Tired of Seeing Breeders Only Offering Fem Seeds

[manicgrower]

what about the genetic mumbo jumbo regarding the cloning of sheep or now they grow an ear in a petri dish stem cells...... these guys have no idea what they are doing, just like fukushima with the atom .... they have no control. or all the doctors pushing pills but nobody is curing shit. it's just more drugs so you " feel " good. modern day witch doctors ....

the S1's are one in the same. IMO

you are creating the change, not pollen between a true male and female so what else happens during that process ? what is caried over from the female ?? can the proponents show studies that nothing happens in the new genetics created. every other time " man " changes something in nature, you get unexpected results.

what about germ rates or runts ect from fem's. why is it raskal and other have had so manny issues. again not bashing him but is he not the first seed maker that started selling tons of fem's. sure you have others but im talking volume over a few years & complaints have erupted across all forums.

Forgive me if IM wrong, but aren't the issues Rascal and Swerve had with fems all have to do with reversed crosses made from clone only cuts that have intersex traits? The OG's, Chems and who knows what else all came from bag seed. So its fair to assume that these cuts have a natural tendency to have hermaphrodite traits. If they didn't, they probably wouldn't have been found in a bag of herb to begin with..

Most all cannabis varieties have the ability to create male flowers on female plants. Its a defense mechanism built into the plants biology to try and further their individual plant survival. It gives the plant a chance to try again next season to try and be pollinated by a true male.

Sts, CS, etc. Simply allows this expression to be shown more easily. Do these chemicals change the genetic makeup of the plant? I have no documentation showing it does or doesn't. Its my opinion though, that something as drastic as changing the genetic code of a plant via colloidal silver(which is actually quite beneficial to many organisms) is simply not plausible..

I'd be more concerned with the evolutionary affect being created by growing cannabis year after year without ever being pollinated by a male. You would think this would have some effect on its tendency to hermaphrodite..

 

[crocodile og]

Now for a lesson in science.

Certain chromosomes and the genes containing the plants dna control the floral hormones that are responsible for the signalling of the formation of pistillate and staminate flowers among these include Auxins, Cytokinins and for the purpose of this discussion most importantly Gibberellins.

The timing of and ratios of the hormones present are what influence and ultimately signal the undifferentiated cells to become either male (staminate) or female (pistillate) flowers.

It is possible to alter the ratios of the different hormones using outside sources.

In the case of causing a staminate plant to produce pistillate flowers ethylene enhancers such as Ethaphon lower the ratios of Gibberellins in comparison to the other floral hormones. Once the source of ethylene is discontinued the plant reverts to producing higher amounts of Gibberellins and thus continues to produce staminate flowers.

In the case of causing a pistillate plant to produce staminate flowers the reverse holds true. Silver Thiosulfate (STS), colloidal silver(CS) or the straight application of Gibberellic Acid (GA3) increases the ratio in favour of Gibberellins and signals the undifferentiated cells to produce staminate flower parts. When the source of GA3 is reduced in favour of Auxins etc. the plant cells continue to produce pistillate flowers.

There is simply no genetic modification, alteration or interference involved.

 

[Sativied]

Skimmed through the thread but one thing that seemingly hasn't been pointed out yet is that it's not just many buyers who want fem seeds, it's faster/easier to "breed" with females only too. To breed properly with males you have to create, grow, and test its offspring first, to see what its daughters look, smell and taste like, to see what buds its genetic contribution results in to. Simply put, it's a lot easier to pick two similar females than it is to pick a similar female and a good male.

The chemical sex trait influence u suggest established a causal link btw chemical inducement and genetic expression.

Exactly... you alter the "genetic expression" not the genetic makeup. It results in a hormonal balance change that is normally regulated by regulator genes, it does not alter those or other genes, it does not alter the alleles it passes on to offspring, it does not affect the population. It... oh, new post above, summed it up nicely. Spraying STS/CS does not equal GMO. Nurture vs nature.

 

[crocodile og]

Ya know if everyone didnt get banned around here we might know whos saying what lmao.
im with @manicgrower on all this nonsense, hermi's gunna herm, regardless of where they came from reg beans or fem.
but I do wonder how the gene pool will look in 20 years if everyone keeps making fem.seems like reg beans are getting more and more uncommon real fast like.

I agree with you somewhat but imagine what the scene would be like if no one s1 or femmed.

No pure OG, no pure Chem etc. No straight crosses between them.

It would be an even more jumbled up mess than it is now.

 

[tipz]

In perspective, if a light leak can induce herms, just think the effect of chemical inducement that changes the hormonal ratio in the plant.

 

[kolah]

There are massive differences between animal and plant cells.

Animal cells (apart from stem cells) are specialized and can only form what is genetically encoded into them. Ie. An ear will always be an ear, a liver cell will always be a liver cell.

Plants on the other hand have undifferentiated cells at the growing tips and under the cambium layer. These cells with the right stimulus can be manipulated into becoming any part of the plant. This is what cloning and tissue culture relies on.

Example cut your finger off. Put it in a bath of amino acids etc. It doesn't grow a new person from it. Take a cutting of a plant however stimulate it with rooting hormone keep the part that you want roots to form wet and dark and hey presto new plant.

