fishwhistle said:

So basically new jersey gangsters have ALOT in common with cali dispensaries,brother from another mother so to speak...

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yes except they have a legitimate reason weed has not been part of the economy and over looked by police since 1995 , here a seed gets you a night or a few hours in the holding cell , followed by inflated court cost to keep the budget going , on the other hand cali disp are just being greedy , there is a difference between greed and ignorance....

soserthc1 said:

bowing out ..... good luck i'm just gonna grow dank ass weed and call it what the seeds say for know on and let the this is that stuff alone , if it gets me blasted its good in my book ... somehow i don't believe there is a correct answer to this and by no means do I know it.... or maybe ill make soser og kush

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It's been my goal to find a unique 100% Indica phenotype (Afghani origin most likely). I have a couple phenotypes now in a green house so Chobbles OG may be coming around sooner then later.

Also I dont think people should use the OG Kush name if it isn't actually a kush.

I have a lot of respect for you though soser, I've seen you around these parts for a long time Good luck man :D

sanvanalona said:

thanks for the honest answer and it was what i suspected, more or less. I think that in order to have different "phenos" that would mean that there was an actual cross with a mother and a father and some phenos lean mom and others lean toward the dad or outliers that would resemble lineage further back. You see og was never created this way, I live very close to Lake Tahoe and was lucky enough to start smoking og in 04. This is a very distinct strain with a very unique growing pattern. I am very aware that people have basterdized it by now, especially with the hermie seeds but I think to say there are phenotypic expressions within the og is wrong. I also would not take anyone willing to name the og after themselves too seriously, they know the truth of weather they got an s1 or an accidental cross.

heirloom strains?????????/ i am very curious please enlighten me if possible

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Now are you referring to the lemony OG Kush that I can smell out of a bag anywhere? Thats what I think of as OG Kush, The smell is really distinct. I know I grew Larrys OG(Indoor) and some OG from Garberville, California that was climatized for the outdoors. Both Cuts yielded dense OG Nugs with a potent lemon vest.

As for the Heirloom strains, If you've ever ordered Tomato seeds you have probably noticed Heirloom varieties. A lot of people don't know what that refers to. Generally they have some odd trait that a farmer bred out of them by carefully selecting seeds from his fields over multiple seasons(Generally 20+ Years)

These varieties have been grown in the SC Mountains for 40 years now. 35 on the same hillside each generation. They produce rock hard buds, unbeatable trichome counts, and potency out of this world. We have a landrace Purple Indica and an African Sativa. We also grow hybrids of both.

We Start 800 Seedlings every spring of the variety, Pick the best 200-400 depending on how many we plant (This summer I did a large CBD Field so we had less THC Dom plants). The weak are weeded out in the first months of spring, The strongest are then selected for planting. We then watch them all carefully for desirable traits. We also keep five of the most vigorous males. Its breeding at it's finest.

The plants yield from 10-15 pounds each the sativa's reaching 15' and the tallest indica was 9'. They plants are phenomenal and honestly anyone growing outdoors should say fuck it to buying from seed companies and find a grower near them that does this. You will be very happy with the results, Cannabis really responds to its environment. A lot of Indoors do shitty here on the coast, but with good variety's we have phenomenal yields.

I got you sose,i was just referring to the fact that neither one seems to know/care what they are selling,they just care about the benjamins they get from it.

Chobble said:

Also I dont think people should use the OG Kush name if it isn't actually a kush.

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There is actually no kush in og, not at all. The og is a skunky, lemony, funk but no kush. Afpak, "so cal masters", bubba, purple all have kush in them but og does not.

Chobble said:

Now are you referring to the lemony OG Kush that I can smell out of a bag anywhere? Thats what I think of as OG Kush, The smell is really distinct. I know I grew Larrys OG(Indoor) and some OG from Garberville, California that was climatized for the outdoors. Both Cuts yielded dense OG Nugs with a potent lemon vest.

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Yes Og totally smells lemony and fuely.....really wonderful stuff.
[/quote]

Chobble said:

It's been my goal to find a unique 100% Indica phenotype (Afghani origin most likely). I have a couple phenotypes now in a green house so Chobbles OG may be coming around sooner then later.

Also I dont think people should use the OG Kush name if it isn't actually a kush.

I have a lot of respect for you though soser, I've seen you around these parts for a long time Good luck man :D



Now are you referring to the lemony OG Kush that I can smell out of a bag anywhere? Thats what I think of as OG Kush, The smell is really distinct. I know I grew Larrys OG(Indoor) and some OG from Garberville, California that was climatized for the outdoors. Both Cuts yielded dense OG Nugs with a potent lemon vest.

