Upgrading lights

Buzzer777 · Feb 8, 2020

This is why you don't use a lux meter" on an LED

Buzzer777 · Feb 8, 2020

The site is messing up the links now.

Anthem · Feb 8, 2020

BigCube said:
A common formula is 35w per sq foot minimum.

5x5=25×35=875

Almost double what you have.

I am at just under 29 watts of true watts with quality LEDS and it is enough IMO

Buzzer777 · Feb 8, 2020

Personally I go with 50+per sq ft with my own. (Kingbrite 240s x2 and a single Unitfarm UFO80 at 175watts, of higher end burple)
Not a burple fan, but that thing rocks and adds something to the grow, but I can't put my finger on it.

MIGrampaUSA · Feb 8, 2020

Anthem said:
I am at just under 29 watts of true watts with quality LEDS and it is enough IMO

It may be enough with quality LEDS, but if you were to boost that to lets say 40-50 watts per square foot using the same quality LEDS, wouldn't this provide you with better light penetration and ultimately a better yield?

I'm not questioning whether 29 watts is adequate ... just pointing out that with lighting "more = better results" usually ...

Anthem · Feb 8, 2020

MIGrampaUSA said:
It may be enough with quality LEDS, but if you were to boost that to lets say 40-50 watts per square foot using the same quality LEDS, wouldn't this provide you with better light penetration and ultimately a better yield?

I'm not questioning whether 29 watts is adequate ... just pointing out that with lighting "more = better results" usually ...

Honestly I have another setup with 42.5 watts per foot and the plants will not handle the lights at 100 percent.

MIGrampaUSA · Feb 8, 2020

Anthem said:
Honestly I have another setup with 42.5 watts per foot and the plants will not handle the lights at 100 percent.

I'd rather be in that situation where I'm using a dimmer to keep the plants happy than to not have enough lighting. I see nothing wrong with 42.5 watts per foot available ... running at 75-80%

maximusluminous · Feb 8, 2020

MIGrampaUSA said:
It may be enough with quality LEDS, but if you were to boost that to lets say 40-50 watts per square foot using the same quality LEDS, wouldn't this provide you with better light penetration and ultimately a better yield?

I'm not questioning whether 29 watts is adequate ... just pointing out that with lighting "more = better results" usually ...

Im running 2 260xl HLG Rspec set ups over a 4.5' x 4.5' area, call it 20ft2 @ 520 wall watts = less than 26 watts per ft2. I'm also running a 320 watt 4 puck chilled/Growma5 set up & a 320 watt HLG 3 board Rspec set up over a 4.5' x 4.5' area so 20ft2 @ 640 watts = 32 watts per ft2. Over another 4.5' x 4.5' area Im running a chinese 480 watt 3' x 3' led 8 bar light fixture (like 510 watts at the wall) so basically the same as the 2 HLG 260xl rspec set ups together, 26 watts per ft2. then over another 4.5' x 4.5' area I have a 1000 SE SHPS (about 1100 watts at the wall) so I'm running just under 50 watts per ft2 with it & it does not in anyway out do the LED's at 26 to 32 watts per ft2. As a matter of fact the LED's out yield the SHPS per ft2.

MIGrampaUSA · Feb 8, 2020

maximusluminous said:
Im running 2 260xl HLG Rspec set ups over a 4.5' x 4.5' area, call it 20ft2 @ 520 wall watts = less than 26 watts per ft2. I'm also running a 320 watt 4 puck chilled/Growma5 set up & a 320 watt HLG 3 board Rspec set up over a 4.5' x 4.5' area so 20ft2 @ 640 watts = 32 watts per ft2. Over another 4.5' x 4.5' area Im running a chinese 480 watt 3' x 3' led 8 bar light fixture (like 510 watts at the wall) so basically the same as the 2 HLG 260xl rspec set ups together, 26 watts per ft2. then over another 4.5' x 4.5' area I have a 1000 SE SHPS (about 1100 watts at the wall) so I'm running just under 50 watts per ft2 with it & it does not in anyway out do the LED's at 26 to 32 watts per ft2. As a matter of fact the LED's out yield the SHPS per ft2.

I would expect quality LEDS to out perform the SHPS. I would also expect to a point that adding more watts per ft2 of quality LEDS to boost light in the area would have a positive effect on growth and yield.

I'm comparing LEDS with using more LEDS, not LEDS with HID lighting.

Seraphine · Feb 8, 2020

When I added more lights, I about doubled my yields. Just saying that sometimes it is just lighting. I run 50-60watts per sq.ft.

maximusluminous · Feb 8, 2020

MIGrampaUSA said:
I would expect quality LEDS to out perform the SHPS. I would also expect to a point that adding more watts per ft2 of quality LEDS to boost light in the area would have a positive effect on growth and yield.

