U/V light filter in MPB reservoir

[Loudblunts]

Papa,
.....

Loudblunts- please stay with us, I am interested in what you have to say, and I am also interested in hearing conflicting opinions and appreciate a forum where people can feel free to speak freely without fear of ridicule or abusive responses. i would hate to make ANYONE feel that their opinion is not valid, or that they arent intelligent.

aint going no where buddy

----
Billy Liar, like i told you in PM, everything is copastetic... not tripping at all.... just remember what momma said... never make your words too hard... you may have to eat them :D We are cool and no hard feelings. Everything is everything

p.s. Billy... you know you kinda wasted ya breath on posting that article right? You do realize that everything that was in that article... i've already said, right?

So what again, what was the problem with what I said?

----

Thanks for the info billy....Great article...

Loudblunts- You are in dd mpb forum so who cares if we follow his lead or not...With the amount of $ being invested in these systems you better believe I am going to follow his blueprint with almost no deviations..

mc




mc

wayyyy to go mcattak!!!!!!! you have FURTHER proven and cemented my point about cosigning/bandwagoning/hopping on sacs

What in the hell does that what you posted have anything to do with anything?

furthermore....out of ALL the informative post and knowledge i've posted on this matter.... this is the only thing you respond to...

IRONICALLY, you tell billy what a great article.... yet everything thas in the article/ quote that billy copy and pasted is EXACTLY EVERYTHING i said.... with me making it easier on yall by me summarizing it...

Irony at it finest

:D

 

[jack the reaper]

Billy, thanks again for your post. some of my ideas about DO and pythium were supported by the article and i was also reminded again of the relation between temp and DO and i thought the idea of oxygen "starvation" as the solution temp rises while the plants metabolisim increases helped me understand the phenomena better.

one thing that stood out was the idea that SHORTER runs of tubing were recommended to help maintain higher DO levels, while i have also read that longer runs of drainage pipe (my 4"ABS, for example) will give the water more surface area and increase oxygenation.
i guess there is also a balance to strike between a drainage/return system that contributes to oxygenation and one that might be so big or curved or slow that there are areas where pathogens can take hold and colonize.
good food for thought and thanks again for sharing.
jr

 

[Loudblunts]

so jack... you still gonna try the UV sterilizer? if so which one ya gonna try?

 

[jack the reaper]

so jack... you still gonna try the UV sterilizer? if so which one ya gonna try?

i dont think i will. i have recently placed that green spray fan (in pix on my garden thread) on my chiller return and this has slowed the flow rate of my chiller, now it is keeping the temp at 64F. it also causes the water to be formed into dozens of tiny streams that splash pretty aggressively back to the res., this should keep the DO levels up.
i have been thinking of the best way to cover my res with 2in styrofoam type R-board, this will help with the temps too.
i am looking at ways to eliminate hot spots in the bloom room, i think a few strategically placed fans should do the trick.
and i will be following DDs nute schedule next time around, including the use of benies/enzymes to contribute to the strength and vigor of the plants.

my problem this time around was the heat produced by my lights AND a/c. once i get that dialed and properly exhausted i think i will be seeing dramatically improved growth.

if that doesnt work i will consider alternatives, of which UV might be one.

 

[Loudblunts]

fasho

hope everything turns out how you like it


any particular beneficial bacteria gonna use? same question for your enzymes

 

[jack the reaper]

i think i would like to try roots excelerator and multizen, do you have any experience/opinion on these?

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Why not peroxide? It does mention in the article that Billy Liar posted (Thanks BL, Great post) that peroxide can break down some forms of nutrient. Why does no one seem to know which nutrients?

Peroxide will destroy pythium. It increases DO like crazy and looses it's DO as temps increase at a decreased rate. I've run h202 in my cloner (2ml gal, 29%) with the water at 83 degrees and guess what, no pythium, no brown roots, just healthy clones in some warm ass water.

I've used roots before and I like peroxide better. roots just coats the roots in a protective film and it costs an arm and a fuggin leg. Peroxide is cheap.

So, no mention of peroxide? Why don't you guys like it or use it? Is it because DD uses bennies and enzymes? I don't believe bennies can establish themselves very well in hydro. If you ask me, run the H&G algen (norwegian seaweed, AN), skip the bennies, and run h202. pearly white roots commin' fo yo ass!

 

[Loudblunts]

i think i would like to try roots excelerator and multizen, do you have any experience/opinion on these?

i use the whole h&g line.

roots excellurator is worth its weight in gold.... multizen...well lets just say im on the fence about that one...

roots excellurator is more of a rooting stimulator.

for your beneficial bacteria choice, great white is a good one...

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm dropping the $$ on RE now, too, Lb. It really is worth it, and it eliminates the need for other products such as rooting hormones.

i think i would like to try roots excelerator and multizen, do you have any experience/opinion on these?

RE is not a source of beneficial bacteria. Don't know about the Multizen, but I know RE is not that.

