just finished this morning. As I was finishing my morning coffee while browsing the Farm, I noticed I missed the part where you talk about diluting the tea prior to adding to a res. However, there's nothing in your first post that specifically refers to the tea application to soil, and I freaked out a bit thinking I overdosed my ladies with full-strength tea (I know tea can't really hurt the plants, but I've never used bennies as an inoculation before, only finished compost). After reading through this thread, I'm definitely feeling better that I didn't hurt the plants, but I think that having the info up front will help a lot of the farmers here, especially the soil-growers since there's nothing really specifically mentioned about soil application anyway.

Thanks Cap!

socalval · May 13, 2012

Hey Cap is e-bay the only place i can order from ? idk if i could grab a pack at avalon with some A1. Im a soil grower as well .I didnt read all 13 pages . I just know get some of caps bennies , brew and your plants will love you for it .

Capulator · May 13, 2012

socalval said:
Hey Cap is e-bay the only place i can order from ? idk if i could grab a pack at avalon with some A1. Im a soil grower as well .I didnt read all 13 pages . I just know get some of caps bennies , brew and your plants will love you for it .

Only other way is to send me cash.

Medijuana said:
Hey Cap, I have a request:

Not that I didn't learn a lot reading through 13 pages of posts, but can you please update your original post regarding the tea use on soil? I brewed some AACT with your bennies that just finished this morning. As I was finishing my morning coffee while browsing the Farm, I noticed I missed the part where you talk about diluting the tea prior to adding to a res. However, there's nothing in your first post that specifically refers to the tea application to soil, and I freaked out a bit thinking I overdosed my ladies with full-strength tea (I know tea can't really hurt the plants, but I've never used bennies as an inoculation before, only finished compost). After reading through this thread, I'm definitely feeling better that I didn't hurt the plants, but I think that having the info up front will help a lot of the farmers here, especially the soil-growers since there's nothing really specifically mentioned about soil application anyway.

Thanks Cap!

Sure thing.

You cannot overdose.

General rule is 2 cups per 5 gallons of tea to water. You can use more. For foliar tea if you have a bug problem, I find it is best to use concentrated tea (no diluting).

The nute pack is best mixed in with the soil at roughly 1/2 tsp / gal (your discretion) of container size. However, some people also incorporate it in to the tea which is fine. It will still work this way. Keep in mind that the mychorrhizae need to be in the presence of a plant root in order to come out of stasis, so when they are in the tea they will be doing pretty much nothing. However, the nute pack also has azospirillum, frateuria, etc. so there are other bennies in there besides just the mycos that will be effective when using the tea.Right now, the myco concentration is 100 spores per gram of each of the 4 different endos that are in there. that is the highest concentration I know of that is sold in the store. I believe other companies claim the highest, but they only have 80 spores per gram and only one type of endo.

Also, the nute pack is not so hot with pure hydro (UC, NFT, Aero, etc), because research shows that mychorrhizae may drain the plant of vital carbon if there is nothing for them to process and the plant has all the nutes it needs in available form. That is why I recommend the root and foliar packs for hydro, and all three for soil and coco.

There is no hard fast rule and the instructions are there to help as a base starting point. Like many things it is best to work with the product for a while and try out different things to find what suits you, your plants, and your budget.

Personally, I apply the root and foliar tea 1x per week. I add it to the res at 1 cup/ 5 gal, but now I am also using the concentrate as a top drench. like 1 cup per plant site which for me is about a gallon size container. I am very religious when it comes to adding it to the res, and I find myself using the concentrate if I see a fungus gnat or on newly rooted cuts.

Hope this helps,

-Cap

Disambiguator · May 14, 2012

I read the article, “Building a House of Straw -- With Brix!” when it first made the rounds which, not coincidentally, was in the same time frame that the carbo loading craze was in full swing and growers were making dubious claims about everything brix- from Coca-Cola to Kool-Aid flavored bud. The author never fully explains what he means by the term “gardening by brix’ and his arguments are fraught w/ holes, inconsistencies and vagary:

“molasses doesn’t seem to show that it can do much to increase brix.”
“...as I mentioned earlier, any dissolved solid, not just sugar, can alter measurements... But the dominant thing affecting the brix measurement is usually sugar content.”
“the idea that eating a food with a higher brix reading means that you’re eating a healthier food is just silly.”

I could go on w/ the problems w/ his thesis, but taking brix readings of living tissue as a guide to plant health is not the topic we are discussing.
__________________
Sugar cane is extracted, the syrup is reduced by boiling, crystalized and centrifuged (or chemically activated) to separate inverted sugar (sucrose) from the plant residue. The mother liquor left behind is reprocessed 3 times to remove additional sugar. (A-, B-, C-product) A-product is first w/ the highest sugar content and, C-product, blackstrap molasses, has the highest mineral and vitamin content. Brix is the measure of the specific gravity (relative density) of the combined sugar and dry matter of molasses.

The majority of molasses produced goes to the cattle, swine or poultry feed markets. The American Society of Feed Control Officials (ASFCO) established guidelines to give livestock producers a standard reference point to work w/ when calculating their feed regimen. The AFSCO definition and molasses industry standard is:
“A63.7 Cane molasses is a by-product of the manufacture of sucrose from sugar cane. It must contain not less than 43% total sugars expressed as invert. If its moisture content exceeds 27%, its density determined by double dilution must not be less than 79.50 Brix.”

As you can see, brix is only one of three variables to consider when evaluating molasses. Also note that 79.50 is a minimum standard and that feed molasses w/ and 80.00 brix (0.5+ sluff factor) is more common than not.

Brix is a measure of the specific gravity of a liquid. Molasses uses water as a solvent. Water has a specific gravity of 1.00. Alcohol has a specific gravity lower than 1.00 and it floats. Lead has a specific gravity that is heavier than water and it sinks.

