Water cooled growrooms; if it works in your car...

[UCtestn]

^ Yup... You do realize most pools are in climates where people actually go in them without fear of hypothermia, right? :-)

Your setup is typical... rooms can be kept at 10-12 degrees F warmer then the water being used.

That's cool shit. In most cases water would be too warm for 6-8 months out of the year.

 

[ttystikk]

I am going to start construction of my air to water cooling system this week. Last night my 6x1000 watt blom room got to 90 degrees... in the first weekend in April? Damn, thought I had more time!

Anyway, I can only find out whether n how well it works by actually building it, because I can't seem to find the necessary conversions and math to model it. If someone knows where to find them, I would be grateful

 

[bubbakush714]

I made a DIY with A heater copper core off of a 1991 ford escort and stacked and glued 5 cores on top of each other. The angles on that core and inlet and outlet diameter is ideal. It worked ok but I wanted an ultimate one that can fit 10"-14" fans so I got a 92-00 honda civic aluminum radiator and made on out of that with 1 1/2" flow connected to a 1hp chiller......It helps to work in a auto parts shop! I'll post some pics up of what I made.

 

[RMCG]

Here is a zip file of core sizes for those that don't work at a parts shop:

 

[ttystikk]

I went to my local autozone and found chevy s-10 heater cores... u think they're okay?

 

[RMCG]

I went to my local autozone and found chevy s-10 heater cores... u think they're okay?

Depends. I only posted that for size reference. If you are making a shroud, it doesn't matter. If you are trying to use a duct register from HD and need to find the 'perfect enough' size, that spreadsheet will help find the make/model that will fit.

The other place to look is here:

http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/airtowater.htm

The #'s they post are for heating, but should help in determining approximate surface area required, entering water temp (EWT) and leaving water temps(LWT).


Personally, If I were to pursue this, I would forgo the 'icebox' model and get a big ass exchanger (12"x12" or larger) like from the link above, mount it in a custom plenum (or salvage a furnace/central air handler) with a HUGE (1000+cfm) squirrel cage fan (like from a salvaged swamp cooler/furnace) and hook that up to a thermostat.


Go look at 'Marine A/C's and even HI's own Water Cooled Air Handlers for a better idea.

The only thing I don't like about HI's new WCAH is the ducting from your lights goes in to them. I like the 'standalone' ones better.


ActiveAqua also makes air handlers (DX line I think?) that would work nicely too and much cheaper than HI's.

But you are someone who hangs a bicycle from their ceiling for a light mover, so go hit up some scrap yards/recycler/CL for a large furnace plenum and go that route vs small IceBox sized units.

Not to be a buzz kill, but I will say that I don't ~think~ your 'chiller' idea will work, consistently or reliably, and that you have underestimated the cooling abilities or the heat build up that will happen.

If you need 3T of cooling, you will need an airhandler (exchanger/fan combo) capable of that (read the charts on the link above) AND a real chiller, sized appropriately to remove the heat.

Even a pool won't do it in the summer unless your ambient temps don't really warrant you having a pool and if that's the case, go with HI's 'compressorless' unit.

 

[mrdizzle]

chill king does make a water cooled air handler that can be paired with theire chillers, I spoke with them and they claim a 2ton paired with the airhandler will chill 8lights.

I remember someone on IC cooling a 8lighter with a 2ton just can remember his name, I just wouldnt rock chillking they are some poor customer service record

 

[RMCG]

chill king does make a water cooled air handler that can be paired with theire chillers, I spoke with them and they claim a 2ton paired with the airhandler will chill 8lights.

I remember someone on IC cooling a 8lighter with a 2ton just can remember his name, I just wouldnt rock chillking they are some poor customer service record

Agreed, the full airhandler is far better than a bunch of iceboxes.

