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Welcome to the Fungal, it gets worse here everyday - Fusarium Solani

Capulator

likes to smell trees.
Supporter
6,091
313
the lab that tested my plants said they couldn't distinguish between different types of fusarium without doing something called sequencing. i have asked them to do this, but it looks like it will take another couple of weeks at least. they implied that treatment strategies should be essentially equivalent regardless of which type of fusarium it is.



good question. i *think* it came from some clones i purchased and failed to adequately quarantine, but i can't really be positive about that. i can be fairly certain that it didn't come from the building itself (as you suggested for your situation). my operation is in the basement of a relatively new house (built 1996) and there were absolutely no signs of dampness or anything else (let alone having been used for growing) when i moved in. plus i was growing here for over five years without a problem before the fusarium showed up. i suppose it could possibly have come from my water supply but, again, i have been using the same unfiltered city water for the last 5 years without ever having had a problem before.

it would be nice to know with certainty where the fusarium came from, but i feel like if i can find an effective method of eradication (using fungicides or otherwise), this will be somewhat of a moot point. i mean, i would much rather have a way of dealing with it but not know where it was coming from than vice versa.



i haven't used either the t-22 trichoderma or the mycostop. my understanding is that both of these products are biological control strategies (i.e. - living organisms that feed on or otherwise suppress the bad organisms). biocontrols haven't really been a viable option for me since bleach and H2O2 (the only things keeping my plants alive) would just kill the biocontrols. however, if subdue (or another fungicide) continues to be effective in keeping the fusarium out of the roots, perhaps i can stop using the bleach/H2O2 and give one or more of these biocontrols a try. same story with beneficial bacteria.



just got new clones a couple days ago. i have distributed them among 3 (heavily cleaned and sterilized) independent systems, each with its own reservoir. i added subdue maxx (.5 ml/gal) to two of the systems and eagle-20EW (.5 ml/gal) to the third. i am also using a light dose (2 ml/gal) of H2O2 in all three systems but no bleach (i prefer to avoid the bleach unless necessary, especially with younger plants). everything is looking good so far; i will keep you updated.

-inuyasha
regardless of what others might say on this subject I'ts good to see you arent fucking around. war is war.
 
first, any updates?
hi BL, i am having success so far with new clones and i will post an update when i am more certain the fusarium has been eradicated. i intend to get lab tests done again soon.

Second, can either of you recommend a lab where a lobster from the Far North could send water or root samples for pathogen analysis? I've never done such a thing before.
i had my testing done at my local agricultural extension office. not sure that this is necessarily an option for everyone since, technically, extension office labs aren't supposed to test cannabis (due to USDA federal funding guidelines), but i figured it was worth a try and submitted a plant labeled as tomato and it worked out fine. you will need to take in (or maybe you could overnight mail it) a plant sample consisting of the roots and the base of the crown (the very bottom of the stem/trunk) so you will have to kill a plant to get the sample. just ask them for a "plant diagnostic analysis" with a "fungal/bacterial culture" -- it costs about $20 and they will call you with the results after a couple days. if the extension office is not an option or there isn't one close by, any lab with plant/water/soil diagnostics should do, just look for one nearby (or make sure you can overnight to them) since they will need a fairly fresh sample.

-inuyasha
 
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hi BL, i am having success so far with new clones and i will post an update when i am more certain the fusarium has been eradicated. i intend to get lab tests done again soon.

i had my testing done at my local agricultural extension office. not sure that this is necessarily an option for everyone since, technically, extension office labs aren't supposed to test cannabis (due to USDA federal funding guidelines), but i figured it was worth a try and submitted a plant labeled as tomato and it worked out fine. you will need to take in (or maybe you could overnight mail it) a plant sample consisting of the roots and the base of the crown (the very bottom of the stem/trunk) so you will have to kill a plant to get the sample. just ask them for a "plant diagnostic analysis" with a "fungal/bacterial culture" -- it costs about $20 and they will call you with the results after a couple days. if the extension office is not an option or there isn't one close by, any lab with plant/water/soil diagnostics should do, just look for one nearby (or make sure you can overnight to them) since they will need a fairly fresh sample.

-inuyasha
Hey, thanks much. I really do appreciate it. Silverhaze set me up with the name of a lab in Cali, and I've already sent them root and crown samples from the infected plants, along with a sample of my source water. I'll also report back here when I get word from them, and if I am fusarium-positive, I'd love to hear more about your control efforts!

