Tnelz thread about whatever!

[420 lyfePpP]

Learning lots on the farm☺ . Im in medium transition. So I'm keeping it real green☺.

 

[Pimp T]

Thanks for the advice guys im cheap so I always look for the cheapest route im thinkin either 4 cu ft cocogro or 3 cu ft promix bx with either mills or vegamatrix. Gonna go with red lava rock from home depot for the aeration. Cant beat $3 a cu ft for it.Ive already done the chem thing and dont wanna go back and ive used vegamatrix and had some of the most perfect deficiency free plants ive ever had. So ill probably go with vegamatrix. Hey @Tnelz @FlyinJStable whats the scoop on green clean? Whats it derived from does it have to be rinsed off like mighty wash? You guys have a sample 2 oz I could get? I got new cutz in that I wanna disinfect

 

[420 lyfePpP]

The red lava rock @Pimp T for aeraition that good like perlite? How much would u say be good for a bale? Sounds good get more air down in pots. ?

 

[Pimp T]

Yeah ive been useing it for some time for aeration. I get them from home depot $3 per cu ft bag. U can run over it with a car or hammer it a little to make it smaller but I use it just like it is out of the bag. Im not exactly sure measurements of a bale. I just used it in combination with 3 cu ft of sphagnum peat moss 3 cu ft of wormpower wormcasting and buffaloam compost mix and 3
cu ft of red lava rock. @420 lyfePpP so all of that in combination wit 1 cup crab meal 1 cup neem cake 1 cup kelp meal and 1/2 cup basalt and 1/2 cup oyster shell powder 1/2 cup gypsum per cu ft made me 9 cuft soil

 

[MGRox]

There has been some nice juicy tidbits with mediums along with the various preferences; which has been nice to see / read!!

With the Coco Loco;....I found a list of ingredients from another site (if anyone wants)
"composted forest humus, coco coir, perlite, earthworm castings, fossilized bat guano, Norwegian kelp meal, oyster shell and dolomite lime, and mycorrhizae."

I have a curiosity with this medium and Tnelz talked some about it. For anyone using the Coco Loco, do you consider it "Soil" or "soiless"???? Since it has organic matter and minerals n' all.

I guess too, there has been some discussion with aeration of mediums and the various methods used. I suppose after spending a couple years on nute profiles, I've recently (last 5 months) focused more on mediums specifically. There are some various thoughts that I could throw out, since we're on the subject; of course just my preferences or p.o.v.

With perlite, I ran tests (while doing nutes) with 70%, 50%, 30% and 20% perlite (remainder mixed with peat). I've only done a couple tests with perlite and coir, though coir consistency varies far greater than peat (brands, types, course, fine etc). The tests with perlite, along with reading over the last couple years and other info; sort of led me to look down another avenue for aeration.
If we considered a "perfect" scenario for just aeration or 02, then we would have effectively zero medium. However, if we consider the medium as an object to adhere and a surface onto which to grow; the maximum benefit from a medium would be with 100% of the space being occupied by medium.
What I found with high levels of perlite was that although I had a greater percentage of aeration; the "net total" surface area of the medium was lower than without perlite. I.E. effectively, to me, perlite must be Subtracted from the volume of medium in the container (ex. 25% perlite mix in a 1 gallon pot should be considered .75 gallon of soil, not 1 gallon). This would apply to any other type of aeration that did not allow roots to "penetrate" the material (styrofoam, hydroton, rocks etc). Outside of this, I have no issues with these items as amendments.

To try and optimize the soiless medium (for me) I've recently been testing a mix that I'm fairly happy with. I believe the overall cost is reasonable (not figured lol).
For the Coir Fraction; I mix equal parts Canna coir (fine, consistent, high moisture retention) with Sun Leaves Peacecoir block (course, low moisture retention, high aeration, needs rinsed).
For the Peat Fraction; I mix 2 parts "composted bark" (aka composted forest products), with 1 part peat and 1 tbspn per gallon lime. (bark must be totally black).
For the organic add; I mix appx. 15% of total volume as Alaskan Humus (consistency).
I add appx. 10% perlite to the total volume of medium, mainly to show even mixing.
This works out to 4 and 4 parts coir + 3 parts peat /bark + 2 parts humus + 1 part perlite. (4,4,3,2,1)

The medium is a nice heavyweight style with excellent aeration and drainage. I'm very happy with the rooting, but good luck getting any soil back at the end; lol. Other than the bit of perlite to denote even mixing; all other components can be considered "active" mediums, in that they can be rooted on / through. Composted bark provides both good aeration and some nice pockets of organics and if at the right level of composting before you start; most of it should be gone at the end of a run. I treat this as any other soiless medium, so I do full strength nutes and such. Though this could easily be used as the base for other amendments that many use.