 

[Loudblunts]

yah agree with SM... RE is a rooting stimulator jack.... with that said i think all gardens should use one... more specifically RE

she is right, RE is not your bennies. Great White as previously mentioned is some nice stuff... its beneficial bacteria

your Multizym/zen is your enzymes. Canna's equivalent would be Cannazym.

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Great white has alot of what looks like sand that doesn't dissolve. BAD for your pumps. H&G is like any of the other high end nute suppliers. You can get the basic ingredient for 1/10th of the price. Look up acophyllum nodosum powder, that's exactly what the H&G algen is for WAY less. I used the RE and I wasn't impressed, especially for the frekin rape my face pricetag. It's probably just another drain cleaner hormone derivative. Did you read the label on the RE? Derived from lye and ammonium nitrate. Hormones (It has them, yes, it has them). Buy hormex, it's cheaper.

Humates and peroxide do just as good if not better of a job from what I have experienced.

 

[HG23]

Mr.Sputnik,

DD's nutrient thread recommends using RE, algen, multizen, and bud blood, big bud and overdrive for the different enhancers at their correct stages. Do you think it would work to to cut the RE and use peroxide even with the multi zen and other products?

 

[Lost]

Great white has alot of what looks like sand that doesn't dissolve. BAD for your pumps. H&G is like any of the other high end nute suppliers. You can get the basic ingredient for 1/10th of the price. Look up acophyllum nodosum powder, that's exactly what the H&G algen is for WAY less. I used the RE and I wasn't impressed, especially for the frekin rape my face pricetag. It's probably just another drain cleaner hormone derivative. Did you read the label on the RE? Derived from lye and ammonium nitrate. Hormones (It has them, yes, it has them). Buy hormex, it's cheaper.

Humates and peroxide do just as good if not better of a job from what I have experienced.

I gotta disagree with the great white comments. The "Sand" left behind is a colony of bene's and its not sand, its like powder, no harm to pumps..

And good luck finding a cheap alternative to RE, and it does not contain hormones. Says so on the label...

 

[Lost]

Why not peroxide? It does mention in the article that Billy Liar posted (Thanks BL, Great post) that peroxide can break down some forms of nutrient. Why does no one seem to know which nutrients?

Peroxide will destroy pythium. It increases DO like crazy and looses it's DO as temps increase at a decreased rate. I've run h202 in my cloner (2ml gal, 29%) with the water at 83 degrees and guess what, no pythium, no brown roots, just healthy clones in some warm ass water.

I've used roots before and I like peroxide better. roots just coats the roots in a protective film and it costs an arm and a fuggin leg. Peroxide is cheap.

So, no mention of peroxide? Why don't you guys like it or use it? Is it because DD uses bennies and enzymes? I don't believe bennies can establish themselves very well in hydro. If you ask me, run the H&G algen (norwegian seaweed, AN), skip the bennies, and run h202. pearly white roots commin' fo yo ass!

Your bolded statement is just incorrect, they establish quite nicely.. I could care less what DD's actually uses. Its a great starting point, but reality is you need to find what works for you and your environment.

I did dead res for awhile and yes it works but to say that it is better than a living ecosystem for your roots, no way. Much more flavor and potency when I moved away from dead res. :)

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Mr.Sputnik,

DD's nutrient thread recommends using RE, algen, multizen, and bud blood, big bud and overdrive for the different enhancers at their correct stages. Do you think it would work to to cut the RE and use peroxide even with the multi zen and other products?

Yes, I've done it before and it worked just fine. I ended up getting the best of both worlds, running the sterile res for ease of maintenance and using an enzyme to increase flavor. the enzyme I used was Dark Energy instead of Multizen. I've heard time and time again that this won't work, that the peroxide destroys the enzymes and anything that is organic in your res. Well, this is somewhat true but the peroxide doesn't kill everything. you need to wait 15 min after you have added h202 to your water (add it first) before you add anything else. I've used enzymes, humates, and seaweed as flavor enhancers with peroxide and it's worked fantastically. Most people who tell you not to do it haven't tried it themselves. I have and guess what, it worked. I'm not exactly sure what the peroxide is destroying and what it's not, but I received the good flavor and increased growth benefits associated with enzymes, humates, and seaweed. I don't think the peroxide vaporized everything like some folks think. If that was the case, then why doesn't it destroy the roots? I was running about 14 stand alone 5 gallon DWC buckets and on a hot day (88 in room temp) the water temps would approach 80 degrees. No root funk. Try 80 degrees with bennies and you're screwed.

I am very cautious about using any product that is supposed to work wonders and be the best "______" on the market. They typically require you to use very little, less than 1ml per gallon in solution. This is the typical measurement for a hormone, >1ml gallon.

Lost, I can't find where it says "no hormones" on either the RE or the Gravity. Maybe we get different lables in CO, but It's not on the label here. I'm going to stop accusing these companies of using hormones and have my friend test these products in the lab to get a definitive answer. I've stopped using any additive unless it is just seaweed or humates after my incident with the Gravity.

