There is no such thing as a "cal-mag" deficiency...

[caveman4.20]

I love the consumption part but wouldnt it be nice to have a report on combustion then inhaled?

 

[motz]

Thanks for everybodies reply already. Trying to make this as simple as possible but still have the yields,taste,smells and buzz. Currently using pro-mix in an orange bag,have a few bags of it. Seems to be a pretty descent base.Bag says sphagnum peat moss and a little lime is it. Just trying to build this up,have come across problems. Now wanting to get away from liquid ferts. Like I previously posted it has enough nutes for seedlings for about 2 weeks is it. Thank you again

 

[Seamaiden]

Excuse the ignorance @Seamaiden but what does the clay have in it. Is it a substitute for green sand?

No, clay particles are a vital part of a healthy soil. You can expect them to carry various minerals, and for those to be utilized and given back up to the plant by microbes.

Are you familiar with the term 'well mineralized soil'?

 

[PNutGallery]

In a perfect world a hydroponic base nutrient should be profiled around the starting water.

It is. Nutirent manufacturers use RO water when mixing and determining final nute profiles in they're mixes.

To be honest, as important as final harvest quality and quantity is, it befuddles me as to why so many people use tap water and also spend money on stuff to try to correct issues created by such use.

And it is a COMPLETE MYTH that if you use RO water, you must always use Cal/Mag.

And it is a COMPLETE MYTH that different MJ strains vary so wildly in their demands, that every strain needs its own mix. Sativas are differnt, but most Indica or Indica/Sativa hybrids grwo just fine in ONE well planned and implemented nute regiment, and that is MINUS any additional Cal/Mag products.

Further, Cal/Mag products aren't just Ca and Mg. There is a good amount of N in Cal/Mag, too. So much so that N toxicities are rampant in Cal/Mag gardens. Some of these toxicities are slight and go unnoticed by most on the weed forums, but they are there ...

the cal-mag craze started maybe 5-10 years ago.. I think giving your plants cal-mag can help create issues & deficiencies ,.. I never owned or used cal-mag supps in over 20years but been around enough grows and plants to say most plants don't need it as much as people think they do :blackalien:

My observations are the same. I personally pinpoint this to four major issues:

• The majority of people on the weed forums are Beginners and Intermediate level growers. No shame in that, merely an observation. So, a little blind-leading-the-blind on Cal/Mag use ...
• Botanicare's Pure Blend Pro line hit the scene big, as it was an in the bottle mostly organic nute, bringing a flood of mostly organic hydro farmers on board, and then peat/perl/vermic groweres, too. PBP comes from the factory deficient in Mg (can't remember if it was short on Ca, too). Fortunately, Botanicare was more tahn happy to sell farmers a bottle of Cal/Mag+ to fix their shitty blend ...
• RO water became popular, and it was incorrectly thrown around and accepted that you must use Cal/Mag with RO ...
• Incorrect pH level being thrown around on the weed forums, for both hydro and other soiless mediums like peat/per/ver. The significace here being that Mg uptake sucks between 5.5 and 6.0. Mg is best exchanged from about 5.0-5.5. But, 5.6 and above has been chiseled in stone as MJ's 'right' pH. A big thing on this one is a chart that I know a lot of you have seen:

That chart there? It's garbage. First of all, it doesn't work like that - a bar chart. Ionic exchange occurs at different rates at different pH. Second of all, St0ney's numbers are wrong on the Proper Range. St0ney was a mediocre (at least at the time) hydro grower. He was also a mod at the the old Hemp Cultivation forum. So, new growers see mod status and assume that equals expert grower. It doesn't. And people like to kiss mod's assess. No offense anyone.

He came up with that chart after having issues, determined to be a Mg def, which he 'cured' with epsom salts. I think he might have been using PBP, regardless, run a hydro tub at those pH levels only, and you can develop a Mg def.

That chart is all over the weed forums, and it has been for years. It sucks, has led many growers astray, is stickied everywhere, and thrown out there by people with x,xxx posts on weed forums that try to position themselves as experts.