Cheers,
BL
 
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Hey, just wanted to shout that I've been reading extensively about Subdue Maxx and RootShield, and they both sound as though they hold a great deal of promise for embattled growers like us!

And in case it was missed in Cap's post (not trying to poach you, Cap ;)), T-22 refers to the strain of fungus that will prey on the fusarium, and is sold commercially as RootShield. I mention only because I also spent a while searching for a product called "T22". Hope to check in with you all again soon!

Cheers,
BL
 
Greetings fellow farmers!

I'm one who does way more forum reading than posting, but I just have to chime in on this one, as silverhaze could have been describing my situation a few months ago.

I run top feed, dtw. Things always looked great in veg,, but a few weeks into flower and shit would start going south. It took like a year for me to figure out that I had root disease and then, only because I started a biobucket system. I preveg in the (then) infected dtw, then move them into the biobuckets. When it started going wrong in the biobuckets, I could easily see that the roots were very unhealthy.

I don't know the exact pathogens I was raising, but I'm pretty sure that I had several going, including fusarium, pythium, and brown slime algae, possibly others. I've had it all under control for several months now. Here are the steps I took to get here:

1. Got anal about blocking light in reservoirs, buckets, pipes, etc.

2. Added air in each bucket

3. Started using Heisenberg's tea from over at ICM. This had the greatest effect. Here's how I've been brewing it:

in each gallon of tea:

1 T black strap molasses
1 t Mycogrow soluble (from fungi.com)
1 t Companion biological fungicide (bacillus subtilus GB03)
1/2 handful of Ancient Forest Humus in a nylon stocking

add ingredients to desired volume of water and bubble vigorously for 24-48 hours.
add tea to reservoirs every 3-4 days, at 1 cup/ gallon to attack an existing problem, or at 1 cup/ 10 gallons for maintenance. Pouring full strength at base of each plant helps when battling an active problem.

4. Addition of a nonionic surfactant to the reservoir takes out microbes with a zoospore stage (pythium), but also messes with the colonization of the bennies, so I only used it until things were under control.

If you choose to go with a "live" system, don't use any sterilizers in your system (Zone, H2O2, bleach, etc.) as they will kill the bennies. I don't even scrub my systems any more. I treat them more like an aquarium. I just change out the majority of the solution every couple of weeks. Even between runs.

The other thing if going "live" is that you don't want to put anything "organic" in the system. No organic nutes, no Superthrive, no Liquid Karma, no enzymes. I only use "synthetic" nutes, tea, and fulvic acid. Most anything else will feed the pathogens and cause serious problems if they're present.

FWIW I just recently came across Capulator's work here and I'm very excited to give his packs a try in place of the Mycogrow next time I need to order. Much more concentrated, and cheaper too!

Anyway, I hope that helps.


Grow well,
B.B.
 
I got the same problem now and I definetely got it from commercial seeds of AK 47 I bought in a shop. Only those plants grown from seeds show the symptoms and spread it to all the others.

Try a complte new strain that is more resistant against fungi, ie. Double Fun from nomercy. Avoid chronic, it is very sensitive to fungis infections. Spray your walls and mix some antifungus chemical in the spary than paint your walls with antifungus paint.
 
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28
Greetings fellow farmers!

I'm one who does way more forum reading than posting, but I just have to chime in on this one, as silverhaze could have been describing my situation a few months ago.

I run top feed, dtw. Things always looked great in veg,, but a few weeks into flower and shit would start going south. It took like a year for me to figure out that I had root disease and then, only because I started a biobucket system. I preveg in the (then) infected dtw, then move them into the biobuckets. When it started going wrong in the biobuckets, I could easily see that the roots were very unhealthy.

I don't know the exact pathogens I was raising, but I'm pretty sure that I had several going, including fusarium, pythium, and brown slime algae, possibly others. I've had it all under control for several months now. Here are the steps I took to get here:

1. Got anal about blocking light in reservoirs, buckets, pipes, etc.

2. Added air in each bucket

3. Started using Heisenberg's tea from over at ICM. This had the greatest effect. Here's how I've been brewing it:

in each gallon of tea:

1 T black strap molasses
1 t Mycogrow soluble (from fungi.com)
1 t Companion biological fungicide (bacillus subtilus GB03)
1/2 handful of Ancient Forest Humus in a nylon stocking

add ingredients to desired volume of water and bubble vigorously for 24-48 hours.
add tea to reservoirs every 3-4 days, at 1 cup/ gallon to attack an existing problem, or at 1 cup/ 10 gallons for maintenance. Pouring full strength at base of each plant helps when battling an active problem.

