Water Chilling Q & A

ttystikk · Jul 13, 2013

seebobsled said:
Yes the eco plus commercial is good unit but I haven't used a chill king to really compare.

Swany said:
- 'cause my memory is not always sharp ;-}

Thanks for the replys and sorry for the delay, been way to busy!

My friend is running (2) 1k's in Veg, one lamp per table. Still (6) in flower though, two lamps per table. I agree setting up for a flip would be great. There are a few reasons he's not done that, which I won't boar you with. Someday I'll get in there and reconfigure it. In the mean time, would an EcoPlus commercial 1 ton make a dent? A 1.5 ton like Seebobsled is using?

Seebob - you're running a 1.5 and a 1 to cool 2kw of light at peak - is that with outside temps in the 90's during the day, or in the cool of night? I'll skip consumer chillers - thanks. I would assume the Eco commercials are not quite up to a chill king commercial but are probably like a 'pro-sumer' version of a camera. Better than run of the mill but not quite a professional rig.

My three grand's worth, lol: if you plan to step up to a larger chiller unit, then it should be the biggest and best you can afford. Why? Because these things work better the larger they are. On to the specifics;

The difference between a commercial unit, as I just learned the hard way!, and a consumer style unit is that the ecoplus units run as AC compressor style units that chill water. Their rating is different- read lower- and they aren't quite as efficient, although they do still outperform standard AC because of their nature as water chillers.

A ChillKing is a refrigeration unit, fully factory sealed, with far heavier duty internal components including the compressor unit and the blower fan motor. It is built on a chassis that slides in and out of an external metal box that's firmly installed through a window or a dedicated wall opening. This makes it a snap to clean and maintain. The whole thing is made of STEEL, lol. It is designed to be outdoors which is really mandatory all summer. Since it's built to be a window unit, that's exactly what it looks and sounds like from the outside, only there's never any smell like an AC unit can leak. It actually OUTperforms its advertised rating due to the different way in which it works.

I'm not trying to be their salesman, but it came down to this for me: if I'm going to depend on ONE mission critical unit for my whole op, do I want anything less than the best, most dependable equipment possible?

seebobsled · Jul 14, 2013

Tystick chill king uses Frigidaire window mount AC. If you doubt it check a 2 ton ac chassis's dimensions. Yes they put quality components and large evap chamber for cooling but still a converted window ac from my research. Frigidaire makes a great ac witch makes a great base platform to work from.

ttystikk · Jul 14, 2013

seebobsled said:
Tystick chill king uses Frigidaire window mount AC. If you doubt it check a 2 ton ac chassis's dimensions. Yes they put quality components and large evap chamber for cooling but still a converted window ac from my research. Frigidaire makes a great ac witch makes a great base platform to work from.

The diva is in the details. That Frigidaire AC you're comparing it to also has better internal components than the EcoPlus unit I was comparing it to. You are correct in that a chiller is one internal component different than an AC unit, I was just driving home the point that when you buy a ChillKing, you are getting the "actual" commercial grade internals.

seebobsled · Jul 14, 2013

Chill king rates btu at or over stated 2ton = 24000 btu .
All imports like mine 1.5 ton =12000 btu .
1 ton = 8000btu .
So in sizing a chiller keep that in mind.

ttystikk · Jul 14, 2013

seebobsled said:
Chill king rates btu at or over stated 2ton = 24000 btu .
All imports like mine 1.5 ton =12000 btu .
1 ton = 8000btu .
So in sizing a chiller keep that in mind.

This is HUGE! The whole point of the damn thing is to make shit cool, so why buy something that is universally known NOT to live up to its rating? Would you buy a "200hp" car knowing it actually made only 150? I would ask what's wrong with it!

This, along with the reliability, was the reason I kicked down for a ChillKing.

seebobsled · Jul 14, 2013

In my mind 2 eco plus commercial 1.5 ton would compare to your 2ton chillking. You would have a 2 stage chiller that runs at 10 amps 120v per stage instead of one 20 amp 220v. Redundancy will win in long run. The price for 2 eco plus is = 2ton chill king.

I have about 1600 dollars in my chillers
1400 eco plus 1.5 new
200 aqua quest 1 ton. Used c.list
Total btu 20,0000

seebobsled · Jul 14, 2013

Chillville did test run eco plus and recommended it.

ttystikk · Jul 14, 2013

seebobsled said:
In my mind 2 eco plus commercial 1.5 ton would compare to your 2ton chillking. You would have a 2 stage chiller that runs at 10 amps 120v per stage instead of one 20 amp 220v. Redundancy will win in long run. The price for 2 eco plus is = 2ton chill king.

I have about 1600 dollars in my chillers
1400 eco plus 1.5 new
200 aqua quest 1 ton. Used c.list
Total btu 20,0000

The dark side of redundancy is excess components, and more parts to fail. This is why jetliners with more than two engines are pretty rare birds anymore- two engines is enough for peak reliability, and adding more actually hurts.

I'll have two chillers as well, both for backup and ultimately for capacity as I explore vertical bare bulb growing.

To be clear, I did not pay full retail for either of my units. Net of all the other stuff that came in the various deals, I'd say they ran me about $3000 for both of them.

Swany · Jul 14, 2013

Greentrees is a great site. I have bought most of my stuff there. It would cost about $260 to ship here (~$280 to Colorado) but no tax. They also have the Eco Commercial units. My buddy is baulking at the cost of even a 1ton Eco. I'm going to spend a couple of hours today improving on his venting and we'll see if it does any good. I'd like to point out to him that it's going to cost him way more in the long run to not have adequate cooling but at the moment he does not have adequate cash - kinda hard to make it work that way. I think I'll make use of this on other rooms I build though...