Random thoughts, sorry if I rambled :)

Edit: medium pic>

 

[Lazerus00]

wait is everything in yer recipe from crab meal to gypsum measurements per cu ft? or just the gypsum? @Pimp T

 

[Max Frost]

I use grow stones exclusively. Both the large and small. The small are still the size of chunky perlite. A little more money but a far better product. I've used it from soil to Dec. The ebb and flow table I'm building will utilize grow stones as a medium. Not to mention the are made from recycled material in the USA. I met the owner of the company at the maximum yield event. Awesome guy. I completely recommend this product over perlite. Adds silica to you mix as well.

Super! Ty for the info bro! I'll look forward to running it with confidence next round then! If it's that good...I'm sure I'll prob never go back! Since the growstones contain silica...I'm currently giving Armour Si...should I drop or amend that you guess? (I could sure use the extra ppm's!...lol! ;)

So while we are on the coco loco topic...I've got a ton of soil I mixed up before this run I'm on now. It is one bag of ocean forrest, one bag of happy frog. I also threw in a little extra perlite, lime, and a bit of happy frog jump start to the mix as well. I'm currently growing my Alien og in the mix right now and that combined with the nectat for the gods in flowet has been extremely good. IVe also got about 3/4 bag of cyco coco. I figured I could mix that coco and soil together in equal parts and get a pretty killer medium similar to coco loco. What do you guys think?

I think that's a great soil mix you're current;y using! I ran a very similar one myself for a long time! Your gals will love it...as I'm sure you're seeing! I haven't used the coco loco, but I KNOW the other part of your mix is ok! Best, Max

 

[Pimp T]

1cu ft sphagnum peat moss 1 cu ft of wormpower castings and buffaloam mixed( .5cuft wormpower .5cuft buffaloam) 1cu ft lava rock. 1 cup neem cake 1 cup crab meal 1 cup kelp meal 1/2 cup basalt 1/2 cup oyster shell powder 1/2 cup gypsum per cu ft of the peat lavarock casting compost combo. @Lazerus00 all are per cu ft not just the gypsum

 

[Max Frost]

Couldn't have said it better myself. This place has turned into exactly the kind of place I like to be. Never thought it would be this huge. Thanks to everyone.

Yep! I agree! Nice den to chill in bro!!! Speaking of hanging...I went into Hardees today and sat down behind two dudes whose convo turned to growing!! One of them proceeded to tell the other that the BEST way to grow MJ was with human piss and cat hair!! I almost choked...but never said a word! Where's THAT dude when we need him most? lmao! Sheesh!!!

If we considered a "perfect" scenario for just aeration or 02, then we would have effectively zero medium. However, if we consider the medium as an object to adhere and a surface onto which to grow; the maximum benefit from a medium would be with 100% of the space being occupied by medium.
What I found with high levels of perlite was that although I had a greater percentage of aeration; the "net total" surface area of the medium was lower than without perlite. I.E. effectively, to me, perlite must be Subtracted from the volume of medium in the container (ex. 25% perlite mix in a 1 gallon pot should be considered .75 gallon of soil, not 1 gallon).

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion bro, that you need to NOT count the perlite! It does in fact act VERY MUCH as a medium! Up until recently, I was running in 100% perlite and getting excellent results. It holds air, water (and therefore nutes contained in the water) & support. That IS a medium! Respect! Best, Max

 

[Pimp T]

@Max Frost im not sure if it was you but I saw a bog grow one time and never could find it again. It was sour bubble sour grape and I think sour strawberry logged from seed to bud. If that was your grow could you put down a link so I could go to that thread.

 

[Power OG]

There has been some nice juicy tidbits with mediums along with the various preferences; which has been nice to see / read!!

With the Coco Loco;....I found a list of ingredients from another site (if anyone wants)
"composted forest humus, coco coir, perlite, earthworm castings, fossilized bat guano, Norwegian kelp meal, oyster shell and dolomite lime, and mycorrhizae."

I have a curiosity with this medium and Tnelz talked some about it. For anyone using the Coco Loco, do you consider it "Soil" or "soiless"???? Since it has organic matter and minerals n' all.

I guess too, there has been some discussion with aeration of mediums and the various methods used. I suppose after spending a couple years on nute profiles, I've recently (last 5 months) focused more on mediums specifically. There are some various thoughts that I could throw out, since we're on the subject; of course just my preferences or p.o.v.