 

[ttystikk]

I am going ahead with my trial for a few reasons;
first, I am not cooling the lights with this system, they are already handled by a fully separate ducted air cooling system that draws air from outside the growroom and exhausts it outside.
Second, I need some hands on experience with systems like these, to develop a feel for how they work.
Third, I am trying to incorporate a way to build a reservior of cooling capability to take advantage of free cooling available with my municipal water supply.
Fourth, I temp checked the incoming water supply and it's 55 degrees fahrenheit at the bathroom tap! That's cold enough by any reasonable standard.
Fifth, if this isn't sufficient by itself, then adding a chiller to the circuit should be really simple, since the cooling system for the room will already be in place. This chiller should really not need to be bigger than 1/2T, especially if it has the help I've outlined above.
Sixth, I want to use this same system to cool my hydro systems as they are 75 or more without any and that's too warm.

I am not afriad to try something I think will work- and I'm not shy about discussing the results, whether they make me look like a genius- or a moron! I'll let you know how it goes, and what issues I encounter along the way.

 

[ttystikk]

So far, the parts list is looking like this;
1. one 55 gallon barrel, free
2. one 250 gph pump, $25
3. one kit for putting a spigot in the barrel, tools etc $50
4. 60' of 3/4" coiled copper tubing, $250 ouch!
5. two chevy S-10 heater cores, $30 each
6. 50' of 3/4" garden hose, $25
7. assorted connectors, hose clamps, etc, $15
8. two inline fans, $60 each
9. Assorted duct bits, not sure of cost- will know when I see them!
10. education... priceless...
11. wet/dry shopvac for cleaning up the messes I'm bound to make, $50

 

[UCtestn]

What's the copper for?

So you gonna run drain to waste from your tap?

 

[Desertboy]

Here's my homebrewed water cooling it;s an air to heat exchanger from a boiler pump water through it and pass grow room air over it and voila water cooling.

It worked really well there was logistical problems with the water but I'm having another go come september this time connected to my pool, which I bought specifically for this. It's a cheap ass metal framed pool & Liner and has shown it's perfectly capable of surviving -15C winter whilst at full capacity.

The cooling system was capable of soaking up 100% of the heat (Minus grow room leakage of course) in a sealed room for 1.2kw of bare bulbed HPS or 2.4kw of HPS if the lights were air cooled as long as the water temp was <20C and room temp was ~26C.

 

[RMCG]

I am going ahead with my trial for a few reasons;
first, I am not cooling the lights with this system, they are already handled by a fully separate ducted air cooling system that draws air from outside the growroom and exhausts it outside.
Second, I need some hands on experience with systems like these, to develop a feel for how they work.
Third, I am trying to incorporate a way to build a reservior of cooling capability to take advantage of free cooling available with my municipal water supply.
Fourth, I temp checked the incoming water supply and it's 55 degrees fahrenheit at the bathroom tap! That's cold enough by any reasonable standard.
Fifth, if this isn't sufficient by itself, then adding a chiller to the circuit should be really simple, since the cooling system for the room will already be in place. This chiller should really not need to be bigger than 1/2T, especially if it has the help I've outlined above.
Sixth, I want to use this same system to cool my hydro systems as they are 75 or more without any and that's too warm.

I am not afriad to try something I think will work- and I'm not shy about discussing the results, whether they make me look like a genius- or a moron! I'll let you know how it goes, and what issues I encounter along the way.

How often do you run your 'free cooling from municipality' ie water?

55* water run for 10 mins/hour is not going to reduce a 55 g drum of 80* water to 65*, especially when you add additional heat load.

Heat Transfer coefficient of copper in a forced liquid/liquid situation is only 60 - 80 Btu/ft2 hr. So with your 60' of 3/4" copper, you have ~141 sq. ft.

I'll even give you that you get perfect transfer of 80 btus(which you won't), that will be ~11k btu/hr or 188btu/min with your water running 24/7. This is the best possible heat exchange you will get with 60' of copper submerged in a drum of water. Now start subtracting pressure drop (which by the way, that 250gph pump isn't going to cut it) and temp loss to your airhandler, etc. and you will be sub 100btus/min, probably closer to 50btu/min or ~3000btu/hr with your water running for that entire hour. Regular 'household' water usage is not going to cut it.

