This is my first real grow!

[Olddude420]

Excellent. I know what you mean about missing the plants. Every 2 weeks (off water change week) I go out of town to my summer/retirement house to work on it. While away I miss the plants terribly. When in town i check em every morning before work and take pictures. When I get home, I kiss my wife hello, set down my bags, and go check the girls out, in that order.
Before my next grow I want to get with you and pick your brain some more on the Tent Buddy, DLI, etc.
Have a good vacation.

 

[mstrpkl]

Don't remember if I had posted this or not but here is a DLI chart that you can base your initial lighting on along with seeing how the light energy ladders up at both veg and flower. Notice how the light energy is lowered when you flip then slowly ramped up. I've noticed when I follow this chart, flower sites tend to pop up a little faster at flip. No science to say why but I'm guessing the drop in light energy gives the plant a chance to switch over and secrete the needed hormones it uses to signal the plant to start flowering without having to dedicate as many resources to photosynthesis due to the drop in light energy.
I started at the recommended levels but raised them a few points higher than what was recommended. The girls loved it. I kept raising the light energy little by little everyday until I started to notice the first signs of light stress then I backed it off and left it there. After that the girls just grew into the new levels every week.

And, yes, your light settings are in range according to the chart. Good Job Brother!!!

View attachment 2294416

I know iv seen this chart a couple times before, but im also unsure if you already posted it here hahaha i think maybe you did? I dunno, theres a lot to go back through lol

I wouldn't bother. Start reading up on the dry/cure process. This is the point that will make or break your grow so it's important.

You'll probably see the most bud swell the last few weeks before harvest. I'm guessing they'll get twice as thick as they are now.

I'd also venture to say you have between 4 -6 weeks before you enter the harvest window.

Im definitely gettin into reading and watching videos about drying and curing lately. Slow drying and slow curing seem to be the way to go, i guess thats the best way to let the nitrogen and chlorophyll deteriorate while preserving the terpenes. Roughly 60° and 60% humidity is what iv heard to be perfect for initial drying, and then about 50%-60% in the jar for curing, making sure to burp it at least once a day.

Iv also read some good things about a certain type of bag thats supposed to control humidity, but i just dont trust them after working in the industry and seeing what comes in some of those bags.... theres a really nasty mold problem in the "legal" industry right now. I always catch it and bug the company i work for to destroy it or send it back. Iv gotten so used to moldy weed that i can tell you if its moldy just by the smell.... really sucks lol and AZ doesnt require companies to test for mold in their flower, but they do for concentrate lol i absolutely hate it.

And damn, i totally thought i was closer than that! Lol shes 43 days into flower (as of the day i switched lighting schedule) so thats roughly 6 weeks. I guess that makes perfect sense with what youre saying though. I might have been thinking of autoflower plants. This is definitely a photo and probably gonna take longer to ripen up. Which is fiiiiine with me, im very patient about stuff like this lol especially knowing il be rewarded for my patience, yea i dont mind the wait lol

 

[mstrpkl]

Excellent. I know what you mean about missing the plants. Every 2 weeks (off water change week) I go out of town to my summer/retirement house to work on it. While away I miss the plants terribly. When in town i check em every morning before work and take pictures. When I get home, I kiss my wife hello, set down my bags, and go check the girls out, in that order.
Before my next grow I want to get with you and pick your brain some more on the Tent Buddy, DLI, etc.
Have a good vacation.

Hell yea man! Im a noob but i think im gathering some good info so id be happy to help you out! Also talk to @PooToe hes been helping a lot as well, and has 100x more experience than me hahaha

And dude i do the saaaame thing, sometimes my lady gets a little annoyed with me when i spend too much time with the plant lol i work 2 jobs plus an extra gig with my union, she works 3 jobs, so quality time is important to her lol and me :) so i totally understand how you feel haha

 

[PooToe]

I know iv seen this chart a couple times before, but im also unsure if you already posted it here hahaha i think maybe you did? I dunno, theres a lot to go back through lol

Yes, this is a good journal for you to hold onto. Lots of good info.