With perlite, I ran tests (while doing nutes) with 70%, 50%, 30% and 20% perlite (remainder mixed with peat). I've only done a couple tests with perlite and coir, though coir consistency varies far greater than peat (brands, types, course, fine etc). The tests with perlite, along with reading over the last couple years and other info; sort of led me to look down another avenue for aeration.
If we considered a "perfect" scenario for just aeration or 02, then we would have effectively zero medium. However, if we consider the medium as an object to adhere and a surface onto which to grow; the maximum benefit from a medium would be with 100% of the space being occupied by medium.
What I found with high levels of perlite was that although I had a greater percentage of aeration; the "net total" surface area of the medium was lower than without perlite. I.E. effectively, to me, perlite must be Subtracted from the volume of medium in the container (ex. 25% perlite mix in a 1 gallon pot should be considered .75 gallon of soil, not 1 gallon). This would apply to any other type of aeration that did not allow roots to "penetrate" the material (styrofoam, hydroton, rocks etc). Outside of this, I have no issues with these items as amendments.

To try and optimize the soiless medium (for me) I've recently been testing a mix that I'm fairly happy with. I believe the overall cost is reasonable (not figured lol).
For the Coir Fraction; I mix equal parts Canna coir (fine, consistent, high moisture retention) with Sun Leaves Peacecoir block (course, low moisture retention, high aeration, needs rinsed).
For the Peat Fraction; I mix 2 parts "composted bark" (aka composted forest products), with 1 part peat and 1 tbspn per gallon lime. (bark must be totally black).
For the organic add; I mix appx. 15% of total volume as Alaskan Humus (consistency).
I add appx. 10% perlite to the total volume of medium, mainly to show even mixing.
This works out to 4 and 4 parts coir + 3 parts peat /bark + 2 parts humus + 1 part perlite. (4,4,3,2,1)

The medium is a nice heavyweight style with excellent aeration and drainage. I'm very happy with the rooting, but good luck getting any soil back at the end; lol. Other than the bit of perlite to denote even mixing; all other components can be considered "active" mediums, in that they can be rooted on / through. Composted bark provides both good aeration and some nice pockets of organics and if at the right level of composting before you start; most of it should be gone at the end of a run. I treat this as any other soiless medium, so I do full strength nutes and such. Though this could easily be used as the base for other amendments that many use.

Random thoughts, sorry if I rambled :)

Edit: medium pic> View attachment 527541

Been using coco loco for minute and i consider it soiless , you can treat like coco because it is or can approach like a soil but still it isn't. In my opinion coco loco is perfect 4 organic coco growing or as a base for a organic super coco.
Respect

 

[Power OG]

Closet full of Yeti's

 

[MGRox]

@Max Frost Well shoot, I probably should have taken more time to phrase that / phrased that poorly. I did not state or intend to convey that perlite, hydroton etc, are not mediums. You bring up a good point with 100% perlite and I've even done flood drain with 100% hydroton I suppose. Though I would consider those situations more into "hydro" and less as a "soiless" (semantics grr) type medium. I totally agree they are mediums. I believe the root mass in the hydroton flood drain was some of my highest, though half or more was on the flood tray and not "in" the container.

I suppose you have to watch with me, I like to look at things from all sorts of perspectives. I guess, I setup with relating medium as being adhered to or grown into and later mentioned penetration. The perspective I was relating there is if we have a volume of 1 gallon to root in and that volume is filled with, say peat or coir; (in a perfect world) there is a higher total space for roots to grow than if that same space is cut with perlite or hydroton. Hmmm, maybe another way; there is a large percentage of the physical structure of perlite that does not / cannot hold roots (internally). Whereas with peat or coir there is virtually no percentage of the physical structure that cannot hold roots. (Basically now, in my mind the only thing I do different is say "I want to run 50% perlite....cool I'll grab a 2 gallon pot instead of a 1 gallon)
I'm not intending to be "Dogging" on perlite or other, either. Just more of how I look at it now. I run 1 gallon containers and single waterings per day (also airpots), so weighing all the root masses I found ; dry weight root mass was inversely proportional to perlite percentage (*yields were similar in these tests despite root mass change). Though I was running hourly waterings with the higher perlite tests.
I suppose higher perlite levels also created a larger number of thicker branch roots and less total fine hair laterals. Whereas this new medium (with various particle sizes all penetrable) produces masses of fine laterals along with the branches. The fine laterals are almost like holding moss, when you break it up.

I suppose that root bondage pic from a page or two ago I posted was in the medium I mentioned. For instance there, a with high perlite fraction and hand watering I could not get that high of root density shown.

heck I still probably didn't explain what I'm tryin to say right, but hopefully. It's just a perspective n' all.

@Power OG Thanks for that clarification. A big D'oh on me there. I totally forgot about the organic soiless guys :oops:

 

[Power OG]

@MGRox yea i prefer to grow Organic but i also prefer coco, so coco loco was a perfect medium for that. I do know you could also run it with chems no problem, or hempys passive hydro style. Very versatile medium.
Respect bro

 

[Pimp T]

Yeti by the pound those shoes will smell like yeti forever

Closet full of Yeti's View attachment 527558

 

[Ned Kelly]

There has been some nice juicy tidbits with mediums along with the various preferences; which has been nice to see / read!!

