Trees and Aero

MediMary · May 27, 2010

Im so excited to see a step by step = )

Boylobster · May 27, 2010

tree farmer said:
i didnt take pics last time i built this system but i will be taking pics as i build the system this time.

you listed some good reasons for HP aero but one you never mentioned is they are expensive to setup but once setup are the cheapest system to run. that goes for nutes, ro water used, and electricity. and very litlte chance of a failure is you use quality parts and set it up properly. yes my new system will be near silent. all you will hear for 4 days is the pssst of the misters firing.

Haha, hey, you're only putting more pressure on yourself to produce a killer tutorial, bud. :D In all seriousness, I had wondered if High Pressure would be more efficient in terms of water and nutrient use... I'm salivating at the thought. If you want to share, you'll have an attentive audience, for sure. :)

squarepusher · May 27, 2010

i was considering setting up a tree grow with TAG. You mention you will be using 125-150 gallon chambers??? could you elaborate a bit on that, is that for 1 plant ?

was thinking of a chamber like this

27 gallon, do you think could support a tree?
How many misters per tree do you use?

thx, nice looking setup

squarepusher · May 30, 2010

Tree Farmer, I wanted to add another question in addition to my above post. Say if I were to use a 27 gallon tote such as the one pictured above, and place my plant in a 4" netpot using aero.

Would the roots naturally fill the bucket and be suspended in air to the sides? Or do they simply drop from the bottom of the netpot to the floor (ie: the side space wont be used to fill up the tote).

and if so they they fall to the ground, would it be possible to design a type of screen to "Scrog" the roots, so they distribute evenly in the tote?

tree farmer · Jun 1, 2010

squarepusher said:
i was considering setting up a tree grow with TAG. You mention you will be using 125-150 gallon chambers??? could you elaborate a bit on that, is that for 1 plant ?

was thinking of a chamber like this

27 gallon, do you think could support a tree?
How many misters per tree do you use?

thx, nice looking setup

i plan on building the chambers big enough for a couple different arrangements. approx. 18 cubic ft. this size will be for one tree, 6 in a circular vertical arrangement around a 600 or 9 with a horizontal light.

my previous chambers were 22 gallons so i dont think 27 gallons is big enough for a large tree. the mist dispersion becomes compromised to early into the run

i had 4 misters in 22 gallons but the number of misters for a given sized container is really dependant on the mister output and how much area it will cover.

the roots will go out about 4 inches reaching for the misters and then drop to the floor then crawl the walls and even onto the top of the container if they have something to grab onto. it does depend on the mist though. if not controlled enough and fine enough the roots will just drop to the bottom and mat.
scrogging roots is definently possible and something i would do if doing a tree arrangement but dont think ill do it with the other arrangements as the ladies wont spend as much time in the chamber as a tree would.

UCMENOW · Jun 1, 2010

Respect

I can't help but feel inspired to learn more about your style of Aero....it's like finally finding the REAL version of something.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge...looking forward to lots more authentic aeroponics to come. :)

pacog · Jun 2, 2010

Tree farmer. Excellent set up man. Gonna have to go to RUI and check out your thread there.

What about a Combo of Fog and HP mist???? Or would the Fog not be necessary with the HP set up?

I am looking into doing a 20gal Bucket Flood and Drain with Fog( maybe LP aero, but I have the controller parts for Flood and Drain already). Can't afford to run an HP system yet.

tree farmer · Jun 2, 2010

pacog said:
Tree farmer. Excellent set up man. Gonna have to go to RUI and check out your thread there.

What about a Combo of Fog and HP mist???? Or would the Fog not be necessary with the HP set up?

I am looking into doing a 20gal Bucket Flood and Drain with Fog( maybe LP aero, but I have the controller parts for Flood and Drain already). Can't afford to run an HP system yet.

from my understanding of aero roots fog gives to small of a droplet size which causes an excess of overly fine root hairs and doesnt result in overall yield gains. if you look into peoples grows who have tried using fog only they have run into problems.
a good nozzle will have a wide array of droplet sizes from as low as 5 micron up to 80 micron. research has indicated that plants seem to respond best with most of the droplets in the 30-80 micron range and 50 micron being the ideal rangeto have the largest percentage of droplets at. fog is usually all under 15 microns so its not nessecary imo. Hp can be run on its own without the addition of fog.

lp aero in a 20 gallon container can grow some large plants. if you are doing flood and drain i dont think the fog will enhance the yield much if any. id say just do the flood and drain and you should get some decent returns and save some added expense that the fog would add.

the thread at riu has been closed. it turned into chaos so it was closed.