Im definitely gettin into reading and watching videos about drying and curing lately. Slow drying and slow curing seem to be the way to go, i guess thats the best way to let the nitrogen and chlorophyll deteriorate while preserving the terpenes. Roughly 60° and 60% humidity is what iv heard to be perfect for initial drying, and then about 50%-60% in the jar for curing, making sure to burp it at least once a day.

60°/60% is the general rule. Yes, low and slow. Low temp/slow dry.

If you want to get even more precise you can buy a 2 pin wood moisture meter and it will tell you what the moisture content of your flowers are.

I was taught how to dry and cure from hippies up in norcal initially but since then I've modified their process to coincide more with actual science. Some of their findings were spot on, some were right but for the wrong reasons and some were just wrong. I also looked at other industries that rely on drying for their products to see what they did. I learned how the Germans like to dry their hops and why for beer(hops and weed flowers are very similar) along with how the Cubans dry their tobacco leaves and why. Gave me great insight into how to use both sources of information to put together a process.

Iv also read some good things about a certain type of bag thats supposed to control humidity, but i just dont trust them after working in the industry and seeing what comes in some of those bags.... theres a really nasty mold problem in the "legal" industry right now. I always catch it and bug the company i work for to destroy it or send it back. Iv gotten so used to moldy weed that i can tell you if its moldy just by the smell.... really sucks lol and AZ doesnt require companies to test for mold in their flower, but they do for concentrate lol i absolutely hate it.

You must be talking about Grove Bags. I've only used them once but I like them. When I was taught how to dry and cure, we were told to use large jars to cure which is what I've used for years. This time around I used the Grove Bags and can say that they did what they said they would. I guess where things tend to go wrong is when people try and use them to dry thinking that because the bag will maintain a 60% humidity level they can just stick them in the bag and they'll dry down to 60%. Most of the time what they get is a bag full of mold.
To use Grove Bags correctly you have to stabilize the humidity first meaning the dry portion of the process THEN you can stick them in the bags and let them maintain that level without them getting any drier.
This last run I pulled around 5lb. I dried them to 62% and stuck them in 1lb bags. By the time I got to the 3rd pound the flowers had been sitting in them, untouched, for around 4 months. When I opened the bag the flowers were peaking and the taste and high were a notch above the same smoke I had been smoking previously with a shorter cure time.

I typically don't buy from dispensaries for that exact reason. I get that the product gets tested and all but there are as many crooked labs as there are cultivators. If I grow my own I know exactly what went in it. Besides....growing is fun!!!

And damn, i totally thought i was closer than that! Lol shes 43 days into flower (as of the day i switched lighting schedule) so thats roughly 6 weeks. I guess that makes perfect sense with what youre saying though. I might have been thinking of autoflower plants. This is definitely a photo and probably gonna take longer to ripen up. Which is fiiiiine with me, im very patient about stuff like this lol especially knowing il be rewarded for my patience, yea i dont mind the wait lol

Day 43 of flower means you're in week 6 of flower going into week 7. Photos usually take around 10 - 12 weeks to fully mature.

 

[mstrpkl]

Yes, this is a good journal for you to hold onto. Lots of good info.

60°/60% is the general rule. Yes, low and slow. Low temp/slow dry.

If you want to get even more precise you can buy a 2 pin wood moisture meter and it will tell you what the moisture content of your flowers are.

I was taught how to dry and cure from hippies up in norcal initially but since then I've modified their process to coincide more with actual science. Some of their findings were spot on, some were right but for the wrong reasons and some were just wrong. I also looked at other industries that rely on drying for their products to see what they did. I learned how the Germans like to dry their hops and why for beer(hops and weed flowers are very similar) along with how the Cubans dry their tobacco leaves and why. Gave me great insight into how to use both sources of information to put together a process.