That whole debacle with you chilling sucks Tty - good thing you have mad McGiever skills and it got handled ;-}

ttystikk · Jul 14, 2013

Thanks, brother! My 'MacGuyver' degree in engineering has gotten me out of more scrapes than I can remember!

Never sell your imagination short. Direct it, teach it, feed it knowledge, but never ignore it. That little voice could be saying something no one else has thought of before...

Swany · Jul 14, 2013

ttystikk said:
The single best way to improve your grow's efficiency, both in terms of square footage and power used, is to break up your op into as many pieces as you can keep track of. Going 'perpetual' is in many ways a pain, but the benefits are well worth the effort, I promise!

I've talked to him about this, but I'm not going to do it for him and he's not getting to it himself. I'm going to do it for me! After another run and a profit I'll set up individual spaces for 8 plants each. Different res for each room so I can stagger. Going to run creek water (someday...) for chilling and if need be augment that with a chiller.

ttystikk · Jul 14, 2013

Swany said:
I've talked to him about this, but I'm not going to do it for him and he's not getting to it himself. I'm going to do it for me! After another run and a profit I'll set up individual spaces for 8 plants each. Different res for each room so I can stagger. Going to run creek water (someday...) for chilling and if need be augment that with a chiller.

Need a hand? Me and MacGuyver are ready for anything!

Swany · Jul 14, 2013

ttystikk said:
Need a hand? Me and MacGuyver are ready for anything!

Ha! I do - along with working my room, a 40 hour work week, keeping our property up and preparing for Burning Man I'm helping build two other rooms on my off time. Today is my anniversary so I'm taking it off ;-} Going to go to the hobby store and get a RC helicopter 'cuase the little lady things it would be a blast to fly it off our back deck.

ttystikk · Jul 14, 2013

Swany said:
Ha! I do - along with working my room, a 40 hour work week, keeping our property up and preparing for Burning Man I'm helping build two other rooms on my off time. Today is my anniversary so I'm taking it off ;-} Going to go to the hobby store and get a RC helicopter 'cuase the little lady things it would be a blast to fly it off our back deck.

Cool! Anything for the little lady on your anniversary... bonus points cuz it's so cool! They sell these 'spy drones' at Johnny stores now, it's a four rotor platform with a camera... That sends video to the smartphone you fly it with. $400 and now you not only have a toy, but real live aerial surveillance equipment, lol

seebobsled · Jul 15, 2013

ttystikk said:
The dark side of redundancy is excess components, and more parts to fail. This is why jetliners with more than two engines are pretty rare birds anymore- two engines is enough for peak reliability, and adding more actually hurts

.

You made my point my jet is flying with twin engines when demands it from my dual stage temp controller . Plus staggered starts to lessen load on electrical system.

Not much different than two split ACS on opposite ends of room to cool. Instead of one large.Or 2stage compressor central heat pump ac. So many options but constraints (time,money,space,availability, and abilities) limit them. So do your research! And knowledge from experience wins!

ftwendy · Jul 15, 2013

seebobsled said:
.And knowledge from experience wins!

F yeah it does.... scars teach better lessons than knee pads do.

seebobsled · Jul 15, 2013

and the smart ones learn after the scars to get them dam pads. because doing the same thing expecting different results is insanity

ttystikk · Jul 15, 2013

seebobsled said:
and the smart ones learn after the scars to get them dam pads. because doing the same thing expecting different results is insanity

The smartest ones get their knee pads after watching someone ELSE fuck up their knees, lol

I always wanted two chillers, for the reasons you mentioned, plus the fact that I'm doing bare bulb experiments and I'm going to need more cooling capacity. This isn't exactly how I wanted said purchases to happen, but c'est la guerre, lol. In war, the first casualty is always the battle plan!

Swany · Jul 16, 2013

ttystikk said:
They sell these 'spy drones' at Johnny stores now,

That would be sweet - I got a little 'Blade' heli and controller for $120. It's so small it doesn't do to well in wind. Tried teaching my wife in the driveway but there was just enough wind to mess with the little thing. So we tied a long string to it and I tried to get the cat to chase it in the house. The laser is still the cat teaser of choice.

In regards to the diff between resi and commercial chillers - a resi is rated in hp and a commercial is rated in ton's, is this correct? That would help manufacturers hide the comparatively low performance of a resi unit.

ttystikk · Jul 16, 2013

Swany said:
That would be sweet - I got a little 'Blade' heli and controller for $120. It's so small it doesn't do to well in wind. Tried teaching my wife in the driveway but there was just enough wind to mess with the little thing. So we tied a long string to it and I tried to get the cat to chase it in the house. The laser is still the cat teaser of choice.

In regards to the diff between resi and commercial chillers - a resi is rated in hp and a commercial is rated in ton's, is this correct? That would help manufacturers hide the comparatively low performance of a resi unit.

Not quite. Well, on second thought, maybe that's how they do it. It's something to do with how the systems run that allow the mfrs. to play games with rating systems. To really gauge, you kinds have to do your own converting- but that runs into other issues as well.

Seebobsled, can you look on the side of your chillers where the specification tag is? Is there an EER number? What is it?

I bet my ChillKing is more efficient than the units he's running. And if it's not, I definitely need to know!

Water Chilling Q & A

Water Chilling Q & A

ttystikk

seebobsled

ttystikk

seebobsled

ttystikk

seebobsled

seebobsled

ttystikk

Swany

ttystikk

Swany

ttystikk

Swany

ttystikk

seebobsled

ftwendy

seebobsled

ttystikk

Swany

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