Dr.stickerdick
- 176
- 28
Lost, with all do respects I don't pay a tax to grow my tomatos etc. or pay a tax to make my brew. Why should I be soo anxious for an MJ tax stamp!? Peace
War breaks out within the marijuana legalization movement (part 1)
T
Thallamus
- 20
- 0
Greetings everyone! This is my first post so please go easy on me.
Right off, there is a lot of good info and good debate going on in this thread. I really enjoy the level of smarts here vs other forums. That being said, I can see a lot of the benefits on both sides of the issue(s), decriminalize, legalize, tax or no tax. Let me just say from my own personal experiences, I graduated with a degree in Bio/Chem and was an Environmental Scientist for several years for the govt. I started out wanting to help steer and fix issues that I felt were important to us all. However I became frustrated with the absolute lunacy, minutia, and corruptness of it all. Surely I could have stayed in my field, kept going along with it all, and been paid rather nicely. But the urgency and importance of issues still would have been thrown to the back burner. I took a step back and listened to a very wise and very wealthy source. He told me “Your heart is in the right place, but govt. is not about heart, it’s about dollars. Sadly you can’t save a forest or farm with heart. You need money. Then you can do with it what you want…ala the golden rule.” Suffice it to say I left that job and went on my own. Started my own business and 10 years later, sold it. My mentor was right…I made the money and the rules and shit got done.
What’s the point here? After running a company for 10 years….I can say I really don’t like taxes. But who the hell does? They are just a part of the game, a necessary evil if you will. So just learn to just deal with them in the best and most productive way possible…hire a good accountant, hahaha:)
Really though if you don’t like the govt in your business, or fear that they will ruin it, then start your own business, play nice in the sandbox and make enough money to change the rules. That’s what I see with Oakdam, not that I agree with their philosophies…I’m just commenting on the current status quo.
Now on tax: Tax is the least of my worries. My fear is quality (strain, content, vendors) control more than anything. I’m sure the legislation will be subpar the first time around, but we can change that as time goes by. Right now I see too much crap out there and more and more shady morons getting into the arena. We need better regulation. Maybe some don’t want that but with regulation will come competition. People will get weeded out (no pun intended) and cream will rise to the top.
My 2cents
-T
Right off, there is a lot of good info and good debate going on in this thread. I really enjoy the level of smarts here vs other forums. That being said, I can see a lot of the benefits on both sides of the issue(s), decriminalize, legalize, tax or no tax. Let me just say from my own personal experiences, I graduated with a degree in Bio/Chem and was an Environmental Scientist for several years for the govt. I started out wanting to help steer and fix issues that I felt were important to us all. However I became frustrated with the absolute lunacy, minutia, and corruptness of it all. Surely I could have stayed in my field, kept going along with it all, and been paid rather nicely. But the urgency and importance of issues still would have been thrown to the back burner. I took a step back and listened to a very wise and very wealthy source. He told me “Your heart is in the right place, but govt. is not about heart, it’s about dollars. Sadly you can’t save a forest or farm with heart. You need money. Then you can do with it what you want…ala the golden rule.” Suffice it to say I left that job and went on my own. Started my own business and 10 years later, sold it. My mentor was right…I made the money and the rules and shit got done.
What’s the point here? After running a company for 10 years….I can say I really don’t like taxes. But who the hell does? They are just a part of the game, a necessary evil if you will. So just learn to just deal with them in the best and most productive way possible…hire a good accountant, hahaha:)
Really though if you don’t like the govt in your business, or fear that they will ruin it, then start your own business, play nice in the sandbox and make enough money to change the rules. That’s what I see with Oakdam, not that I agree with their philosophies…I’m just commenting on the current status quo.
Now on tax: Tax is the least of my worries. My fear is quality (strain, content, vendors) control more than anything. I’m sure the legislation will be subpar the first time around, but we can change that as time goes by. Right now I see too much crap out there and more and more shady morons getting into the arena. We need better regulation. Maybe some don’t want that but with regulation will come competition. People will get weeded out (no pun intended) and cream will rise to the top.
My 2cents
-T
B
Bill Bloome
- 108
- 16
ANY government wether state or Federal,will be involved in the decision to allow us to grow due to the longprohibition of cannabis.I prefer my state to be the one I pay myLicense fee{not a tax but funds to pay for the paperwork}.If you seriously think we will succede in winning our grow rights without some sort of fee,tax,license or whatever the label you choose,....my question to you is Where have YOU been?Nothing in this country is free......especially its people!