You must be talking about Grove Bags. I've only used them once but I like them. When I was taught how to dry and cure, we were told to use large jars to cure which is what I've used for years. This time around I used the Grove Bags and can say that they did what they said they would. I guess where things tend to go wrong is when people try and use them to dry thinking that because the bag will maintain a 60% humidity level they can just stick them in the bag and they'll dry down to 60%. Most of the time what they get is a bag full of mold.
To use Grove Bags correctly you have to stabilize the humidity first meaning the dry portion of the process THEN you can stick them in the bags and let them maintain that level without them getting any drier.
This last run I pulled around 5lb. I dried them to 62% and stuck them in 1lb bags. By the time I got to the 3rd pound the flowers had been sitting in them, untouched, for around 4 months. When I opened the bag the flowers were peaking and the taste and high were a notch above the same smoke I had been smoking previously with a shorter cure time.

I typically don't buy from dispensaries for that exact reason. I get that the product gets tested and all but there are as many crooked labs as there are cultivators. If I grow my own I know exactly what went in it. Besides....growing is fun!!!

Day 43 of flower means you're in week 6 of flower going into week 7. Photos usually take around 10 - 12 weeks to fully mature.

Yes, it was the Grove Bags! I think youre 100% right, companies are absolutely putting product in packaging WAY before it should be put in there. Sealing in tons of moisture with the buds and causing really disgusting problems.

I know for a fact the industry, at least in AZ, is rushing the hell out of the whole process because a bunch of rich people who have never smoked weed before (iv personally spoken to multiple cannabis business owners out here, thats how i know that) are getting into the industry just to make fat stacks of cash.

Its really frustrating and part of the reason i want to learn to grow so badly. I wanna bring real quality back to cannabis. Not this crappy weird designer weed bullshit thats always goin around now. If i can learn how to breed, im gonna do everything in my power to breed another skunk#1 style plant. Really miss that smell. From the plant... I live near skunks. Fuck real skunks lol

The labs and cultivators and dispensaries and politicians..... theyre all ignorant assholes. At least the majority of them seem to be based on their decisions.
If politicians and lawmakers understood, then the state would require mold testing and multiple other quality inspection points.
If dispensaries understood, theyd stop boosting the prices of products by multiple hundreds of % above what they buy it for, and theyd probably cater more to the medical users.
If cultivators understood, they would quit rushing things to just get a product out there to sell.
And if labs understood, they would stop taking bribes to boost testing on shit all the time!

For example, i recently had a type of concentrate from a certain (usually very high quality) vendor come into the store. Well when i was entering the testing into our system at the dispensary, i noticed the testing stated "104% total cannabinoids".... so either they got bribed or they didnt clean their machines or somebody fucked up when inputting the numbers into the testing machines. No matter what, all of this adds up to fuck consumers over. I hate it.

I think thats a fuckin great idea, learning how others dry and cure their stuff and applying it to cannabis. Iv heard that the Dutch will actually bury their cannabis under ground for a certain period of time, and its supposed to cure it really well. I have no idea, thats totally anecdotal. But im sure that, like your old hippie friends, they got something very right about that process. I should look into that too

 

[Organic13]

This is one of the most informative threads I've read here. I definitely have the link to it saved.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Very impressive grow. Plant is absolute perfection.

 

[mstrpkl]

This is one of the most informative threads I've read here. I definitely have the link to it saved.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Very impressive grow. Plant is absolute perfection.

Fuck yea im happy to hear that! Thats exactly my goal here, get as much good info as possible in 1 place :) helps me and everyone else. Isnt that what cannabis is supposed to be all about!?

And thank you! Its all thanks to purple cow for the soil, triple 7 for the seed, and all you awesome people on here helping me keep on track and figure things out as i went along!

 

[Organic13]

You. Don't forget you. That plant wouldn't be alive or in the condition it is in if it wasn't for YOU.

