using more watts in veg and reducing watts in flowering = better yield?

[LexLuthor]

I honestly don't see how you can lie to yourself and others about maximizing yield. I am not going to repeat myself, anybody can go back to post #136 and 154 and they will notice you never specifically replied to those 2 comments I made. It's because you have NO way of defending your mistake's, so you completely avoid what I say then you change the topic. If that makes you feel good about yourself then go ahead and keep doing it but everybody reading this thread can actually see you for who you really are. Somebody that covers his tracks with his knowledge of science and grammer. Good for you, kid.

 

[LexLuthor]

Everybody should go back to the beginning of this thread, so they can see how Squigg usually starts an argument with me and/or other farmers.

Post #7 Squigg jumped in a conversation I was having with another farmer.

Post #28 Same thing, he jumps in again, and always disagree's with someone.

Post #94 I gave my opinion on something Squigg said but I was very respectful and I did not disagree with him, I simply gave my point of view of what Crys said.

Post #97 ttystikk disagree's with me and is very disrespectful about it.

Post #105 This is when ttystikk says that it's impossible to maximize yield.

So the argument began about this maximize yield thing. Even after proving my point they both "ignored" me.

Now Sqigg won't talk about that topic anymore because he made a mistake and acts like he's "perfect" but 90% of his posts are disagreements with other farmers. Even if I'm having a normal conversation with someone Squigg disagree's with me (in post #7).

 

[outwest]

And then?

outwest

 

[LexLuthor]

And then............that shows how much of a jerk he is, he disagree's with people to start arguments. Then after he finally lost the "maximum yield" conversation he completely ignore's that it ever happened.

 

[glockdoc]

i hear where lex is coming from.
lets all just chill! period.
all im trying to do now whether we like each other or not, is get a "common factor" from a bunch of different minds. ill put it to the test; if it works, you guys helped me. and if you guys help me then we can help out everyone. ghetto or not LoL.
im 24/black and ghetto and it means nothing.
the more brains the better
are we all picking up what im putting down?!?! awsome.
i start my cab tomorrow; building which will be a breeze and planting two clones. MOD and agent orange. i am then, in 2 weeks, getting 12 super lemon haze clones, 1 i will be throwing in the cab. the rest are for my outdoor gig and i might get rid of 1 or 2.
my cab is 1.5 sq ft. i will be pushing 230-250w
space is 4 cubic ft..
planning a scrog. im aiming to fit in more then 1.4 sq ft of screen in the cab.
should i use 2 4 or 5 gallon pots with 1 in 1 and 2 in the other? need some input on this subject. i was starting to think a big 1.4 sq ft container and putting all 3 but idk..need to get some insight.
thanks all!

 

[LexLuthor]

Be careful with the SLH outdoors I think it finishes end of Oct. or beginning of Nov. and depending on where you live you could possibly get a hard freeze before it's done flowering.

It's kinda hard to tell without seeing the cab, but if you get a container that fills the whole cab then plant all 3 in one pot it might give the plants more root space, compared to 2 5gallon pots. Look at both options to see which one is bigger, I think the bigger the pot the better, in most situations.

 

[Skunkmasterflex]

This thread has all sorts of hate and is going in the comlete wrong direction. we are all farmers and should be able to talk to each other with respect. if we cant be respectful then please dont post or ill delete the post or this whole thread. thanks fellaz. not tryin to get in the middle but this is a little silly. we all have good points, everyone just needs express them without disrespecting each other.~SMF~

 

[Dunge]

Optimization is the term we are missing here.
The most/best product for the least input (mostly light, but all those additives are additive costs as well).

I believe the humans are natural scientists.
But nature can be confusing and counter intuitive.
And some things we hold as true, may be false.

I have never been more lost than when I was wrong about were I was.

I like this line of reasoning that attempts to optimize light to the needs of the plant.

Pulsed LED input might provide a window into this.

What I would be looking for is improved productivity, in the manner of light movers, but by using the easy on/off capability of LED lamps.