4. Addition of a nonionic surfactant to the reservoir takes out microbes with a zoospore stage (pythium), but also messes with the colonization of the bennies, so I only used it until things were under control.

If you choose to go with a "live" system, don't use any sterilizers in your system (Zone, H2O2, bleach, etc.) as they will kill the bennies. I don't even scrub my systems any more. I treat them more like an aquarium. I just change out the majority of the solution every couple of weeks. Even between runs.

The other thing if going "live" is that you don't want to put anything "organic" in the system. No organic nutes, no Superthrive, no Liquid Karma, no enzymes. I only use "synthetic" nutes, tea, and fulvic acid. Most anything else will feed the pathogens and cause serious problems if they're present.

FWIW I just recently came across Capulator's work here and I'm very excited to give his packs a try in place of the Mycogrow next time I need to order. Much more concentrated, and cheaper too!

Anyway, I hope that helps.


Grow well,
B.B.

Hey BB,

Sorry for the late reply, been off for a while but thank a lot man. These are great points and will be very, very helpful to me.. Thank you! I have been using Cap's bennies and they're great. I am just poppin some beans now and about to give it another go with all the helpful info I've collected from the farmers. Thank you again for your clarity and attention, it is greatly appreciated. I will come back to you in a few weeks with my plan..

SH
 
179
28
I got the same problem now and I definetely got it from commercial seeds of AK 47 I bought in a shop. Only those plants grown from seeds show the symptoms and spread it to all the others.

Try a complte new strain that is more resistant against fungi, ie. Double Fun from nomercy. Avoid chronic, it is very sensitive to fungis infections. Spray your walls and mix some antifungus chemical in the spary than paint your walls with antifungus paint.
Hey Dutchman, thanks! I've been looking for a strain suggestion like this so thanks, again and I will absolutely try that strain. My walls are covered with Panda but I can and will spray every inch of the room before starting again. Will be coming up again soon and let you all know about my progress. Thanks so much!

SH

P.S. Sorry you're dealing with this shit too..
 
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18
hi BL, i am having success so far with new clones and i will post an update when i am more certain the fusarium has been eradicated. i intend to get lab tests done again soon.
-inuyasha
Thanks, my man. Just checking back in, and reporting on my status as well. Everything that helps one of us could help all of us, y'know? I haven't yet gotten complete results from the lab my samples went to, but the last I head was that the early cultures were growing out BOTH fusarium and pythium. :eek:

I'm not quite ready to completely replace all my gear, so we're going to see what a concentrated cleaning and mitigation effort can do to fight both of these at once. I honestly have little hope of completely eradicating these pathogens; rather, I hope that I can manage them well enough that they have discernible impact on health and yield.

The next round of clones will be ready soon, and as soon as they have a decent root structure established, I'm going to hit them with the following cocktail:

Dutch Master Zone (as a base)
Root Shield
Subdue Maxx (one dose in the veg pod, one dose in the main system)
Pythoff

Any comments on that? Is it pointless to use Root Shield if I'm sterilizing with Zone? Root Shield is based around the activity of Trichoderma, a predator fungus. Will all the anti-fungal agents render that moot? Capulator? If you're reading, I'd love your input.

Silver, I'd like to post a log to document the process of applying these solutions. Would you like me to do it in this thread, since so much info is already concentrated here, or should I start another?

Thanks as always to everyone for their mutual support!

Hugs,
BL
 
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28
Thanks, my man. Just checking back in, and reporting on my status as well. Everything that helps one of us could help all of us, y'know? I haven't yet gotten complete results from the lab my samples went to, but the last I head was that the early cultures were growing out BOTH fusarium and pythium. :eek:

I'm not quite ready to completely replace all my gear, so we're going to see what a concentrated cleaning and mitigation effort can do to fight both of these at once. I honestly have little hope of completely eradicating these pathogens; rather, I hope that I can manage them well enough that they have discernible impact on health and yield.

The next round of clones will be ready soon, and as soon as they have a decent root structure established, I'm going to hit them with the following cocktail:

Dutch Master Zone (as a base)
Root Shield
Subdue Maxx (one dose in the veg pod, one dose in the main system)
Pythoff

Any comments on that? Is it pointless to use Root Shield if I'm sterilizing with Zone? Root Shield is based around the activity of Trichoderma, a predator fungus. Will all the anti-fungal agents render that moot? Capulator? If you're reading, I'd love your input.