This is a more appropriate pH chart to consult:

Take a look, on the 'soiless' chart at what is going on between 5.6-5.9 with Mg uptake. Gee, big fuggin' surprise your plants look like they are light on Mg. That's what happens when you run an incorrect, limited pH range. Further MOST weed farmers do NOT use soil. Soil has clay and sand in it, which affects ionic exchange. Things like Pro-Mix, Sunshine #4, etc., are NOT soil mixes. They are soiless mixes. A nice amount of perlite, and your 'dirt' Homer bucket grow is the SAME thing as a hand watered, drain-to-waste hydro system, and responds, very, very well to being treated with such, like fertilized with a solution in the low 5's. As the medium dries out and exchange occurs inbetween waterings, the rootzone pH will rise, allowing the plant to experience a pH down there that will drift up towards 6, and then time to water again with 10-15% runoff and a solution in the low 5's. And this is with RO wate and NO Cal/Mag crap.

People need to research this stuff a bit and STOP spreading and referring to that stupid fuggin' chart of St0ney's, 'cause it is WRONG.

Use RO water, no Cal/Mag or epsom and a decent base nute (Macro/Secondary/Micro nutes) and the RIGHT pH range, and watch yer Ca & Mg problems go away. No point debating it, as I watched that chart get made and no the garden it came out of. Further, although counter to waht the 'weed experts' say, I know full well that the pH ranges I talk about kickass in other soiless mediums, like peat/perl/verm. Further, way too many people have too may posts invested in pimping the 'necessity' of Cal/Mag, how some strains are Ca & Mg whores, the wrong pH, etc., that there is way too much pride to swallow for that mea culpa. So I won't argue the point, just throwing it out there for people to consider and think about ...

 

[perrie0]

..seen that one before. It's one of the reasons I like to let my pH 'swing'.

 

[Max Frost]

It is. Nutirent manufacturers use RO water when mixing and determining final nute profiles in they're mixes.

To be honest, as important as final harvest quality and quantity is, it befuddles me as to why so many people use tap water and also spend money on stuff to try to correct issues created by such use.

And it is a COMPLETE MYTH that if you use RO water, you must always use Cal/Mag.

And it is a COMPLETE MYTH that different MJ strains vary so wildly in their demands, that every strain needs its own mix. Sativas are differnt, but most Indica or Indica/Sativa hybrids grwo just fine in ONE well planned and implemented nute regiment, and that is MINUS any additional Cal/Mag products.

Further, Cal/Mag products aren't just Ca and Mg. There is a good amount of N in Cal/Mag, too. So much so that N toxicities are rampant in Cal/Mag gardens. Some of these toxicities are slight and go unnoticed by most on the weed forums, but they are there ...



My observations are the same. I personally pinpoint this to four major issues:

• The majority of people on the weed forums are Beginners and Intermediate level growers. No shame in that, merely an observation. So, a little blind-leading-the-blind on Cal/Mag use ...
• Botanicare's Pure Blend Pro line hit the scene big, as it was an in the bottle mostly organic nute, bringing a flood of mostly organic hydro farmers on board, and then peat/perl/vermic groweres, too. PBP comes from the factory deficient in Mg (can't remember if it was short on Ca, too). Fortunately, Botanicare was more tahn happy to sell farmers a bottle of Cal/Mag+ to fix their shitty blend ...
• RO water became popular, and it was incorrectly thrown around and accepted that you must use Cal/Mag with RO ...
• Incorrect pH level being thrown around on the weed forums, for both hydro and other soiless mediums like peat/per/ver. The significace here being that Mg uptake sucks between 5.5 and 6.0. Mg is best exchanged from about 5.0-5.5. But, 5.6 and above has been chiseled in stone as MJ's 'right' pH. A big thing on this one is a chart that I know a lot of you have seen:

View attachment 412066

That chart there? It's garbage. First of all, it doesn't work like that - a bar chart. Ionic exchange occurs at different rates at different pH. Second of all, St0ney's numbers are wrong on the Proper Range. St0ney was a mediocre (at least at the time) hydro grower. He was also a mod at the the old Hemp Cultivation forum. So, new growers see mod status and assume that equals expert grower. It doesn't. And people like to kiss mod's assess. No offense anyone.