Jalisco Kid · Jun 2, 2010

Did you have a noticeable difference in your hp run over your past lp runs? JK

tree farmer · Jun 3, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
Did you have a noticeable difference in your hp run over your past lp runs? JK

as far as total yield if thats what your asking the answer is no. But i spent years working lp aero and strains to get the large trees i had back then. i dont have the parameters met to take advantage of the system potential in place yet. i can see a whole lot of benefits over my lp aero systems that i will take advantage of but it will take more time and experience.

even if i dont get larger yields than my lp systems i would still run HP because it has many advantages over my lp systems and i think these will be evident when my new system is finished.
just to give you an idea of some of the benefits over lp that the new system will have in place. i will never need to worry about a chiller. i can run DTW and waste less than a couple toilet flushes a day. i can have the system so nothing runs but 20 watt selonoids for 4 days at a time. the whole system can run for a week on a 100 amp hr battery if the power failed. almost silient except for every 4 days when ill kick the pump in for less than 15 minutes to charge the tanks. these are just some of the benifits i see over my lp systems.

squarepusher · Jun 3, 2010

hey TF

you should try that scrog idea for the roots using something like this

attach that to the bottom side of the bucket lid, just beneath the netpot. Make some cut out's for where your sprayers would go so the spray is uninhibited, then bam. The oots will populate the entire bucket volume with this eventually, increasing your root mass and volume many times over

Lost · Jun 3, 2010

I love it, pm sent. Please teach me!

Jalisco Kid · Jun 3, 2010

I would think you would need to have layers the screen. I roots would go thru one screen in a heartbeat.

I wish I had been able to quiet my system enough as I liked the growth. With running the amount of light needed I gave up on worrying about power consumption.
Hope you get the chance to get where you feel it's done. JK

squarepusher · Jun 3, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
I would think you would need to have layers the screen. I roots would go thru one screen in a heartbeat.

I wish I had been able to quiet my system enough as I liked the growth. With running the amount of light needed I gave up on worrying about power consumption.
Hope you get the chance to get where you feel it's done. JK

we purposely want the roots to hang down from the screen.
All the screen does is allow the roots at the top of the bucket to move sideways, then dangle down So the screen would be at the very top of the bucket, and the roots would travel from the netpot, sideways across the screen to fill the entire screen area with roots. After this, they would just drop down normally to the floor, this allows for efficient volume usage in a tub system.

Lost · Jun 3, 2010

So maybe 3 levels.. 4 including bottom?

Have you considered a drain level around 5 inches to allow for a dwc and aero effect? Just to clarify do the foggers run 24/7 or just 5 seconds every 5 minutes? I would really like to build one of these, looking for more info!!

pacog · Jun 3, 2010

tree farmer said:
from my understanding of aero roots fog gives to small of a droplet size which causes an excess of overly fine root hairs and doesnt result in overall yield gains. if you look into peoples grows who have tried using fog only they have run into problems.
a good nozzle will have a wide array of droplet sizes from as low as 5 micron up to 80 micron. research has indicated that plants seem to respond best with most of the droplets in the 30-80 micron range and 50 micron being the ideal rangeto have the largest percentage of droplets at. fog is usually all under 15 microns so its not nessecary imo. Hp can be run on its own without the addition of fog.

lp aero in a 20 gallon container can grow some large plants. if you are doing flood and drain i dont think the fog will enhance the yield much if any. id say just do the flood and drain and you should get some decent returns and save some added expense that the fog would add.

the thread at riu has been closed. it turned into chaos so it was closed.

TF... Thanks for the response man. Good to know these things and not waste time that is not needed.

The reasons I was considering the Fog is because I have An Areomist Complete system sitting gathering Dust and Figured I could use the Fogger for something. Might just have to sell the system ansd use the money for HP set up.

As for the HP set up instead of Getting Super Trick like your set up currently is would a basic set up like the following do the trick? Also would the Mister's they use work for an Aero set up. Might be easy to Adapt one of their complete Kits to a system? Sound is not an issue for me at this time. Eventually I would Love to construct something Similar to what you are working towards!!

http://www.advancedmistingsystems.com/mist_pumps.html

Also so what do you feel the best Size Container would be for 1 single plant. Need to start planning ahead now. I have an Idea for building the Chambers just need to start a prototype.

Thanks again for all your help and sharing your knowlede with the Farm. The Farm Rules!!!

Green81 · Jun 3, 2010

Looks like another possible DD eureka moment, hope the farm does get a tutorial on High-pressure mister units, keep up the hard work Tree Farmer.

g81

tree farmer · Jun 3, 2010

hey farmers i appriciate the interest and i will show my new design and go thru how it operates which will answer alot of questions but you have to give me some time to get it built. i also work full time and only have a very limited amount of time each night to check the forumns and build so be paitient because like they say a pic is worth a thousand words.

Loudblunts · Jun 3, 2010

lol look at em choosin

good job TF

ResinGoat · Jun 4, 2010

hey TF, love your setup. TAG is certainly king of the methods for the reasons you mentioned earlier. one day i hope to get there, but i gotta first gotta learn the ropes of LP and like they say "you gotta crawl before you walk". haha.

at any rate i'm gonna read the big thread over at RIU, because i think you should at least be aware of the principles of TAG to get better results with LP.

any tips for the LP users?

Trees and Aero

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Trees and Aero

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