I'm not calling anyone an idiot or a genius, but cobbing something together when the math doesn't add up is foolish and wasteful.

I run a .5T chiller with a 25+g res, feeding 2 cool coils submerged in (2) 100g systems (running flip-flop) fed by a 2400gph pump and the chiller runs 24/7 to keep the res's 67-68*. Ambient room temps are ~75*.

'Adding in a .5T' chiller will get you ~5000btu of cooling. So you are going to get maybe 8k btu of cooling from this (best case) and a huge water bill.

Buy a 12kbtu window unit for cooling your room for $150 and use your chiller for your res's and be done.

 

[desertsquirrel]

55 degree spring water is what our geothermal chillers (ac and rez) use as well. We use thousands and thousands and thousands of gallons (per day).

 

[RMCG]

55 degree spring water is what our geothermal chillers (ac and rez) use as well. We use thousands and thousands and thousands of gallons (per day).

Bingo.

Denver Water Rates:

Single-Family Residential
Monthly Consumption (Gallons) Rate per 1,000 Gallons
Block 1 0 – 11,000 $2.41
Block 2 12,000 – 30,000 $4.82
Block 3 31,000 – 40,000 $7.23
Block 4 Over 40,000 $9.64


At 2.4GPM that's going to add up if you are paying for it!

 

[Desertboy]

You don't need to run straight to waste that would be ridiculous! The water will be barely a degree of 2 above tap temperature and still has much cooling potential.

I made my system so the reservoir was ~100l when the temperature of the reservoir rose to 18C it pumped cold fresh tap water into the reservoir which overflowed to waste until the temperature dropped to 10C then turned the pump off.

It took ~2 hours to raise the temps from 10C-18C and I replaced ~60% of the reservoir so roughly 0.5l's per minute for 1.2kw.

 

[RMCG]

You don't need to run straight to waste that would be ridiculous! The water will be barely a degree of 2 above tap temperature and still has much cooling potential.

I made my system so the reservoir was ~100l when the temperature of the reservoir rose to 18C it pumped cold fresh tap water into the reservoir which overflowed to waste until the temperature dropped to 10C then turned the pump off.

It took ~2 hours to raise the temps from 10C-18C and I replaced ~60% of the reservoir so roughly 0.5l's per minute for 1.2kw.

Read what he is trying to do.

He's going to tap in to his cold water line, run that through a coil in a barrel, then back in to his water tap. So cooling will only happen when you have a faucet on( shower, laundry, etc.) ie DTW.

 

[Desertboy]

^ Yup... You do realize most pools are in climates where people actually go in them without fear of hypothermia, right? :-)

Your setup is typical... rooms can be kept at 10-12 degrees F warmer then the water being used.

That's cool shit. In most cases water would be too warm for 6-8 months out of the year.

This is very true I installed my pool specifically for grow cooling in the UK 8-9 months a year the pool is freezing! It's an above ground pool I bought cheap and relined being above ground it should leak off the heat nicely.

My plan is/was to grow only between Sep to May, I just checked the pool 7C. I have ~11000l's to play with and only 1-2kw of light to cool.

 

[RMCG]

This is very true I installed my pool specifically for grow cooling in the UK 8-9 months a year the pool is freezing! It's an above ground pool I bought cheap and relined being above ground it should leak off the heat nicely.

My plan is/was to grow only between Sep to May, I just checked the pool 7C. I have ~11000l's to play with and only 1-2kw of light to cool.

A small evap cooling tower would have fit the bill over a pool, esp if you are not running it during the hot summer months.

 

[Desertboy]

Read what he is trying to do.

He's going to tap in to his cold water line, run that through a coil in a barrel, then back in to his water tap. So cooling will only happen when you have a faucet on( shower, laundry, etc.) ie DTW.

Why the hell would you do that?

Maybe as a preheat tank for your hot water tank (Something I've considered) might make some sense.

A lot of hassle for very little cooling unless he's running a laundrette!

Also cooling will be random and uncontrolled!