He came up with that chart after having issues, determined to be a Mg def, which he 'cured' with epsom salts. I think he might have been using PBP, regardless, run a hydro tub at those pH levels only, and you can develop a Mg def.

That chart is all over the weed forums, and it has been for years. It sucks, has led many growers astray, is stickied everywhere, and thrown out there by people with x,xxx posts on weed forums that try to position themselves as experts.

This is a more appropriate pH chart to consult:

View attachment 412067

Take a look, on the 'soiless' chart at what is going on between 5.6-5.9 with Mg uptake. Gee, big fuggin' surprise your plants look like they are light on Mg. That's what happens when you run an incorrect, limited pH range. Further MOST weed farmers do NOT use soil. Soil has clay and sand in it, which affects ionic exchange. Things like Pro-Mix, Sunshine #4, etc., are NOT soil mixes. They are soiless mixes. A nice amount of perlite, and your 'dirt' Homer bucket grow is the SAME thing as a hand watered, drain-to-waste hydro system, and responds, very, very well to being treated with such, like fertilized with a solution in the low 5's. As the medium dries out and exchange occurs inbetween waterings, the rootzone pH will rise, allowing the plant to experience a pH down there that will drift up towards 6, and then time to water again with 10-15% runoff and a solution in the low 5's. And this is with RO wate and NO Cal/Mag crap.

People need to research this stuff a bit and STOP spreading and referring to that stupid fuggin' chart of St0ney's, 'cause it is WRONG.

Use RO water, no Cal/Mag or epsom and a decent base nute (Macro/Secondary/Micro nutes) and the RIGHT pH range, and watch yer Ca & Mg problems go away. No point debating it, as I watched that chart get made and no the garden it came out of. Further, although counter to waht the 'weed experts' say, I know full well that the pH ranges I talk about kickass in other soiless mediums, like peat/perl/verm. Further, way too many people have too may posts invested in pimping the 'necessity' of Cal/Mag, how some strains are Ca & Mg whores, the wrong pH, etc., that there is way too much pride to swallow for that mea culpa. So I won't argue the point, just throwing it out there for people to consider and think about ...

Great info PNut!!! What pH do you recommend for indoor soil growers? Do you think the same range throughout ALL growth cycles should be maintained, or is it better to be using different ranges for veg, then for flower, or seedling stages? Thanks in advance! Best, -Max

Also --- in the "for what it's worth dept." -- General Organics Cal/Mag doesn't contain anything other than cal and mag. No additional N.

 

[PNutGallery]

Great info PNut!!! What pH do you recommend for indoor soil growers? Do you think the same range throughout ALL growth cycles should be maintained, or is it better to be using different ranges for veg, then for flower, or seedling stages? Thanks in advance! Best, -Max

Are you really using soil? Are you using a medium that has clay and sand in it? Most indoor farmers are using a peat/perlite/vermiculite (PPV) mix, amended with lime from the mfg. to deal with the pH of the peat, which can be really low, like 4's to high 3's low. But, even then, fertilizers have a huge effect upon the pH of the medium, so ...

Things like Pro-Mix, Sunshine, etc. Those are SOILLESS mixes, for they lack clay and sand. Clay and sand have an effect upon nutrient exchange, hence the need for a higher pH in soil grows. Like outdoor, in the ground with clay, sand and a bunch 'o organic matter. That kinda soil. The kinda soil you'd grow shit like wheat and corn in, NOT indoor container gardening Sweet Lady Jane.

