using more watts in veg and reducing watts in flowering = better yield?

[LexLuthor]

Once again, proof positive that you haven't a clue what you don't know... do yourself a favor; go get this thing called an 'education.' Perhaps at that point we can have a fruitful discussion. Until then, you won't have the mental tools to understand that we're poking a collander's worth of holes in all your arguments and you'll just get grouchy. Pretty much a waste of time. And find another avatar; I like my deficiency chart!

There you go again :rolleyes: Always thinking the world revolves around you. I acually got the chart idea from Seamaiden, not you. I wasn't even responding to your post, but you always get an attitude when I have a different opinion then you and your BFF's.

 

[Dunge]

you haven't a clue what you don't know... do yourself a favor; go get this thing called an 'education.' you won't have the mental tools to understand

ttystikk: I am forcing you to read your words.

Clearly you are frustrated, but don't you think you owe us all an apology for insulting word choices.

 

[LexLuthor]

Life is not all about education, yeah it makes it easier to get a decent job with a better education, but thats about it. I know people from Afghanistan that had horrible educations and speak terrible English yet they are very successful business men. Your education level does not dictate what type of person you are, a Masters Degree will not make you a good person in life. I don't need a college education to voice my opinion on a website, isn't that what we are all doing here? Giving our opinions and having conversations with eachother, why are you so obsessed with insulting me and my education?? I apolagized to you and Squigg but neither one of you could accept it and you still want to start arguments. I'll just stop posting on this thread because I'm tired of this shit.

 

[glockdoc]

i personally asked someone who has been doing the 12-1 lighting schedule and they said that there not doing it anymore due to a 25% decrease in yield; although they did finish faster. if thats the case then IMO people are better off using 10/14 schedule.
never imagined this thread getting this much insight and great info! once again thanks all!

 

[ttystikk]

i personally asked someone who has been doing the 12-1 lighting schedule and they said that there not doing it anymore due to a 25% decrease in yield; although they did finish faster. if thats the case then IMO people are better off using 10/14 schedule.
never imagined this thread getting this much insight and great info! once again thanks all!

I haven't heard of the 10/14 schedule. Explain?

 

[Disambiguator]

G/KWH gives a more accurate reading of the total electrical expense to produce if the gr has a separate meter or if household use can be quantified and deducted. Otherwise, we've got a discrepancy. ec should be the standard measurement shared, even while knowing that ppm is more "appropriate" when organic molecules are present and in a strict sense, we are often not getting true or complete ec readings.

I'd also like to see a new standard of working measurements for base, organic nutrient materials to replace N-P-K-Ca-Mg w/ soluble and insoluble %'s of the elements after their compounds enter and break up into anions and cations in an H2O solution.

 

[waayne]

Gentlemen I suggest you all get back on the original topic of this thread.:)

 

[ttystikk]

G/KWH gives a more accurate reading of the total electrical expense to produce if the gr has a separate meter or if household use can be quantified and deducted. Otherwise, we've got a discrepancy. ec should be the standard measurement shared, even while knowing that ppm is more "appropriate" when organic molecules are present and in a strict sense, we are often not getting true or complete ec readings.

I'd also like to see a new standard of working measurements for base, organic nutrient materials to replace N-P-K-Ca-Mg w/ soluble and insoluble %'s of the elements after their compounds enter and break up into anions and cations in an H2O solution.

While good measurement standards are necessary and desirable, it's also important that the ones used are easily accessible to all without expensive testing gear. g/kWH is a good step in the right direction. EC is the best we can currently do with widely available and affordable instrumentation- and the way around the uncertainty of organic molecules is to simply list them and the proportions used. I'm planning to get a quantum meter for measuing PAR light- and even this small step up is $350 or more. If we insist on only the best data, we will end up with a vanishingly small dataset.

A lot of guys on here are using the above standard for N-P-K-Ca-Mg-(Sulphur). Look on Dank's thread, 'my thread can beat up yours...'

The problem with using a standard for organics is that the organics are INsoluble; they require microbes to break down, chelate and thus make them available for plant use. That Injects a lot of uncertainty, as does the vastly different rates of breakdown for different organic compounds. Even when dealing with THE SAME organic compound, bat guano for example, different sources have radically different profiles. Thus, while imperfect, using a conversion for effective quantities of known salts is the best we can do without extremely expensive lab equipment...