There are two schools of thought here, sterile res or live res. I run a sterile res, but I don't think it's "dead". It has worked for me, but maybe it won't work for you. There's plenty of flavor and potency to be had with a sterile res if you know how to doctor it up and work with the system. I'm sure it tastes better than a plant that has pythium or root funk and you run that risk with a live res unless you've got your system dialed in to a T and even then it's not a guarantee. I prefer my bennies in the dirt, premixed in water with molasses and left for a day or two in a cool dark place. It's just another way to skin the cat. Live res and dead res take your pic, they both work well. I prefer the latter.

 

[Loudblunts]

if you run h2o2 with RE, algen, multizen, and bud blood, big bud and overdrive and if those are organic... you are wasting your money.... dont care how you slice it

you cant have your cake then eat it too in reference to saying 'h2o2 destroys all the nasty pathogens'....yet you claim it doesnt touch your beneficial bacteria? thas a crock of shit.

lets go back to basics. chemistry 101.... look up h2o2. its an oxidizer....it releases the highly unstable o2 molecule that is loosely attached which what makes up h2o2, this is how the oxidizing or 'cleaning' takes place basically rendering them (everything beneficial and non beneficial) useless.

furthermore, h2o2 cannot rid your system of pathogen solely based on its use. it will only keep pathogens at 'bay'. aka this is just another bandaid and not a fix. like i've said previously roots like cold water and high D.O. levels.... not warm water and h2o2. So sure you can use it.... as there are 50 billion ways to skin the cannabis cat... however this reminds me of something like: "sure!!! of course you can ride a tricycle to cali...... but why"

so guess what? all that money that you spent on additives, if even the slightest bit organic then you are going to spend extra money by buying h2o2 just to use it on the money you already spent (organic nutes and additives)

im in total agreement with Lost here in reference to the GW & RE, Great White may be gritty but that is the good stuff and it will not fuck up pumps..... not to mention his comment about RE...good luck finding a cheap replacement for that...... if it was really that easy, dont you think others would be hoping on dick faster than a prostitute?

not to mention.... you are prolly the first dude who i heard say that roots excellurator doesnt work or wasnt impressed by it.....

also, im being lazy and didnt feel like typing... so ill just copy and paste

"Corrosiveness of hydrogen peroxide

The corrosiveness of process water due to hydrogen peroxide depends on the amount of dissolved oxygen that is produced. Oxygen corrodes iron-containing metals. The amount of iron and the pH are a greater influence on corrosiveness than the concentration of hydrogen peroxide is. "


Furthermore, Mr. Sputnik, you do realize that no matter how much you think you have a sterile res.... it really isnt sterile right? You do realize that your plants roots do have natural occuring beneficial bacteria that lives in the roots. When you are putting h2o2 in your res and you are spraying the roots.... you realize this is actually oxidizing your roots too? So in essence you arent allowing the plant to perform to its fullest potential.

This is why your roots look like spaghetti noodles instead of being fishboned and have fine hairs along the root system. You're killing them off with the h2o2

http://i237.invalid.com/albums/ff285/420630/test2/DSCN3738.jpg

http://i237.invalid.com/albums/ff285/420630/test2/DSCN3735.jpg

http://i237.invalid.com/albums/ff285/420630/test2/DSCN3733.jpg

 

[Loudblunts]

also, before you get offended and type up a long response..DONT DO IT..... remember... i dont have anything against your method... at all. :D

however i think its kinda irresponsible to say you can use h2o2 with semi organic stuff...

just needed to clear that up.

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Have you tried it, loudblunts? Did you see the pic of the clone above? Do those look like spaghetti? Have you tested water with h202 and X in it to see if X disappears? No. More theories. I get this every time I ask this question, from someone who has never tried it themselves. Stabilization happens in that first 15 minutes that I'm reffering to. Chemistry 101 is like all science, some theories should be correct but aren't. I gave you my experience. Don't try it yourself if you don't want to. I know it works, don't tell me it doesn't. I run it like that and guess what, you're wrong, it works. try it. try increasing your water temps to around 73-74 with h202, colder water means slower growth. I get so many roots I can't control them, the plants fill every container that I've put them in. peroxide is the shit and it's not $120 A LITER.

All I get is a bunch of theories. No one has tried it? and succeeded? I'm sorry, I must be a special grower. It's obvious you're not interested unless it comes straight from DD. Don't try anything inventive, you might succeed.

 

[Lost]

The cold water thing slowing growth is a misnomer. I can site the reference if needed. Your good down to somewhere in the 50's if I remember it correctly, however I can dig up the article. I believe it was the maximum yield from last month or the month before.. Too low of PH is also a misnomer untill you go below 4.0.

 

[Lost]

MrSputnik I have tried it. Check out my TUBGIRLS grow journal. I used UV and up to a point H2O2. It still works, and works well so we are kinda splitting hairs here to a certain extent. :)

I also don't understand why following DD's stuff to a T is a bad thing. Its proven and it works. Mess with it after you can pull dd's type yields right? I mean alot of have made tub changes but basically its still the same thing. If dd's was smart enough to come up with this system, don't you think he learned about it a bit at a time improving as he went? He's put in the R&D time so why replicate it? Its true that there are a million ways to skin a cat, but why skin one if you don't have to?