I'm comparing LEDS with using more LEDS, not LEDS with HID lighting.

to a point, anything over 1100 PPF is wasted & actually hurts your plants unless you are using co2 at 3x-4x atmospheric levels, if using co2 then up to 1500 PPF is useable so no adding more LED's won't always help if you are at max PPF already for your atmospheric conditions.

maximusluminous · Feb 8, 2020

People kill it with 800 PPF BTY & that doesn't take a whole lot of watts per ft2 to hit with good LED's. 1000 PPF is the target range with LED's & no co2

Matthewstever · Feb 8, 2020

I'm using 26.6w per sq Ft of canopy space. It's coming out of cheap floodlights, not grow lights. Daylight spectrum, I'm using 8, 100w led fixtures. It's covering 4 plants and a couple small clones.
The lights are arranged so each plant is getting hit by 3 lights. In my case, that's a ring of lights around the perimeter with no fixtures in the middle.
I'm noticing wonderful light penetration despite the "low" wattage. Nodes on some colas are stacked 8 and 9 deep where my prior arrangement only went half that deep..point being that how we use them can be equally as important as how intense they are. Plants are in 4 the week of 12/12...started as 6" clones, and vegged two weeks.
There are many paths that lead to where we want to go.

Buzzer777 · Feb 8, 2020

Matthewstever said:
I'm using 26.6w per sq Ft of canopy space. It's coming out of cheap floodlights, not grow lights. Daylight spectrum, I'm using 8, 100w led fixtures. It's covering 4 plants and a couple small clones.
The lights are arranged so each plant is getting hit by 3 lights. In my case, that's a ring of lights around the perimeter with no fixtures in the middle.
I'm noticing wonderful light penetration despite the "low" wattage. Nodes on some colas are stacked 8 and 9 deep where my prior arrangement only went half that deep..point being that how we use them can be equally as important as how intense they are. Plants are in 4 the week of 12/12...started as 6" clones, and vegged two weeks.
There are many paths that lead to where we want to go.

Not trying to be a dick, but that picture would not get me to run low wattage for my own grows.
This is my own cross..Strawberry Pebbles x BOG Sour Grape in week 4 with 50+ watts of mixed 3000k and 3500k proper light.
Since I am breeding this, I stressed the crap out of her to see what would happen..thus the 3 fingered leaves, but no hermie:)

Matthewstever · Feb 8, 2020

Yeah, you were, otherwise you'd have been more tactful. Lol
Believe me, I know the state of my grow. Is it optimal? Heck no. Does it work? Heck yes. And I've got less than $500 in my whole grow because I'm really poor.
And, these plants only vegged for 2 weeks. And I tried to freeze them to death....twice.
Personally, I think they're doing great, all things considered....and I certainly wasn't bragging, just trying to show what can be done on basically no budget. Not everyone can afford hundreds of dollars for good lights.
Since you took exception and decided to crap on my grow, perhaps you should do something about it and send me some good lights.
Thanks.

Buzzer777 · Feb 8, 2020

Matthewstever said:
Yeah, you were, otherwise you'd have been more tactful. Lol
Believe me, I know the state of my grow. Is it optimal? Heck no. Does it work? Heck yes. And I've got less than $500 in my whole grow because I'm really poor.
And, these plants only vegged for 2 weeks. And I tried to freeze them to death....twice.
Personally, I think they're doing great, all things considered....and I certainly wasn't bragging, just trying to show what can be done on basically no budget. Not everyone can afford hundreds of dollars for good lights.
Since you took exception and decided to crap on my grow, perhaps you should do something about it and send me some good lights.
Thanks.

I wasn't crapping on your grow..just setting the record straight about low wattage grows in flower.
Being on a fixed income....I don't send anyone anything anymore..but I have in the past for my grow students......LOL

Munch517 · Feb 8, 2020

Just to add a comparison I'm running 40w/sq ft with CO2, this is at 29 days into flower:

I'm not unhappy but I'm sure I could use just a bit more light before I'd be maxed out. Using my cheap lux meter I'd like to be at just over 100k lux across the canopy, measuring the lights at 5-6 inches I'm at ~110k lux directly below the light bars and maybe as low as ~65k-70k lux in between the bars.

Buzzer777 · Feb 8, 2020

Munch517 said:
Just to add a comparison I'm running 40w/sq ft with CO2, this is at 29 days into flower:

View attachment 939030 View attachment 939031

I'm not unhappy but I'm sure I could use just a bit more light before I'd be maxed out. Using my cheap lux meter I'd like to be at just over 100k lux across the canopy, measuring the lights at 5-6 inches I'm at ~110k lux directly below the light bars and maybe as low as ~65k-70k lux in between the bars.

BEAUTIFUL and well done!
My hat's off to the chef!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matthewstever · Feb 8, 2020

Mmhmm.

SkunkyDunk · Feb 9, 2020

Just for the record, considering what your running they DO look good.
I remember growing under T12's.
I too am on a fixed income these days.
And I can still get Mex weed for 350 lb but I don't because I don't have to.
So I spent my money unwisely a couple times but saved my nickels to upgrade.
All Buzz was saying was you'll never really get any great nugs untill you upgrade again.

Upgrading lights

Upgrading lights

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