If PPV is what you are using, let me show you a plant that was in a 10,000 Watt Mother Room. This plant was fed the EXACT same nutrient regime that the Ebb & Flow and RDWC mothers I had in that room were. RDWC received less ppm, but same proportions of the same stuff at the same pH - and in the same pH range:

Here are 24 different strains in a 24 site RDWC, lit by 6000 Watts vertically, all on the same nute regime as that PPV plant in the Homer bucket:

The pH of the nute mix I used started around 5.2 or so, and then would drift up to about 6.1, or so, where I would dump and change. The PPV were watered to 10-15% runoff (important to do) with the same solution of 5.2, or so. Over the course of a couple days, as exchange in the rootzone occured and the medium dried out, although I never really checked, pretty sure the pH of the rootzone in the PPV went through the exact same process as the nute solution in the tubs - rise to the low 6's, and then get reset back down to the low 5's with the proper watering and runoff, to go through the range again.

I had just given them a little maintenance haircut. High production Bonsai Moms, PNutGallery style.

I feel it important for a range to be run, not held at some point, or even limited range. Certainly, from what I have seen over the years, you supposedly can't run below 5.6 in RWDC. I have 24 strains in one system that says other wise. And supposedly you must feed PPV plants 5.6 and above, too ...

I use additional stuff, like rootzone conditioners, flower enhancers, etc., but those plants were fed GH 3-Part, which I really like for a number of reasons as a base. It is consistent and stable, mixes well with other stuff, and when you mix it up, it starts at the right pH, like the low 5's, with NO need for pH adjusters.

In addition to no Cal/Mag products or Epsom Salts on those plants, not one drop of pH Down or Up was used. That shit fucks up the work done by the nutrient manufacturer, and, if used wrong, can flat out fuck up your reservoir to the point you have to dump it and start over.

But, there was a rush of 'weed nutrient' mfgs, like AN, that mixed up shit, put names on it that sounded like they belonged as song titles on rap records, and kept pushing that 5.6 pH. A LIMITED range, where you have to change the proportions of the elemental nutrients to work, and then, just barely and with little tolerance between strains or at different pH levels. So, I don't know that I advocate throwing a bunch of of pH down in a mix that the mfg. is suggesting be run at that limited pH range of 5.6 and above.

What I do suggest is using a base nute (Macro/Secondary/Micro) with no Cal/Mag AND RO water, like GH 3-Part, that when mixed up starts at the right point, like 5.2, or so.

As a side note, with PPV, I always mix in MORE perlite, to air it up a bit. It works well with Sweet Lady Jane and her dry feet desires. And this, plus 10-15% runoff, makes your PPV Homer bucket grow a hand watered drain-to-waste hydro system. And should be fed using the recommendations of that B&W chart, using the SOILLESS side, but between 5.1-6.2, or so. Running a range that gets close to those numbers.

Hope that cleared up my thought on it all ...

Also --- in the "for what it's worth dept." -- General Organics Cal/Mag doesn't contain anything other than cal and mag. No additional N.

That's good to know. Although not a fan of Cal/Mag, if someone were to use it, I would definitely suggest a product like that over Botanicrap's Cal/Mag+ that comes with a good amount of N in it.

 

[Sativied]

I have always been able to avoid and solve Ca and/or Mg deficiencies by letting the PH go up to 6.2-6.3 for a day or two before I go back to my regular 5.6-6.0. My tapwater has quite a bit of both and so do the H&G and the GHE base nutes I use, plenty for cannabis plants.

 

[Max Frost]

Are you really using soil? Are you using a medium that has clay and sand in it? Most indoor farmers are using a peat/perlite/vermiculite (PPV) mix, amended with lime from the mfg. to deal with the pH of the peat, which can be really low, like 4's to high 3's low. But, even then, fertilizers have a huge effect upon the pH of the medium, so ...

Things like Pro-Mix, Sunshine, etc. Those are SOILLESS mixes, for they lack clay and sand. Clay and sand have an effect upon nutrient exchange, hence the need for a higher pH in soil grows. Like outdoor, in the ground with clay, sand and a bunch 'o organic matter. That kinda soil. The kinda soil you'd grow shit like wheat and corn in, NOT indoor container gardening Sweet Lady Jane.