With the Coco Loco;....I found a list of ingredients from another site (if anyone wants)
"composted forest humus, coco coir, perlite, earthworm castings, fossilized bat guano, Norwegian kelp meal, oyster shell and dolomite lime, and mycorrhizae."

I have a curiosity with this medium and Tnelz talked some about it. For anyone using the Coco Loco, do you consider it "Soil" or "soiless"???? Since it has organic matter and minerals n' all.

I guess too, there has been some discussion with aeration of mediums and the various methods used. I suppose after spending a couple years on nute profiles, I've recently (last 5 months) focused more on mediums specifically. There are some various thoughts that I could throw out, since we're on the subject; of course just my preferences or p.o.v.

With perlite, I ran tests (while doing nutes) with 70%, 50%, 30% and 20% perlite (remainder mixed with peat). I've only done a couple tests with perlite and coir, though coir consistency varies far greater than peat (brands, types, course, fine etc). The tests with perlite, along with reading over the last couple years and other info; sort of led me to look down another avenue for aeration.
If we considered a "perfect" scenario for just aeration or 02, then we would have effectively zero medium. However, if we consider the medium as an object to adhere and a surface onto which to grow; the maximum benefit from a medium would be with 100% of the space being occupied by medium.
What I found with high levels of perlite was that although I had a greater percentage of aeration; the "net total" surface area of the medium was lower than without perlite. I.E. effectively, to me, perlite must be Subtracted from the volume of medium in the container (ex. 25% perlite mix in a 1 gallon pot should be considered .75 gallon of soil, not 1 gallon). This would apply to any other type of aeration that did not allow roots to "penetrate" the material (styrofoam, hydroton, rocks etc). Outside of this, I have no issues with these items as amendments.

To try and optimize the soiless medium (for me) I've recently been testing a mix that I'm fairly happy with. I believe the overall cost is reasonable (not figured lol).
For the Coir Fraction; I mix equal parts Canna coir (fine, consistent, high moisture retention) with Sun Leaves Peacecoir block (course, low moisture retention, high aeration, needs rinsed).
For the Peat Fraction; I mix 2 parts "composted bark" (aka composted forest products), with 1 part peat and 1 tbspn per gallon lime. (bark must be totally black).
For the organic add; I mix appx. 15% of total volume as Alaskan Humus (consistency).
I add appx. 10% perlite to the total volume of medium, mainly to show even mixing.
This works out to 4 and 4 parts coir + 3 parts peat /bark + 2 parts humus + 1 part perlite. (4,4,3,2,1)

The medium is a nice heavyweight style with excellent aeration and drainage. I'm very happy with the rooting, but good luck getting any soil back at the end; lol. Other than the bit of perlite to denote even mixing; all other components can be considered "active" mediums, in that they can be rooted on / through. Composted bark provides both good aeration and some nice pockets of organics and if at the right level of composting before you start; most of it should be gone at the end of a run. I treat this as any other soiless medium, so I do full strength nutes and such. Though this could easily be used as the base for other amendments that many use.

Random thoughts, sorry if I rambled :)

Edit: medium pic> View attachment 527541

Cheers bro @MGRox and now I see why tnelz like loco . Solid base . Nothing like that here , it's make your own .

 

[Pimp T]

I saw a kangaroo street fight down under on you tube this morning and I thought of your pic u got up haha @Ned Kelly

 

[Ned Kelly]

Yeah those roo's go at it lol.

 

[420 lyfePpP]

Yep! I agree! Nice den to chill in bro!!! Speaking of hanging...I went into Hardees today and sat down behind two dudes whose convo turned to growing!! One of them proceeded to tell the other that the BEST way to grow MJ was with human piss and cat hair!! I almost choked...but never said a word! Where's THAT dude when we need him most? lmao! Sheesh!!!



I respectfully disagree with your conclusion bro, that you need to NOT count the perlite! It does in fact act VERY MUCH as a medium! Up until recently, I was running in 100% perlite and getting excellent results. It holds air, water (and therefore nutes contained in the water) & support. That IS a medium! Respect! Best, Max

Never heard of cat hair or piss.lmafo ☺. But maybe it works for him. Wouldn't like the smell or piss flies.
But the perlite for medium I have heard of. Sounds cool do u have a pic of the results? Be cool to see. I'm still trying to get the zone best for the ladies. Love the info from all the fellow farmers ☺. Good vibes

 

[420 lyfePpP]

Ya they go at it not even the hoofs up top . I like how they give that kick ☺. Well no roos on my phone but got this lil guy from down under☺