As for the Heirloom strains, If you've ever ordered Tomato seeds you have probably noticed Heirloom varieties. A lot of people don't know what that refers to. Generally they have some odd trait that a farmer bred out of them by carefully selecting seeds from his fields over multiple seasons(Generally 20+ Years)

These varieties have been grown in the SC Mountains for 40 years now. 35 on the same hillside each generation. They produce rock hard buds, unbeatable trichome counts, and potency out of this world. We have a landrace Purple Indica and an African Sativa. We also grow hybrids of both.

We Start 800 Seedlings every spring of the variety, Pick the best 200-400 depending on how many we plant (This summer I did a large CBD Field so we had less THC Dom plants). The weak are weeded out in the first months of spring, The strongest are then selected for planting. We then watch them all carefully for desirable traits. We also keep five of the most vigorous males. Its breeding at it's finest.

The plants yield from 10-15 pounds each the sativa's reaching 15' and the tallest indica was 9'. They plants are phenomenal and honestly anyone growing outdoors should say fuck it to buying from seed companies and find a grower near them that does this. You will be very happy with the results, Cannabis really responds to its environment. A lot of Indoors do shitty here on the coast, but with good variety's we have phenomenal yields.

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Thank you chobble much appreciate the respect comment and same to you , your wisdom and cannabis knowledge is extremely impressive for only a 19 year old , I can see you doing great things for this plant in the future ....... Blessings SoSer

fishwhistle said:

I got you sose,i was just referring to the fact that neither one seems to know/care what they are selling,they just care about the benjamins they get from it.

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interesting thought considering i just changed my signature today to kinda reflect the same thinking .... its good fish , I find these kind of discussion's very interesting , just hate when they turn to arguments as I am not here to argue (Just saying my feelings by no means am i saying you are arguing with anyone) ...... peace soser

Just popping in to say I agree with sanvanalona.

I think this is really just a misunderstanding, though.


The problem is that naming conventions in cannabis industry/culture are FUCKING TERRIBLE. so it's neither of your fault.

Really, you guys are lucky--were you from Illinois (as I am) you'd have been dealing with people just making fucking names up to sell more bud for most of your adult life.


The "original" OG was/is clone only if I'm not mistaken.

What that means is that, if its not the original cut--it's not OG, it's just been called that. It could be that it's a derivative of this original cut, OR that it's a new cut entirely with a similar phenotype (not unheard of).

Here's a big problem with the naming convention:

1. When breeding/testing is complete on a batch of seeds the "strain" is given a name. FPOG for example.

2. If there should so happen to be a phenotype that presents from the FPOG stock that is different in morphology enough from other FPOG progeny to warrant preserving the cut--often this cut will be given its OWN name (i.e. a new strain--Sour Patch Pebbles, for instance, I think has come up on this board somewhere).

In reality, the mistake is in number 1--if we apply the same naming convention as the rest of science (and botany--for that matter).

A "strain" scientifically speaking usually refers to an individual or a group of genetically identical individuals. For instance, when a strain deficient in a specific protein is created to tease out the function of that protein--the "strain" refers to a specific individual with a discrete and singular genetic identity.


More appropriately, we should call FPOG seeds "FPOG stock" rather than the "FPOG strain"--because the strains themselves, if we follow the convention of science, will be the genetically distinct individuals that grow from these seeds.

The water gets muddier when we start to talk about phenotypes that can be expected from a certain "stock" (i.e. the fruity pebble phenotype from the FPOG stock). While this doesn't fit the "genetically distinct" marker--what it does follow is a morphologically and phenotypically distinct marker, that can be attributed to a "strain".

Kush smell lends itself well to this. Because Kush is in so many varieties, and because we can identify the smell so readily, it is easy to identify kush strains as such.

What's important to remember is that even if all Kush's do not come from the same progenitors--they DO share similar genetic makeup, at least in part. The proof is in your nose.

The same thing could be happening here. You have genetic similarities, but not "shared" genetics.

Just replace "blue eyes" with "kush smell" or "OG smell".

We don't say that everyone with blue eyes is of the same "strain", and we wouldn't say that even if we did discuss "strains" of humans. What we would say is that there is a phenotypical/morphological similarity. We can even identify a shared mutation, or a shared genetic sequence--but it is not necessary for these to originate from the same place.

Mutations can and do happen in the same place--it is DEFINITELY not a random process always. Research has shown that each genome has regions which are more prone to mutation--and I'm personally aware of at least 5 different markers for this type of predisposition which have been elucidated, there are very likely more.


End of the day, neither of you can be said to be 100% correct--because there is no 100% accepted method for naming these things, and even the general rule of thumb that 80% of people follow (as outlined above) is quite flawed in terms of its organizational acuity.