If PPV is what you are using, let me show you a plant that was in a 10,000 Watt Mother Room. This plant was fed the EXACT same nutrient regime that the Ebb & Flow and RDWC mothers I had in that room were. RDWC received less ppm, but same proportions of the same stuff at the same pH - and in the same pH range:

View attachment 414119

Here are 24 different strains in a 24 site RDWC, lit by 6000 Watts vertically, all on the same nute regime as that PPV plant in the Homer bucket:

View attachment 414120

The pH of the nute mix I used started around 5.2 or so, and then would drift up to about 6.1, or so, where I would dump and change. The PPV were watered to 10-15% runoff (important to do) with the same solution of 5.2, or so. Over the course of a couple days, as exchange in the rootzone occured and the medium dried out, although I never really checked, pretty sure the pH of the rootzone in the PPV went through the exact same process as the nute solution in the tubs - rise to the low 6's, and then get reset back down to the low 5's with the proper watering and runoff, to go through the range again.

I had just given them a little maintenance haircut. High production Bonsai Moms, PNutGallery style.

I feel it important for a range to be run, not held at some point, or even limited range. Certainly, from what I have seen over the years, you supposedly can't run below 5.6 in RWDC. I have 24 strains in one system that says other wise. And supposedly you must feed PPV plants 5.6 and above, too ...

I use additional stuff, like rootzone conditioners, flower enhancers, etc., but those plants were fed GH 3-Part, which I really like for a number of reasons as a base. It is consistent and stable, mixes well with other stuff, and when you mix it up, it starts at the right pH, like the low 5's, with NO need for pH adjusters.

In addition to no Cal/Mag products or Epsom Salts on those plants, not one drop of pH Down or Up was used. That shit fucks up the work done by the nutrient manufacturer, and, if used wrong, can flat out fuck up your reservoir to the point you have to dump it and start over.

But, there was a rush of 'weed nutrient' mfgs, like AN, that mixed up shit, put names on it that sounded like they belonged as song titles on rap records, and kept pushing that 5.6 pH. A LIMITED range, where you have to change the proportions of the elemental nutrients to work, and then, just barely and with little tolerance between strains or at different pH levels. So, I don't know that I advocate throwing a bunch of of pH down in a mix that the mfg. is suggesting be run at that limited pH range of 5.6 and above.

What I do suggest is using a base nute (Macro/Secondary/Micro) with no Cal/Mag AND RO water, like GH 3-Part, that when mixed up starts at the right point, like 5.2, or so.

As a side note, with PPV, I always mix in MORE perlite, to air it up a bit. It works well with Sweet Lady Jane and her dry feet desires. And this, plus 10-15% runoff, makes your PPV Homer bucket grow a hand watered drain-to-waste hydro system. And should be fed using the recommendations of that B&W chart, using the SOILLESS side, but between 5.1-6.2, or so. Running a range that gets close to those numbers.

Hope that cleared up my thought on it all ...



That's good to know. Although not a fan of Cal/Mag, if someone were to use it, I would definitely suggest a product like that over Botanicrap's Cal/Mag+ that comes with a good amount of N in it.

Wicked cool response brother! Thank you so much for your detailed reply!! Your plants look GREAT!! Clearly...you know what you're talking about!! Unless I really missed your point though...I think it applies more to hydro. I'm just a SMALL tent/personal meds grower. I use Fox Farm Ocean Forrest soil, amended with an additional 1/3 large perlite and dolomite lime. For flowering, I add a little additional bat guano. For nutes, I use the Fox Farm line, along with added silica, the G.O. cal/mag & Liquid Karma. I use outgassed tap water (as RO is not currently an option) but live in the mountains and have really good quality, low ppm water. (70 ppm). I pH everything to a strict 6.5. I used to pH to 6.3, but raised it when "the masses" began recommending 6.5. Not sure I see allot of difference to be honest.

I think my soil mix was pretty acidic before I began adding the lime, as runoff would measure in the low to high 5's...even though it just went in at 6.5! :mad: The lime has REALLY helped that issue and stabilized the pH. Before the lime, I was seeing allot of pH damage. Crispy leaf edges, yellowing at top of plants, etc. That has cleared up now.