Silver, I'd like to post a log to document the process of applying these solutions. Would you like me to do it in this thread, since so much info is already concentrated here, or should I start another?

Thanks as always to everyone for their mutual support!

Hugs,
BL
Post it here bro. We're attracting a lot of new ideas, let's keep them rolling. I appreciate all your work on the subject my man.

SH
 
Hey Dutchman, thanks! I've been looking for a strain suggestion like this so thanks, again and I will absolutely try that strain. My walls are covered with Panda but I can and will spray every inch of the room before starting again. Will be coming up again soon and let you all know about my progress. Thanks so much!

SH

P.S. Sorry you're dealing with this shit too..

Yeah, but it also happened some years ago and it disappeared msyterically. Now it came definetely and only from commercial seeds! And that is the bummer becuase this fusarium strain is very vicious and spread like wildfire!!!!
I sometimes had the impression that some commercial seeds are not ok, but trojanic horses in different aspects. I never got the problem when I got clones from clandestine farmers.....

Kali Mist is also quite fungi resistant.

We should all check the databases for fungi resistant strains.
 
Thanks, my man. Just checking back in, and reporting on my status as well. Everything that helps one of us could help all of us, y'know? I haven't yet gotten complete results from the lab my samples went to, but the last I head was that the early cultures were growing out BOTH fusarium and pythium. :eek:

I'm not quite ready to completely replace all my gear, so we're going to see what a concentrated cleaning and mitigation effort can do to fight both of these at once. I honestly have little hope of completely eradicating these pathogens; rather, I hope that I can manage them well enough that they have discernible impact on health and yield.

The next round of clones will be ready soon, and as soon as they have a decent root structure established, I'm going to hit them with the following cocktail:

Dutch Master Zone (as a base)
Root Shield
Subdue Maxx (one dose in the veg pod, one dose in the main system)
Pythoff

Any comments on that? Is it pointless to use Root Shield if I'm sterilizing with Zone? Root Shield is based around the activity of Trichoderma, a predator fungus. Will all the anti-fungal agents render that moot? Capulator? If you're reading, I'd love your input.

Silver, I'd like to post a log to document the process of applying these solutions. Would you like me to do it in this thread, since so much info is already concentrated here, or should I start another?

Thanks as always to everyone for their mutual support!

Hugs,
BL
The zone will totally kill the bennies in Root Shield. Not sure what the Subdue is.

There's a distinct line in the sand here,... sterile on one side,and live on the other. You can't effectively combine the two. You need to choose one route or the other.


Grow well,
B.B.
 
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The zone will totally kill the bennies in Root Shield. Not sure what the Subdue is.

There's a distinct line in the sand here,... sterile on one side,and live on the other. You can't effectively combine the two. You need to choose one route or the other.


Grow well,
B.B.
Yeah, 'twas as I figured. Silly question, actually; I think everybody knows you can't have sterilization and bennies both. What was I smoking? ;) Thank you, though! The better question would be which strategy do I employ? FYI, Subdue Maxx is a food-safe fungicide, active against Fusarium and other pathogenic micros. My first instinct, since I'm already set on using an anti-fungal, is to just go all-in on sterilization. I believe Zone is essentially chloramines, and I think Pythoff is also based around some kind of chlorine derivative.

I'm open to counter-arguments, however. It's going to be a little while before the clones will be ready for the starter pod, so there's time to acquire different products for a different strategy, if need be. Thanks again B.B., and I'll update as appropriate.

Peace,
BL
 
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Yo Silver, and anyone else interested - this thread might be worth a look if you haven't seen it already:

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/hydro-fungicide-questions-lost-dizzle.22863/

Thoughts? Maybe my regimen will just be an early course of Subdue Maxx, followed by maintenance with Down Under H-F, since it's not supposed to be compatible with chlorine-based products. Lots of cats on that thread are saying it heavily outperforms chlorine and derivatives. Who knows, hm?
 

Capulator

likes to smell trees.
Supporter
6,091
313
once again, the rep for rootshield (t-22) was very confident in the subdue/t-22 combo.

I am working on getting t-22 in to my packs, but it's gonna be a while.
 
People, do not apply dangerous fungicides on the weed! :confused: It will remain a very long time in the plants and disrupts the human reproduction system. Also I doubt it will cure Fusarium really.
If you want you may use natural stuff like Trichoderma but I doubt it will help after infection.

My advice: disinfect all pots etct. with Dettol or else. desinfect the walls and paint them with fungicide paint. Use coco or hydr. USE A NEW STRAIN that is more fungus resistant. Avoid chronic or other fungus victims etc.