I don't think this comes from people's failure to identify this as an issue early on, but rather that its a consequence of seed mills attempts to capitalize on this industry. People want "the best strain" and the seed mills are all to happy to promise you that--the only problem is that they can't, scientifically speaking, deliver that to you.

If we were trying to breed a mutant for a study, we'd keep painstaking track of parent stock--and we'd give each phenotype an individual name which would be considered the "strain". That name would be unique for all time to that one individual genome, never to be given to another creature again.

This is really why it becomes important to keep track of parent stock, and genetic crossing--because what we're ultimately judging is not a "strain" but the strength of a given set of pregenitors' offspring (and then each resulting phenotype separately).

Squiggly what other way is there to prevent calmag def in og's? For instance is there something we can give the plant in order for it to provide the calmag, for itself,the way plants make there own glucose and excrete it too feed the bacteria in the roots or the way the plant makes its own vit b
And so forth?

caveman4.20 said:

Squiggly what other way is there to prevent calmag def in og's? For instance is there something we can give the plant in order for it to provide the calmag, for itself,the way plants make there own glucose and excrete it too feed the bacteria in the roots or the way the plant makes its own vit b
And so forth?

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Glucose and Vitamin B are molecules. Calcium and Magnesium are elements.

Unless cannabis has evolved a particle accelerator organ while I wasn't looking, no--the plant can't make these.

Got it...

Chobble said:

I've grown multiple OG's and they've been quite different phenotypes. If they where all cuts from the same plant they would be identical.

Oo and let me define theory: "Theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking. Depending on the context, the results might for example include generalized explanations of how nature works, or even how divine or metaphysical matters are thought to work. "

Your theory is a theory because you are saying that there is one OG Kush. It is unproven and has no evidence. A lot of people know that OG kush came from one of Chems cut; What I'm saying though is that other people have created OG Kush's from a special cut in their arsenal. It really isn't that foreign of an Idea.

I met Loompa and Ken Estes at the SF Cannabis cup. One of the questions I asked them was how they got their OG Kush's. They where found much like how Chem found his, Growing multiple seedlings and Phenotyping. The Same way GDP was created.

Chobble.

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If im not mistaken loompa received the hb as a cut

Chobble said:

I'm 19. A botany student in Santa Cruz, California. I've been growing for 3 and a half years. I post my backyard grow to share experience I have with others and pick the brains of other skilled cultivators.

I publish a small "newsletter" from the collective I work for as their garden manager handling our mothers and propagation. It doesnt let me add anymore people to the current conversation but I can see about getting you on a second one. Our Master Gardener has his Masters in Botany and has been growing for 35+ Years along with that one of our Board of directors is a Botany professor who has dont so much cannabis related research its not even funny. I put more stock into the science of it. I dont post pictures as I know the owners frown on sites like this(I dont quite understand it but oh well). We only grow our small variety of hierloom strains.

Over the years of volunteering and then getting hired on. I have been educated with more information on our lovely plant then I will probably learn through the rest of my years.

Those heirloom strains beat any OG I have smoked.

I have received archives of Overgrow and read threw all the threads intensely as a lot of good knowledge was lost when the site went down.

Yes their can be more then one OG Kush. I can pick out Larrys OG Kush from Ken Este's OG. They are distinct phenotypes.

I'm just saying that other people developed strains using the OG name, whether its for marketing or not we have to accept that and move on.

Chobble

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Then you haven't smoked the right og's , Id love to see how your heirloom strains smoke compared to loompas hb or the triangle kush

Yes, yes, far too much b.s. in this name game business, which brings me to a question for you guys out there. I just bought a gram of girl scout cookies yesterday as I had to take a friend to Oakland for a flight, well on the way home I found a seed in the G.S.C., which tasted amazing by the way. So now can I call what comes out of this most likely herm seed sanvanalona's cookies? Should I start a seed company calling it Sans gsc? Maybe herm it out and cross everything available with it, or just use a weak afghani male cross it with the gsc and then find a male that is "close" and then start crossing everything with this male? Sans cookies X dr. wonkas triple platinum charlie sheen kobe bryant og? Or maybe Sans cookies X aj's diesel? Finding a seed or receiving a clone does not make a breeder, and unfortunately for all of us og was never really bred.

sanvanalona said:

Yes, yes, far too much b.s. in this name game business, which brings me to a question for you guys out there. I just bought a gram of girl scout cookies yesterday as I had to take a friend to Oakland for a flight, well on the way home I found a seed in the G.S.C., which tasted amazing by the way. So now can I call what comes out of this most likely herm seed sanvanalona's cookies? Should I start a seed company calling it Sans gsc? Maybe herm it out and cross everything available with it, or just use a weak afghani male cross it with the gsc and then find a male that is "close" and then start crossing everything with this male? Sans cookies X dr. wonkas triple platinum charlie sheen kobe bryant og? Or maybe Sans cookies X aj's diesel? Finding a seed or receiving a clone does not make a breeder, and unfortunately for all of us og was never really bred.