So are you recommending a range beginning in the 5's for soil, or just the soiless mixes? I ran ProMix soiless for a couple of runs at 6.3 and remember they seemed to do ok. (It was a long time ago).

I'm not producing cup worthy meds by ANY means...but I have been able to keep myself supplied with better herb than any I can find anywhere.

Again....thanks for your thoughtful, detailed response. I would love your opinion on the pH range you'd recommend (and why if you don't mind schooling me a bit) for my setup above. Thanks in advance!!! Best, -Max

EDIT: I should probably add that recently I switched over to the air pruning pots, and have since found adding 1/3 perlite to be too much. I add very little now (probably half or 1/4 as much) with these pots, and even have run a few with none added and they did about the same as those with it added. Also...I've been on a keeper hunt and am currently running 5 different strains at once on a perpetual harvest. (Makes having an even canopy damn near impossible...lol. And they ALL have very different feed/watering needs).

 

[Seamaiden]

Gentlemen, your posts have digressed greatly from the original intent of the thread. Would you mind terribly starting up a thread more specific to your discussion? :) If I could split into two threads, I totally would.

 

[Max Frost]

Gentlemen, your posts have digressed greatly from the original intent of the thread. Would you mind terribly starting up a thread more specific to your discussion? :) If I could split into two threads, I totally would.

Hmmm....guess we sorta did, didn't we? Sorry, Sea! Is there anyway you could move the last several posts that discuss soils and pH to a new thread? Really hate to see the conersation die, or the info be lost in an unrelated topic above. Thanks in advance!

 

[Seamaiden]

No, unfortunately I have no way to split threads. There have been quite a few digressions, in this thread and others, that I think deserve to be their own threads, too. My main interest is that information doesn't get "lost" or buried in a thread, and a lot of good, but unrelated information is being shared. :)

 

[LexLuthor]

Cool topic sea . I ran my plants for 3mor more cycles with no calcium at all and my plants didnt seem to miss it much . jacks classics has plenty of mag but no ca.only thing I can figure is they got ca. From the little bit of perlite I have in my promix/coco mixture.

do u use Ca Nitrate with Jack's?

 

[motz]

Are you really using soil? Are you using a medium that has clay and sand in it? Most indoor farmers are using a peat/perlite/vermiculite (PPV) mix, amended with lime from the mfg. to deal with the pH of the peat, which can be really low, like 4's to high 3's low. But, even then, fertilizers have a huge effect upon the pH of the medium, so ...

Things like Pro-Mix, Sunshine, etc. Those are SOILLESS mixes, for they lack clay and sand. Clay and sand have an effect upon nutrient exchange, hence the need for a higher pH in soil grows. Like outdoor, in the ground with clay, sand and a bunch 'o organic matter. That kinda soil. The kinda soil you'd grow shit like wheat and corn in, NOT indoor container gardening Sweet Lady Jane.

If PPV is what you are using, let me show you a plant that was in a 10,000 Watt Mother Room. This plant was fed the EXACT same nutrient regime that the Ebb & Flow and RDWC mothers I had in that room were. RDWC received less ppm, but same proportions of the same stuff at the same pH - and in the same pH range:

View attachment 414119

Here are 24 different strains in a 24 site RDWC, lit by 6000 Watts vertically, all on the same nute regime as that PPV plant in the Homer bucket:

View attachment 414120

The pH of the nute mix I used started around 5.2 or so, and then would drift up to about 6.1, or so, where I would dump and change. The PPV were watered to 10-15% runoff (important to do) with the same solution of 5.2, or so. Over the course of a couple days, as exchange in the rootzone occured and the medium dried out, although I never really checked, pretty sure the pH of the rootzone in the PPV went through the exact same process as the nute solution in the tubs - rise to the low 6's, and then get reset back down to the low 5's with the proper watering and runoff, to go through the range again.

I had just given them a little maintenance haircut. High production Bonsai Moms, PNutGallery style.