 

[LexLuthor]

I know Sqigg and ttystikk ignored me but I just wanna say something. Weather Im right, your right, or we are all right it really doesn't matter, I'm willing to put everything behind me and I apologize for any disrespectful comments I made to anyone. We are all adults here and there is no reason for any of us to hold grudges against eachother for what was said. So lets leave the past where it belongs, in the past, and I believe we all can still have respectful conversations with eachother without arguing anymore. This website is really about helping others and learning about horticulture, a debate is not necessarily a bad thing but when it gets out of hand the way it did nobody benefits from it. Also, sorry glockdoc for almost getting your thread deleting with our bickering, now we can get back to your topic and helping eachother out.

 

[glockdoc]

im sayin. like i said in a previous post its the main reason why i joined this community..i didnt see much of it..granted no matter where u go whether its on the web or a real place, ur going to run into people who are just that way.
but hey like u said lex lets get back to helping each other out!
great input lex i will def. keep that in mind.
skunkmasterflex im tryin to keep the peace as much as you are, thanks for stopping by thou!

 

[Skunkmasterflex]

im sayin. like i said in a previous post its the main reason why i joined this community..i didnt see much of it..granted no matter where u go whether its on the web or a real place, ur going to run into people who are just that way.
but hey like u said lex lets get back to helping each other out!
great input lex i will def. keep that in mind.
skunkmasterflex im tryin to keep the peace as much as you are, thanks for stopping by thou!

I hear ya brotha. You started a good thread, just doing my job to try and keep it going so people can learn from the information in it. No worries brotha. Let's just get along so we all can learn :) . You all are good people _~smf~

 

[ttystikk]

Optimization is the term we are missing here.
The most/best product for the least input (mostly light, but all those additives are additive costs as well).

I believe the humans are natural scientists.
But nature can be confusing and counter intuitive.
And some things we hold as true, may be false.

I have never been more lost than when I was wrong about were I was.

I like this line of reasoning that attempts to optimize light to the needs of the plant.

Pulsed LED input might provide a window into this.

What I would be looking for is improved productivity, in the manner of light movers, but by using the easy on/off capability of LED lamps.

Optimization is a good descriptive term for making the best of what we know/with what we have. It is a different thing to truly maximize something. Engineers and technicians optimize. Scientists seek to maximize, which is where Squiggly was coming from.

Humans are natural adapters, which is how we came to rule this little wet mudball floating in space. Nature is a tangled riddle, and she is teaching us plenty!

I like this overall line of inquiry as well, although I'm headed in a different direction than pulsed light- from any source. I prefer the light rotator approach, as I can get very high intensity levels for short periods and then allow the intensity to fall- but never to zero, or even below the plant's compensation threshold. Also, rather than using a dimmer light source as the 'season' progresses and the plants ripen, I will simply lengthen the night duration, as nature does.

 

[ttystikk]

I just found, after some searching on the Internet- a very interesting site that gives yearly graphs of sunlight duration, angle above horizon, and so on. Plug in your city and it will give you fascinating details about your outdoor day/night environment!


Sunrise, sunset, daylight in a graph



Now for how this fits into our conversation on mimicing autumn... if you scroll down the above referenced page partway (once you've entered a location, I used Baseline Road in Boulder, CO at exactly 40 degrees north) you'll find a graph that shows sunrise, sunset and time of light for each day of the year. Another graph gives the daily rate of change of daylight length. These tools show pretty clearly that angle of light, as well as intensity and duration are all changing as the season progresses.

I think the easiest to mimic in an indoor growroom is duration of light. Using the location above for the graph, on Sept 22, daylight is 12 hours. On October 18, the day length is only 11 hours, and on November 13, day length drops below 10 hours. I think this has to send a powerful signal to the plant to finish its generational phase, with all the ripening that entails. This is roughly 8 weeks, and an easy way to approximate this change in daylight, even with a simple mechanical timer, is to shorten the day length in your garden by 15 minutes a week. By the time 8 weeks pass, this means day length is shortened by 1:45 (week 1 is 12 hours, or whatever you set it for).