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naw , just send that seed to me , you don't need all the headache's lol..... pretty much if it expresses a different or slightly different pheno than the original weed it came from , yea that is what is pretty much being done .... sanvanalona cookie's in to long though- pecan san's

soserthc1 said:

naw , just send that seed to me , you don't need all the headache's lol..... pretty much if it expresses a different or slightly different pheno than the original weed it came from , yea that is what is pretty much being done .... sanvanalona cookie's in to long though- pecan san's

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That is awesome soser......pecan sans 2013!!!!hahaha

Venom818 said:

Then you haven't smoked the right og's , Id love to see how your heirloom strains smoke compared to loompas hb or the triangle kush

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I got 13 Samples of different OG's at the Cannabis Cup... They where all exceptionally grown. Probably the best samples I've ever gotten to be honest. While they where good, they weren't as good as our Hierlooms.

Some High Times folks actually gave us some sample seeds of Triangle Kush. It grew alright etc but the yield and potency where still nothing compared to the Hierloom Purple Indica. What you have to understand is this is the Lifetime work of a Master Gardener who's on the same level in the cannabis world as people Like SubCool or Jorge Cervantes(Good Old Jorge is a debatable "Master Gardener" but yeah...).

I will say that Loompa's Headband is my favorite strain; Not the OG Kush that was bred into it though.

Chobble

sanvanalona said:

There is actually no kush in og, not at all. The og is a skunky, lemony, funk but no kush. Afpak, "so cal masters", bubba, purple all have kush in them but og does not.

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I Didn't Think there was, that's why I made that statement. If anything, We should preserve the Kush name, meaning its 100% Kush, with both parents lineage being traced back to the Hindu Kush(Mt. Range not strain).

Its actually always bothered me how OG Kush is a Sativa Dominant hybrid.

I've enjoyed our back and forth,
Chobble

Chobble said:

I Didn't Think there was, that's why I made that statement. If anything, We should preserve the Kush name, meaning its 100% Kush, with both parents lineage being traced back to the Hindu Kush(Mt. Range not strain).

Its actually always bothered me how OG Kush is a Sativa Dominant hybrid.

I've enjoyed our back and forth,
Chobble

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Likewise bro. Hope you have a good day and enjoy those heirloom strains! Any roadkill skunks that your buddy is holding on to?

Chobble said:

I got 13 Samples of different OG's at the Cannabis Cup... They where all exceptionally grown. Probably the best samples I've ever gotten to be honest. While they where good, they weren't as good as our Hierlooms.

Some High Times folks actually gave us some sample seeds of Triangle Kush. It grew alright etc but the yield and potency where still nothing compared to the Hierloom Purple Indica. What you have to understand is this is the Lifetime work of a Master Gardener who's on the same level in the cannabis world as people Like SubCool or Jorge Cervantes(Good Old Jorge is a debatable "Master Gardener" but yeah...).

I will say that Loompa's Headband is my favorite strain; Not the OG Kush that was bred into it though.

Chobble

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Its just called loompas hb there is no hb in it at all , and im wondering where u got the triangle kush beans from haven't seen them ive grown alot of og's in my time and those 2 stand above the rest of the ogs i have grown.like i said would love to compare your heirlooms to the triangle or loompas hb might have that master grower rethinking what the fuck ges been doing for the last 35 years lol



Heads up hightimes is a joke tried subcool strains before he breeds more for taste than potency , and idk wtf cervates is doing

Venom818 said:

like i said would love to compare your heirlooms to the triangle or loompas hb might have that master grower rethinking what the fuck ges been doing for the last 35 years lol

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Then again, the kids who have only been smokin 10-15 years with low tolerances who think the "kushes" and OG's" are the most potent pot known to man may just learn something as well. :D

Thankfully >someone< is holding on tight to the past while the kiddies polypolypolyhybrid the future of these plants to the point that there are NO true kush tendencies/tastes in "kush".....just as happened with "skunk" when the cluckle/chuckleheads made it "better" and started renaming EVERY fuckin strain as "Skunk _____ or _____ Skunk" in the 80's/90's until it is now the exception, not the norm and is nothing more than a parody of it's original self.

so folks.....what will the next fad be?