 

[mstrpkl]

Water day again! No nutrients today, next nutrients are gonna go in the top soil right before i go on vacation, and then no more after that so i can (hopefully) drain out some of that nitrogen over time.

Hope you enjoy the timelapse :) and the wide angle top photo of the canopy. Looks pretty sweet lol

 

[MisterDunk]

Water day again! No nutrients today, next nutrients are gonna go in the top soil right before i go on vacation, and then no more after that so i can (hopefully) drain out some of that nitrogen over time.

Hope you enjoy the timelapse :) and the wide angle top photo of the canopy. Looks pretty sweet lol

Hey yo, I have had to water a lot less as the girls get closer to chop. I even dribble some water over the top soil rather than wait for them to get dry like styrofoam and dunk them. Is that normal?

 

[mstrpkl]

Hey yo, I have had to water a lot less as the girls get closer to chop. I even dribble some water over the top soil rather than wait for them to get dry like styrofoam and dunk them. Is that normal?

Yo! Thanks for stoppin by!

Im not totally sure, i feel like the plants are drinking more during mid/late flower. The buds probably need more water to maintain

I dont like to let me soil get totally dry, i like a certain % dry. I can stick my finger down the side of my fabric pot, if its dry all the way down on the edges but still slightly moist more in the center then i know its probably time for me to give water.

I also use timelapse to track my plant and see when she wants water. I like to make her show signs before giving water. That way i know im only giving what she needs.

As far as i know, you want the roots to grow as much as possible throughout the life of the plant, but its really important during flower. Which means you should be watering really deep every time.

Hipefully this helps you :)

 

[PooToe]

Exactly, though I never stop giving because it’s mega crop, it has a bit more than just the n and the superseding supplement kinda wants that stuff as a building g block to more complete nutrition through mid flower,
Late flower its scorched earth . Everything it can stand for the swelling. As long as you meet the n demands specific to strain in mid flower, you should be golden as plant demand for n is donezo.

I just re read this and immediately I thought "Run your blend deeper into mid flower, then high PPM feeds of straight Bloom." Yes?

Friend of mine that hangs with the owner of Dyna-Gro told me he said forget about bloom ratios, just run it with grow to harvest. I've seen it done but, you know, variables.

 

[Captspaulding]

I just re read this and immediately I thought "Run your blend deeper into mid flower, then high PPM feeds of straight Bloom." Yes?

Friend of mine that hangs with the owner of Dyna-Gro told me he said forget about bloom ratios, just run it with grow to harvest. I've seen it done but, you know, variables.

It’s how I do it.
Yep.
I use a ten gallon feed igloo water dispenser
From early veg to flower, 50 grams of mega per ten gallons
From the beginning of flower I ramp it mega back to 25 grams and 25 grams sweet candy with 15 grams kelp extract

If the cultivar is especially vigorous I will throw some advanced nutrient big bud powder 10 grams too.
That is literally all I do and it’s just mind blowing how versatile this shit is I don’t have to cater to anything ever and I’ve roll all types of fucking difficult strains mingle together the whole time

 

[PooToe]

Yes, it was the Grove Bags! I think youre 100% right, companies are absolutely putting product in packaging WAY before it should be put in there. Sealing in tons of moisture with the buds and causing really disgusting problems.

I know for a fact the industry, at least in AZ, is rushing the hell out of the whole process because a bunch of rich people who have never smoked weed before (iv personally spoken to multiple cannabis business owners out here, thats how i know that) are getting into the industry just to make fat stacks of cash.

Its really frustrating and part of the reason i want to learn to grow so badly. I wanna bring real quality back to cannabis. Not this crappy weird designer weed bullshit thats always goin around now. If i can learn how to breed, im gonna do everything in my power to breed another skunk#1 style plant. Really miss that smell. From the plant... I live near skunks. Fuck real skunks lol

The labs and cultivators and dispensaries and politicians..... theyre all ignorant assholes. At least the majority of them seem to be based on their decisions.
If politicians and lawmakers understood, then the state would require mold testing and multiple other quality inspection points.
If dispensaries understood, theyd stop boosting the prices of products by multiple hundreds of % above what they buy it for, and theyd probably cater more to the medical users.
If cultivators understood, they would quit rushing things to just get a product out there to sell.
And if labs understood, they would stop taking bribes to boost testing on shit all the time!

