Water PH rising alot overnight

[Flexnerb]

Did you not use air stone?

Did you figure out your alkalinity issue?

 

[Buddin Buddy]

Did you figure out your alkalinity issue?

Yeah, as aqua man pointed out, raising the PH first then lowering it, and then adding neuts stabilized the ph.

 

[3 balls]

Ok let me explain... normally you don't add both because you can change your nutrient ratios. But you need to have a PH buffer or the PH will be very unstable.

So first start low. Take your tap water and add 1/2 tsp per 5 gal of ph up. Measure ph and if over 8 the reduce to 6.5 with ph down before adding your nutrients. This is to make sure you don't have nutrients precipitate out of the solution.

Then add your nutrients as directed. I suggest half the recommended does of each but I won't get into that as this about ph and need to get that fixed.

After adding nutrients ph down to 5.8.

Check the mix in an hr or 2 after mixing if using water straight from the tap as the PH may rise slightly. If it's up ph down to 5.8.

From there test it again in 24 hrs. The PH should rise about 0.2-0.3. If it's more then we will adjust the buffer at that point based on the change you see.

Once we figure out the amount need for a proper buffer your golden and will know exactly how much to add for a nice stable ph.

This works! I have no idea how or why but it does. Over the years I've asked different reps about the problem and either got nonsense answers or start with a crazy low ph to anticipate the rise.

Aqua Man for President!

 

[Aqua Man]

This works! I have no idea how or why but it does. Over the years I've asked different reps about the problem and either got nonsense answers or start with a crazy low ph to anticipate the rise.

Aqua Man for President!

Haha just a high-school drop out who has tinkered with water for a long time. If you think plants don't like ph swings you should see discus or other sensitive fish. Pretty much all I know about hydro came from my 20 yrs of breeding fish and aquatic plants. Those ppl are gods at water chemistry, nutrients and microbes. Balancing sensitive living things like shrimp with live plants, nutrients and bennies is far more challenging... but ime far less rewarding lol. It's a lot of work for little gain.

I maybe made $400-700 a month on average with over 20 tanks. And probably 2 hrs a day of work. But it was a passion for a long time. Once the passion wore off it was a shit ton of work. I even managed to breed amano shrimp and that was probably one of the most intriguing ventures I have done. They breed and live in fresh water then need to be transitioned to saltwater and as they progress through thier stages back to fresh water. I was one of the first few in NA to accomplish this and was a very proud moment. I wish I had pictures of it all but unfortunately all I have is my last tank. Most of you have seen it but yeah miss it sometimes

 

[3 balls]

Just to add PH of tap will usually rise about 0.4. This is due to the carbonic acid content from the break down of organics in a closed pressurized system. Co2 can't escape and if forced into the water to form carbonic acid which will slightly reduce the PH according to the alkalinity of the supply.

You don't need to off gas chlorine. Most tap waters are now using chloramine which is a bond of ammonia and chlorine and even if aerated can last over a week.

The amount in tap water is almost negligible for our purposes but if your really worried about it 1 gram of ascorbic acid (vitamin C)) will neutralize 1ppm of chlorine/chloramine in 100gal of water. So you can calculate that. Water supplies are allowed no more than 4ppm and most are 1-2ppm.

My water districts water quality report doesn't list chloramine, only chlorine ppm. Is it possible they wouldn't list it specifically? Or maybe they use the terms interchangeably? I don't want to bother with the ascorbic acid because I also plumb my filtered water to humidifiers. I hate the chalky film residue. The filter options are very different if your trying to eliminate chloramines vs just chlorine. Thanks in advance @Aqua Man

 

[Aqua Man]

My water districts water quality report doesn't list chloramine, only chlorine ppm. Is it possible they wouldn't list it specifically? Or maybe they use the terms interchangeably? I don't want to bother with the ascorbic acid because I also plumb my filtered water to humidifiers. I hate the chalky film residue. The filter options are very different if your trying to eliminate chloramines vs just chlorine. Thanks in advance @Aqua Man

You don't need to remove them imo. If they use chloramine it's would absolutely specifically say so. A quality carbon filter with a proper dwell time will remove both chlorine and chloramine but imo not worth the cost..... especially if its chlorine.

With aeration or agitation you can easily remove it within 24hrs. But like I say I would consider it a non issue

 

[3 balls]

You don't need to remove them imo. If they use chloramine it's would absolutely specifically say so. A quality carbon filter with a proper dwell time will remove both chlorine and chloramine but imo not worth the cost..... especially if its chlorine.

