water pH of 7.5

[kolah]

I've grown outdoors and in a Greenhouse for 5 years plus. I never had issues with my well water as it was always a consistent 6.0-6.5. I have never had to check my soil pH or runoff as I just read plants as they progressed and without problems. Until this year.

I decided to check my water pH with those 12 dollar water test kits. You fill the vial half full with water and squirt in a few drops of pH tester then match the color to the chart. I tested my well water 3 times and each time I came out with a pH of 7.5. I am unsure if that much alkaline water would effect my MJ. ??

In many of my plants they have shown some tacoing at new growths and at the tops only and growth is stunted/slowed. Usually I grow some damn good sized plants in veg but not this year.

I use a mix of HF, OF and my own compost about 1:1:1 ratio and use General Organic liq ferts. Sometimes I top dress with some aged chicken poop. I have never ph'ed my soil...(maybe I did in my 1st and 2nd year, dunno for sure)

Other than some slight leaf tacoing, there are no signs of deficiency, just little growth and stunted out. And many plants are not taking on that happy perky leaf formation...they just remain a bit droopy all the time..like often observed at night time.

Could my 7.5 water pH be causing a lock out of some sorts?
Maybe I should do a Ph run-off test in the plants that are still in 3 and 5 gallon pots? (some plants are in my beds and doing a run-off test would be impossible)

I find it odd I never had issues before when my water pH was always 6.0 to 6.5 and I am unsure if the new pH of 7.5 is the main culprit. Same soil and same ferts. Hmm. (head scratch)

Night temps have been cold, mid 30's and 40's, day time temps in the 70's. The RH hangs around 30-50% in the GH which has always been the norm every summer up here. They have plenty of ventilation as well.

Thoughts and advice appreciated.

 

[SunGrown]

hmm, try a slurry soil sample from a few of your beds and try to get a ph reading from that. My well is around 7.8 ph so I am not sure that is the issue beacuse I have used this same well for years at the same ph and always had great results.

However I too am experiencing some oddities this year that I never have before...mostly for me it is some persistent "kinda wanna flower early, but not really" shit going on for me, but they are all growing daily.

Maybe the gub'ment put something new in the chem trails, lol...Like why is it 48 degrees this morning??

Is the overall growth fine? or are you very disappointed and wish you could start over? Try making a tea slurry with a bunch of alfalfa and dump that on the beds...for the triacontanol, you should see a huge difference within 48 hours if you aren't already using any form of tria.

Good luck!

 

[souf69]

Maybe some pests in the soil? I to have noticed a ph change in my well water this year. I always thought the run off from the mountains causes the water in the ground to turn a bit, therefor changing it.

 

[caregiverken]

Maybe some pests in the soil? I to have noticed a ph change in my well water this year. I always thought the run off from the mountains causes the water in the ground to turn a bit, therefor changing it.

my well water ph went up a little this year too (central Ca.)
its 7.6 to 7.8 now..but my plants dont seem to mind a bit.
I spray em with it every day..

 

[kolah]

hmm, try a slurry soil sample from a few of your beds and try to get a ph reading from that. My well is around 7.8 ph so I am not sure that is the issue beacuse I have used this same well for years at the same ph and always had great results.

However I too am experiencing some oddities this year that I never have before...mostly for me it is some persistent "kinda wanna flower early, but not really" shit going on for me, but they are all growing daily.

Maybe the gub'ment put something new in the chem trails, lol...Like why is it 48 degrees this morning??

Is the overall growth fine? or are you very disappointed and wish you could start over? Try making a tea slurry with a bunch of alfalfa and dump that on the beds...for the triacontanol, you should see a huge difference within 48 hours if you aren't already using any form of tria.

Good luck!

highlighted in red... Funny you mention hat because yes, I too had some odd early flowering and it almost appears as if some plants got confused into staying in veg or to flower (thus the crinkly new growths shoots) I started them early indoors (like I always do) and matched their indoor light times to current outdoor lighting and hardened them out. I also interrupted their dark cycles with 1 hour of light in the middle. That was my first time doing that (GLT) Maybe that had something to do with it, dunno.

answer to your second question highlighted in blue. No, they are non vigorous and small but I am babying them along hoping they will kick into gear. Some of them got culled out and composted. Thank God I started a second batch from seeds (same strains) and they are doing nicely although way behind in growth because I started them late. And yes they are doing fine with the pH water of 7.5

 

[kolah]

Maybe some pests in the soil? I to have noticed a ph change in my well water this year. I always thought the run off from the mountains causes the water in the ground to turn a bit, therefor changing it.

No buggers. I did a good search for pests and eggs in the beds and in the pots. I use a 200x microscope to examine stuff..including soil, plants, leaves and stems.