Notice this also has the net effect of reducing total lighting flux to the plants as the cycle wears on, and it saves some electricity, too-

 

[glockdoc]

you could save electricity by doing this, do you think it would have a negative effect on yield?
love the graph, bookmarked and its better then the old one i have that im going to use to pick outdoor guerrilla spots.
thanks bro

 

[squiggly]

Just wanted to come out and say I've been a bit of an asshole in this thread. I felt the need to come out an apologize for any asshole behavior I've taken part in for the last month. I've been in an extremely wound up state and it hasn't translated into a reasonable use of my language skills at all time.

I'm still ignoring dude, because I don't think he and I will ever get along. We come from two completely different and opposing schools of thought and the bridge is just way too burned for me to give a damn about mending it--however, that doesn't excuse me being so overpassionate about getting my point across to the point where my posts start to take on a condescending tone.

I truly do NOT believe I'm better than anyone, nor do I believe that I'm always right.

I do, however, believe that people should offer discourse on those things they understand--and perhaps be a bit more humble in terms of addressing those things which they categorically do not.

That goes for me as well--and I plan to be mindful of that in the future.

I just want to suggest that it is every bit as insulting to me as it is to any of you when what little expertise I do have is taken for granted. I definitely have tried to be aware of the expertise of others in this thread and others, but when my viewpoint was being attacked without even addressing the core of my argument it became to frustrating for me and the stress from my personal life spilled over onto the internet.

I don't wanna be the type of dude who would recognize this in himself and not own up to it. So here I am.

That said--I'm with SMF

we are all farmers and should be able to talk to each other with respect.

So I'd like to re-open the conversation here--I've never said I'm right about anything, except that no one can say what is possible until they've tried it. I think that's a totally reasonable place to start from in terms of recommending scientific inquiry.

Why not let's talk about how we could overcome some of the hurdles to this, rather than simply pointing all of the hurdles out?

I'll be making trips around the farm to each of the threads I've been involved with recently to (hopefully) make some amends. I hope anyone I've offended here will forgive me. Especially you Crysmatic--I should've addressed you differently.

 

[glockdoc]

thats good enough for me. thanks squiggly. nice of you to do that.
lets all do some serious brainstorming and shed some light on this subject and maybe we can find some kind of break-thru unknown to the rest of the farming community.
just from the few that have shed some insight in this thread, in my opinion, covered a good amount of info for me or us to take a first step on what we are trying to accomplish here.
i ran into this thread sometime ago when this subject wasn't in my mind, but the concept caught my attention.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219764
its about 12-1 lighting is as follows: 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule.
some have reported no loss of yield while saving a good amount of energy. check it out

 

[glockdoc]

@ icmag
.com
/ic.......

 

[ttystikk]

thats good enough for me. thanks squiggly. nice of you to do that.
lets all do some serious brainstorming and shed some light on this subject and maybe we can find some kind of break-thru unknown to the rest of the farming community.
just from the few that have shed some insight in this thread, in my opinion, covered a good amount of info for me or us to take a first step on what we are trying to accomplish here.
i ran into this thread sometime ago when this subject wasn't in my mind, but the concept caught my attention.

its about 12-1 lighting is as follows: 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule.
some have reported no loss of yield while saving a good amount of energy. check it out

This is the old 12/1 schedule for veg, and I'm using it with good results right now. It saves power and allows for more light intensity without spiking the power bill quite so much.

 

[LexLuthor]

This is the old 12/1 schedule for veg, and I'm using it with good results right now. It saves power and allows for more light intensity without spiking the power bill quite so much.

I hope your not ignoring me anymore, so if not then I have a question. Did you notice any decrease in yield while using the 12/1 cycle as opposed to the 18/6? Considering your using similar yielding strains, plus the media and environmental factors are the same.

 

[glockdoc]

great question