For example, i recently had a type of concentrate from a certain (usually very high quality) vendor come into the store. Well when i was entering the testing into our system at the dispensary, i noticed the testing stated "104% total cannabinoids".... so either they got bribed or they didnt clean their machines or somebody fucked up when inputting the numbers into the testing machines. No matter what, all of this adds up to fuck consumers over. I hate it.

I think thats a fuckin great idea, learning how others dry and cure their stuff and applying it to cannabis. Iv heard that the Dutch will actually bury their cannabis under ground for a certain period of time, and its supposed to cure it really well. I have no idea, thats totally anecdotal. But im sure that, like your old hippie friends, they got something very right about that process. I should look into that too

I'm sure most of those fat stacks aren't made from store front sales?

 

[RootFarmer]

I just re read this and immediately I thought "Run your blend deeper into mid flower, then high PPM feeds of straight Bloom." Yes?

Friend of mine that hangs with the owner of Dyna-Gro told me he said forget about bloom ratios, just run it with grow to harvest. I've seen it done but, you know, variables.

That's interesting. I once read a study done in Canada that looked at NPK ratios and yields. They found that added P and K didn't result in higher yields. That a 3:1:2 NPK yielded the same results as a high P:K ratio. There position was that the practice of using lower N and high P:K came about as a result of growers relying on tomato fertilizer back in the dark ages of growing when we had few options.
That being said, I've tried the 3:1:2 ratio and it never held up. The plants always asked for more P in early flower. I've even tried variations of an "all purpose" straight ratio of like 1:1:1 on up to 7:7:7 and never quite cut it either. They always ask fir more P and K. But I do wonder if cutting back K a little sooner might reduce dry times at harvest. I've gone with a lower K amount for my tomatoes for quite awhile now. I get more flesh and less juice/seeds. They are super meaty. That got me thinking about how K levels impact water retention in cannabis and if it's really necessary at the end. Would it affect budswell? Is budswell just unnecessary water retention or is it an actual increase in biomass?

 

[mstrpkl]

I'm sure most of those fat stacks aren't made from store front sales?

No, the stores are just making stacks on top of the fat stacks lol

 

[PooToe]

That's interesting. I once read a study done in Canada that looked at NPK ratios and yields. They found that added P and K didn't result in higher yields. That a 3:1:2 NPK yielded the same results as a high P:K ratio. There position was that the practice of using lower N and high P:K came about as a result of growers relying on tomato fertilizer back in the dark ages of growing when we had few options.
That being said, I've tried the 3:1:2 ratio and it never held up. The plants always asked for more P in early flower. I've even tried variations of an "all purpose" straight ratio of like 1:1:1 on up to 7:7:7 and never quite cut it either. They always ask fir more P and K. But I do wonder if cutting back K a little sooner might reduce dry times at harvest. I've gone with a lower K amount for my tomatoes for quite awhile now. I get more flesh and less juice/seeds. They are super meaty. That got me thinking about how K levels impact water retention in cannabis and if it's really necessary at the end. Would it affect budswell? Is budswell just unnecessary water retention or is it an actual increase in biomass?

Interesting. I think you're on to something.

My friend told me that they'd done some tests at a few of the facilities they supply and found almost zero difference in dry weight like you said. I think you are partly right about how cannabis growers came to the formulas you see nowadays but I would offer up that part of it came from repeated deficiencies cropping up in mid to late flower hence the higher P and K. Dunno....just speculating now.