 

[glockdoc]

I haven't heard of the 10/14 schedule. Explain?

whatt!!??! never heard of it?!? of course you have. 12/12 is just the "in between" or a median/ standard to make it simple for us growers. this info i got from the old overgrow faq; but it goes something like this.....light IS directly related to yield and finish time. 12/12 being the "in between" is what we run with, while 10/14 will make you yield less but at the same time speeds up flowering time. 14/10 will give you a higher yield but result in a longer flowering time. now 12/12 being the middle is pretty much the best of both or the worst of both..idk.

 

[glockdoc]

Gentlemen I suggest you all get back on the original topic of this thread.:)

Lol. its cool, do as you guys please..i wanted some insight, and got a ton IMO. i think we're all waiting for someone to tell us something we dont know, or havent thought off. help us brainstorm wayne!

 

[ttystikk]

whatt!!??! never heard of it?!? of course you have. 12/12 is just the "in between" or a median/ standard to make it simple for us growers. this info i got from the old overgrow faq; but it goes something like this.....light IS directly related to yield and finish time. 12/12 being the "in between" is what we run with, while 10/14 will make you yield less but at the same time speeds up flowering time. 14/10 will give you a higher yield but result in a longer flowering time. now 12/12 being the middle is pretty much the best of both or the worst of both..idk.

Got it. Didn't have anything to reference the numbers to. I'm currently experimenting with emulating nature's shortening of days by starting with 12/12 (Sept 21), and then adding 15 minutes to dark time- and correspondingly shortening day length- on a weekly basis. At week 8, this equates to 10 hours, 15 minutes on and 13 hours, 45 minutes off.

I have no expectations for this approach, I just want to see how the plants respond to as close to natural conditions as I can easily manage indoors.

 

[waayne]

Ok
You guys sucked me in.........

I've experimented with alternative lighting schedules in the past and 12/12 is really just a median......

I've found for some strains I like 13 on and 11 off better than 12/12
The 13/11 cycle definitely lets some of my Indica dominants stretch out longer colas and bulk up more, but this also tends to turn a 9 week strain into a 10 week strain

Reducing the photoperiod as tyystikk is suggesting will speed up ripening but at the expense of some bulk,I used this approach for a couple of years as I thought it emulated nature a little better......It sped up each run but at the expense of some yield......

On the other hand I've used 11 on and 13 off for Hazes and other Sativa strains to help ripen them faster,the last few weeks I would reduce the photoperiod gradually as ttystikk is suggesting.This speeds up ripening but at the expense of a little yield........there's always, a tradeoff ;)

 

[Disambiguator]

I've run 13/11 w/ indica doms and concur w/ waayne. Borrow from Peter, pay Paul. 14 on is pushing the envelope for some strains. I settled in @ 12.5/11.5 for reasons that are unbeknown to me.

 

[dankworth]

I've run 13/11 w/ indica doms and concur w/ waayne. Borrow from Peter, pay Paul. 14 on is pushing the envelope for some strains. I settled in @ 12.5/11.5 for reasons that are unbeknown to me.

My first run I successfully flowered under a 13.5 hour day.

 

[glockdoc]

Got it. Didn't have anything to reference the numbers to. I'm currently experimenting with emulating nature's shortening of days by starting with 12/12 (Sept 21), and then adding 15 minutes to dark time- and correspondingly shortening day length- on a weekly basis. At week 8, this equates to 10 hours, 15 minutes on and 13 hours, 45 minutes off.

I have no expectations for this approach, I just want to see how the plants respond to as close to natural conditions as I can easily manage indoors.

i think the best way to get good yield with avg yield times is by doing what your doing. on ur next run you should start at 14/10 for a decent amount of time, then do what your doing and IMO it will call for +yield with avg finish times. shit if i got to try it 1st i will !

Ok
You guys sucked me in.........

I've experimented with alternative lighting schedules in the past and 12/12 is really just a median......

I've found for some strains I like 13 on and 11 off better than 12/12
The 13/11 cycle definitely lets some of my Indica dominants stretch out longer colas and bulk up more, but this also tends to turn a 9 week strain into a 10 week strain

Reducing the photoperiod as tyystikk is suggesting will speed up ripening but at the expense of some bulk,I used this approach for a couple of years as I thought it emulated nature a little better......It sped up each run but at the expense of some yield......

