Watering, how media, pot size/shape and environment affect it

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Veteran

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I was just reading an article on manicbotanix and thought it could be interesting to read it and discus some information related to this topic.
Let me start first : According to the following article K uptake is reduces by high vpd while in general we keep rh% low at the end of bloom. So my question is what is the best thing to do at end of bloom? How high do we go in Vpd? How do we know if K uptake is optimal.
I know that this question doesnt seem to relate to the topic but if you read the article you will see it has some subjects in common like oxygen level in root zone fertigation frequency etc. And my idea is to give others the opportunity to ask question about the article and ad something to this already great topic. This is the link:

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I was just reading an article on manicbotanix and thought it could be interesting to read it and discus some information related to this topic.
Let me start first : According to the following article K uptake is reduces by high vpd while in general we keep rh% low at the end of bloom. So my question is what is the best thing to do at end of bloom? How high do we go in Vpd? How do we know if K uptake is optimal.
I know that this question doesnt seem to relate to the topic but if you read the article you will see it has some subjects in common like oxygen level in root zone fertigation frequency etc. And my idea is to give others the opportunity to ask question about the article and ad something to this already great topic. This is the link:

View attachment 1139355
Precisely why I cut cal supplements back 50% after stretch and stop all together after swelling.

I dont think K is reduced so much due to transpiration but it's not something I'm confident to say absolutely.

Many nutrients limit uptake of K. P and N also do. IMO P should be fed in veg and early flower more so than mid to late for partially the same reason. N is the same. But ratios are taken to far in general imo and a transition ratio should be fed through flower with N, P and Ca being reduced after stretch and cut as much as possible after swelling.

Just my opinion.
 
Veteran

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Precisely why I cut cal supplements back 50% after stretch and stop all together after swelling.

I dont think K is reduced so much due to transpiration but it's not something I'm confident to say absolutely.

Many nutrients limit uptake of K. P and N also do. IMO P should be fed in veg and early flower more so than mid to late for partially the same reason. N is the same. But ratios are taken to far in general imo and a transition ratio should be fed through flower with N, P and Ca being reduced after stretch and cut as much as possible after swelling.

Just my opinion.
I agree , but its hard to realize if you dont mix you own nutes from salt. I dont know if there is a nute line to do this with.
 
GDub51

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Great info brother
While down for the count this season: BIKE CRASH Grade 3 A.C. separation, can't type much. Hurts too much. Even the last try (4th or 5th? this season) is drowning in soil that retains every drop of moisture seemingly longer than I have left on earth. B4 crash I mixed up yet another soil batch for yet another batch of seedlings (see pics) and they may look fine to you but they haven't had but a couple of cups of water the entire time (going on 3 wks now) they have been in this newest soil mix. Full of perlite, pumice, rocks, vermiculite, and "cactus and succulent mix" soil to once and for all create a soil that would drain to no avail...then the bike crash!! HURTS TO TYPE Any ideas for next year? These will just die off now...maybe I'm not getting the hint. Do I have to dump all this soil again? I'm lost. Can't do much about it now, with one arm. Just maybe if I try again next year.
 
Aqua Man

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While down for the count this season: BIKE CRASH Grade 3 A.C. separation, can't type much. Hurts too much. Even the last try (4th or 5th? this season) is drowning in soil that retains every drop of moisture seemingly longer than I have left on earth. B4 crash I mixed up yet another soil batch for yet another batch of seedlings (see pics) and they may look fine to you but they haven't had but a couple of cups of water the entire time (going on 3 wks now) they have been in this newest soil mix. Full of perlite, pumice, rocks, vermiculite, and "cactus and succulent mix" soil to once and for all create a soil that would drain to no avail...then the bike crash!! HURTS TO TYPE Any ideas for next year? These will just die off now...maybe I'm not getting the hint. Do I have to dump all this soil again? I'm lost. Can't do much about it now, with one arm. Just maybe if I try again next year.
Maybe try starting them in smaller pots. What's the weather been like? That could have a big impact.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I agree , but its hard to realize if you dont mix you own nutes from salt. I dont know if there is a nute line to do this with.
I looked at heavy 16 recently because a grower I'm helping is using it. I can't get it up here in Canada but if you don't mind paying an arm and a leg. It actually is pretty well thought out program they have, includes tricantonal and actually impressed me all around with the ratios and schedules they use and suggest.
 