Since 2006 my water has always been a steady pH at 6-6.5 but this year it's 7.5-7.8

 

[kolah]

my well water ph went up a little this year too (central Ca.)
its 7.6 to 7.8 now..but my plants dont seem to mind a bit.
I spray em with it every day..

Yeah, from what I have read good soil should buffer out a slightly high or low pH esp if it has good microbes in it. Odd to see your water pH has changed too. I may shit-can most of the first batch and focus on the second batch and hopefully it was just a cold temp prob.

 

[kolah]

Try making a tea slurry with a bunch of alfalfa and dump that on the beds...for the triacontanol, you should see a huge difference within 48 hours if you aren't already using any form of tria.

Good luck!

Whats the recipe for your alfalfa slurry? The Gen Organic Biothrive Grow fertilizer I use has alfalfa meal in it as well.

 

[SunGrown]

Whats the recipe for your alfalfa slurry? The Gen Organic Biothrive Grow fertilizer I use has alfalfa meal in it as well.

I am not ever real specific on my tea recipes, but the one I just mixed up was about 3 cups alfalfa pellets(goat feed from the feed store), 3 cups alaska humus, 1 cup humic acid and one cup fulvic acid. In about 10 gallons water and this one gets bubbled till saturday morning. Might add some fish and mycos at the end then I will dilute to about 30 gallons and drench half gallon or so right near the root zone.

But just plain alfalfa soaked in water without an air pump for a few days works as well for the tria.

But, here is an awesome bit of info from davesgardendotcom that I have saved:

Alfalfa Tea, the natural flower booster by Trevor Inkpen

Dry alfalfa is a good slow-release source of nitrogen, but since you will be "digesting" it by letting it ferment in water, the resulting tea is a soluable, fast-acting nitrogen source.

Also, by making alfalfa (or manure) tea, you don't have to worry about weed seeds sprouting from the fertilizer.

Orchid and rose growers use alfalfa tea as a foliar spray. If you grow delphiniums and irises, they also love alfalfa tea. Some iris growers mulch their beds with alfalfa meal. And an additional benefit for delphiniums is that the Epsom salts in the tea help to ward off slugs and snails. In addition to nitrogen, alfalfa supplies enzymes and trace elements that are not present in chemical nitrogen fertilizers.

Alfalfa ingredients:
Triacontanol (growth stimulant)
Vitamin A (high concentration)
Thiamine
Riboflavin
Pantothenic Acid
Niacin
Pyridoxine
Choline
Bentaine
Folic Acid
co-enzymes
Crude proteins (16 - 25% in dry alfalfa)

Amino acids (% in alfalfa meal).
Tryptophan, 0.3 %
Aspartic Acid, 2.3%
Threonine, 1.0 %
Serine, 1.0%
Glutamic Acid, 2.7%
Proline, 1.2%
Glycine, 1.1%
Alanine, 1.1%
Cystine, 0.2%
Valine, 1.0%
Methionine, 0.3%
Isoleucine, 0.8%
Leucine, 1.6%
Tyrosine, 0.5%
Phenylalanine, 1.0%
Histidine, 0.4%
Lysine, Total, 1.1%
Arginine, 1.1%

Minerals (contained in dry alfalfa)
Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 %
Potassium .75 - 3.5 %
Phosphorus .3 - .7%
Calcium 1 - 2 %
Magnesium .30 - 1 %
Sulphur .2 - .5 %
Manganese 30-200 ppm
Iron 20-250 ppm
Boron 20-80 ppm
Copper 5-20 ppm
Zinc 20-70 ppm

The Mix:
Choose a garbage bin or barrel with no leaks and a tight fitting lid. Position it in an out of the way place - you don't want to have to move it once it's full. For a full size garbage bin (20 gallons) add 16 cups of alfalfa pellets or alfalfa meal (4 cups to every 5 gallons or 22 litres of water)

Add 1 - 2 cups of Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate crystals) (or one quarter to half a cup to 5 gallons) Optionally, add two tablespoons of Iron Chelate
Fill with water, put on a tight lid to prevent mosquitos from breeding in your "swamp"
Let stand for one week until it bubbles with fermentation. Your nose will tell you that it's ready.

Using it:

Apply alfalfa tea once per month in the spring and summer, especially after the first flush of flowers, to encourage repeat blooming. You can reduce or eliminate the Epsom salts in later batches.

Stop applying it in the fall, when you want the plants to start hardening off for the winter, and don't want to encourage soft new growth.

Put on some old clothes - you're going to get splashed, and you don't want to be socializing with anyone while wearing the alfalfa tea!

Scoop off the liquid with a bucket and apply.

Pour a gallon of tea per rose around the base of the plant; more for large climbers, less for potted roses and minis.

Soak small potted roses in a bucket of tea for 15 minutes each.

When you have scooped off most of the liquid, you will be left with a thick goop of alfalfa in the garbage bin. There are two ways to treat this:

Method A: You can add another quarter-cup of epsom salts, fill the garbage can one third of the way up again, and stir the mix briskly so that the alfalfa is suspended in the water. This slurry can be applied to your roses immediately. Choose the roses in the back of your beds for this tea, where the greenish brown puddle of alfalfa slurry won't be too visible.

Method B: Add the full dose of Epsom salts, refill to the top with water and let sit for another week. Use the liquid, and then bury the alfalfa dregs into your compost pile (by this time they will be pretty smelly)

Another Recipe:

May I share with you and your many gardening friends my recipe for "Alfalfa Tea". I use it to fertilize everything in my garden. I have wonderful results. I can water a plant with it and the next day the blooms are more intense in their color and the foliage is more healthy. The only drawback is the "barnyard odor".

ALFALFA TEA

32 GALLON TRASH CAN
10 CUPS ALFALFA PELLETS (obtained from feed stores)
1 CUP EPSOM SALTS
1 CUP FISH EMULSION

Add the pellets to the trash can. Fill trash can with water. Stir. Cover trash can tightly with lid. For the next three days stir "tea" several times a day in order to dissolve the pellets. Keep covered. On the third day add epsom salts and fish emulsion. It is ready to use on any vegetable, plant, tree or bush. I guarantee success.You will never want to use a commercially prepared fertilizer again. At times I have been out of epsom salts and the fish emulsion and I have omitted those products and the results have been good but not as spectacular. I store the "tea" in gallon plastic containers and hide these around my garden so that I don't have to always take the "tea" from the trash can.

When all the "tea" is used, there will be enough pellet residue in the bottom of the trash can that you again fill the trash can with water and make more "tea".

Rachel Reed

Read more: http://davesgarden.com/guides/terms/go/2294/#ixzz35n9hT6PA

Here is the page it is from, http://davesgarden.com/guides/terms/go/2294/

sorry about the big post but I hope this is helpful

 

[Mr_GreenGenes]

Do you add any Dolomite Lime to your soil mix? I use FF OF and HF and my well water is up arpund 7.4...the lime really helps keep the PH in check. I use 1 cup per cu. ft. of medium and mix it in good. I'd be surprised if it doesn't help. MGG

 

[Seamaiden]

I've grown outdoors and in a Greenhouse for 5 years plus. I never had issues with my well water as it was always a consistent 6.0-6.5. I have never had to check my soil pH or runoff as I just read plants as they progressed and without problems. Until this year.

I decided to check my water pH with those 12 dollar water test kits. You fill the vial half full with water and squirt in a few drops of pH tester then match the color to the chart. I tested my well water 3 times and each time I came out with a pH of 7.5. I am unsure if that much alkaline water would effect my MJ. ??

In many of my plants they have shown some tacoing at new growths and at the tops only and growth is stunted/slowed. Usually I grow some damn good sized plants in veg but not this year.

I use a mix of HF, OF and my own compost about 1:1:1 ratio and use General Organic liq ferts. Sometimes I top dress with some aged chicken poop. I have never ph'ed my soil...(maybe I did in my 1st and 2nd year, dunno for sure)

Other than some slight leaf tacoing, there are no signs of deficiency, just little growth and stunted out. And many plants are not taking on that happy perky leaf formation...they just remain a bit droopy all the time..like often observed at night time.

Could my 7.5 water pH be causing a lock out of some sorts?
Maybe I should do a Ph run-off test in the plants that are still in 3 and 5 gallon pots? (some plants are in my beds and doing a run-off test would be impossible)

I find it odd I never had issues before when my water pH was always 6.0 to 6.5 and I am unsure if the new pH of 7.5 is the main culprit. Same soil and same ferts. Hmm. (head scratch)

Night temps have been cold, mid 30's and 40's, day time temps in the 70's. The RH hangs around 30-50% in the GH which has always been the norm every summer up here. They have plenty of ventilation as well.

Thoughts and advice appreciated.

What other parameters may be different here? That's my first question. You mention the cold temps, is this unusual for this time of year? Are they truly droopy (no turgor to the leaves at all, as though over/underwatered), or are they clamped inward, but have turgor? If they're clamped inward, then I would say they're not happy with the temps in relation to the RH, and daytime temps only getting up into the 70s may not quite be high enough to keep them happy. Insulating the root ball is always helpful with temperature extremes, IME.

Now, I use my unfiltered well water outside and it usually has a pH of around 8, often higher (once tested @9!), and, using the Tetra Laborette home testing kit I found that it's also high in both general mineral and carbonate hardness. I have not found that to cause a problem with my outdoor plants yet, but I do expect a problem to arise over time due to those high carbonate levels. The kit measures carbonates as degrees of German hardness, aka dKH. It's a fairly good, reliable kit, especially considering the cost (about $25 or so).

So, right now I think it's important to take all parameters into consideration here and not focus solely on pH.

 

[kolah]

Do you add any Dolomite Lime to your soil mix? I use FF OF and HF and my well water is up arpund 7.4...the lime really helps keep the PH in check. I use 1 cup per cu. ft. of medium and mix it in good. I'd be surprised if it doesn't help. MGG

I have never had problems with my soil mix in the past so I have never used dolomite although I think it's a great amendment. I think I'll use it in the future for sure. Thanks

 

[kolah]

What other parameters may be different here? That's my first question. You mention the cold temps, is this unusual for this time of year? Are they truly droopy (no turgor to the leaves at all, as though over/underwatered), or are they clamped inward, but have turgor? If they're clamped inward, then I would say they're not happy with the temps in relation to the RH, and daytime temps only getting up into the 70s may not quite be high enough to keep them happy. Insulating the root ball is always helpful with temperature extremes, IME.

Now, I use my unfiltered well water outside and it usually has a pH of around 8, often higher (once tested @9!), and, using the Tetra Laborette home testing kit I found that it's also high in both general mineral and carbonate hardness. I have not found that to cause a problem with my outdoor plants yet, but I do expect a problem to arise over time due to those high carbonate levels. The kit measures carbonates as degrees of German hardness, aka dKH. It's a fairly good, reliable kit, especially considering the cost (about $25 or so).

So, right now I think it's important to take all parameters into consideration here and not focus solely on pH.

Yes it has be abnormally cold here at nights. I should clarify a bit though. Night time temps are cold yes...and the same temps, outside and inside the greenhouse. My GH plastic is zero R factor. Although the daytime temps are only 70 or so (outside) but the GH stays toasty at 80-85.

They are droopy looking, no real rigidity at all (any time of the day) and my first thought was over watered so I let them dry out and observed no change. In my experience I have found that if plants are under watered a good watering springs them back to life very quickly. Therefore I ruled those two scenarios out.

I agree that keeping the rootball warm is key in cold temps. It's quite possible that the few nights it dipped around 32 degrees really shocked them or possibly got them sick and they are struggling to survive. Ad we've had many nights hovering around 34-38 degrees F.

My second batch of seeds which I started much later in the year are doing fine but then again they are still small (approx 10-12" tall). And they are in the same soil and getting watered with the same stuff. I am keeping a close eye on them to make sure they don't follow the same fate as my first batch.

I mixed up an alfalfa slurry yesterday and hit them hard this morning. They are going to either sink or swim. I'll keep ya'll posted on how things turn out. Tanks' for all the help...I'm still learning.

I probably should have popped up a few pics...but basically they look very similar to overwatered MMJ.

 

[Seamaiden]

If there's no turgor, then I might want to check out the roots of the worst one. IME pH doesn't cause that sort of problem, but disease can.

 

[kolah]

here's some pics. note: hardly any visible growth in 3 friggin weeks. Usually at this time of year my greenhouse is a g-damn jungle. To me it is as if they are stuck in between veg and flower. I'd call this a crinkly, curly look only at the new growth shoots. W. T. F. ?

 

[kolah]

SM, I pulled some more sick plants out of their pots and inspected the soil and roots. No signs of anything bad or suspicious.

It has effected many different strains so I can rule out strain-specific problems.

Same soil.

Not all plants are effected.,...but a large majority are.

My biggest concern is that my second batch of plants (which currently look great) may end up with the same fate. Especially if it's some oddball disease issue. I don't think this is tobacco or mosaic virus but then again I am not real knowledgeable when it comes to MJ disease. Guess it's time to crack open the books and learn some.

 

[Dirty White Boy]

This is definitely not mosaic or tobacco for sure. I have had this issue in beds before with out of range ph and low root zone Temps during the winter in shallow beds.....hmm. if your soil is rich and has well built microbiology then ph won't be a culprit. And root zone temps tend too have different warning signs.....I'll hit the books too see if I can't help ya out brutha. My guess is its a deficiency of some sort caused by environmental stress.

 

[caveman4.20]

I got problems in the transition also GLR but I've hardened off fine before with GLR and this spring just one plant out of ten transitioned smooth

 

[caveman4.20]

 

[kolah]

This is definitely not mosaic or tobacco for sure. I have had this issue in beds before with out of range ph and low root zone Temps during the winter in shallow beds.....hmm. if your soil is rich and has well built microbiology then ph won't be a culprit. And root zone temps tend too have different warning signs.....I'll hit the books too see if I can't help ya out brutha. My guess is its a deficiency of some sort caused by environmental stress.

thanks man! appreciate your help.

"corkscrew" would be another good word to describe it..and only the new growth shoots are effected.