I feel it important for a range to be run, not held at some point, or even limited range. Certainly, from what I have seen over the years, you supposedly can't run below 5.6 in RWDC. I have 24 strains in one system that says other wise. And supposedly you must feed PPV plants 5.6 and above, too ...

I use additional stuff, like rootzone conditioners, flower enhancers, etc., but those plants were fed GH 3-Part, which I really like for a number of reasons as a base. It is consistent and stable, mixes well with other stuff, and when you mix it up, it starts at the right pH, like the low 5's, with NO need for pH adjusters.

In addition to no Cal/Mag products or Epsom Salts on those plants, not one drop of pH Down or Up was used. That shit fucks up the work done by the nutrient manufacturer, and, if used wrong, can flat out fuck up your reservoir to the point you have to dump it and start over.

But, there was a rush of 'weed nutrient' mfgs, like AN, that mixed up shit, put names on it that sounded like they belonged as song titles on rap records, and kept pushing that 5.6 pH. A LIMITED range, where you have to change the proportions of the elemental nutrients to work, and then, just barely and with little tolerance between strains or at different pH levels. So, I don't know that I advocate throwing a bunch of of pH down in a mix that the mfg. is suggesting be run at that limited pH range of 5.6 and above.

What I do suggest is using a base nute (Macro/Secondary/Micro) with no Cal/Mag AND RO water, like GH 3-Part, that when mixed up starts at the right point, like 5.2, or so.

As a side note, with PPV, I always mix in MORE perlite, to air it up a bit. It works well with Sweet Lady Jane and her dry feet desires. And this, plus 10-15% runoff, makes your PPV Homer bucket grow a hand watered drain-to-waste hydro system. And should be fed using the recommendations of that B&W chart, using the SOILLESS side, but between 5.1-6.2, or so. Running a range that gets close to those numbers.

Hope that cleared up my thought on it all ...



That's good to know. Although not a fan of Cal/Mag, if someone were to use it, I would definitely suggest a product like that over Botanicrap's Cal/Mag+ that comes with a good amount of N in it.

Hey @pnut are those drip rings? Where did you find yours and cost please?

 

[darwinism]

my plants always looks better with the addition of calmag than without. i get what you are saying but it almost seems like an aside to me, a purely academic distinction with little practical value. it we are able to deliver both mineral simultaneously with ill effect, why complicate things by adding them separately when treating a deficiency? doesn't make sense to me. the most parsimonious method is the one i would choose every time.

 

[Seamaiden]

It is hardly an aside with people are consistently misdiagnosing their plants and then throwing the wrong concoctions at them, and subsequently making things worse. Or, worse yet, those who think that Epsom salt will resolve their "cal-mag" deficiency. It still stands, there is no such thing as a "cal-mag" deficiency, two different things, two different beasts and throwing the combo product can do as much harm as good in my experience.

Also, what's wrong with being more, rather than less educated on the subject?

 

[Smoking Gun]

To add to Sea's point, not all Cal/Mag products are made the same. There is an appropriate ratio of calcium to magnesium for the proper health of plants. Some Cal/Mag products do not offer these elements in the correct ratio for optimal plant health. So in this situation applications of calcium and magnesium separately will be far more effective and appropriate to maintain healthy plants.

 

[Dr.Pepper]

great thread SeaMaiden!

i used to have high res copies of the illustrations you attached to your first post in here. Gotta go find them, good to have as a refference!

 

[DapperDon]

To add to Sea's point, not all Cal/Mag products are made the same. There is an appropriate ratio of calcium to magnesium for the proper health of plants. Some Cal/Mag products do not offer these elements in the correct ratio for optimal plant health. So in this situation applications of calcium and magnesium separately will be far more effective and appropriate to maintain healthy plants.

What brands do you find have the most consistency for individual dosing and at what EC/PPM ?

 

[Kygiacomo]

great thread. i never treat with cal-mag when i am only showing 1 def. i use a product from fertilome called Yeild booster. its 10% calcium cloride and works great for the little small rust spots when i see them creep up