Veteran

Veteran

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I looked at heavy 16 recently because a grower I'm helping is using it. I can't get it up here in Canada but if you don't mind paying an arm and a leg. It actually is pretty well thought out program they have, includes tricantonal and actually impressed me all around with the ratios and schedules they use and suggest.
I looked at heavy 16 recently because a grower I'm helping is using it. I can't get it up here in Canada but if you don't mind paying an arm and a leg. It actually is pretty well thought out program they have, includes tricantonal and actually impressed me all around with the ratios and schedules they use and suggest.
Thanks for the tip, i looked it up and like it that they provide the npk ratio’s for the suplements aswell. 👍
 
GDub51

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Because the height will always be the same. You take a clear plastic cup with good drain holes and add the mix. Then saturate with water and let it sit a few hrs. You will be able to see the height of the water through the clear cup.
Where should this cup be kept while "drying" out? In the sun as the plants or??
 
GDub51

GDub51

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Maybe try starting them in smaller pots. What's the weather been like? That could have a big impact.
I start in large Jiffy cups until plants have about 5 sets of serrated leaves then into the tall ones. Never had a problem with this one transplant method before, watering in a small circle around the small transplant until it starts to explode in veg as I'm used to. By this time of year my plants are usually using two gallons of water every three days or so and are about 4 feet tall. I have to water these with a turkey baster, in a circle a little larger than the root ball, encouraging the plant to reach out for fresh water. NOPE. So even now the larger older plants are in the worst soil (the second mix) only get a cup or two every three to five days. The first round plant, OG Kush (Growers Choice Seeds) started 3/21 is still only 9" tall. The second round plants (Gorilla Bomb, Bombseeds) are now about 18 to 21" tall (I'm used to their being about twice that size by now. The last round of new plants, Godfather OG (Weedseedexpress) (in the 3rd soil mix this time) are only 6 to 9" tall I started in May. It has been cool for here, high 70's to low 80's day to low 60's at night and a little more humid than normal for my "coastal desert" environment (40% +-).
I still think the left over soil, so full of rhizomes and so fine a particle size after raking in the sun to kill off any pathogens after the first round of failures is the problem. You can see from the pics all the perlite. The vermiculite tends to sink while the perlite tends to rise. I even used a bunch of rocks and "cactus & succulent soil" on the bottom for good drainage and added in MORE perlite and pumice into the mix until about 50% of total volume. The slightly cooler temps I'm sure are not the issue, as drastic as it is. My moisture meter (as you can see in the pics) reads WET everywhere in the pot down three to four inches. Totally dry on top and totally a swamp down by four inches. When pulling previous failures this season the roots had not expanded or reached down at all. They just popped out with a root ball smaller than a tennis ball. I've tried everything! I've started over 3 TIMES! THIS SEASON with newly mixed soil for better drainage each time only to wind up with the same problem! IT MUST BE THE LEFTOVER GROUND UP RHIZOMES FROM THE LAST 2 PREVIOUS "FEED THE SOIL" YEARS. I believe I must throw away ALL this soil again. Get rid of the leftover rhizomes and mix all new soil. I need to hear from other growers who are using mychorhizae to increase rhizome content, and if it is turning their soil to mud as well. I have a stage 3 acromioclavicular separation of the left shoulder from a bicycling accident and can't do any heavy gardening anymore this year, so I'll just have to watch the existing plants waste away in their desert looking swamp. I don't even know how I'm going to dump all my soil. No place left in my yard and I can't lift the pots anymore. Has no one had this problem? Every year I'm presented with challenges that make growing weed ever more difficult. I thought with all the study I've put in I'd be happy raising healthy and medicinally helpful plants by now. Instead I keep running into walls that either weaken the medicinal value of the plants or this year simply destroys them. I have to "give up" due to my injury. I can't repot these again. But I hope I can get this figured out for next year if I decide to try again. This year I've spent more money on growing than I would have in buying delivery! Why should I do that? And to have all this mental anguish added to my existing injury is a real bummer. I've listened. I've re-potted, I've changed soil mixes adding more perlite, vermiculite and pumice as well as cactus & succulent soil, I've sanitized the soil to kill pathogens by raking in the sun and letting it bake before re-charge, I recharge per instructions on the web. I bought a huge 40 gallon bucket to mix the new soil in to help insure the balance was correct. (When one says 40% perlite in the mix do they mean by volume or weight?) I went the volume rout. Now with my injury all I can do is watch these die and try to build my knowledge for next year. (IF I go back to growing) In five seasons I've never produced something comparable to delivery quality. All I've found of any use is I can mix the dry ice extracted keif from my grow with the same ground flower to boost medicinal levels to something effective for my Ankylosing Spondylitis and now messed up shoulder. Shall I try again? Does anyone have any advice for me? What do growers using mychorhizae do with their used soil? Has anyone seen this mass of tiny "roots" these leave behind? (I've removed the plants roots first thing) Has anyone had a similar problem?
 