Don't pass the buck because you're wrong.

in red: a stem cell is still a stem cell....it's undifferentiated and can replicate into anything. Thus all the stem cell research going on these days. I do not think you can exclude it and then attempt to make you point valid.

in blue: And from what I have read, certain animals can regrow body parts...ie a lizard can regrow a tail if severed off. And... we have been growing body parts, organs, etc for quite some time now.

And we've been cloning animals for years. There is quite of bit of scientific literature (for what it's with) that shows that altered hormones in humans can dictate sex and even alter sexual preference.

In reference to your "new plant" comment, is it a new plant or just a transferred branch. Do you see my point? Calling it a new plant may not be absolute.

Correct me if I wrong.

I can see this going sour real quick. Let's try to play nice. And for the record I have no dog in this race....I was just venting on the unavailability to get regular seeds in some strains.

 

[crocodile og]

in red: a stem cell is still a stem cell....it's undifferentiated and can replicate into anything. Thus all the stem cell research going on these days. I do not think you can exclude it and then attempt to make you point valid.

in blue: And from what I have read, certain animals can regrow body parts...ie a lizard can regrow a tail if severed off. And... we have been growing body parts, organs, etc for quite some time now.

And we've been cloning animals for years. There is quite of bit of scientific literature (for what it's with) that shows that altered hormones in humans can dictate sex and even alter sexual preference.

In reference to your "new plant" comment, is it a new plant or just a transferred branch. Do you see my point? Calling it a new plant may not be absolute.

Correct me if I wrong.

As for the lizard yes it grows a new tail but the tail doesn't grow a new lizard. Thats the difference.

 

[crocodile og]

In perspective, if a light leak can induce herms, just think the effect of chemical inducement that changes the hormonal ratio in the plant.

But not the genes.

 

[SpiderK]

i have no issue with og raskal or swerve.

i also admit its a tough call regarding sales. capitalism is a bitch and thats baked into everyones lives. so if breeders sell seeds its easy for someone claiming issues because they fucked up, or want free seeds .... not sure how a breeder could make everyone happy sending out seeds on a call and the cost.

and like tex said breeders gotta keep something unique ......

and i'd also point out, if a breeder is worried about missing out on something special he should not sell F1's. run those in house ......

 

[QLTYlab]

im more concerned with the lack of tested genetics being released than fems. Fems have their place in the market, untested and unworked genetics do not. Too many pollen chuckers wanting to be the next Arjan.

 

[SpiderK]

manicgrower .....

i agree with almost all your post since ive joined. even when u call me out or challenge a thought. it the only way u learn or realize your giving the wrong impression and i've had that issue before. most of the time when i post, i just want things look at from a different perspective ....

i have nothing against anybody. nothing personal, its more about some stupid issue that bothers me and instead of reflection, some times it just spills out in a mess ....

but this topic has always drawn my interest. i stayed off the forums for the most part until a couple years ago but lurked on most for years.

 

[MrBanjo]

I should add, I've seen some fire come from CC gear. I've had some serious herm issues from his stuff. Never asked for a refund, chalk it up to a learning experience.

Every plant is different and that's what I love about it.

 

[kolah]

I still can't accept that a cut branch which has been re-rooted becomes a "new plant." Because it's not. The cut branch is not a new plant at all..at least IMO. It's a transferred branch (called a clone). It's not a new lizard either. ;)

We clone animals too. Is it a NEW animal ?In a sense yes..but again it's open to definition. If I draw a picture and then make a copy of that same picture is the copied picture considered "new?" Maybe I'm splitting hairs here.

add/edit: we also experiment with human hormones which can alter human gender as well as sexual preference. Even in the wild we see homosexual animals and hermaphodites.

 

[kolah]

im more concerned with the lack of tested genetics being released than fems. Fems have their place in the market, untested and unworked genetics do not. Too many pollen chuckers wanting to be the next Arjan.

I am not a big fan of Arjan at all. That's all I will say about him to avoid Arjan Disciples from getting buttsore.

 

[kolah]

anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....I hope more breeders decide to make more reg seeds available. :) THE END. maybe.

 

[tipz]

No agenda here buddy. Apart from true science.

The whole reason S1's are made is because they will be closest to the original parent. Limited genetic variation will occur due to recombination of recessive and dominant genes but that occurs in regs too. And with higher variation due to input from the male.

Your "genetic mutation" argument suggests that STS induced Bubba Kush seeds may give rise to a Nevils Haze. Quite comical.

You can pick and choose the replies if you want but you are still simply wrong.

 

[tipz]

Your opinion has not persuaded me sorry.there is a causal link btw chemical inducement and proliferation of herm expression. The sheer exponentiation of the practice, is what your seeing in reality now, with all the complaints. One fucking thing is for sure, i squash the hell out of them, always have always will.

 

[tipz]

Yep, shoulda said expression rather than structure. Ill make the change. Often wrong, never in doubt. Tipz

 

[QLTYlab]

I am not a big fan of Arjan at all. That's all I will say about him to avoid Arjan Disciples from getting buttsore.

Believe I am no fan, that's why I referenced him. Just another greed driven ganjapreneur that happened to have gotten ahead of the pack.

 

[tipz]

The gene pool is taking a beating
Anyone that tells you that chemical inducement doesn't alter
The genetic expression is just full of crap. Its called wallet
protectionism. Tipz