On the other hand I've used 11 on and 13 off for Hazes and other Sativa strains to help ripen them faster,the last few weeks I would reduce the photoperiod gradually as ttystikk is suggesting.This speeds up ripening but at the expense of a little yield........there's always, a tradeoff ;)

thanks for joining us in our discussion! i have a question, did u notice more of a yield too as well as a longer flowering time?

I've run 13/11 w/ indica doms and concur w/ waayne. Borrow from Peter, pay Paul. 14 on is pushing the envelope for some strains. I settled in @ 12.5/11.5 for reasons that are unbeknown to me.

from research i have done 14 is only pushing it with pure sativas. from what i understand you have to make the veg to flower time drop dramatic down to 14 hrs with no harm. so you start veg out at 24/0 for a few weeks; then a 10 hr drop to 14/10, would send any plant into flowering. it may = more KWH, but that only calls for more grams if measurement is grams per kwh. it is true to some extent though, that evolution can sometimes take its toll, just like if u grew a 12 week strain in new england for multiple years ( grandparent, parent, children...and so on) eventually that plant would finish up for you within the time it need to, so yes if breeders use 12/12 for generations over and over then thats why some plants every now and then will require less then 14 hrs to flower. pure sativas are just sativas and would probably throw out reveg flowers even under 10/14 schedule.

My first run I successfully flowered under a 13.5 hour day.

see! whats an half hour...? really.. do you remember what you did for veg hours?

thanks all!

 

[dankworth]

i think the best way to get good yield with avg yield times is by doing what your doing. on ur next run you should start at 14/10 for a decent amount of time, then do what your doing and IMO it will call for +yield with avg finish times. shit if i got to try it 1st i will !

thanks for joining us in our discussion! i have a question, did u notice more of a yield too as well as a longer flowering time?

from research i have done 14 is only pushing it with pure sativas. from what i understand you have to make the veg to flower time drop dramatic down to 14 hrs with no harm. so you start veg out at 24/0 for a few weeks; then a 10 hr drop to 14/10, would send any plant into flowering. it may = more KWH, but that only calls for more grams if measurement is grams per kwh. it is true to some extent though, that evolution can sometimes take its toll, just like if u grew a 12 week strain in new england for multiple years ( grandparent, parent, children...and so on) eventually that plant would finish up for you within the time it need to, so yes if breeders use 12/12 for generations over and over then thats why some plants every now and then will require less then 14 hrs to flower. pure sativas are just sativas and would probably throw out reveg flowers even under 10/14 schedule.

see! whats an half hour...? really.. do you remember what you did for veg hours?

thanks all!

24 hour veg.

 

[glockdoc]

score!

 

[glockdoc]

thanks for speedy reply

 

[ttystikk]

There are a lot of intriguing opportunities for experiment here, especially if we widen the horizon a bit by not adhering to a 24 hour clock. I know a few companies put out longer duration cycle timers, so why not do like 14 to 24 hours of light, and then anywhere from 10 to 14 hours of darkness, depending on what stage you're at and what you're trying to do? Yes, it would be hard to keep straight when you need to go in and work on them, but this offers a chance to increase dark length near the end of flower, without reducing the total average time the plants spend in daylight!

So- is this having your cake, and eating it too? Maybe...

You could even time paired rooms on a flip by running shorter durations at the beginning of flowering and lengthening them towards the end. Daylight length would also increase in both rooms, which could help offset smaller yields. So for example, you could run each room on for 10 hours each, then increase both rooms' cycle times by 30 minutes a week. By the eighth week, each cycle would be 13 and a half hours long, corresponding to both a day AND night length in each room. It could be huge...

 

[Crysmatic]

12/1 is roughly 30% less growing time. how much longer do you have to veg? How does it affect stretch? flower initiation? Joe just says it's the bees knees without any data.

Dankworth: how much less light? How much electricity do you save? I'm curious how you cut light.

Dropping light, say, 40% in the last 4 weeks is a 20% drop in electricity on an 8 week cycle. That's significant - especially at $0.204/kWh. It's a dollar on the ounce (~10%) - and all positive gain. Does the dimming feature on digital ballasts cools the arc, thereby lowering the colour temp? (e.g. 3900K to 2900K).