GDub51

GDub51

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Because the height will always be the same. You take a clear plastic cup with good drain holes and add the mix. Then saturate with water and let it sit a few hrs. You will be able to see the height of the water through the clear cup.
I'm trying the drain test on raw left over raked over soil. I can't even get the soil in the cup to saturate. It's so dense its just running off the side. I've reduced the water to a dribble but after 20 min. the soil is still not saturated. Obviously too dense. Next I'll try mix three, my last attempt it should at least be good for the test. I'm assuming group one fails in that it would not even saturate evenly. Group three is still filling with a dribble. At ten minutes there are still air pockets on the side. After about 20 min. of filling mix 3 is now "saturated". I'm letting it sit with the other plants to check this evening. Unfortunately, 90% of the mass of soil I have is the old "dusty stuff". I don't even know what I would do if I had to dump all of it. However, it seems my raking to detoxify the stuff along with all the recharge mixing has ruined it. I wish I knew. I'll be back with the results of the water saturation test.
 
GDub51

GDub51

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Maybe try starting them in smaller pots. What's the weather been like? That could have a big impact.
sorry for the late reply. My shoulder injury makes it impossible for me to re-pot these again. The weather continues cool, 60 to 80. The top leaves fell over today on one of the 3rd round Gorilla Bombs. So difficult to watch all that work go down the drain and helplessly wait for their demise. I'm certain now it's the fungal mass left over that I (in an effort to sterilize the soil after 1st round failures) inadvertently broke into "dust" raking it over and over in the sun. This insidious dust falls in-between and down the bucket when re-charge mixing, pot filling etc. falling out of site making the soil look OK. Especially when turning the top soil in an effort to aerate, I only serve to "sieve" the fungal dust down, raising the water table and sealing out air flow. I've also used a poker to help aerate the soil outside the root ball. Even the last mix is stalled, drowning. I sure wish I had a cannabis buddy close by to help. I got some auto's, Bruce Banner Fast from WeedSeedExpress. I'm thinking it would raise my spirit some to try one. I've never done an auto. They can do OK in a smaller (one/two gallon) pot, right? I think I can handle that size one handed. Something successful from this season would sure serve to cheer me up. Not a gram of the old soil will be in THIS my 5th soil mix. ALL NEW Ocean Forest, 40%, Bu's Blend compost, 20%, perlite, sand, pumice pebbles 40%.
 
Frankster

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How about a "wetting agent?"
wetting agents aren't a bad idea, personally I use saponin powder, an extract of >10%

It's good for cutting down any salt buildup, no doubt. But it certainly can be overdone IMO, just as anything else. Balance is the key. When you see the water's not absorbing well, it's maybe time.

I use other things for wetting agents above the root line also, and keeping things clean up topside. Vegetable glycerin is probably the most suitable wetting agent/surfactant for the canopy itself, IMO. The pH is very optimal, and it's a biochemical fraction that's naturally already present in some form, within the plant, natrually.
 
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GDub51

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Ok lots of posts on how to water plants. So I thought I would put together a thread on how different factors contribute to different results that ppl see. This is again not my work so don't go giving me credit although I will add some to it.

This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.

First I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.

PERCHED WATER TABLE

What is it?

The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel eachother out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers issues with watering practices especially in soil grows.

WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION

CAPILLARY action is is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.

In short adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)

Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.

So as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and at the point gravity and these properties cancel eachother out is the perched water table.

This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". Which means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.

Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.

DIFFERENT MEDIA

Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.

The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.

By adding things like perlite or vermiculite (while vermiculite is good at absorbing water it also improves drainage so its helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throught the media while increasing drainage due to its size) we can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and inturn the height of the perched water table.

Media's like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.

Adding thing like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because as I said the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.

Basically the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.

If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.

POT SIZE

I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.

I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.

You also don't want a pot that's to tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.

Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see sooo often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DEIVES ME NUTS. Why because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though tap roots grow straight down so we to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.

It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in o2. If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.


Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So again it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weekss depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it become much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so its less likely to over water and why uppotting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.

POT MATERIAL

Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.

This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the lager the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in say fabric pots. This imo has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for o2 levels in the root zone that I feel are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.

It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of o2 and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich o2 and water. Hydro similar with slightly less o2, soiless media's such as coco and I would possible include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and its not hard to see the difference in thier air holding capacity in that order. And the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expell co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY

The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.

The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs

The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.

Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.

The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.

First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will gives my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Mr.Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well it's 2 fold because of the cool temps the viscosity (measument of flow rate) of the sap will decrease so its harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher (but aqua you just said it slows absorption) well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symtom many refer to overwatering which againnos lack of o2. Now take a cold rootzone where the plants slow water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recover is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.

So you your pots up off the floor 😁

WET AND DRY CYCLES

in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symtoms of over watering and help with o2 levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media's or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of o2 quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gage watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.

This is much less of an issue when using soiless like coco or peat/perlite.

I'm going to stop here for tonight and will edit and add to as I get time.
Firstly I'd like to say I consider Aqua Man to be one of the best sources of good information for this hobby. Yet I'm lost this year. I tried your water table test. Could not get the soil totally wet, air pockets kept from distinguishing any "line" until the soil became mud. I've got my draining agents (perlite, pumice, sand "cactus & succulent soil") up to 40% of mix with Ocean Forest 40% and compost 20%. This soil still will not dry in temps outside that range from 60 to 82'F with humidity at 40% + -. The only new ingredient was the cactus/succulent soil, touted for great drainage. I'm used to using about 2 gallons per plant every 3 days at this time of year. I'm instead constantly driving the meter in to find WET everywhere under an inch of top soil. I've been "watering" with a sprayer and then a basting syringe instead of the usual 2 gallon can! I'm already in tall cans as advised for better drainage and more room for roots. I have thought the problem was with leftover hyphae from using mycorrhizae ground up when raking soil in the sun after the 1st failures figuring soil born disease. Yet with all new soil and the mix above the problem persists and I've lost 56 plants so far this season (every single one either dead or a runt) I'm still stuck in this rut. Even the auto I started 7/6 is screwed up with cupping leaves as if light burn but outdoors with an auto?? I'm at the end of my rope. It's like going to ride your bike and suddenly you can't anymore, falling with each attempt as if you never rode one before. It doesn't make monetary sense to dump all this $ into dead or worthless plants, but the hobby has become self consuming as I strive to make my own medicine for my disease. I don't know what to try next.
 
GDub51

GDub51

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Great info brother
Unfortunately, my theory seems not to be my root problem. Tried again (5th try this year) with all new soil mix for the same result, stunted plants in choking soil that will not drain or dry. I even added cactus/succulent soil @20% for drainage along with the perlite and pumice 20% to no avail. Pots of very expensive mud with stunted worthless plants. I don't get it. Now with only one good arm and so little time this season is a complete loss. Never happened before in 6 previous grows. Maybe I'll switch to a peat moss mix next year to create some air pockets in the mix and finally hopefully getting proper drainage. If only my plants grew like my busted up shoulder!
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Firstly I'd like to say I consider Aqua Man to be one of the best sources of good information for this hobby. Yet I'm lost this year. I tried your water table test. Could not get the soil totally wet, air pockets kept from distinguishing any "line" until the soil became mud. I've got my draining agents (perlite, pumice, sand "cactus & succulent soil") up to 40% of mix with Ocean Forest 40% and compost 20%. This soil still will not dry in temps outside that range from 60 to 82'F with humidity at 40% + -. The only new ingredient was the cactus/succulent soil, touted for great drainage. I'm used to using about 2 gallons per plant every 3 days at this time of year. I'm instead constantly driving the meter in to find WET everywhere under an inch of top soil. I've been "watering" with a sprayer and then a basting syringe instead of the usual 2 gallon can! I'm already in tall cans as advised for better drainage and more room for roots. I have thought the problem was with leftover hyphae from using mycorrhizae ground up when raking soil in the sun after the 1st failures figuring soil born disease. Yet with all new soil and the mix above the problem persists and I've lost 56 plants so far this season (every single one either dead or a runt) I'm still stuck in this rut. Even the auto I started 7/6 is screwed up with cupping leaves as if light burn but outdoors with an auto?? I'm at the end of my rope. It's like going to ride your bike and suddenly you can't anymore, falling with each attempt as if you never rode one before. It doesn't make monetary sense to dump all this $ into dead or worthless plants, but the hobby has become self consuming as I strive to make my own medicine for my disease. I don't know what to try next.
Could be the compost... I know outside I spread mine on the top and don't mix it in more than an inch or 2 for my garden.

Peat is a much more forgiving media imo.

Hopefully once the temps come up things start kicking ass for ya
 
Edinburgh

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Coco holds water longer then pots, pots hold water longer than fabric pots bc the outside of pot drys first, i grow autoflowers and 99.9% of my plants go in 3gal nursery pots the smaller strains in 1.9litre.
 
lvstealth

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I was not really talking about why, I get that. That is easy enough to grasp. It was more the how.

But I solved that now also, so I'm all kinds of happy.

I can very precisely control it now. For me, it was the actual dynamic. Once I figured that out it all came together.

Thanks though for the effort!
 
Frankster

Frankster

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Unfortunately, my theory seems not to be my root problem. Tried again (5th try this year) with all new soil mix for the same result, stunted plants in choking soil that will not drain or dry. I even added cactus/succulent soil @20% for drainage along with the perlite and pumice 20% to no avail. Pots of very expensive mud with stunted worthless plants. I don't get it. Now with only one good arm and so little time this season is a complete loss. Never happened before in 6 previous grows. Maybe I'll switch to a peat moss mix next year to create some air pockets in the mix and finally hopefully getting proper drainage. If only my plants grew like my busted up shoulder!
Personally, I think your pot size is part of the problem there.

Small plants don't need a ton of soil, and when you start out in small thinner bags, you get much better air contact, and drying capacity.
This is what I use, then I transplant into either 1 or 2 gallon cloth pots leaving the tree bags intact, and letting the roots grow right though it.

Bottom line, the quicker your media dries out, the quicker you can water it again with fresh nutes. Creates a bit more work, but in a very productive way.




Then into these:
https://www.amazon.com/Delxo-Biodeg...s=Nursery+Bags+seedling&qid=1626428783&sr=8-7
https://www.amazon.com/Delxo-20-Pac...rds=cloth+pots+1+gallon&qid=1626428821&sr=8-5
 
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