You can not do much more.

If your house is full of fungus I doubt you will raise a healthy crop there.
 
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once again, the rep for rootshield (t-22) was very confident in the subdue/t-22 combo.

I am working on getting t-22 in to my packs, but it's gonna be a while.
Thanks, Cap. Y'know, I think I'll give that a go, just because you're one of the Big Dogs. I reserve the right to bomb the hell out of them should it prove necessary, however. ;) Do you know if the rep had a dosing strategy for the Subdue? Particularly for RDWC? I'm envisioning just applying Subdue once to the rez during veg, and running T-22 as recommended. Correct?

People, do not apply dangerous fungicides on the weed! :confused: It will remain a very long time in the plants and disrupts the human reproduction system.

If your house is full of fungus I doubt you will raise a healthy crop there.
I appreciate the warning, and usually I share your disdain for pesticides. I absolutely do not want to endanger anyone that consumes my product. However, Subdue Maxx seems to be pretty safe. This article indicates that the fungicide degrades after 21 days:
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/subdue_maxx_receives_24c_special_local_needs_label_to_control_downy_mildew

...and here's the MSDS for Subdue, not too scary:
http://files.tlhort.com/msds_labels/4415-subdue_maxx_dec_09.pdf

I can't find the link now, but I also found a link to a page saying that metalaxyl (active component of Subdue) was NOT known to the state of California to cause cancer, illness, etc., which is surprising. If anyone has reason to believe that Subdue might be unsuitable for root application, please speak up. It *is* used for a number of edible crops.

Try this, boil your trim, cool the water and water your plants with the cannabis tea. I dont have links, I can't explain it. But it's the cure. Your going to need lots of green trim.
Haha, yeah? Hm. Problem is, I'm going to need to grow a big, healthy crop before I can get lots of green trim to boil. :p I'd probably need a few more details along with my green trim before I tried this...
 

Capulator

likes to smell trees.
Supporter
6,091
313
Ok Dude Im not a scientist, But this is how it works.

I found some info, a long time ago about Fusarium, and it being sprayed on cannabis fields by the US Government. I think there is a thread on the farm about it. This lead me to more research on the topic. The problem supposedly is that the cannabis plant has some type of natural defense against fusarium. If you research fusarium out side of cannabis, you will find it effects tomatoes and is a real BIG FUCKING PROBLEM in the tomato industry.

Scientist like cap and squigg, have been experimenting with using compost to battle the disease. Not really cap and Squigg but mother fuckers that are all super smart like them.

Anyways, from what I read many moons ago, the problem with what the feds were doing was that the fields they were spraying, had rotting cannabis plant material in them. It was thought that the cannabis plants rotting, compost was a natural defence against fusarium. Thats why there efforts to eradicate the cannabis plant with fusarium were in effective, in essence all they did was attack the tomato industry.

No one is really saying this is what happened, but if you find little snips and articles here and there the peaces kind of come together.
Man I was just reading somewhere about how plants communicate with each other through chemical signals sent through the the root zone as well as through the air. If a plant is being attacked, it will send a signal to alert the plants in the area. This alert will in turn cause the plants to exude certain foods that are known to attract specific bacteria, the same bacteria that fight off whatever infection is attacking the plant that is alerting the others.

Trippy shit that none of us really fully understand yet. Apparently mycorrhizae are also responsible for facilitating the communication through the underground network of roots.
 
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Man I was just reading somewhere about how plants communicate with each other through chemical signals sent through the the root zone as well as through the air. If a plant is being attacked, it will send a signal to alert the plants in the area. This alert will in turn cause the plants to exude certain foods that are known to attract specific bacteria, the same bacteria that fight off whatever infection is attacking the plant that is alerting the others.

Trippy shit that none of us really fully understand yet. Apparently mycorrhizae are also responsible for facilitating the communication through the underground network of roots.
Y'know, it seems a great many things in the microscopic world function this way. Not surprising, really, but amazing nonetheless. Check out this TED talk on that very subject:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bonnie_bassler_on_how_bacteria_communicate.html

But that's a bit off-topic. So the idea is that somehow, a tea brewed from cannabis material will contain a concentration of whatever factors make ganja more resistant to fusarium than some other plants? I would allow that it's possible, but I mean absolutely no offense when I say that I'd need to know quite a bit more before risking a crop with that method. For example, how would it apply to RDWC? In what ratio? For how long? At what concentration? Etc, etc, etc.
 

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