A molasses w/ a 79.50 brix has a specific gravity of 1.41 which can be expressed in weight- 11.75 lbs. per gallon. If a gallon of molasses weighs 12 pounds, the brix will be higher than 79.50 and conversely, an 11 pound gallon of molasses will have a brix that is below 79.50.

I use powdered molasses and organic cane sugar (sucanet) in different molasses:sucrose ratios and different densities (brix) according to the stage of plant development.

Capulator · May 16, 2012

Disambiguator said:
I read the article, “Building a House of Straw -- With Brix!” when it first made the rounds which, not coincidentally, was in the same time frame that the carbo loading craze was in full swing and growers were making dubious claims about everything brix- from Coca-Cola to Kool-Aid flavored bud. The author never fully explains what he means by the term “gardening by brix’ and his arguments are fraught w/ holes, inconsistencies and vagary:

“molasses doesn’t seem to show that it can do much to increase brix.”
“...as I mentioned earlier, any dissolved solid, not just sugar, can alter measurements... But the dominant thing affecting the brix measurement is usually sugar content.”
“the idea that eating a food with a higher brix reading means that you’re eating a healthier food is just silly.”

I could go on w/ the problems w/ his thesis, but taking brix readings of living tissue as a guide to plant health is not the topic we are discussing.
__________________
Sugar cane is extracted, the syrup is reduced by boiling, crystalized and centrifuged (or chemically activated) to separate inverted sugar (sucrose) from the plant residue. The mother liquor left behind is reprocessed 3 times to remove additional sugar. (A-, B-, C-product) A-product is first w/ the highest sugar content and, C-product, blackstrap molasses, has the highest mineral and vitamin content. Brix is the measure of the specific gravity (relative density) of the combined sugar and dry matter of molasses.

The majority of molasses produced goes to the cattle, swine or poultry feed markets. The American Society of Feed Control Officials (ASFCO) established guidelines to give livestock producers a standard reference point to work w/ when calculating their feed regimen. The AFSCO definition and molasses industry standard is:
“A63.7 Cane molasses is a by-product of the manufacture of sucrose from sugar cane. It must contain not less than 43% total sugars expressed as invert. If its moisture content exceeds 27%, its density determined by double dilution must not be less than 79.50 Brix.”

As you can see, brix is only one of three variables to consider when evaluating molasses. Also note that 79.50 is a minimum standard and that feed molasses w/ and 80.00 brix (0.5+ sluff factor) is more common than not.

Brix is a measure of the specific gravity of a liquid. Molasses uses water as a solvent. Water has a specific gravity of 1.00. Alcohol has a specific gravity lower than 1.00 and it floats. Lead has a specific gravity that is heavier than water and it sinks.

A molasses w/ a 79.50 brix has a specific gravity of 1.41 which can be expressed in weight- 11.75 lbs. per gallon. If a gallon of molasses weighs 12 pounds, the brix will be higher than 79.50 and conversely, an 11 pound gallon of molasses will have a brix that is below 79.50.

I use powdered molasses and organic cane sugar (sucanet) in different molasses:sucrose ratios and different densities (brix) according to the stage of plant development.

It would be epic if someday you could post your recipes and at what stage you apply each one.

Disambiguator · May 16, 2012

Capulator said:
What molasses are you using? Care to share?

Capulator said:
It would be epic if someday you could post your recipes and at what stage you apply each one.

Hey Cap, if you want epic ^^ I’ll pull out the directors cut. lol
My only interest here is to help out other MMJ growers and vice versa.

Molasses--
In short, 79.50 brix molasses costs $4.50 - $6.00/ gal. Powdered molasses reconstituted to 79.50 brix is slightly more. Sucanat (approx $5/lb) is processed from organically grown sugar cane and can be added to molasses to increase sugar content (and brix.) Understand what you are getting. Do the math. Make a decision.

Not to be coy, but my tea recipes are so thoroughly entwined w/ the constituents in my soil mix and feeding program, they would be of little use w/o going into a long dissertation so I’ll just share a few general thoughts. I was a landscape designer working w/ organic principles for 20 years before I went into indoor mj cultivation so I’ve been at this for awhile. My first laughable effort at a compost tea consisted of a 5 gallon bucket of water, a handful of bat guano, (which was considered exotic at the time) and a stick. I was first introduced to DO readings by a reefer who was brought in to do his thing w/ a koi pond that was part of one of my projects. Mycorrhizae was a new word to many horticulturists, considered experimental and only obtainable from mushroom growers in "everything but the kitchen" sink mixes. (diversity can mean, among other things, not knowing exactly what does what so it's best to cover all of the bases.)

At times, having the ability to pick and choose select, specialized EMs and endos for my teas and soil inoculations is about as surreal to me as being able to grow marijuana legally.

The tea recipes that I’ve seen here are pretty solid and the materials are spot on.

My main area of interest is bio-fermentation, (a redundant term, IMO) or ag-fermentation, (my term that nobody uses.) There are some very exciting things happening in that arena that might be worth a look, including specialized microbes (hint, hint) I see a future where ACT and fermentation stations will be sitting side by side, but I don't have a crystal ball.

Tea Recipe

Tea Recipe

click80

Disambiguator

outwest

Premium Gardener

Dunge

outwest

Premium Gardener

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Dunge

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Disambiguator

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

outwest

Premium Gardener

tconch

click80

click80

Medijuana

socalval

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Disambiguator

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Disambiguator

Tea Recipe

Tea Recipe

click80

Disambiguator

outwest

Premium Gardener

Dunge

outwest

Premium Gardener

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Dunge

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Disambiguator

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

outwest

Premium Gardener

tconch

click80

click80

Medijuana

socalval

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Disambiguator

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Disambiguator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency