Tnelz thread about whatever!

SeaF0ur · Feb 23, 2016

not personally, but I've heard nothing but good things...

BlackSheepOG · Feb 23, 2016

Pacdab......

drewski85 · Feb 24, 2016

BlackSheepOG said:
Pacdab......
View attachment 575732

I'm right there with ya brother

BlackSheepOG · Feb 24, 2016

drewski85 said:
I'm right there with ya brother View attachment 575748

Cheers

SeaF0ur · Feb 24, 2016

Tonight is Jupiters night.

He can be seen even if reading a star chart or basic cardinal directions are difficult for you.

As bright as he'll be for an entire year he sits on top of the moon for all to see.

BlackSheepOG · Feb 24, 2016

SeaF0ur said:
Tonight is Jupiters night.

He can be seen even if reading a star chart or basic cardinal directions are difficult for you.

As bright as he'll be for an entire year he sits on top of the moon for all to see.

Might have to go have a look

Lazerus00 · Feb 24, 2016

@SeaF0ur

I actually found one better.....www.doyourownpestcontrol.com has the nozzle for $38.50 no tax and free shipping!! Woo Hoo!!! Thank you for your earlier post, it made me take the time to check other site prices instead of just ordering from the manufacturers website!! With this price here I will be saving just under $20!! Feeling pretty darn good!!

BlackSheepOG · Feb 24, 2016

MGRox · Feb 24, 2016

Guess I'll ramble a bit more on Urea / multiple nitrate forms to get it out of the way. There's still a few things at play that I've not covered. Previously, from papers, I've talked about Ca and NH4 interaction, Urea transporters, CO2 uptake and PS dissipation relative to NO3 and NH4.

This next paper covers quite a bit, but is of most interest relating to gene expression (up and down regulation); in response to differing N forms. As well there are some good analysis into plant responses relative to N forms.

PAPER: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442537/
"Urea uptake was stimulated by urea but was reduced by the presence of ammonium nitrate in the growth medium. N deficiency in plants did not affect urea uptake. Urea exerted a repressive effect on nitrate influx, whereas urea enhanced ammonium uptake"
"Our transcriptomic approach revealed that nitrate and ammonium transporters were transcriptionally regulated by urea as well as key enzymes of the glutamine synthetase-glutamate synthase pathway. AtDUR3, a high-affinity urea transporter in Arabidopsis, was strongly up-regulated by urea. Moreover, our transcriptomic data suggest that other genes are also involved in urea influx."

"It has been shown that the initial N status of plants and/or the presence of other N metabolites alters the uptake and reduction of nitrate. It is thought that these interactions are mainly operating on transcriptional regulations. Indeed, expression of NRT2.1, the major component of the high-affinity nitrate transport system, is induced by nitrate and repressed by high N status through a negative feedback mechanism, probably mediated by ammonium or amino acids. It has long been known that the presence of ammonium inhibits nitrate uptake and assimilation.
".....the regulation of root nitrate uptake in response to light or N treatment also occurs at the AtNRT2.1 protein level. AMT genes, involved in ammonium uptake into plant cells, exhibit a variety of expression patterns in response to N deprivation or after ammonium resupply. In Arabidopsis, four AMT genes expressed specifically in roots are up-regulated to different extents by N starvation"
"In wheat (Triticum aestivum) seedlings, urea was shown to inhibit ammonium and nitrate uptake, while nitrate induced urea absorption. In contrast, addition of ammonium to nitrate not only eliminated the nitrate-mediated enhancement of urea uptake, but ammonium alone was shown to directly inhibit urea influx."

"Plants grown on the ureic nutrition contained the highest free NH4+ concentration in both roots and shoots, whereas the N-starved plants had low amounts of NH4+. The two other treatments (AN and AN+U) revealed comparable and intermediate amounts of NH4. With the exception of N-starved plants, in which, as described previously, urea concentration was the lowest, analysis of the urea content in roots did not reveal statistically significant differences among the N treatments, even if urea was added to ammonium nitrate. Thus, no dramatic changes in N-related metabolite contents were observed when plants were grown on the different N regimes.
"We then investigated how N was assimilated into amino acids by plants. The N-starved plants had low concentrations of total soluble amino acid compared with the other nutrient conditions. While addition of urea to ammonium nitrate-containing medium (AN+U) had no effect on the plants' amino acid content compared with AN, plants grown only on urea as the sole N source for 1 week showed a significant increases in amino acid concentration, particularly in roots, where the level was more than twice that of AN and AN+U plants."

"In order to determine which amino acids were responsible for the strong accumulation of total soluble amino acids observed in plants fed with urea as the sole N source, we analyzed the amino acid composition of these plants"

"To study urea absorption by root cells, we determined urea influx using 15N-labeled urea."
"Urea influx in roots was detected regardless of the N regime of the plants. The urea influx reached the highest level when urea was present as the sole N source for 1 week. The uptake of nitrate was not affected when urea was used in combination with ammonium nitrate (AN or AN+U conditions) but was reduced in the urea-grown and N-starved plants. Conversely, the influx of ammonium in N-starved plants was 2-fold higher than in AN or AN+U plants. While ammonium and urea seemed to be assimilated directly in roots, nitrate was rapidly (5 min) translocated to the shoots, as the value of the shoot-root 15N ratio was about 1 for the AN and AN+U plants"
"Concerning the CO(15NH2)2 assimilation, the highest 15N labeling was detected as [15N]urea regardless of the N nutrition. This result suggests that most of the urea taken up was not metabolized in roots. The labeled urea pool reached 50% of total 15N in urea-grown plants but was high regardless of the nutrition regime"

"As demonstrated above, the N treatments led to major changes in plant physiology at the levels of both N source uptake and enzymatic activities related to N assimilation. These changes might be linked to differences in gene expression, although global analysis could also reveal other urea-regulated processes. To determine the genomic response of Arabidopsis roots and shoots to urea N nutrition, transcriptome profiling was performed on 42-d-old U- versus AN-grown seedlings with CATMA arrays carrying gene-specific tags.
"Only genes that showed statistically significant signals and signal ratios in both biological replicates were considered"

"Based on the statistical analysis, 960 (about 4% of total GSTs) and 474 (about 2% of total GSTs) genes were found differentially expressed between U- and AN-grown plants, respectively, in root and shoot parts. Fewer genes were differentially expressed for the comparison between AN+U and AN: 120 (about 0.5% of total GSTs) and 131 in roots and shoots, respectively."
Urea versus Ammonium Nitrate
"In roots, the functional group with the highest number of genes differentially expressed (122) concerned transcription. Genes involved in RNA machinery were more induced (62%) than repressed (38%). Among these induced genes, those encoding zinc finger family proteins were well represented. The second most represented category was transport, and a similar number of genes involved in transport were induced and repressed. This category encompassed the most induced genes in response to urea as the unique source of N, like At5g45380 (AtDUR3; a high-affinity urea/H+ symporter; Liu et al., 2003a), At3g24290 (a putative ammonium transporter), At1g12940 (AtNrt2.5; a high-affinity nitrate transporter), and aquaporins (MIP family). The high-affinity nitrate transporter NRT2.4 (At5g60770) and the high-affinity ammonium transporters AMT2 (At2g38290), AMT1.3 (At3g24300), and AMT1.1 (At4g13510) were also induced, as well as several amino acids and sugar transporters. Concerning the repressed genes involved in transport, we noted sulfate transport genes, aquaporins (PIP, MIP, and TIP), the chloride channel protein CLC-a (At5g40890; recently demonstrated to act as a vacuolar nitrate transporter; De Angeli et al., 2006), the low-affinity nitrate/chlorate transporter NRT1.1 (CHL1; At1g12110), and six GSTs of the proton-dependent oligopeptide transport protein family. The next gene categories that were differentially expressed are, in decreasing order, protein machinery, stress, hormone metabolism, amino acid metabolism, development, and signaling. In the stress and signaling classes, most of the genes were up-regulated by urea."

Ammonium Nitrate + Urea versus Ammonium Nitrate
"Transcription, protein machinery, and transport were the most representative categories of genes differentially expressed, irrespective of the organ. Among transport genes, we recognized some amino acid transporters induced in roots and shoots as well as the same two MIP family genes induced in roots of urea-fed plants. Surprisingly, the high-affinity AtNRT2.1 nitrate transporter (At3g45060) was up-regulated in shoots, while it is mainly expressed in roots (Orsel et al., 2002). A permease of the purine and allantoin pathway, a source of urea in plants, was repressed in shoots."

Specific Genes Transcriptionally Regulated by Urea
The comparison of results for the AN+U and U conditions with the AN reference allowed us to distinguish genes for which transcription was specifically regulated by urea. We found 58 and 32 common genes differentially regulated in roots and shoots, respectively, between the AN+U and U groups compared with the reference AN group. These genes are listed in Tables II and III. The patterns of regulation of gene expression in root for U and AN+U-grown plants were perfectly identical. This was less true for shoots, but globally, the regulation profiles were similar for the majority of the genes. In roots, 46 of the common genes were induced, and only 12 were repressed. These 58 genes were mainly distributed between transcription and transport categories. Two MIPs, At2g29870 and At2g34390, were included in the 46 induced genes (Table II). In shoots, 17 and 15 genes were up- and down-regulated, respectively. We found genes implicated in N and amino acid metabolism. While the transcription of a putative GS (At5g37600) was induced, genes coding for nitrite reductase (At2g15620) and for the Asn synthetase ASN2 (At5g65010) were negatively regulated.

Several key points for me; N content was similar regardless of N form, , that urea and ammonium are (in general) assimilated in roots vs Nitrate in shoots, that there is a complex interaction between transporter regulation with differing N forms, that many amino acids are higher with Urea treatment and that many genes are upregulated with Urea (or combination) including stress signaling and stress response.

IMHO, the connection of amino acids, stress signaling and stress ressponse directly to Urea; may be a large contributing factor (and evidence) in my mentioning / noticing a change in both flavor profile and oil content. That is the primary reason for the connection to this paper.

Lazerus00 · Feb 24, 2016

@MGRox

Hey buddy, as always thanks for all the love on my comments...Hey so I am feeling really stupid bc although I have seen and know your handle is MGRox but I guess I never put any thought into why. Do you use MG nutrients?? Or is you handle ment to be funny? I guess the reason I thought of it is bc I was in another thread and a new grower was asking about what nutes to use and of course everybody gave their 2 cents but then one person said something along the lines of...

"you can use Miracle Gro nutrients, a grower here on the farm uses them and he absolutely KILLS it in the grow room but he is a very experienced grower and I would be very careful using them"

After reading that I of course thought of your name and am assuming that the user was talking about you?? Anyway I was just curious and thought I'd ask! Hey if you do use them, what do you know about MG using "Humanure" in their products? I was reading how the owner is very pro 'humanure" and was planning on incorporating it into his brand or something...Also the owner somehow scooped up 'General Hydroponics' and 'Vermicrop' 2 companies I would never have thought would be under the Miracle Gro umbrella.

MGRox · Feb 24, 2016

@Lazerus00 :D Yea MGRox was initially supposed to be a joke as, I knew it was pretty hated online. I HAD used MG for many years previously, but when I came on the forum; I wanted to do it "correctly" lol. So, the first year and a half of being as MGRox; I didn't use MG nor thought that I would ever again.
The joke backfired and ended up being on me, when I finally was able to isolate urea (or multiple N forms rather) as the key with my past numbers.
Guess I'm still testing formulas for differing N forms and most all those still have MG (excluding lower NH4 shown previously 60%-10%-30%). Overall I'm pretty comfortable with MG and don't look bad on it at all. $2.00 per lb with a nutrient density of 48%, can't beat that.

As far as Humanure. No clue. I could see how maybe some people could lump Urea into that; though not technically the case. All the farm crops around here are using that though, sigh. I would doubt that regulations would ever allow such a product to be packaged for retail sale. Or at least, it would have to be processed and sterilized to the extent that another name would probably be slapped on it lol. I would highly doubt that Scotts makes any significant changes to GH's line.

Edit: I should clarify though that I consider salts the same, in general. So, I'm not "partial" to any brand. Whichever lower cost product(s) allow me to hit ppm profiles that I'm looking for; is the product(s) I will use, for that particular profile.

SeaF0ur · Feb 24, 2016

Lazerus00 said:
@SeaF0ur

I actually found one better.....www.doyourownpestcontrol.com has the nozzle for $38.50 no tax and free shipping!! Woo Hoo!!! Thank you for your earlier post, it made me take the time to check other site prices instead of just ordering from the manufacturers website!! With this price here I will be saving just under $20!! Feeling pretty darn good!!

as long as its the # 3-2077 nozzle you're all good.

for those who missed Jupiter last night, the pic is mine, the video is not.

BlackSheepOG · Feb 24, 2016

SeaF0ur said:
as long as its the # 3-2077 nozzle you're all good.

for those who missed Jupiter last night, the pic is mine, the video is not.

View attachment 575869

I tried to go photograph it but it was to cloudy where I was. I was sad. Looked like a huge halo around the moon in the sky last night.

Lazerus00 · Feb 24, 2016

SeaF0ur said:
as long as its the # 3-2077 nozzle you're all good.

for those who missed Jupiter last night, the pic is mine, the video is not.

View attachment 575869

Thanks a lot! And yes it is the right model. After reading your post last night I rolled a spliff put on my sweats and got all bundled up to go out in the snow and blaze while checking Jupiter out but alas like a dummy I didn't look outside first and just my luck the cloud coverage was way to thick to see even a single star....still blazed out in the snow, reminded me of when I was a lil tyke and had to sneak outside to smoke.... Thanks for posting the pic and vid!

Lazerus00 · Feb 24, 2016

MGRox said:
@Lazerus00 :D Yea MGRox was initially supposed to be a joke as, I knew it was pretty hated online. I HAD used MG for many years previously, but when I came on the forum; I wanted to do it "correctly" lol. So, the first year and a half of being as MGRox; I didn't use MG nor thought that I would ever again.
The joke backfired and ended up being on me, when I finally was able to isolate urea (or multiple N forms rather) as the key with my past numbers.
Guess I'm still testing formulas for differing N forms and most all those still have MG (excluding lower NH4 shown previously 60%-10%-30%). Overall I'm pretty comfortable with MG and don't look bad on it at all. $2.00 per lb with a nutrient density of 48%, can't beat that.

As far as Humanure. No clue. I could see how maybe some people could lump Urea into that; though not technically the case. All the farm crops around here are using that though, sigh. I would doubt that regulations would ever allow such a product to be packaged for retail sale. Or at least, it would have to be processed and sterilized to the extent that another name would probably be slapped on it lol. I would highly doubt that Scotts makes any significant changes to GH's line.

Edit: I should clarify though that I consider salts the same, in general. So, I'm not "partial" to any brand. Whichever lower cost product(s) allow me to hit ppm profiles that I'm looking for; is the product(s) I will use, for that particular profile.

Thank you for explaining brother! I am all for all the natural and organic farming methods but the idea of using a heaping log of shit that Joe Blow shat out the night before is just a lil much for me! I don't see why you would ever HAVE to use human waste for manure when there are so many animals who's waste makes excellent manure! That being said, if I lived in Alaska somewhere in the middle of nowhere I would most deff take advantage of using one of those composting toilets but that would be bc getting anything else would prove too difficult!

SeaF0ur · Feb 24, 2016

the city of milwaukee sells its citizens shit as "milorganite"

...they call it an "organic" fertilizer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorganite

Stumpy420 · Feb 24, 2016

is brown residue and muck in a rez algae? I'm starting to thing that I'm having problems I lost about all my clones that I took and want to figure out what I'm doing.
I'm using a fish tank and I cover it with a translucent trash bag to get the 100% rh and take it off and air it out once a day. is it cause I used like 300-400 ppm and gave the bad bacteria something to feed on? I used some great white in the water, thinking it's good bacteria, but it seems to muck it up.

to try and fix it I got them in plain faucet water (159ppm out of tap). anything like a weak h2o2 mix or something for protection?

am I correct that it looks like black death infection traveling up the stem?

Stumpy420 · Feb 24, 2016

the skinny ones that look healthy were cut from bottom. all the others were middle and above.

mom's are still huge with plenty to give so throwing everything out isn't a problem

SeaF0ur · Feb 24, 2016

do you just angle cut them?

I always make small knicks in the stem and peel the bottom quarter inch like string cheese....

I also cannot stress enough that not all cuts are equal and you should only clone from good looking strong branches... not larf.

BlackSheepOG · Feb 24, 2016

Burning white as snow....

Tnelz thread about whatever!

Tnelz thread about whatever!

SeaF0ur

BlackSheepOG

drewski85

BlackSheepOG

SeaF0ur

BlackSheepOG

Lazerus00

BlackSheepOG

MGRox

Lazerus00

MGRox

SeaF0ur

BlackSheepOG

Lazerus00

Lazerus00

SeaF0ur

Stumpy420

Stumpy420

SeaF0ur

BlackSheepOG

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