For me, the grow and bloom ratios respectively are 7-4-10 and 4-8-7. If I do a half strength blend of each my ratio would be 6-6-8. Good balance with a slight emphasis on K. Going into late flower, as @Captspaulding mentioned, remove the grow ratio leaving me with a 4-8-7 ratio. Essentially a drop in N, a bump in P and a slight drop in K. I like a bump of P in mid to late flower so this works for me. Granted, the bumps are slight but you don't need much in flower.

No, the stores are just making stacks on top of the fat stacks lol

Here in California, a lot of the dispensary owners were old school cultivators. They still had black market connections so they were using the dispensary to be able to move large amounts through their stores without reporting it moving through their warehouses. If they got caught they'd just say oops forgot to report and pay the taxes and fines and carry on. The amounts going out the backdoor compared to the 1/8ths going out the front was staggering. Same with distributors.

One owner told me he didn't really care about front of house sales other than to keep the state happy with his sales and the taxes he paid on them.

 

[mstrpkl]

Interesting. I think you're on to something.

My friend told me that they'd done some tests at a few of the facilities they supply and found almost zero difference in dry weight like you said. I think you are partly right about how cannabis growers came to the formulas you see nowadays but I would offer up that part of it came from repeated deficiencies cropping up in mid to late flower hence the higher P and K. Dunno....just speculating now.

For me, the grow and bloom ratios respectively are 7-4-10 and 4-8-7. If I do a half strength blend of each my ratio would be 6-6-8. Good balance with a slight emphasis on K. Going into late flower, as @Captspaulding mentioned, remove the grow ratio leaving me with a 4-8-7 ratio. Essentially a drop in N, a bump in P and a slight drop in K. I like a bump of P in mid to late flower so this works for me. Granted, the bumps are slight but you don't need much in flower.

Here in California, a lot of the dispensary owners were old school cultivators. They still had black market connections so they were using the dispensary to be able to move large amounts through their stores without reporting it moving through their warehouses. If they got caught they'd just say oops forgot to report and pay the taxes and fines and carry on. The amounts going out the backdoor compared to the 1/8ths going out the front was staggering. Same with distributors.

One owner told me he didn't really care about front of house sales other than to keep the state happy with his sales and the taxes he paid on them.

That sounds exactly like something that would happen in california i dont doubt its happening in AZ at certain dispensaries, but the state is really pissy about making sure testing is attached to the product before it even makes it to the store. I never see any product going out illegally here. But i do know the farm is always doing shady shit, so it reallt wouldnt surpirse me if what you said happens in cali is also happening here. Just isnt happening at the dispensary i work at.

Owner of the company i worn for has over $1billion is assets and owns multiple businesses, one of them being a trash company... so id actually bet money theres a TON of shady shit happening at the farm

 

[PooToe]

One more tip.

When you top your plants, especially the main stem, try and leave a 1/4" of stem above the branches you are going to be bending. When you top too close to the branch joints it makes it easier for the branch to peel away and break off the main stem. Leaving a nub will make it harder to do that.

If it does happen you can wrap garden tape around the wound and it should heal up but I've had branches break off completely because I was trying to bend them harder than they wanted to be.

 

[mstrpkl]

So..... heres an example of the absolute nonsense that happens DAILY in AZ dispensary life. Wont say where i work, dont wanna deal with the fallout from that. But supposedly this shit is a little over 28% THC. Outdoor grown. In the desert part of AZ. Through the summer. And QUICKLY trimmed, dried and cured through machines. Says it was harvested about 2 weeks ago. Crunchy as fuck. Smells very meh, better than this vendors shit from last year but still garbage, also very not-dense. And it poofs into nasty powder when you squeeze a nug. My boss ran up to it when we recieved it and said "YES SIR WHAT AN IMPROVEMENT!" and i immediately said "NO that is NOT a yes sir thats a nasty ass NO SIR" lol think i hurt his feelings a little but i dont care, this was disgusting to weigh.

Anyways, thought id give you guys a little insight behind the scenes at a dispensary lol please cleanse your eyes with some pictures of pretty weed under the picture of pure nastiness lol