B
Bill Bloome
- 108
- 16
PS
I find this site extremely informative,intelligent and just plain fun.If all of us could unite and be one voice I believe change would arrive much sooner.Become a Freedom Fighter and make your politicians listen!ONE voice ONE objective MANY votes!
I find this site extremely informative,intelligent and just plain fun.If all of us could unite and be one voice I believe change would arrive much sooner.Become a Freedom Fighter and make your politicians listen!ONE voice ONE objective MANY votes!
R
Rolln J
Guest
Why I Oppose the “Tax & Regulate” Marijuana Initiative (by Dennis Peron)
Three Fatal Flaws
1. One ounce limit? 25 sq. foot per building garden size limit? Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state.
2. Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole.
3. Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are
present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?
This initiative is bad for parents, students and ultimately the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences.
Perpetuating and increasing the hundred million plus tax dollars per year the state already spends policing this harmless plant is wrong yet that is exactly what this proposition does. Surely we can do better than this. How about just legalizing it, getting the state off pot to save lives and real money across the board? Please consider how you can help expose and defeat this misleading “tax and regulate” initiative.
Dennis Peron, Author of Proposition 215, the Compassionate Use Act of 1996.
3745 17th street, SFCA 94114 (415) 864 – 1961 [email protected]
Three Fatal Flaws
1. One ounce limit? 25 sq. foot per building garden size limit? Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state.
2. Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole.
3. Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are
present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?
This initiative is bad for parents, students and ultimately the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences.
Perpetuating and increasing the hundred million plus tax dollars per year the state already spends policing this harmless plant is wrong yet that is exactly what this proposition does. Surely we can do better than this. How about just legalizing it, getting the state off pot to save lives and real money across the board? Please consider how you can help expose and defeat this misleading “tax and regulate” initiative.
Dennis Peron, Author of Proposition 215, the Compassionate Use Act of 1996.
3745 17th street, SFCA 94114 (415) 864 – 1961 [email protected]
L
Lost
- 2,969
- 38
You need to reread my post.. I am talking about corporations not the little guy producing under say 50 lbs a year out of his house. Do homebrewers pay tax on the beer they brew? :rasta2:
Dr.stickerdick
- 176
- 28
Answer my question please
L
Lost
- 2,969
- 38
I did, but since you don't understand, I'll break it down kindergarden style.
(That was my original post where I answered you question.)
To Clarify...
My view is this:
Tax corporations while leaving home growers and medical patients/growers completely free.
We do not have to buy into oaks plan, I think its not the best one out there. But there are better ones out there and they cal ALL be rewritten :)
:mysterymachine:
R
Rolln J
Guest
its too late to re-write any of them and get them on the ballot next year...
L
Lost
- 2,969
- 38
Then we wait another year so they can get it right. No need to rush out and settle IMO...
R
Rolln J
Guest
I agree - the problem is that any of the three that make it on to the ballot could pass...
so people need to be educated as to which (or any) of the three they should vote for!
well that and there wont be another election until 2012...
so people need to be educated as to which (or any) of the three they should vote for!
well that and there wont be another election until 2012...
B
Bill Bloome
- 108
- 16
I dont want a tax and regulate system of any kind.I still believe the once a year growers license issued by the state with no restrictions other than age is the best way to go.If we as voters organize and solidify one position and pressure our lawmakers to act upon that position we have the best chance for success.
R
Rolln J
Guest
grow license = tax
B
Bill Bloome
- 108
- 16
OK call it a tax.I like license.My girl says fee.I dont care what we call it as long as no regulation or interference is stipulated and adhered to.We will never be allowed to grow our own without some sort of payment to the powers that be.I find it a fair exchange.
R
Rolln J
Guest
yeah Im down with that as well - just pointing out that we are being taxed - since you dont need a permit to grow squash or tomatoes.
fractal
- 2,009
- 163
This kind of attitude is pathetic. You make me sick. Fuck the powers that be.
R
Rolln J
Guest
fight the power!
B
Bill Bloome
- 108
- 16
You may call this attitude pathetic but while you are still protesting for your un-taxed right to grow I will be reaping the benefit of my allocated crop.Its been proven over and over that changes such as we demand come slowly and from inside manipulation rather than outside frontal assault.Gather our supporters from within the "powers that be" and beat them at their own game.Redirect your ire from the soap box to the voting booth!
L
Lost
- 2,969
- 38
Your lack of tact highlights your probable education level. Based on your ability to only attack and not present valid arguements to your point, I would say that you don't have the intelligence or schooling to even debate this here.
:tongue0011:
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