What does praying leaves mean? My plants are praying

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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My plants are praying all of a sudden, i haven’t watered them today because I gave them abit much yesterday but not too much.
With the info you provided my opinion is….

the stretch is due to the spectrum of light (red leaning 3500k or lower)

internide spacing is also largely affected by the genetics.

in short there are no cheap quick fixes to that issue other than running a negative diff temperature and that will cost you more growth than the solution provides at this stage of growth.

In regards to question of “praying”….

This is an early form of light stress (not necessarily bad) but you are walking a fine line of harming your plants for an extremely minimal chance of any measurable gains.

my suggestion is…..

forget about the stretch for now ( I can go more into detail about addressing it for future grows if you like)

reduce the light intensity until you have flat leaves with a slight V shape to the leaves on the top 1-3 nodes as you grow.

when it comes to light tolerance of plants it’s genetic and grow specific. there are to many limiting factors to list in regards to light tolerance so reading the plants is your best option. Numbers are a good place to start (I can give you some if you like) but always read the plants
 
N1ghtL1ght

N1ghtL1ght

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600 watts is the max power, I have been using it at 250 watts
then you are almost using a monochromatic lightsource

Spektrum Verkmmerung

with HPS blue light being too low already at the full setting.
that's no bueno for veg because blue is needed for efficient photochemistry and promoting root growth
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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then you are almost using a monochromatic lightsource

View attachment 1234060
with HPS blue light being too low already at the full setting.
that's no bueno for veg because blue is needed for efficient photochemistry and promoting root growth
I like you already sir. This is absolutely the cause of stretch and may well be the spectrum limitation causing stress as they could handle this intensity or more if the photons where spread over more spectrums and not so concentrated in the red spectrum. This is because they use different receptors for different spectrums
 
N1ghtL1ght

N1ghtL1ght

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Nah , they are reaching for more light , mag toxicity will also make your leaves stand up
Hmmm well I've seen a growreport where someone accidentally fed 10x the amount of epsom salt and the plants did actually droop and develop darkgreen leaves with yellow burns at the outer ridges and tips...
 
Aqua Man

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Hmmm well I've seen a growreport where someone accidentally fed 10x the amount of epsom salt and the plants did actually droop and develop darkgreen leaves with yellow burns at the outer ridges and tips...
Yes the Mg in high ratios to other nutrients will severely affect uptake of other nutrients. Such in that case it sounds like it inhibited potassium and thus a potassium deficiency and the typical scorching along the leaf edges would be absolutely expected.

If you or anyone else is interested in more on that mulders chart is a great place to start
 
Moshmen

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😁🤷‍♂️

I go by the basis of proof in the pudding and observe innovators and persons who touch thousands of plants and can afford to experiment and experience. If you guys haven't noticed professional cultivation facilities all have praying leaves. If you actually pay close attention some of these guys are getting 8foot plants with a 18 day veg time. Plants are healthy as hell and try the product you be the judge.
You may right we will have to agree to disagree! Lol and I personally have no use for large commercial crops just my preference.

I’m gonna go with @freezeland2 you want flat solar panels - anything else there’s an issue
 
KushNAshn

KushNAshn

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You may right we will have to agree to disagree! Lol and I personally have no use for large commercial crops just my preference. I’m gonna go with @freezeland2 you want flat solar panels - anything else there’s an issue
Lol well commercial product of course is usually a whole different ballpark between craft or micro grows. I follow quite a few craft cultivators, but in terms of knowledge and experience it's a numbers game. How many experiments and experience one can gain. I only speak from my personal experiences leaf praying has been a sign of health returning if dealing with pest presence.

Also from Canada's 2022 gov approved pesticide documents there is no known biological or chemical control for the rice root aphid.

Spent a whole year dealing with these having the worst of luck on my first run. About 15 organic/ chemical pesticides deep and ONLY 2-3 really knocked them down consistently without them shedding their armor. They molt their ARMOR 4X.

As soon the pest issue started reducing the leaves start praying again. They look extremely droopy overwatered when pest pressure is high.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Like in most cases there is no one definitive answer to a question regarding cannabis.

praying per se can be for more than one reason. But in this specific case I personally feel it’s due to light intensity. Which is a whole can of worms in itself, such as almost all photons being in the red spectrum. In a more balanced spectral source you could most likely increase the intensity and yet not see this effect.

balance is key to everything. No different than nutrients in the fact that ratios are far more important than concentration although both are major factors
 
Moshmen

Moshmen

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Lol well commercial product of course is usually a whole different ballpark between craft or micro grows. I follow quite a few craft cultivators, but in terms of knowledge and experience it's a numbers game. How many experiments and experience one can gain. I only speak from my personal experiences leaf praying has been a sign of health returning if dealing with pest presence.

Also from Canada's 2022 gov approved pesticide documents there is no known biological or chemical control for the rice root aphid.

Spent a whole year dealing with these having the worst of luck on my first run. About 15 organic/ chemical pesticides deep and ONLY 2-3 really knocked them down consistently without them shedding their armor. They molt their ARMOR 4X.

As soon the pest issue started reducing the leaves start praying again. They look extremely droopy overwatered when pest pressure is high.
Adding pest is another issue - root amphids are bad I wish them in no one
 
Clyde4210

Clyde4210

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Yes the Mg in high ratios to other nutrients will severely affect uptake of other nutrients. Such in that case it sounds like it inhibited potassium and thus a potassium deficiency and the typical scorching along the leaf edges would be absolutely expected.

If you or anyone else is interested in more on that mulders chart is a great place to start
I'm interested and thanks. I've been wondering about this and believe I need it. I've noticed hydro plants can drink as you pour. That tells me it's missing something and leaching it out as it's poured.
 
N1ghtL1ght

N1ghtL1ght

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My impression from simple observation is, is that they grow better when they pray. Though under strong lights the tops may stop praying towards the end of the light-cycle. The interception of light seems to be better this way because lower shoots get better access to direct strong light as opposed to be sitting in the shade under the upper big fans.
Increases growth may result in greater internal pressure from cell elongation & division. You see the effect also on droopy plants that get swiftched to 12/12 and enter the flowering stretch.
When things are off, like no good nutritient solution in pot (imbalance, lockout), too high EC or otherwise salt stress from Na or Cl, lack of roor aeration/ waterstress, too cold ambient temps, or too harsh irradiance increase... this all can lead to droopy plants which looks different from wilting droopiness or chronic overwatering.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I'm interested and thanks. I've been wondering about this and believe I need it. I've noticed hydro plants can drink as you pour. That tells me it's missing something and leaching it out as it's poured.
Yes temp, ph and mixing order are key in hydro. Take silica in the form of potassium silicate for eg. it will drastically raise ph well over 9 and therefore is added first always and should be allowed to mix at that ph for 15-30 min before being ph adjusted to 6-6.5 BEFORE adding any other nutrients or the it will cause precipitation of some nutrients. That’s probably the most common mistake ppl make.

In that case if you can switch to a more neutral ph form like silicone dioxide (flowable) which does not require that step and is more bioavailable to the plants. The benefit to potassium silicate is that it helps act as a buffer to improve stability of PH when using RO or low ppm source water.
I’ll link that article I wrote in the next post
 
H

hawkman

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when lighting is too far away two things happen -- seedlings tend to grow tall and leaves point up-ward
 
Edinburgh

Edinburgh

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They look fine, do not feed yet, water around your seedlings till they can take a proper watering.
 

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