With aeration or agitation you can easily remove it within 24hrs. But like I say I would consider it a non issue

I seriously doubt the 1.2ppm chlorine would decimate all of my overpriced bennies but since I already have the unit I figure I should put the proper replacement filter in it. Thanks again

 

[Aqua Man]

I seriously doubt the 1.2ppm chlorine would decimate all of my overpriced bennies but since I already have the unit I figure I should put the proper replacement filter in it. Thanks again

Anytime. And agree 100%

 

[Frankster]

You don't need to remove them imo. If they use chloramine it's would absolutely specifically say so. A quality carbon filter with a proper dwell time will remove both chlorine and chloramine but imo not worth the cost..... especially if its chlorine.

With aeration or agitation you can easily remove it within 24hrs. But like I say I would consider it a non issue

Yea, I've only got a little filter carbon filter on the sink anymore, and the water we get comes from the mountains. All that money for the RO and work for basically the same results....

Here's the report. When I make up my mixtures, I'm usually doing them the night before, so they can sit, and if I add some proteins, sugars, enzymes, or microbes, I like to let it sit, because sometimes the pH will change a little, as it's breaking it down...

Do you think it's generally advised to make you aqueous of acids, then titrate it back upward keeping slightly acidic? Seems like at the end of the day, OH- levels are what matter most...

Here's how I check pH every time, I know all the colors just by look... Anytime you have anything organic in your mixture, you could have some pH fluctuations, unless it's been broken down into simple chemical species.

Basically I'm trying for a supramolecular mixture of what the plant needs most at any given time.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yea, I've only got a little filter carbon filter on the sink anymore, and the water we get comes from the mountains. All that money for the RO and work for basically the same results....

Here's the report. When I make up my mixtures, I'm usually doing them the night before, so they can sit, and if I add some proteins, sugars, enzymes, or microbes, I like to let it sit, because sometimes the pH will change a little, as it's breaking it down...

Do you think it's generally advised to make you aqueous of acids, then titrate it back toward the center at slightly acidic?
Here's how I check pH every time, I know all the colors just by look... Anytime you have anything organic in your mixture, you could have some pH fluctuations, unless it's been broken down into simple chemical species.

Imo microbes are very ph sensitive and should always be added last. Ph stabilize RO water or source water if needed add nutrients etc. Adjust ph then add microbes.

There are many different microbes and all have preferences as to temp, ph, salinity etc. Generally for the ones we use they are obviously going to prefer a ph in the range we grow in.

So imo you want all your stuff in and ph, temp adjusted before adding your microbes.

 

[Bjg]

Yes by looking at that water report that's exactly your problem. You also have no need to worry about chlorine... very small amounts.

Yes either potassium bicarbonate or potassium silicate will work.

The reason be is like this... let's call alkaline source base represented by B. And wel will call acid sources A.

your tap has low amount of B

so it will look like this.

B

now you ph down adding acid and it looks like this.

B/A ratio 50/50 acid to base say ph 6

Now when you add more base first it looks like this.

BBBBBBBBBB.

so to bring the PH down you now need to add more acid to make it equal so you get this.

BBBBBBBBBB/AAAAAAAAAA same thing here 50/50 ratio ph of 6

many things influence your ph so let's look at your tap first.

B/A now add or reduce any acid or base. Eg when plant uptakes nitrate the ion exchange will cause ph to rise so add a B to you mix.

BB/A now the ratio is 66.6/33.3 you ow have twice as much base as acid causing ph to shift from 6 to 7.

Now in the buffered solution the same scenario.

BBBBBBBBBBB/AAAAAAAAAA ratio is now 52.5/47.5 ph only changes from 6 to 6.1 almost no change to ph.

That make it a bit easier to understand?


What source of ph down are you using?

This is brilliant! You should've been a school teacher teacher.

 

[Mr.Miguardi]

@Aqua Man sorry to bother you and revive this year old thread, i readed it all but i have some doubt about it.
I'm growing HEMP in RDWC sterile system using tap water (no RO or similar system) and airstone.
In my last (and first) grow the Ph continued to drift and rise to 6.4 but not beyond, also adjusting PH to 5.8 the value the value keep returning 6.4 in some hour, usually over a night.
Ph rising with tap water and no nute seems to be greater, usually from 5.8 to 6.8.

Tried your suggestion, added 0.22g/L of Ph+ from GHE to plain water and then regulated the ph to 5.8 but the next day the value rised again to 6.7/6.8.
So i added nute to 0.7 EC and ph moved automatically to 5.7/5.8 but next day raised again to 6.4, added ph- but the next day it was again to 6.4.
System is sterile and water seems to returning easily to 6.4/6.8 so i think it's CaCO3 from the faucet water.
Do you think i need to add more carbonate or trying with another source of carbonate? my goal is to have a pretty stable ph.
my tap water come with an EC arounf 0.190 and this is the official analisis from the water company